[Tigre]

I think the most important lesson to be learned from this thread is:

Always look for a couple of IOIs before you go for the number close.

[scotian]

Badwolf, if you do decide to move to Alberta and work in the oil patch, leave the magic cards at home bro!

[Jaydublin]

Making friends can be tough in the USA and I assume Canada. I work contracts and travel around and have found that each time I am in a new city I really struggle to make friends. Sometimes I struggle for a very long time (year+)to make any decent friends. A couple of times I have met 1 friendly person would bring me in their loop. I wil admit though that I am not the best at making friends and never have been.

I came to Mexico to work about a year ago and I cant make enough friends. People are always inviting me to do shit. They wont allow you to go eat alone. They are just that friendly.

[El Chinito loco]

The sad fact of the matter is in the anglosphere the idea of being a "countryman" has little meaning to it. Your average citizen of these english speaking countries are split hard across racial, religious, occupation, subculture, and even neighborhood boundaries sometimes. There is strong social and political incentives to keep everyone segregated in their appropriate designated living spaces. It's easier to micromanage people's lives this way. Individualism is a phony concept when everyone assimilates into these social bubbles and uses it as a security blanket.

When you try to cross over and break script people get agitated. That's just how it is, and why if you are able to it's better to leave this type of toxic social environment.

[Saladin]

I think guys in Toronto can be pretty unfriendly(especially hipsters and douchebags).

The guys who are friendly are those who grew up in smaller towns.

Also gay guys are pretty cool and friendly. I don't get the hate for gay guys, they are usually fun guys who are outgoing and have hot friends. Lesbians can be man hating bitches sometimes though.....

[Deluge]

@TravelerKai, it wasn't disingenuous at all. Your car club analogy isn't relevant, because you know the guys in the club already, while BadWolf is a total stranger. Is this card game really so rare that people will instantly want to give out their number and hangout with some random dude after 10 seconds into a conversation? Sounds like this guy already has people to play with. No doubt there are internet communities for this card game to find players too. I don't understand how some guys on RVF of all places don't see how ridiculous this all is.

[BadWolf]

Quote:

Is this card game really so rare that people will instantly want to give out their number and hangout with some random dude after 10 seconds into a conversation?

Yes, it really is that rare and harder still to find players your own age.. I'm not about to approach some 15 year old kid to play with but someone my own age should not have acted that way. Encountering it in the 'wild' is about as rare as seeing someone with a Settlers of Catan bumper sticker. It's not a passive hobby either, its something you need to continually invest in, the most functional deck for public play will run you nearly $50 bucks but I've seen quite a few serious players where each card ranges from $20 to $100 dollars Canadian... not to mention the guys I use to hang around with who dropped thousands of dollars every couple of months on ordering stuff off ebay.

I wonder how this would have been interpreted had my wife asked him the same thing. She is fairly pretty and is quite the power player now too, she runs Commander Krenko solid Red if anyone is wondering.

http://magic.wizards.com/

All of my friends play, most of them are converts and the players that I found on my own were amazed that I even knew about the game, let alone asked them about it. Initially my brother taught me and I couldn't believe that I was playing a game that I thought only nerds in high-school played. Turns out that it's actually a great ice breaker and a solid way to keep a group together. My brother taught his girlfriend and when we all get into the same room, cards fly. Otherwise I would never have had anything in common with his girlfriend and no reason to speak to her... its a great device for crossing the divide.

I've written in previous threads how we would use it to network teachers together and share jobs in Guangzhou... sort of like poker except without the betting. If you like computer programming or math, you'll love magic. You design your own decks and there is nothing quite as cool as getting together with friends and buying new stuff or perusing through Rare card binders to find that one game changer. Anyone that turns down the opportunity to try the game is really doing themselves a disservice. Any guy that would actively check out magic cards at work and state that they have a group without sharing entry, is extremely rare... most groups are actively recruiting new members and its the easiest way to meet other guys in the city. My friend carries 2 or 3 decks with him wherever he goes. In China I had a regular play group of about... 40 or so people and I would always approach guys on the street (foreigners) with an offer to game or teach them if they didn't know. Never had anyone turn me down before, even if they weren't interested, most would show up just to meet other people. You can never have enough people, the more you know, the better the game gets so its quite rare to have a hostile player (outside the game). Whereas a game like Catan requires nearly an hour of setup time, magic can be played in 10 minutes on any sized table top.

Card games are a wicked way of breaking the ice, I highly recommend everyone in the forum invest in at least one. UNO and Monopoly Deal are two that addict women from the get go. I've played UNO in a crowded nightclub with a table full of beautiful Chinese women, it never fails to garner attention and allows you to drop nuclear game on your target. The Card game is a social bonding device and a life changer, it allows you to make friends at lightning speed. The best way to make friends is to find something you share an interest in and work on it together... maybe that interest is building a house, fixing a motor or completing a puzzle but the way to feel some sort of bond or connection to another is by completing something together that requires WORK and is mutually satisfying.

That said, the idea behind magic is that each deck is something you've personally put together, almost a show of your intelligence and creativity. You will get respect just from putting a deck together and its interesting to discuss your tactics with others. It's a game people will respect you simply for playing and confer a level of intellect that isn't given to others. You need to have half a brain to play this game and you need to be REALLY smart to put together a winning deck. Usually you get automatic respect from other guys just for playing.

Scotian, I'm meeting a couple of friends out there... and I'm quite sure we can make a decent bit of money off of it if what I hear about the tar sands is correct then we'll have people clamoring for it. Magic is more addictive than coke, women and porn together. Lot of military guys like to play so I imagine tar sands types aren't far off..

[Patriarch]

My problem with this thread is that some people think since only one social interaction was cited, BadWolf's point is invalid. Does anyone really think that it is easy to strike up and maintain an interesting conversation with, let alone befriend, a Westerner? Everyone is in their little social media/video game/porn addiction bubble. I've had more fulfilling conversations here in 'Nam with people who can only speak three words of English.

I'll give my own examples of our social retardation.

For two months before I left home, I was taking my brother to the gym with me to help him get in shape for football. This is the most he has left the house since the school year ended. Over the next few weeks, I notice him:
1. Wedge himself between a guy and the dumbbell rack to put his weights back because he didn't want to ask the guy to move because "he shouldn't be standing so close to the rack"
2. I tell him to grab an empty bench before someone else does. He's walking over to it, a guy asks him if he is getting on it, and he says "no no, I'm not" then comes back to me and says someone else took it.
3. Refuse to ask the front desk for a pen, so he couldn't record his weights.

This will only get worse. My brother used to be incredibly outgoing. As a little kid, he would strike up conversations with strangers while we were out. I see it with my friends, too. One bitches about work like a woman, and is actively hostile to his customers. Dude, you work in the service industry. There is a general malaise, a mental illness, permeating through our culture. I completely understand where you are coming from.

[pitt]

OP are you for real?Why would he give you his number?

First of all, you didn't even build any intimacy. The fact of you being a fan of his favourite basketball team doesn't mean that you qualify to hang out with him. I think any sensible person would have acted the same way, unless he was desperate to make a new friend then the outcome could have been different.

The majority of people don't want to be friends with just anybody. Just last night a guy that gave me a ride (I paid for it) that was friends with a girl that I am now banging, asked me for my number and that we should hang out some time. I am thinking what the f, I barely know you, why would I be friends with you? If I don't see any signs that qualify you as being my future friend, I don't give you my number, simple.

[EuroSlumming]

Badwolf I can relate to this. I'm in a new town and looking to make some friends.

I was in the park the other day and I saw this guy kicking a ball around.
I went up to him and said, hey you like to play football?
He looked up and said yeah I guess.
I said cool why don't you give me your number and we can get a game some time.
He backed up a step and said what are you a faggot? Get the hell outta here, I'm not into that.

I guess some people are just not friendly, but maybe it was just this guy, I shouldn't generalise.

[TigerMandingo]

I've shared the OP's experiences. I live in Montreal and all my male friends are foreigners (mostly French). I hit it off with those dudes from the get-go and there was never any subconscious BS about one of us being gay. And yes, we shared phone numbers from the beginning. Local Canadians don't really differ all that much from Americans, they tend to be cold and distant. The friendliness is superficial.

[Constitution45]

(08-15-2014 09:47 AM)BadWolf Wrote:  

I haven't been home in awhile but it seems like things here just got really unfriendly and people have become very distant... maybe its just me. I am walking in the mall and I see this employee checking out magic cards on his computer. I walk over and say

me: "You're a magic fan eh?"

him: "Yeah I'm just looking though"

me: "That's cool man I also play, why don't you give me your phone number and we'll get together"(In china this results in immediate friendship, I meet tons of people this way)

him: looks at me disgusted "No... I don't give my phone number out".

me: "really? I mean, you don't play or what?"

him: "No, I play.... but I have friends to play with"

me: "so you don't want to get together and pla-"

him: "NO"

me: "...."

I was so shocked, I actually didn't say anything, I was just like "WTF is going on here?". I've never had a GUY let alone a fellow 'nerd' turn me down for an offer of friendship especially based around hobbies... It's been really bugging me all day, what the hell is wrong with people here. I felt like saying, fuck you buddy, I have a hot wife (who also plays btw), a good job, a ton of friends and I'm part of a awesome wider community with links to jobs and various opportunities AROUND THE WORLD... I've played in championships in China with some of the world's best players.... what fvcking idiot voluntarily shuts himself out of opportunities...

The thing is this wouldn't bug me so much if I hadn't noticed the cold reception I've been getting from people since I got home. I'm not sure if I changed or if people did...

I don't even know what to follow this post with... I can see it would be very easy to become depressed with the sheer isolation you feel here, people are just not friendly and not open to meeting others outside of school... Christ if someone were to ask me if I'd like to play or get together the answer would be a resounding YES.

So what is it that people do here to meet other people? Or do they just not...

(for the guys that have emailed about it, I apologize I've been in and out of the hospital the last 2 weeks.)

Don't focus on it too much man. I went through the same withdrawal symptoms when I came back from the other world. If you focus on it too much, then it just harms you in the long run.

People are atomistic, let them dwell in their own problems, don't let them infect you !

[TheSlayer]

(08-18-2014 08:00 AM)pitt Wrote:  

The fact of you being a fan of his favourite basketball team doesn't mean that you qualify to hang out with him.

Magic in OP doesn't refer to Orlando Magic .

[dodol]

I am a bit like this too. Being a true, non-confrontational American, I probably would have given you my number but ignored any of your attempts to contact me.

To reflect on this though, in staying in hostels and hanging out with random people, there are many times that I had fun hanging out with people that I didn't expect to be fun or see any indication at the beginning that we would be suitable as friends.

That said, there's a difference between that and going through the effort to meet up with some random guy that might not be fun.

[Jaydublin]

(08-18-2014 02:51 AM)Saladin Wrote:  

Also gay guys are pretty cool and friendly. I don't get the hate for gay guys, they are usually fun guys who are outgoing and have hot friends. Lesbians can be man hating bitches sometimes though.....

They are friendly because they want to fuck you, just waiting for the shot... This is like when girls have guy friends and they think the guy just wants friendship.

[BadWolf]

Situation #2.

Just happened.

At chapters looking in the movie section (Star Wars books), employee is walking past me and makes a comment about his favorite book being this book of SITH. I inquired as to why and we got into a discussion about Sith vs Jedi... then the movies, then the games... in total I sat there about 45 minutes discussing it. I then asked if he liked video games to which he replied he was a HUGE fan. I have a game for the cube called Rebel Strike (A coop STAR WARS flight sim) so I say to him:

"Hey man I've really enjoyed talking to you, would you like to exchange emails and we can play some games or continue our discussion about Star Wars/Trek later."

Hands raised in a 'surrender position'

Him: "No sorry, No No my wife doesn't allow me to give it out"

I said "You know, you're the second guy to say something like this, I ain't gay, I have a wife too, I just thought you might want to be friends... do I scare you?"

him: "No I just don't give out my email, really... my wife..."

me: "Isn't that strange do you think its just weird for our culture to do this? I always make friends this way in China and Mexico."

Him: "Yeah... you know I never really thought about it, I guess..."

so I expect him to run away or something... he stands there and then starts talking again about star wars..

I'm sitting there like WHAT THE FUCK!?!?! Getting uncomfortable, I said "uh listen I'm sure you got stuff to do your thermal detonator is going off 'his beeper was going off'... so as I was saying..."

Him: (Turns it off) He smiles and says: "No I have time they're fine, I'm the manager."

Me: (weirded out and interrupting his Star Wars story) "Uh so in China we usually share emails or whatever on skype to make friends, I have to go so are you sure you don't want to talk later?"

Him: "No I'm sure...."

He shook my hand [limp wristed] and I walked away AGAIN completely blown away. I wish there was a gif for the Death Star exploding, I would put it under here... I feel like that guy with the mind exploding pic.

Canadians explain this to me, there is something wrong with this society, this CAN'T be normal. I am an hour out of Toronto in a Univ town.

To the guys who have PM'd me, I think we should get together in TO, like a big meetup because I don't see myself having much luck making connections in the general population and I must be doing something wrong. I spoke to my local friends and they are as puzzled as I am but again they are introverts and have never attempted to bridge the gap in public. Despite these setbacks, I'm not changing my game, if I can meet even one person.... To me this is natural not forced, the interaction was initiated by HIM.

[BadWolf]

Now here's the kicker, when I am on the dancefloor doing my thing, people come up and try and actively shake my hand, women grab my ass and I always walk away with emails and phone numbers from both sexes. Do I have to demonstrate higher value in Canada for people to give out contact information? This is generally when I am ignoring people. I will walk on to the middle of an empty dance floor and just go... within 10 to 20 minutes, people are walking up and trying to initiate conversations or learn dance moves and women are grinding their ass or 'accidentally' bumping into me and sometimes the DJ even gives me some props (if he's smart). This is ON A COMPLETELY EMPTY DANCEFLOOR... in one of Ontario's biggest nightclubs.

The last time I got crazy amounts of numbers I was dressed in fun fur, rave gear, balloons and LEDs at a costume contest at a nightclub. [4 years ago]. The nightclub was located one city over in a Univ town.

So what is it that motivates people to take a risk of walking out into a 'social danger zone' under scrutiny of nightclub eyes, yet during 'day game' they pull away?!?!?!

In China/Mexico/Brazil/Japan/Thailand my nightclub game worked 100x as well and the day game was flawless with both locals and expats. I have more break dance friends that I've met abroad where I will just walk up to them in the middle of their show and be able to get contact info. Of course I add to the show a bit but still... these are from threatening social venues... a book store for christsakes is the least threatening place on Earth, there is literally no external pressure.

Anyway, if anyone wants to learn how to dance and is in the Toronto area, let me know. I can't do any of the really great stuff anymore due to my accident in China but I am happy to teach others. That's what networking is about, sharing resources and skills right... eh.... anyway...whatever

If anyone is interested in meeting up in Toronto I am open. (to the guys who have replied: as soon as I'm home from Calgary at the end of the month, I'll make an effort to come in).

[RawGod]

When I was in uni I met a few male friends from seeing them wear band T-shirts I liked and in one case some guy carrying a Vampire the Masquerade book. Dudes also occasionally "opened" me due to some book I was reading in public. Totally normal back then. I think culture has changed, if you have niche interests you get your interaction with others online. It's not a good thing, I really think we have lost a lot. I'm here on this forum but I'd rather be meeting some friends in a pub right now.

[BadWolf]

One more thing before I go. I've just been informed by my wife that my magic group in China is no longer meeting and nearly all have decided to return home. I got an email from one of the guys I played with and he says the other members aren't returning his emails. I thought I had done a pretty good job linking people together.... so need to explain that one too...I guess I use to sort of organize things and make sure everyone was having a good time and felt included but I figured someone would pickup the slack. I mean they used to get together quite a bit but it seems the group has splintered off into its own 'cliques'.

I'm just dumbfounded, what the hell... do introverts just not see the value in maintaining relationships or maybe I'm just crazy. Half of all my job opportunities came from my Magic group... extra work, contacts, visa stuff... and most of all companionship and camaraderie through the hard times, it was all so incredibly valuable in China, why let that die?



RawGod: Agreed but online is still the realm of fantasy [in my mind anyway]. I mean to gain any true momentum we need to take the online into the real world or else we will always be a bunch of disconnected guys floating around in cyberspace. From the few people I speak to on skype that I've met off the forum, I've improved the opportunities in my life 10 fold... I mean just from meeting up with VP in China for a pizza, I have an opportunity in the oil fields where there was none before, I also really enjoyed ranting about local women with him . Today I spoke to Kai for nearly 3 hours over skype and its too bad he's not closer, I have a feeling we would end up wasting a lot of time on gaming and related. I expect the same work and play opportunity to blossom from more forum relationships as well..

I see good things in the future and I refuse to accept the creepy/gay dynamic. My life is taken care of in regards to women so I'm not at their mercy and feel that I should operate from this state of mind. I think Western women are partly to blame for men feeling uncomfortable with each other.

I feel there is a lot of value in making connections with like minded people even if it means violating social conventions. If we are going to gain the upper-hand in the West, we've got to take the fight offline, we've got to get organized and we've got to create a real life support network. We have the people, the solutions and the resources to change, the only thing left is to connect the dots. Does that make sense?

If you are listening to this, you are the resistance.
- John Connor (Terminator)

[Vacancier Permanent]

Don't know if this is anecdotical or if there is anything more to it, but I've lived in Boretown for over 17 years and in that time frame, I can't count on one hand the number of Canadian friends. All my friends have been foreigners: Brasilians, Latinos, Russians, Japanese, Pinoys, Chinese, Arabs, Blacks from Africa, Blacks from the Caribbeans, French, Europeans, Indians, Pakis, Lebanese, Moroccans, Algerians, Germans, Tunisians, Egyptians, Balkans etc, but I can't recall having one single white Canadian friend in almost 2 decades of living in Toronto. I just can't recall any!

That's just mind blowing!

Anyone else has experienced the same?

[Laner]

Complete sense.

In the past we had calling cards. They would be dropped off to a persons home or business.

Then business cards. They would mean a solid contact, one that could be relied upon to be part of a mans network.

Now we have business cards that just just a means of feeling like we are networking.

I make a note of emailing people who give me their business cards, within three days. Response rate? 1:10.

Maybe I should wait 3.7 days? Keep all my emails in lower case sans punctuation and ask no questions and leave a mysterious vibe in order to hook my target.

Fuck that. If a man has been told by his wife that he is not allowed to trade email with another man, this guy is on borrowed time before I toss him off a bridge anyway.

Sounds like you are better off without these personalities in your life.

[Sojourn]

I feel exactly the same, never had a genuine "Canadian" friend living in the greater Toronto area, but then again it's a land of immigrants here, myself escaping with family from the then FSU when I was less then 2.

[StrikeBack]

Quote:

I think Western women are partly to blame for men feeling uncomfortable with each other

You can blame gay acceptance for that.

Before gay acceptance, if you're friendly with another man, or affectionate towards your male friend, you're just being a friendly warm guy.

Now they think there is a possibility of you wanting to get into their pants.

[rudebwoy]

VP - I hear what you are saying brother, but Toronto is generally a city of different "tribes". People tend to gravitate towards their own group,sure we are a very multicultural city but it is not a true melting pot.
I have "friends" from all backgrounds, ultimately my closest friends are from my race and background. I party with two cats, one who is Indian-Spanish and a white Canadian (Nordic) and girls will look at us and ask how we know each other.

The OP talks about how friendly people are in other places, is it a case of you being a westerner and they are after something from you. The joke is when you go to the DR and someone greets you as their friend, it translate to they are about to screw you over.

[HankRearden]

(08-18-2014 11:19 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

Don't know if this is anecdotical or if there is anything more to it, but I've lived in Boretown for over 17 years and in that time frame, I can't count on one hand the number of Canadian friends. All my friends have been foreigners: Brasilians, Latinos, Russians, Japanese, Pinoys, Chinese, Arabs, Blacks from Africa, Blacks from the Caribbeans, French, Europeans, Indians, Pakis, Lebanese, Moroccans, Algerians, Germans, Tunisians, Egyptians, Balkans etc, but I can't recall having one single white Canadian friend in almost 2 decades of living in Toronto. I just can't recall any!

That's just mind blowing!

Anyone else has experienced the same?

Not at all. Nearly all of my friends are white, Christian males, with a handful of Indians, Jews, and Asians thrown in for good measure. Probably 95% of my friends are Canadian born.

That being said, it was probably more of a product of the schools I went to more than anything else.