Quote: (07-18-2014 01:13 AM)Maciano Wrote:
Quote: (07-17-2014 08:28 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:
Quote: (07-17-2014 08:19 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:
Quote: (07-17-2014 07:01 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:
Quote: (07-17-2014 06:53 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:
If it's true that the separatists claimed responsibility then quickly retracted it, then that's fairly incriminating. If so, that kind of pulls the rug out from under Putin if he was hoping for a moral high-ground reason to provide more overt assistance to the separatists. Unless they really screw up, I think Kiev may have just won this thing.
I don't think it fundamentally changes anything.
It gives the West justification for escalated involvement and makes it harder for Russia to justify their involvement if the separatists are culpable.
Yep, I understand. But I don't think it will change anything on the ground. We'll see. Things on the ground can change fast. However, Kiev is certainly a long way off in regards to winning even though they appear to have the separatists boxed into a little corner.
The problem the USA has is Europe wants no part of this (justifiably).
Of course it changes everything.
Putin can't maintain or build alliances now. He'll be isolated. EU, US & UN will be all furious -- deservedly -- and tell their sanctions were morally just, even step it up. The result will be that Putin will be more isolated, he already had little maneuvering space with US & Germany picking the other side. Countries like China & India won't want to offend western euro countries over this.
300 innocent people isn't an accident like any other.
The lives mean nothing sadly to people whom paper push and hold institutional powers. 300+ Palestinians have been mowed down in Gaza this week.. Where is the outrage?...UN? ...exactly.
It's getting to the point where this is a token thing. Every summer the USA scrambles to push forward a war campaign which has the end goal of severely weakening Russia or Iran. For the past 2 summers it was Syria and since that is done now Ukraine is the chief focus. Every summer they push new propaganda towards this. It's just to common now.
Dosnt any sky remember how he dubious claim of a mass murder by Assad was made up with supposed chemical weapons from Russia? This was almost a year ago barley.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nati...story.html
Military runs on the same schedule, spring and summer is high season for operations as they don't like to work in the cold or wet conditions of fall. Every year from May Day to the middle of August the USA always pushes something.
The fact that USA officials are blaming Russia means that they are not to blame. USA officials have zero credibility. None. With a track record of lies going back 10 years now solid.
Plus in the end people forget about simple humanistic qualities. If his was truly a fuck up by Russia why wouldn't they pander and apologize?, aid in investigations? Etc? The area is a war zone and the plane which is flown by a shoddy company, that was flying in banned airspace. If it was truly Russia it would be easy as hell to pander and apologize saying it was a mistake. Nations apologize all the time for fuck ups, well accept America. When the USA shot down the Iran flight in 1998 it never apologized for it and just tossed money at the problem to try to make it disappear.
This isn't some sinister or hidden chess game, as sometimes the best moves are made in the public eye.
In all of this Kiev seems to be the ones changing their stories and not being honest. So hard up for cash the Ukraines are I wouldn't even doubt if they were arm wrangled to put on a stunt like this in exchange for some money.
Both the USA/NATO and Russia would likely have the tech to monitor the missle deployment. One side would rather not share that data, while the other would wait until they are pinned with this, near the point of "retaliation" to roll it out. One side is calling for a objective investigation, the other side is pointing fingers with no proof.