[colblionel]

Ahhh Day Game I have some thoughts about this

Back when I was 19-21 I used to Daygame with a buddy I met through a pick up forum.

We would literary drive 30min to the mall and spend hours walking around going DIRECT on chicks.

Got lots of numbers went on dates but no lays to be honest.

Had to stop because Day game is too time consuming and had to focus on finishing school.

I haven’t Day gamed in a couple of years and my approach anxiety is back with a vengeance.

I do eventually want to get back into Day game so here are my thoughts:

If you’re new to day game and want to start get a WINGMAN who’s in the same situation as you.

Block off Saturday and Sunday and designated days that YOU BOTH GO to the mall to do approaches. Set a goal of number of approaches you want to do. This is what me and my buddy did.

In fact I’m sure there’s enough people on this forum living in similar cities that you could start a day game meet up thread where 2 guys get together on the weekends to hit on chicks at the mall.

Doing this for a couple of months will help you CONTROL your approach anxiety. Note that I said control and not eliminate. The reality is that approach anxiety doesn’t really go away you just learn to manage it better.

You train your brain to realize that walking up to a chick you dont know during the day when the SUN is out and hitting on her will not get you killed.

You’re still going to have negative thoughts and emotions in your head but do your best to reference all the good interactions you’ve had and just do it.

The point is that you want to be doing at least a few approaches a week. If you slack off for a couple of months or years like I did your approach anxiety comes back in a cripppling manner and you have to start from square zero.

Once you get comfortable approaching Integrate Day game into your daily lifestyle. For guys that work a 9-5 and have to be in office. During your lunch break walk around on the street or hop into a nearby Whole Foods and do some approaches. If you’re at the gym and see a chick you want to talk to approach.

Day game is great when you can integrate into your life, but for most ppl to get comfortable at day game they have to block off time to do it.

NOW FOR SOME REAL TALK

Number 1 factor to day game success will be your looks AKA how attractive you are.

Given the nature of cold approach the only thing the chick has to make a decision on whether she likes you or not is how attractive you are and whether she’s sexually available.

You can be the most confident guy in the world but if you dont meet her looks threshold shes not sleeping with you.

Just like you can be the most attractive guy but if she’s just not sexually available you’re not smashing either.

Please don’t tell me a story about how you know an ugly guy who’s killing it in day game and banging hotties. That’s anecdotal evidence and doesn’t disprove the general rule of being attractive.

The take away is that you should be brutally honest of how attractive you are if you’re going to do Day game because it will determine the QUALITY of girls you can get.

Why is this important? Because even chicks that are UGLIER than you can bang average to somewhat attractive guys. So imagine what look standards average to cute to hot girls must have. Hope this makes sense.

So be honest with your self on how attractive you are. Look at the quality of chicks you have banged to see where you stand. Also ask yourself When most girls meet you do they call u hot and how attractive are these girls that call you hot.

I probably wouldn’t even recommend Day game if you’re short due to how obsessed chicks are with height.

I’m no supermodel myself I’m a 5’10 average looking minority who’s in shape. Girls can tell I workout even with my shirt on.

Once you know where you stand on the looks scale go out and target girls at your level or lower. Preferably you would want to target girls less good looking than you are. After all this is how hot guys get laid a lot. They target average looking chicks.

The mistake I made when I first started day gaming which I assume most ppl did is they only went after hot chicks. I’m not saying don’t approach hot chicks but understand what your odds are. Every once in awhile you’ll get lucky and smash a hotty but statistically speaking you should go after chicks a little bit below you in looks.

All in all this is a numbers game where if you’re willing to lower your standards and talk to enough girls you will get laid. Though I’ve never gotten laid off of day game I feel as though if I had kept at it I would’ve gotten lucky just like how I’ve gotten lucky at night game by showing up most nights taking to chicks and eventually one just fell in my lap through luck.

[bootyhuntah]

As a contrarian - and day game enthusiast - I'd posit that day game actually goes hand-in-hand with social circle development and growth, if managed properly.

I think the real value of day game is that by engaging in it, you inherently show a great deal of value by having the courage to socialize with strangers and ultimately facilitating a new social connect - and thereby, growing your social circle. Whether this happens during the daytime or nighttime is moot, the point is that by being social in public with everyone in your orbit (and particularly girls you want to bang), the end result will be improvement and growth of your social circle, with time and persistence.

How does a social circle come together exactly? Building a social circle is really nothing more than social networking with people in your daily life who may or may not be "social facilitators/connectors." It's important to really be social with everyone and not only just those you want to bang, because you never know when you'll meet someone who'll be able to contribute vastly to your social circle and grow your network by introducing your to their circles and adding value to your life overall. That's the real value of day game in my opinion.

The guys who are in it for purely the game results - I have no problem with because I've been there, done that - and still do from time to time. But to say that it's not a valuable tool in growing your social circle is blasphemy as far as I'm concerned.

[Skank_Hunt]

@colblionel -- There's being "not tall" e.g. 5'7-5'10 and then there is being what I'd say is short e.g. 5'6 and below. It's important to have realistic expectations but it's a bit defeatist especially in the case of, say, a good looking guy who is 5'9, to say that he cannot get girls because he is not tall enough. Height is one factor, but just one. As long as I'm taller than the girl it seems to be enough.

Looks (same debate over again). Yes they matter especially in cold approach where the girl has little information about you except your looks and your vibe on your initial approach. If you have an absolute poon dust dirt bag vibe as a result of great confidence in daygame from real results (this is impossible to fake), then your vibe will often compensate for any deficit in looks e.g. you can be very average but as long as you're not ugly you stand a chance. Improving looks with clothing and style is an obvious one: if your face is not naturally attractive, you can still make the "image" of you attractive with style, clothing, grooming and accessories. If you look decent, chances are most hot girls have fucked uglier guys than you. Definitely when you exit the West.

And that's the other thing about looks: in the West it seems to matter a lot more. In Poland, unless I am completely deluded and got it wrong, the average standard of a guy's looks and style was much, much, much lower than in the West, so I got eyefucked a lot more and my approaches were just more successful with IOIs even as I opened indirect. If you're "bad looking" according to USA male model standards, in EE there are skinheads and other types of guys who look "tough" who are seen as physically attractive. I even had guys tell me that in Poland they "dress down" so that they don't look too good, because girls either get intimidated or they label you as a good looking player and they don't trust you etc. My best approaches in Poland were done when I was dressed in converse shoes, jeans, cardigan, that's it. When I upped the "style" and added a few more "bad boy" elements that would have got me better results stateside, a lot of girls were scared of me or they started asking more questions like why I am there, how long I am there, why did I approach them etc.

About these "hot" girls. I've always said it: there are two types of attractive girls "hot/sexy" or "pretty/beautiful". There can be some elements of both in girls but generally the "hot/sexy" girls are older e.g. >23 so out of college and by now they know their value very well. They have sponsors or BFs or orbiters funding their lifestyle, they are often dressed in a lot of leather, high heels and designer clothes/handbag with expensive smartphone. These girls are difficult as hell anywhere, night or day. They don't give extra credit for you approaching in the day. They can be bitchy, even in the FSU especially after smartphones gives them access to oil sheikhs and infinite attention. On the other hand, there are girls who you would rate the same /10 but they have very different personality and their style and demeanor reflects that. Those are the girls that are best to meet via daygame. Give me a cute, 19 year old, happy college student over a hot, jaded, 25 year old soft-prostitute any day. With girls who are humble or simply down to earth (realistic), they will give you a shot if they are available. There are some % of girls who never welcome cold approach during the day and there's nothing we can do about it.

TL;DR: Looks really depends on where you are in the world. Being below 6 ft is far from the end of the world. 5'6 and below is when it would really start to impact you in the day time. If you look like a male model in some places you might be regarded as a pretty boy. Some girls for some reason prefer men with faces that look like they've been through a war.


@ksbms - I agree with your point, and your example of calculations of certain factors which contribute to how good a method is in a given environment. Somewhat autistic though it may be, it would be very advantageous to know an exact "number" (and its constituents) for a certain location and method. I guess if we all already knew that there would be an influx of men to that place and using that method, and as such its efficacy would go way, way down. So that's why none of us really have a definitive "poosy paradise" yet. Even if there is one during a certain time period, core factors can change or emerge, that ruin what was once a great place for getting girls.


In general, a lot of guys say "what about work" etc. But let's assume, for argument's sake, one didn't have to work, OR one's work was daygame itself (as it is with Torero etc.), such that you have a LOT of spare time to do daygame and you have the goal to improve the quantity and quality of women you get going forward. Because I think this is where the real improvement takes place: where you just go balls to the wall. For the average conversion rates, doing it once or twice at your leisure nowadays will not cut it. It is absolutely, totally "weird" compared to normal society's expectations. What kind of idiot roams streets, parks and shopping malls for 7 hours every day trying to bang girls? (I would counter that with what kind of idiot slaves away for corporate masters and doesn't at least try to find himself a way out?)

One thing I have noticed is a girl's attention span and the attention and courtesy she gives to you whether in person or via text is very much related to the kind of phone she has and how much she uses it. Depressingly, even a girl who does not use any dating apps, snapchat, IG, or even whatsapp or viber to communicate with friends, will unfortunately still have far more options and attention than she used to have simply via Facebook or VK. Even if the girl uses FB to stay in touch with her favorite aunt or her grandparents, the orbiters will get up in there any way they can. Old HS friends hitting her up constantly. Friends talking shit about absolutely nothing. As Roosh said in his live show when some guy mentioned Roosh's excellent time in Poland, Roosh immediately laughed and said "Bro -- that was 6 years ago, before the smartphone!"

Daygame is amongst other reasons hard because you are not going to bang the same day, and you are competing with her life, both her real life and more so now her life within that little handheld device. Even in 2009-2012 when the majority of the events in John Bodi's book occurred, these tourists and EE girls who were the fodder of the London daygame guys at the time -- many didn't have smartphones. If they had phones, it would be only capable of SMS, maybe Facebook, so they would have to take emails or agree to meet at a certain time next to a certain landmark. In 2006 when the simple flip phones were most fashionable, they only had simple functionality. They were useful to communicate but didn't take over a girl's life. Just over a decade later, and everything is affected: night game, day game, social circle etc.

TL;DR The results of earlier daygamers may not continue into the future as smartphones spread even as far as hot girls living in the middle of Siberia. (They certainly would prefer to go to a hot destination e.g. Dubai and get paid big bucks for doing so.)

[colblionel]

(01-06-2018 09:30 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

@colblionel -- There's being "not tall" e.g. 5'7-5'10 and then there is being what I'd say is short e.g. 5'6 and below. It's important to have realistic expectations but it's a bit defeatist especially in the case of, say, a good looking guy who is 5'9, to say that he cannot get girls because he is not tall enough. Height is one factor, but just one. As long as I'm taller than the girl it seems to be enough.

Looks (same debate over again). Yes they matter especially in cold approach where the girl has little information about you except your looks and your vibe on your initial approach. If you have an absolute poon dust dirt bag vibe as a result of great confidence in daygame from real results (this is impossible to fake), then your vibe will often compensate for any deficit in looks e.g. you can be very average but as long as you're not ugly you stand a chance. Improving looks with clothing and style is an obvious one: if your face is not naturally attractive, you can still make the "image" of you attractive with style, clothing, grooming and accessories. If you look decent, chances are most hot girls have fucked uglier guys than you. Definitely when you exit the West.

And that's the other thing about looks: in the West it seems to matter a lot more. In Poland, unless I am completely deluded and got it wrong, the average standard of a guy's looks and style was much, much, much lower than in the West, so I got eyefucked a lot more and my approaches were just more successful with IOIs even as I opened indirect. If you're "bad looking" according to USA male model standards, in EE there are skinheads and other types of guys who look "tough" who are seen as physically attractive. I even had guys tell me that in Poland they "dress down" so that they don't look too good, because girls either get intimidated or they label you as a good looking player and they don't trust you etc. My best approaches in Poland were done when I was dressed in converse shoes, jeans, cardigan, that's it. When I upped the "style" and added a few more "bad boy" elements that would have got me better results stateside, a lot of girls were scared of me or they started asking more questions like why I am there, how long I am there, why did I approach them etc.

About these "hot" girls. I've always said it: there are two types of attractive girls "hot/sexy" or "pretty/beautiful". There can be some elements of both in girls but generally the "hot/sexy" girls are older e.g. >23 so out of college and by now they know their value very well. They have sponsors or BFs or orbiters funding their lifestyle, they are often dressed in a lot of leather, high heels and designer clothes/handbag with expensive smartphone. These girls are difficult as hell anywhere, night or day. They don't give extra credit for you approaching in the day. They can be bitchy, even in the FSU especially after smartphones gives them access to oil sheikhs and infinite attention. On the other hand, there are girls who you would rate the same /10 but they have very different personality and their style and demeanor reflects that. Those are the girls that are best to meet via daygame. Give me a cute, 19 year old, happy college student over a hot, jaded, 25 year old soft-prostitute any day. With girls who are humble or simply down to earth (realistic), they will give you a shot if they are available. There are some % of girls who never welcome cold approach during the day and there's nothing we can do about it.

TL;DR: Looks really depends on where you are in the world. Being below 6 ft is far from the end of the world. 5'6 and below is when it would really start to impact you in the day time. If you look like a male model in some places you might be regarded as a pretty boy. Some girls for some reason prefer men with faces that look like they've been through a war.

Yes I should’ve clarified that I was doing Day game in the U.S. and results will vary in other countries.

For guys doing Day game what type of girls are attracted to you the most?

From all the girls you’ve banged in Day game which ones felt like the easiest?

I think this is important for guys doing game in general.

For 2018 one of my goals is to really drill down what type of girls are attracted to me most and really spend my time exploiting that niche.

[Truth Teller]

(01-03-2018 08:02 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

If your goal is to be a player and get pussy, you don't need a high quality woman. Stop confusing goals so you can start getting pussy more efficiently.

Having game and being a player doesn't just mean getting pussy. It means getting pussy that's consistently as good looking as you or better.

Fucking fat chicks isn't tough. Fucking attractive ones can be.

[The Catalyst]

(01-07-2018 12:44 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:02 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

If your goal is to be a player and get pussy, you don't need a high quality woman. Stop confusing goals so you can start getting pussy more efficiently.

Having game and being a player doesn't just mean getting pussy. It means getting pussy that's consistently as good looking as you or better.

Fucking fat chicks isn't tough. Fucking attractive ones can be.

Sometimes I wonder why people bother being players if they don't go after hot girls . I mean I know people have different standards but still it feels weird to me.

[Nowak]

(01-07-2018 12:48 AM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

(01-07-2018 12:44 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  

(01-03-2018 08:02 PM)BossOfBosses Wrote:  

If your goal is to be a player and get pussy, you don't need a high quality woman. Stop confusing goals so you can start getting pussy more efficiently.

Having game and being a player doesn't just mean getting pussy. It means getting pussy that's consistently as good looking as you or better.

Fucking fat chicks isn't tough. Fucking attractive ones can be.

Sometimes I wonder why people bother being players if they don't go after hot girls . I mean I know people have different standards but still it feels weird to me.

This^ With day game especially I can't see the reason to go after 6s and 7s if its a matter of the time effort and energy,heck even an 8 should be a good lay and fun to be around. I think daygame is a decent way to meet girls given all the pros and cons. What really should be addressed on this thread is the fucktardery of direct day game and how its making cities,especially in EE harder with poisoning the well. Krauser is a game parasite with all the bootcamps he runs everywhere, as are all the other chodes.

[Nowak]

(01-06-2018 09:30 PM)Skank_Hunt Wrote:  

@colblionel -- There's being "not tall" e.g. 5'7-5'10 and then there is being what I'd say is short e.g. 5'6 and below. It's important to have realistic expectations but it's a bit defeatist especially in the case of, say, a good looking guy who is 5'9, to say that he cannot get girls because he is not tall enough. Height is one factor, but just one. As long as I'm taller than the girl it seems to be enough.

Looks (same debate over again). Yes they matter especially in cold approach where the girl has little information about you except your looks and your vibe on your initial approach. If you have an absolute poon dust dirt bag vibe as a result of great confidence in daygame from real results (this is impossible to fake), then your vibe will often compensate for any deficit in looks e.g. you can be very average but as long as you're not ugly you stand a chance. Improving looks with clothing and style is an obvious one: if your face is not naturally attractive, you can still make the "image" of you attractive with style, clothing, grooming and accessories. If you look decent, chances are most hot girls have fucked uglier guys than you. Definitely when you exit the West.

And that's the other thing about looks: in the West it seems to matter a lot more. In Poland, unless I am completely deluded and got it wrong, the average standard of a guy's looks and style was much, much, much lower than in the West, so I got eyefucked a lot more and my approaches were just more successful with IOIs even as I opened indirect. If you're "bad looking" according to USA male model standards, in EE there are skinheads and other types of guys who look "tough" who are seen as physically attractive. I even had guys tell me that in Poland they "dress down" so that they don't look too good, because girls either get intimidated or they label you as a good looking player and they don't trust you etc. My best approaches in Poland were done when I was dressed in converse shoes, jeans, cardigan, that's it. When I upped the "style" and added a few more "bad boy" elements that would have got me better results stateside, a lot of girls were scared of me or they started asking more questions like why I am there, how long I am there, why did I approach them etc.

About these "hot" girls. I've always said it: there are two types of attractive girls "hot/sexy" or "pretty/beautiful". There can be some elements of both in girls but generally the "hot/sexy" girls are older e.g. >23 so out of college and by now they know their value very well. They have sponsors or BFs or orbiters funding their lifestyle, they are often dressed in a lot of leather, high heels and designer clothes/handbag with expensive smartphone. These girls are difficult as hell anywhere, night or day. They don't give extra credit for you approaching in the day. They can be bitchy, even in the FSU especially after smartphones gives them access to oil sheikhs and infinite attention. On the other hand, there are girls who you would rate the same /10 but they have very different personality and their style and demeanor reflects that. Those are the girls that are best to meet via daygame. Give me a cute, 19 year old, happy college student over a hot, jaded, 25 year old soft-prostitute any day. With girls who are humble or simply down to earth (realistic), they will give you a shot if they are available. There are some % of girls who never welcome cold approach during the day and there's nothing we can do about it.

TL;DR: Looks really depends on where you are in the world. Being below 6 ft is far from the end of the world. 5'6 and below is when it would really start to impact you in the day time. If you look like a male model in some places you might be regarded as a pretty boy. Some girls for some reason prefer men with faces that look like they've been through a war.


@ksbms - I agree with your point, and your example of calculations of certain factors which contribute to how good a method is in a given environment. Somewhat autistic though it may be, it would be very advantageous to know an exact "number" (and its constituents) for a certain location and method. I guess if we all already knew that there would be an influx of men to that place and using that method, and as such its efficacy would go way, way down. So that's why none of us really have a definitive "poosy paradise" yet. Even if there is one during a certain time period, core factors can change or emerge, that ruin what was once a great place for getting girls.


In general, a lot of guys say "what about work" etc. But let's assume, for argument's sake, one didn't have to work, OR one's work was daygame itself (as it is with Torero etc.), such that you have a LOT of spare time to do daygame and you have the goal to improve the quantity and quality of women you get going forward. Because I think this is where the real improvement takes place: where you just go balls to the wall. For the average conversion rates, doing it once or twice at your leisure nowadays will not cut it. It is absolutely, totally "weird" compared to normal society's expectations. What kind of idiot roams streets, parks and shopping malls for 7 hours every day trying to bang girls? (I would counter that with what kind of idiot slaves away for corporate masters and doesn't at least try to find himself a way out?)

One thing I have noticed is a girl's attention span and the attention and courtesy she gives to you whether in person or via text is very much related to the kind of phone she has and how much she uses it. Depressingly, even a girl who does not use any dating apps, snapchat, IG, or even whatsapp or viber to communicate with friends, will unfortunately still have far more options and attention than she used to have simply via Facebook or VK. Even if the girl uses FB to stay in touch with her favorite aunt or her grandparents, the orbiters will get up in there any way they can. Old HS friends hitting her up constantly. Friends talking shit about absolutely nothing. As Roosh said in his live show when some guy mentioned Roosh's excellent time in Poland, Roosh immediately laughed and said "Bro -- that was 6 years ago, before the smartphone!"

Daygame is amongst other reasons hard because you are not going to bang the same day, and you are competing with her life, both her real life and more so now her life within that little handheld device. Even in 2009-2012 when the majority of the events in John Bodi's book occurred, these tourists and EE girls who were the fodder of the London daygame guys at the time -- many didn't have smartphones. If they had phones, it would be only capable of SMS, maybe Facebook, so they would have to take emails or agree to meet at a certain time next to a certain landmark. In 2006 when the simple flip phones were most fashionable, they only had simple functionality. They were useful to communicate but didn't take over a girl's life. Just over a decade later, and everything is affected: night game, day game, social circle etc.

TL;DR The results of earlier daygamers may not continue into the future as smartphones spread even as far as hot girls living in the middle of Siberia. (They certainly would prefer to go to a hot destination e.g. Dubai and get paid big bucks for doing so.)

SH, excellent post, this is one of the best game posts I've seen in quite some time.

When I think of where day game is going I think of the cold war, its become a nuclear arms race in many ways. Its not hard for a city under 800k to be played out and even large cities like Belgrade and Kiev for girls to become more jaded , there is zero barrier to entry. More gamers, more tech ,more overall social atomization and isolation will create a situation that will make day game harder. You made an interesting point about fashion, the clothes you described above I'd actually consider fashionable.Might try a different jacket though and see if it changes my results. Good point about the cardigan. The hottest girls one can get with day game it seems follow under 2 criteria, they speak poor if any English and they are under 21. Girls know their value but it seems easier to date super hot girls under 21 than hot or cute girls above 23.

[Pointer]

I believe day game will be the only way to meet a quality girl in the next 3 to 5 years max, outside of social circle.

Nightlife is going down the toilet with a lot of venues closing down and worse ratios every year. Compared to let's say 4 years ago I see a lot less women going to bars and clubs. Those that do get a lot more attention as a result. Places around Europe that I used to think were amazing have either closed down or are now empty.

A lot of venues have gotten a lot "cleaner" and boring. Even student clubs where people would make out everywhere and bang in the toilets are now history. Nowadays students prefer house gatherings or parties in a closed environment. I believe this is due to social media which has transformed them into socially awkward zombies. They are incapable of communicating with strangers and making friends outside of their small clique.

You can still find some decent bars and clubs but you have to do your research and go on specific days. There is no consistency.

The only venues that are still OK are the ones where you have some sort of dances going on: salsa, bachata, kizumba etc. There is still some talent left in those places.

Tinder, Instagram is a waste of time imo. You don't need game to pick up on those platforms and because of that quality is very low. Nobody gives a shit about your profile, only pics matter and they better be good. It's a all or nothing situation where attention whores have all the power. In the past 2 years I haven't met one single guy that is banging or dating a quality girl off Tinder. What I've seen instead is a lot of bragging about easy lays with 4s and 5s that you wouldn't even notice on the street. Because of the application itself acting as a barrier you never really know what you're getting.

Day game is the only way to meet a more genuine attractive girl in an environment where she isn't bombarded by thirsty dudes vying for her attention. It's the only to maximize your potential by incorporating both your looks and your charm into the approach and hopefully landing a girl that's out of your league. Even if you're a short, ugly dude, you still have more chances to bullshit your way into her pants rather than using your body language in a club or photoshopped pics on Tinder.

[worldtraveler3]

This has been going on for many years. Night game is now niche game. You have to know where you are going at a particular night. Most small clubs are already full of social groups. Big clubs where they play mainstream or house have bad ratios or the girls in the groups already got someone.

[Skank_Hunt]

(01-07-2018 10:51 AM)Pointer Wrote:  

I believe day game will be the only way to meet a quality girl in the next 3 to 5 years max, outside of social circle.

Nightlife is going down the toilet with a lot of venues closing down and worse ratios every year.

You can still find some decent bars and clubs but you have to do your research and go on specific days. There is no consistency.

The only venues that are still OK are the ones where you have some sort of dances going on: salsa, bachata, kizumba etc. There is still some talent left in those places.

Tinder, Instagram is a waste of time imo. You don't need game to pick up on those platforms and because of that quality is very low.
Day game is the only way to meet a more genuine attractive girl in an environment where she isn't bombarded by thirsty dudes vying for her attention.

@Pointer -- I definitely agree in terms of cold approach (non SC) then daygame it must be. But, as we all know, it comes at a great cost. A small % of guys are just the right mix of insensitive/psychopathic/socially retarded and socially calibrated that they can daygame in huge numbers necessary for success without being bothered by what bothers most guys doing daygame, especially solo daygame. For most guys, however, if you take away the wide-eyed in-bootcamp, post-bootcamp newbies and other idiots running shit daygame all over the streets and making it worse for everyone else, then sticking in daygame is a hard slog, an understatment if ever there was one, and if you're going solo, in a foreign country, especially in FSU trying to game pretty girls in, say, Russian, that's a pretty intimidating level of difficulty. And it's pretty much all down to the smartphone.

(01-07-2018 07:26 AM)Nowak Wrote:  

When I think of where day game is going I think of the cold war, its become a nuclear arms race in many ways. Its not hard for a city under 800k to be played out and even large cities like Belgrade and Kiev for girls to become more jaded , there is zero barrier to entry. More gamers, more tech, more overall social atomization and isolation will create a situation that will make day game harder. You made an interesting point about fashion, the clothes you described above I'd actually consider fashionable. Might try a different jacket though and see if it changes my results. Good point about the cardigan. The hottest girls one can get with day game it seems follow under 2 criteria, they speak poor if any English and they are under 21. Girls know their value but it seems easier to date super hot girls under 21 than hot or cute girls above 23.

@Nowak, Cold War/Arms Race is a good way to put it. John Bodi actually comments on this in his book, obviously something Krauser fails to do, because him and his bootcamps and disciples are some of the main culprits. Daygame spam shits where you eat and where other men eat as well. But no one can stop a daygame spammer from doing what he's doing. The direct run around front stop game just makes it so much worse. I can spot daygamers easily just from the way they are standing, let alone the way they dress and do the front stop run around. And every girl is a target. I at least try to talk to girls I can see good potential in. Tourist girls in London might be for more short-term, but day gaming local girls I think needs to be done with more awareness of the bigger picture. It would be nice if there were less retards in the world spam direct approaching everything that moves, but it's just impossible at this point. Hopefully these guys will finally see that daygame is actually fucking hard and is a lot more than spamming canned pedestalizing direct openers. I see a lot of bootcamps, but I don't see many men doing daygame alone and being successful in the long-term. I think men after the post-bootcamp high quit pretty quickly when they realize how much of a grind it will be. But there is always another dozen newbies to hand over his $3000 for an RSD bootcamp.

Kiev is probably going downhill a bit not just because of the daygamers, but the Turks, other foreigners, obvious sex tourists, and just the big city mentality girls have. I would hate to think daygamers alone can ruin a whole city as big as Kiev.

Nowadays, you have to really differentiate yourself from those guys. Often cities are just so played out that girls simply will not trust even guys with decent game approaching them in the day because of so many bad/weird experiences in the past. For countries where girls do give you credit for learning the language, speaking in their language is much better than expecting all girls to speak English. Then there's your background story you have to make convincing etc.

Yes, I have found the better quality girls actually don't speak much English. On the other hand, there are some college girls e.g. 20-21 who excelled in English at school and who like to talk the language, and these can be better quality as well. However as you go further East into Ukraine and Russia, less English and generally less Western preferences e.g. Android/Huawei phone, traditional family, nationalism but also openness to meet decent foreigners, they are better. When you get to something like 24, 25, 26 - these girls may have been "good girls" before but now they know their value and they sell it all the time. Multiple provider BFs, maybe an alpha Gopnik to serve her needs, middle eastern or other foreign sponsors etc. It's obvious: you look at the average local wage and look at her clothes, makeup, hair and accessories. These girls are a thrill to fuck but extremely difficult and they are just very hard to keep. And to be honest, not really worth keeping despite that they might look "hot". In FSU scale, they are getting old and jaded very fast. A girl can get jaded pretty damn fast if she is getting paid by saudi princes to shit on their chest and dribble their diarrhea on their face*. Globalization at its finest. Without the smartphone and social media within it, these girls would not have access to any of these guys and would at least be a lot higher quality than they are with these devices.

(*Somewhere I heard some princes made bets who could dribble the most wet diarrhea on a girl's face, especially on her lips, the winner would get the next choice of girls to shit on.)

[Riquelme]

Interesting documentary:

[Giovonny]

Day game is NOT about meeting women.

Day Game is about meeting YOURSELF.

Women are a mirror, they show us a reflection of our self.

I get a lot of sex from day game. But, more importantly, I got to know myself, study myself, examine myself, improve myself.

When you are comfortable in your own skin, you can have fun anywhere.. and.. When you can have fun anywhere -- YOU CAN MEET GIRLS EVERYWHERE!

--

My biggest keys are Looks and Location. I gotta have the right look in the right location. After that, its all self belief and drive.

I like, and almost need to interact with sexy women on a regular basis, other guys may not feel this need. I don't drink and I go to bed early, other guys party. I talk to pretty girls anywhere and everywhere at any time.

"day game" is just talking to people. Don't over think it

[Innovative]

(01-07-2018 10:51 AM)Pointer Wrote:  

I believe day game will be the only way to meet a quality girl in the next 3 to 5 years max, outside of social circle.

Nightlife is going down the toilet with a lot of venues closing down and worse ratios every year. Compared to let's say 4 years ago I see a lot less women going to bars and clubs. Those that do get a lot more attention as a result. Places around Europe that I used to think were amazing have either closed down or are now empty.

A lot of venues have gotten a lot "cleaner" and boring. Even student clubs where people would make out everywhere and bang in the toilets are now history. Nowadays students prefer house gatherings or parties in a closed environment. I believe this is due to social media which has transformed them into socially awkward zombies. They are incapable of communicating with strangers and making friends outside of their small clique.

You can still find some decent bars and clubs but you have to do your research and go on specific days. There is no consistency.

The only venues that are still OK are the ones where you have some sort of dances going on: salsa, bachata, kizumba etc. There is still some talent left in those places.

Tinder, Instagram is a waste of time imo. You don't need game to pick up on those platforms and because of that quality is very low. Nobody gives a shit about your profile, only pics matter and they better be good. It's a all or nothing situation where attention whores have all the power. In the past 2 years I haven't met one single guy that is banging or dating a quality girl off Tinder. What I've seen instead is a lot of bragging about easy lays with 4s and 5s that you wouldn't even notice on the street. Because of the application itself acting as a barrier you never really know what you're getting.

Day game is the only way to meet a more genuine attractive girl in an environment where she isn't bombarded by thirsty dudes vying for her attention. It's the only to maximize your potential by incorporating both your looks and your charm into the approach and hopefully landing a girl that's out of your league. Even if you're a short, ugly dude, you still have more chances to bullshit your way into her pants rather than using your body language in a club or photoshopped pics on Tinder.

I disagree on the deadline you're suggesting for nightgame and meeting quality girls. Although, I do see nightgame as below:

(01-08-2018 01:08 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  

This has been going on for many years. Night game is now niche game. You have to know where you are going at a particular night.

For me, I found my niche which is actually going to places where I can dance, show I know how to dance and capitalize on it. Dance places actually have a better ratio than clubs and the easiness to approach is right there.

As for daygaming, I see it as not really giving a fuck about what people think and socializing, remove the headphones and talk. I've met some pretty cool women/men in department shops. When meeting women, I don't really care if it is going to be insta-sex or if it will take me some dates if I see some value on the girl.

Daygaming for the sole purpose of gaming is a waste of time. Maybe when you're very young and use it as a tool to overcome approach anxiety as someone pointed out here.

[MathGuy]

@colblionel: "The reality is that approach anxiety doesn’t really go away you just learn to manage it better."

In my experience, it actually does go away. To be more specific, the 'anxiety' part goes away but you still have hesitation unless you condition yourself to instantly approach any girl who might be fuck worthy, which no reasonable person would want as a goal.

@Nowak: "What really should be addressed on this thread is the fucktardery of direct day game and how its making cities,especially in EE harder with poisoning the well. Krauser is a game parasite with all the bootcamps he runs everywhere, as are all the other chodes."

Direct daygame, when done well, is the exact opposite of 'fucktarded.' Aspy daygame newbies can make the environments tougher, sure, but they don't make it impossible to succeed. Also, Krauser doesn't run bootcamps everywhere. You might be mistaking him with Torero (who is just one guy) or RSD (mainly based in the USA).

I'm guessing you're an indirect daygame advocate? That has its perks, but it's important to learn both styles for more flexibility.

@Riquelme: That documentary is one of my favorite videos of all time. I had a Skype call with Tom Torero to be considered as a candidate for NYC, but didn't make the cut. I've chatted a little bit with the guy in the van from NYC though, he's a friendly and driven guy.

--------------------

Now as far as the topic of whether daygame is 'efficient' or not, I would say it boils down to what you consider acceptable results from the amount of effort you need to put in, and your attitude towards that process. Some people would say that 3 lays per 100 approaches is an awfully low amount, and on the surface it definitely does glaringly look like that, but at the same time realize that the average **lifetime** laycount is 6. Your run of the mill intermediate daygamer can easily get twice that amount in a single year. Torero has a laycount over 200 from daygame. In terms of time spent, a blowout takes only a few seconds, a regular approach that doesn't succeed takes only a few minutes (& gives valuable reference experience), an approach that leads to an extended amount of time spent (on the date, etc) can take up a few hours and even if you don't get laid you'll get valuable reference experience. Note that the reference experience you get from interacting with women in daygame benefits all other social interactions as well.

When you do get laid from daygame, the feeling should be even better than a lay from online game, because you were able to meet a random stranger off the street and use a mix of charisma, confidence, the work you put into your looks, all the experiences you've had in life that manifests itself in the things you say, etc etc, to get her attracted to and comfortable with you (a random stranger), to the point where she had sex. This is something that probably will never happen to her again. **The reason I think daygame is worthwhile isn't because it's supposed to be efficient in terms of easily getting laid, but because it can be so emotionally rewarding. Realize that even if you aren't every single woman you talk to, you're still having pleasant interactions with a large quantity and wide variety of women of all kinds in all sorts of interesting settings.**

[ksbms]

[quote='MathGuy' pid='1715974' dateline='1515595890']
@colblionel: "The reality is that approach anxiety doesn’t really go away you just learn to manage it better."

In my experience, it actually does go away. To be more specific, the 'anxiety' part goes away but you still have hesitation unless you condition yourself to instantly approach any girl who might be fuck worthy, which no reasonable person would want as a goal.

It does. But one needs to practice it almost daily. It''s like weightlifting. Let it slip for one week, muscles being to atrophy.

@Nowak: "What really should be addressed on this thread is the fucktardery of direct day game and how its making cities,especially in EE harder with poisoning the well. Krauser is a game parasite with all the bootcamps he runs everywhere, as are all the other chodes."

Nowak seems to know next to nothing about Krauser. Never met him, but from what I understand, he doesn't teach at all, although he wrote on his blog he might do a few residentials 1 on 1. Possibly for £5000.

I'm guessing you're an indirect daygame advocate? That has its perks, but it's important to learn both styles for more flexibility.

Indirect is mucho more difficult, and most of the time confusing to a girl. They often genuinely think that you asked about the quality of these Italian tomatoes because making pizza at home is your passion an when you switch, it looks like you had no balls. it's so much easier to look at the girl, pick something about her (looks, race, nationality, appearance, clothing) and open with that.

@Riquelme: That documentary is one of my favorite videos of all time. I had a Skype call with Tom Torero to be considered as a candidate for NYC, but didn't make the cut. I've chatted a little bit with the guy in the van from NYC though, he's a friendly and driven guy.

I watched it, and surprisingly recognized one face! However, I wasn't overly impressed. I thought I'd see more approaches and possibly with a little more sophistication and belligerence - frankly, all were a nice guy garden variety and not a single guy even touched (handshake doesn't count) a girl and/or made sexual comment so the vibe was flat throughout.

A bit more in-depth analysis of motivations and drives of these gamesmen would be useful. However, with no budget and one-person doing everything, one can't expect too much.
--------------------

Now as far as the topic of whether daygame is 'efficient' or not, I would say it boils down to what you consider acceptable results from the amount of effort you need to put in, and your attitude towards that process. Some people would say that 3 lays per 100 approaches is an awfully low amount, and on the surface it definitely does glaringly look like that, [..].

Talk to 50 women and lay a 7+ girl (18-25 years old, not a 35yo divorcee with two kids) is as good as it gets (for a normal man). I'd say many more swipes and emails need sending out online to bang a 7+.

When you do get laid from daygame, the feeling should be even better than a lay from online game, because you were able to meet a random stranger off the street and use a mix of charisma, confidence, the work you put into your looks, all the experiences you've had in life that manifests itself in the things you say, etc etc, to get her attracted to and comfortable with you (a random stranger), to the point where she had sex.

Precisely.

This is something that probably will never happen to her again.

Yes and no. Depends how pretty she is and where she lives. But yes, on average, a girl will not be expertly seduced over hours or days more than a couple times over her lifetime. Many a time I was told by a girl I was first guy ever to approach her. Especially these days you either have a fraction of hardcore, daygame determined men who'll make their play, and a see of soyboys whose only skill is to swipe and message.

[ksbms]

Here's another, in your face (pun intended) counter-argument showing that daygame not only can be fun but also has important, advantageous characteristics. Characteristics that render it a formidable tool in an accomplished gamesman's arsenal. Look at the picture below. Look carefully.

   

It's obvious, isn't it?

Note that the girl writes that "Make up gives you the power to control [...]" which is spin-doctoring, nothing else. More appropriate statement would be worded as "Make up gives the power to deceive [...]", for that's the real purpose of it.

Have a look once more at her face. It's not that her left side looks more attractive due to make up. Her real side, with no make up reveals information regarding her health and, possibly subpar fertility. Potentially, her immune system is off-balance, perhaps because of some serious underlying condition, perhaps her diet is bad because she doesn't manage things in her life well so she deals with stress by overeating, perhaps she's doesn't know how to cook and feasts on ready-mades and sweets, or she's a smoker (or all things bundled together - there's a lot of information in her skin, right there that, in principle, is clearly visible). In short, she tries to hide it and advertise herself as a girl with prime, lustrous skin that is associated with premium fertility, well-regulated immune system, excellent diet and good impulse control.

Yet, she and all her sisters don't seem to see the hypocrisy and do what they can to enhance their market value with no impunity. A man calling a girl out would probably earn a few invectives to boot, if not more these days. On the other side, most men would be ridiculed (by both men and women) to claim he keeps Lamborghini and Ferrari in his garage whereas, in reality, he drives an old, second-hand bought Honda. But I digress.

Such a girl (and many like hers) in a bar or club, with impeccably applied foundation and make-up (and what have you (from boobs and lips augmentation to fake nails and legs looking longer due to high heels), in that very bar or club with low lights and darkness to make things appear flattering, relaxed and suggestive atmosphere, men's alcohol intoxication and all competition at stake to seduce her on top of that, make her and her sisters appear (but not be) more attractive then they really are - essentially, she and her sisters are deceiving men with no compunction about it and absolved from a requirement to look genuine. Hell, we don't even think about it as hypocrisy, that's a given.

Enter a busy, pedestrianized area on a Thursday afternoon with girls frolicking to and fro, undertaking their mundane shopping activities, sipping lattes, reading a book whilst sitting in a park. The sun is out, it's bright daylight, fresh air all around, enthusiasm of upcoming spring and things clearly noticeable - a majority of girls wear no fancy foundation and make up, their face well-lit by the afternoon sunbeams, there's no ethanol in your system to make error-prone judgements, there's no blazing music from stereo speakers. There's no cacophony of surrounding voices, no confusion or haze but a clearly thinking system of your mind scanning girl after girl to make an informed, precise and advantageous decision. A decision which girl to approach with little to no distortion in regard to her attractiveness. To me, it's a serious advantage. One of the reasons I see daygame superior. I see what I'm buying on this sunny afternoon.

[the1element]

There are millions of ways to game girls and meet them.

Figure out ways congruent to who you are.

If you don't want to spend an hour in a mall approaching girls, then don't.

Find other ways.

Get creative.

[sterlingarcher]

I have been really into daygame for the past few years. I don't even like going to bars/clubs anymore, as by comparison it seems a really stupid way to meet women. Their guard is up, they are surrounded by friends, it's loud, it's inauthentic...

However recently it's dauned on me that it really might be the hardest way. Or unnecessarily hard.

I've been experimenting with 'ignore'em game'))

[TripleG]

The “ignore’em” game has worked well for me, 0 lays this year.

[Green-On-GO]

As I get older 47 now I just don't get really horny in the day time but as soon as it gets on dusk I start feeling it.I was never an early morning person etc.I was always a night person even in the Army I was better at night than alot of other dudes.

Maybe night v day has got something to do with our natural rythms?

The exception being when I'm near a beach or beach location.
Which always made me wonder about famous daygamers how they never hit the beach side during summer .Its always Euro cities with no water.When you can hit Euro beach side with chicks that speak English really well.On vaction dtf..
My guess it's a fear of Amogs for these dudes in Europe.
Aussie and coastal Yanks don't have this issue I reckon.


There ars places in Oz and Europe like Barcelona..near water that I get that feeling .Budapest Prague which I love but its got to get darker for me then I really love it.Like its darker underground so as soon as I jump on a train in a subway in Buda I start pinging but when I hit sun light I return to a normal state.

I really think its all got to do with timing and how we operate as men.But as someone said nightlife is dying.Not only that but competition in the nightlife is dying when women come out.I think I've got a few more years left.Shit if I had money I'd be inundated with sugar baby action.Also young blokes are into Milf cougar ignoring youger women.Thats out my way I don't know about other locations.

I agree with Troy Francis as older men it should be holistic game.

I got a mate that got congratulated by Tinder for 5000 likes he just sits at home.

[Green-On-GO]

(01-14-2018 12:30 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

Here's another, in your face (pun intended) counter-argument showing that daygame not only can be fun but also has important, advantageous characteristics. Characteristics that render it a formidable tool in an accomplished gamesman's arsenal. Look at the picture below. Look carefully.



It's obvious, isn't it?

Note that the girl writes that "Make up gives you the power to control [...]" which is spin-doctoring, nothing else. More appropriate statement would be worded as "Make up gives the power to deceive [...]", for that's the real purpose of it.

Have a look once more at her face. It's not that her left side looks more attractive due to make up. Her real side, with no make up reveals information regarding her health and, possibly subpar fertility. Potentially, her immune system is off-balance, perhaps because of some serious underlying condition, perhaps her diet is bad because she doesn't manage things in her life well so she deals with stress by overeating, perhaps she's doesn't know how to cook and feasts on ready-mades and sweets, or she's a smoker (or all things bundled together - there's a lot of information in her skin, right there that, in principle, is clearly visible). In short, she tries to hide it and advertise herself as a girl with prime, lustrous skin that is associated with premium fertility, well-regulated immune system, excellent diet and good impulse control.

Yet, she and all her sisters don't seem to see the hypocrisy and do what they can to enhance their market value with no impunity. A man calling a girl out would probably earn a few invectives to boot, if not more these days. On the other side, most men would be ridiculed (by both men and women) to claim he keeps Lamborghini and Ferrari in his garage whereas, in reality, he drives an old, second-hand bought Honda. But I digress.

Such a girl (and many like hers) in a bar or club, with impeccably applied foundation and make-up (and what have you (from boobs and lips augmentation to fake nails and legs looking longer due to high heels), in that very bar or club with low lights and darkness to make things appear flattering, relaxed and suggestive atmosphere, men's alcohol intoxication and all competition at stake to seduce her on top of that, make her and her sisters appear (but not be) more attractive then they really are - essentially, she and her sisters are deceiving men with no compunction about it and absolved from a requirement to look genuine. Hell, we don't even think about it as hypocrisy, that's a given.

Enter a busy, pedestrianized area on a Thursday afternoon with girls frolicking to and fro, undertaking their mundane shopping activities, sipping lattes, reading a book whilst sitting in a park. The sun is out, it's bright daylight, fresh air all around, enthusiasm of upcoming spring and things clearly noticeable - a majority of girls wear no fancy foundation and make up, their face well-lit by the afternoon sunbeams, there's no ethanol in your system to make error-prone judgements, there's no blazing music from stereo speakers. There's no cacophony of surrounding voices, no confusion or haze but a clearly thinking system of your mind scanning girl after girl to make an informed, precise and advantageous decision. A decision which girl to approach with little to no distortion in regard to her attractiveness. To me, it's a serious advantage. One of the reasons I see daygame superior. I see what I'm buying on this sunny afternoon.

Dude I'm seeing alot more foundation/ make up during the day here and glaringly so.Chicks are putting on make up now not for you or me but for social media apps.
Like trowelling it on, even the really pretty ones.Make up shops ars doing a roaring trade cause chicks are putting on make up like actresses do for stage and screen .
Its all for pics and selfies now.They have day make up and night make up.

Fair enough I didn't see this in Central Europe as they have good skin.

[RexImperator]

Yeah every once in a while come across girls working in shops, etc. who have these extreme makeup jobs which are practically a mask and it just looks plain freaky.

[The Catalyst]

[At 1:16:23] Here K among other things when asked about online game/social media game/Instagram game says (paraphrased), all game is basically the same, just using different tools. Instagram is good, but "Instagram game" is mostly just the latest marketing thing in PUA. It's good to slightly decrease your flake rate if you Insta-close your daygame/cold approach leads. But often gammas use it thinking it's a "hack" or "secret system" to avoid approaching.

Other parts of the video- The London daygame model, calibration, vibe, technique, anecdotes. Also interesting how they talk about "flashy" game that looks good to an observer but isn't optimally effective.

[ksbms]

(01-19-2018 10:37 PM)The Catalyst Wrote:  

[At 1:16:23] Here K among other things when asked about online game/social media game/Instagram game says (paraphrased), all game is basically the same, just using different tools. Instagram is good, but "Instagram game" is mostly just the latest marketing thing in PUA. It's good to slightly decrease your flake rate if you Insta-close your daygame/cold approach leads. But often gammas use it thinking it's a "hack" or "secret system" to avoid approaching.

Other parts of the video- The London daygame model, calibration, vibe, technique, anecdotes. Also interesting how they talk about "flashy" game that looks good to an observer but isn't optimally effective.

I've been reading Daygame Infnite, rougly 1/3 in. What I really notice is that Krauser provides an interesting insight regarding girls' theory of mind - their beliefs, desires, experiences, preferences, and a general Weltaanschaung. These insights can't be formed or experienced playing online game - the created personas behind the curtain are much less genuine than during a raw, unprompted, unprepared approach. Daygame allows for an observant player, to draw some inferences what a girl is really like instead of building a model of a girl based upon some pictures and few messages back and forth. If you only care about a warm hole, makes no difference, but if you want something more...