[Alan Partridge]

I think this deserves it's own thread.

http://www.alipac.us/f8/protest-times-lo...ty-307111/

This page gets updated regularly.

Just scroll down to your state.

I'm joining a protest this weekend.

[Samseau]

Quote:

MASSACHUSETTS

Pleasse come visit this page at a later time to see the locations, dates, and times of the protests in Massachusetts.

So much for my state...

But check this out:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/07/...una-pools/

Quote:

The Obama administration has awarded a $50 million contract to a charitable group to buy a Texas resort hotel and transform it in to a 600 bed facility for juvenile illegal aliens.

Meanwhile...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/2012.html

[TheWastelander]

[Cattle Rustler]

Protesting won't change things.....Cargill, Mosanto, Goldmand Sachs, and Lockheed Martin donate to both political parties.

At the end of the day, they're the ones who win. Always.

[Alan Partridge]

(07-16-2014 03:49 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

Protesting won't change things.....Cargill, Mosanto, Goldmand Sachs, and Lockheed Martin donate to both political parties.

At the end of the day, they're the ones who win. Always.

It'll be tough, but things can get done. Politicians must know that they'll be voted out if they support lawlessness. Look how fast the GOP changed their tune on amnesty after Cantor got kicked out of office. Now most of them are even calling for Barry's impeachment.

[Master Of My Own Kingdom]

(07-16-2014 02:36 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:

MASSACHUSETTS

Pleasse come visit this page at a later time to see the locations, dates, and times of the protests in Massachusetts.

So much for my state...

But check this out:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/07/...una-pools/

Quote:

The Obama administration has awarded a $50 million contract to a charitable group to buy a Texas resort hotel and transform it in to a 600 bed facility for juvenile illegal aliens.

Meanwhile...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/2012.html

America has now become a immense refugee camp.

[Baldwin81]

I hear you Alan Partridge. Really man, I hear you.

Unfortunately, I spent enough time in DC to see first-hand how this game is played. What I'm about to note sounds conspiratorial, but it's no accident that this immigration flood happened right around the time Cantor got booted.

It's not even about GOP vs. Dems at this point. We could collectively go on for days with GOP examples and Dem examples. By now, this shit is so flagrant and by protesting you're just playing into the system's delay tactics while thousands upon thousands of illegal immigrants cross the border each day. Each will be housed, insured, clothed, and fed with our tax dollars. It is at once lawless and insane. Still, by protesting you are playing a game with an entity that's already run-up the score and took their starters out.

It's not that big business will get what it wants and it's not that the government is inefficient or inept. The thing is that big business and government are one and the same. Maybe it's Roosh's recent post on DC, but the true betas (myself included) are the men working here and paying taxes for this nonsense. Beta fucking tax donkeys the lot of us.

What is abundantly clear is that the only way disengage as quickly is possible from what I call "SADSAL" (Standard American Diet Standard American Lifestyle). Make your own way financially, discover an environment that is not clinically insane, and live. Day-to-day life in this place is not living and will never be again. /end rant

TL;DR: Odds are stacked against citizens more than most understand.

[Alan Partridge]

(07-16-2014 04:46 PM)Baldwin81 Wrote:  

I hear you Alan Partridge. Really man, I hear you.

Unfortunately, I spent enough time in DC to see first-hand how this game is played. What I'm about to note sounds conspiratorial, but it's no accident that this immigration flood happened right around the time Cantor got booted.

It's not even about GOP vs. Dems at this point. We could collectively go on for days with GOP examples and Dem examples. By now, this shit is so flagrant and by protesting you're just playing into the system's delay tactics while thousands upon thousands of illegal immigrants cross the border each day. Each will be housed, insured, clothed, and fed with our tax dollars. It is at once lawless and insane. Still, by protesting you are playing a game with an entity that's already run-up the score and took their starters out.

It's not that big business will get what it wants and it's not that the government is inefficient or inept. The thing is that big business and government are one and the same. Maybe it's Roosh's recent post on DC, but the true betas (myself included) are the men working here and paying taxes for this nonsense. Beta fucking tax donkeys the lot of us.

What is abundantly clear is that the only way disengage as quickly is possible from what I call "SADSAL" (Standard American Diet Standard American Lifestyle). Make your own way financially, discover an environment that is not clinically insane, and live. Day-to-day life in this place is not living and will never be again. /end rant

TL;DR: Odds are stacked against citizens more than most understand.

Why are the Republicans pushing back though, now? And if they're just feigning, what's in it for them to help import tens of thousands of automatic Democrat voters?

If what you say is true, this just means that we will soon have roving bands of people beating the shit out of illegals and stealing their money. They walk around with cash, usually. This will truly be a real grass-roots campaign.

There will be a lot of anti-immigrant violence. I don't care so much that they live here. But I care when the vast majority of them will suck billions of dollars of welfare every year. And so will many other people. I won't get violent. I'll move to Texas and ride out my last years there. My kids will be setup in Europe (parents already have a place there).

I guess that's why the government is buying huge amounts of ammo: they know of the civil war to come.

[RexImperator]

I know I'm going against the grain here, but I'm actually in favor of amnesty, if in exchange we can have Ted Kennedy's immigration law repealed, and go back (i.e. 1920's) to a policy of slow assimilation... a change to some type of system more similar to Canada's.

That would be a worthwhile trade IMO.

[Samseau]

(07-16-2014 04:56 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

I know I'm going against the grain here, but I'm actually in favor of amnesty, if in exchange we can have Ted Kennedy's immigration law repealed, and go back (i.e. 1920's) to a policy of slow assimilation... a change to some type of system more similar to Canada's.

That would be a worthwhile trade IMO.

They already tried that under Reagan. He gave amnesty, then after that no borders were ever secured.

[Samseau]

(07-16-2014 04:49 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:  

There will be a lot of anti-immigrant violence. I don't care so much that they live here. But I care when the vast majority of them will suck billions of dollars of welfare every year. And so will many other people. I won't get violent. I'll move to Texas and ride out my last years there. My kids will be setup in Europe (parents already have a place there).

I guess that's why the government is buying huge amounts of ammo: they know of the civil war to come.

You're kidding yourself if you think Europe will be better than America. When America starts to go to war with itself, they will pull all of their foreign military back home.

Europe, on top of it's massive Muslim problem, will also have Russia breathing down its neck. Europe is in for one hell of a time.

Basically, either America stands as a free country or the entire world falls into tyranny.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, I don't want US workers to be undercut by cheap labor, nor do I want neighborhoods wrecked by MS13 gangs.

Yet on the other hand, these people make me feel both tall and Anglo since I am a shorter Italian guy. I think flooding the country with them will send the average height spiraling downward and this will benefit me personally. I already see it happening.

Plus, I never liked looking ethnic -- but now I look like one of the Beach Boys by comparison.

As such, illegals have benefited me personally, so I support them for totally petty selfish reasons. And I stand tall -- finally -- in that opinion.

[Samseau]

(07-16-2014 05:40 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, I don't want US workers to be undercut by cheap labor, nor do I want neighborhoods wrecked by MS13 gangs.

Yet on the other hand, these people make me feel both tall and Anglo since I am a shorter Italian guy. I think flooding the country with them will send the average height spiraling downward and this will benefit me personally. I already see it happening.

Plus, I never liked looking ethnic -- but now I look like one of the Beach Boys by comparison.

As such, illegals have benefited me personally, so I support them for totally petty selfish reasons. And I stand tall -- finally -- in that opinion.

How about living in dirt poverty? Is that a good enough selfish reason for you?

I don't think the average American realizes just how much of a hit his standard of living will take if suddenly they need to provide welfare for millions of non-workers on top of the aging baby boomer population.

Bankruptcy looks like it will be on track for my original 2020 prediction.

[Baldwin81]

(07-16-2014 04:49 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:  

Why are the Republicans pushing back though, now?

(471 Congressional seats are up for election on November 4th. Enough political theater here will see the GOP through on account of both moderate and tea-party Republican upsetness over Obamacare)

And if they're just feigning,

(Tea party is not feigning and would just assume lock the doors and set fire to the buildings that house the illegals. The Tea Party has caused no small amount of trouble with the RNC in DC. However, because of lessons learned from this Tea Party trouble moderate Republicans are feigning. They are seeking solutions through congress, through the courts - playing for time while thousands and thousands pour through. Once the elections are over you don't really think any substantial number of these people will be sent back, do you? You don’t really think anything’s going to be different after November 4th, right? Right?? )

what's in it for them to help import tens of thousands of automatic Democrat voters?

(1. Massa' big business gets what massa' big business wants.

2. Do not discount the RNC's naivete when it comes to "Hispanic outreach." As a Texan, you understand, but inside the Beltway Republicans still (!) genuinely think they can "reach" non-Cuban Hispanic voters (lolzzzzzlzlozzzzlolzzzz).)

If what you say is true, this just means that we will soon have roving bands of people beating the shit out of illegals and stealing their money. They walk around with cash, usually. This will truly be a real grass-roots campaign.

(We'll have roving bands of people staring at their smartphones, eating shit food, watching bad television, and... most importantly... buying shit. Consumerism is our only bi-partisan issue.)

There will be a lot of anti-immigrant violence.
(See above. PS When it comes to violence, the smart money is always on the Hondurans)

I don't care so much that they live here. (I do)

But I care when the vast majority of them will suck billions of dollars of welfare every year.

(False premise: The problem is that well-exploited welfare benefits can pay more than a low-level full time job at the some of the same companies that bankroll the Republican (and Dem) parties. I'll concede we're scratching the surface on this point, but the previous sentence is at once true and bad news.)

And so will many other people. (We'll get over it.. it’s almost football season)
I won't get violent. (Me neither, I'll work on getting the fuck out)

I'll move to Texas and ride out my last years there. My kids will be setup in Europe (parents already have a place there). (Texas is a great state. I prefer Europe as well, but they've got a similar strain of problems with a much more virulent strain of illegal immigrant.)

I guess that's why the government is buying huge amounts of ammo: they know of the civil war to come. (The government is inept when it suits them (IE This very issue), but prescient on matters of control and obedience)

[RexImperator]

(07-16-2014 05:34 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-16-2014 04:56 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

I know I'm going against the grain here, but I'm actually in favor of amnesty, if in exchange we can have Ted Kennedy's immigration law repealed, and go back (i.e. 1920's) to a policy of slow assimilation... a change to some type of system more similar to Canada's.

That would be a worthwhile trade IMO.

They already tried that under Reagan. He gave amnesty, then after that no borders were ever secured.

I agree that was a scam but that's not what I'm proposing. I think legal immigration should be curtailed.

The deal proposed is always to cut down on illegal immigration in exchange, which is nonsensical when you think about it.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(07-16-2014 05:45 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-16-2014 05:40 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

I'm of two minds about this.

On the one hand, I don't want US workers to be undercut by cheap labor, nor do I want neighborhoods wrecked by MS13 gangs.

Yet on the other hand, these people make me feel both tall and Anglo since I am a shorter Italian guy. I think flooding the country with them will send the average height spiraling downward and this will benefit me personally. I already see it happening.

Plus, I never liked looking ethnic -- but now I look like one of the Beach Boys by comparison.

As such, illegals have benefited me personally, so I support them for totally petty selfish reasons. And I stand tall -- finally -- in that opinion.

How about living in dirt poverty? Is that a good enough selfish reason for you?

I don't think the average American realizes just how much of a hit his standard of living will take if suddenly they need to provide welfare for millions of non-workers on top of the aging baby boomer population.

Bankruptcy looks like it will be on track for my original 2020 prediction.

Look, if you want my serious economic and socially-oriented thoughts on this, go here.

But don't begrudge me my personal feelings. Because I like going to Wal-Mart, standing in line and looking head and shoulders above other men. I puff my chest out and smile, for finally I am realizing my lifelong dream. Yes! Days of Broken Arrows is standing tall! Yesssss!!! After a lifetime of feeling like an elf around lacrosse bros I am finally king of the hill! Top of the heap!!

I'll tell you what: If the average national height for men drops four inches in the next few years, I'll throw a big party for us all.

It won't cost much either -- I'll get illegals to supply food and wait tables. Hahahahaha.

[MidWest]

This whole immigration debate is ridiculous.

I'm Mexican/American and the argument that illegals are all on welfare and are taking "American" jobs is so outplayed its ridiculous. So are they taking American jobs or on welfare? Which is it going to be? They can't be on welfare and taking American jobs at the same time. BS!

I have family members who are illegal, both my parents are illegal and are filing for green cards right now, and I know many people who are illegal immigrants, so I think I have a pretty good feel for illegal immigrants than most people on this forum. To be completely honest with you guys, I have never met or come across an illegal immigrant who was on welfare, never! Most illegals I know are either mowing lawns or picking strawberries on farms outside the cities. I also know many of them that are cooks and maids. Also the argument that they don't pay taxes is bad. Both my parents are illegal and they pay property taxes every year and yes they own their own house. When I was little and we were poor my mother and father actually tried to apply for food stamps, you know what they told them? "You can't your social security is invalid, you aren't in the system". Obviously illegals can't apply for welfare or food stamps, that is only available to U.S. citizens. But no one wants to talk about that.

The argument that illegals are flooding the welfare system is a huge myth and utter BS.

Instead of the government spending billions on a wall which hasn't done squat to stop illegal immigration using tax payer money, yes American tax payer money, they should focus their resources on stopping American employers from hiring these illegals, because lets face it, if they didn't give them those jobs the illegals wouldn't be here in the first place. Its always the illegal immigrants being attacked for this, but there is no mention about the fat cats who get rich out of cheap labor from illegals. We like to attack the illegal Mexicans and also the Chinese for jobs leaving to China but seem to give the rich fat cat employers a pass all the time. I'm not surprised, America has had a history of attacking those at the bottom end of the socioeconomic spectrum and till this day that hasn't changed. Blame the government and the employers, not illegal Mexicans.

[Cattle Rustler]

All I'm going to say is:

I have yet to see a panhandler that is Hispanic, or a Hispanic hobo. I wonder why.....

[Alpharius]

If you're worried about immigrants stealing your job, you need some higher aspirations.

Undocumented immigrants can't get welfare because its only available to U.S. citizens. By definition they can't without committing fraud - which risks getting caught which risks getting deported.

Most of the kids coming here are fleeing extreme violence - Guatemala and Nicaragua are more dangerous today than they were during either country's civil war. Families are faced with the choice of knowing their kid will be raped/murdered staying in Honduras, or taking the chance that they'll live to see a brighter future if they're sent to relatives in the north.

[Seth_Rose]

(07-16-2014 06:50 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

This whole immigration debate is ridiculous.

I'm Mexican/American and the argument that illegals are all on welfare and are taking "American" jobs is so outplayed its ridiculous. So are they taking American jobs or on welfare? Which is it going to be? They can't be on welfare and taking American jobs at the same time. BS!

I have family members who are illegal, both my parents are illegal and are filing for green cards right now, and I know many people who are illegal immigrants, so I think I have a pretty good feel for illegal immigrants than most people on this forum. To be completely honest with you guys, I have never met or come across an illegal immigrant who was on welfare, never! Most illegals I know are either mowing lawns or picking strawberries on farms outside the cities. I also know many of them that are cooks and maids. Also the argument that they don't pay taxes is bad. Both my parents are illegal and they pay property taxes every year and yes they own their own house. When I was little and we were poor my mother and father actually tried to apply for food stamps, you know what they told them? "You can't your social security is invalid, you aren't in the system". Obviously illegals can't apply for welfare or food stamps, that is only available to U.S. citizens. But no one wants to talk about that.

The argument that illegals are flooding the welfare system is a huge myth and utter BS.

Instead of the government spending billions on a wall which hasn't done squat to stop illegal immigration using tax payer money, yes American tax payer money, they should focus their resources on stopping American employers from hiring these illegals, because lets face it, if they didn't give them those jobs the illegals wouldn't be here in the first place. Its always the illegal immigrants being attacked for this, but there is no mention about the fat cats who get rich out of cheap labor from illegals. We like to attack the illegal Mexicans and also the Chinese for jobs leaving to China but seem to give the rich fat cat employers a pass all the time. I'm not surprised, America has had a history of attacking those at the bottom end of the socioeconomic spectrum and till this day that hasn't changed. Blame the government and the employers, not illegal Mexicans.

Yes, but the issue now is that there is a surge of young children and women flooding the border. Are they coming here to work?

No.

We have child labor laws that say children can't work. The women could work, but they need to stay home and care for the children.

When the men come here that's one thing, they can work manual labor, but young children and mothers will not. They are simply here to enjoy the benefits of our gracious welfare system.

Look at that hotel above. Fuck, I'd live there! Sounds pretty swell to be an illegal immigrant.

Now for my next point. Have you all ever traveled abroad? I'm sure you have, this is the RVF of course. When you go to another country there are immigration procedures in place to see that you are a safe, sane individual who wishes to do no harm upon the country they are entering. How safe is it to have these women and children coming from impoverished, diseased and gang ridden countries coming to our country and we having no idea who they are.

I get it, women and children aren't going to cause too much trouble but nonetheless, all countries have immigration laws for a reason.

Look cheap labor is great for business and I'm not going to say low skilled workers are a bad thing, but I don't think that having a porous border is good by any means. I've worked in a US Embassy before doing consular work. A lot of people want to come to this country, and not all of them are people that we want here.

Keep that in mind.

[Travesty]

(07-16-2014 04:49 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:  

There will be a lot of anti-immigrant violence. I don't care so much that they live here. But I care when the vast majority of them will suck billions of dollars of welfare every year.

No one will do anything physical unless jobs and wages are so bad people cannot afford smartphones, AC/Heating, Netflix, internet, flat screen TVs, comfy couches, and a fridge full of processed food.

It just won't happen unless you go below that marker. That is the barrier to entry for people to get mad and elicit violence nowadays no matter what the cause.

[Seth_Rose]

(07-16-2014 07:38 PM)Osiris Wrote:  

If you're worried about immigrants stealing your job, you need some higher aspirations.

Undocumented immigrants can't get welfare because its only available to U.S. citizens. By definition they can't without committing fraud - which risks getting caught which risks getting deported.

Most of the kids coming here are fleeing extreme violence - Guatemala and Nicaragua are more dangerous today than they were during either country's civil war. Families are faced with the choice of knowing their kid will be raped/murdered staying in Honduras, or taking the chance that they'll live to see a brighter future if they're sent to relatives in the north.

Now you just sound misinformed.

First of all, we're not worried about these immigrants taking our jobs as individuals, rather we are concerned about the well being of Americans who are blue collar.

You say illegal immigrants can't get welfare, but guess what, if that American loses his job to an illegal immigrant he is going to go on welfare, which will still cost the taxpayers money.

And on that note, you're not entirely right:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/polit.../12594927/

Obama asked for $3.7 billion for this flood of immigrants, a lot of which is for food and clothing.

Also, those countries in central America have been in poor conditions for decades. Why in the last month or two has their been a flood of immigrants?
Has gang violence got worse in that time? Unlikely, Honduras is the three-time murder capital of the world, thanks to lovely Tegucigalpa.
My logic is that someone in DC has been encouraging immigrants in recent months to come here.

I'm not going to spend several posts arguing this issue, my thoughts are already laid out. I think it is important however in the future to provide citations for claims being made.

[Cobra]

I hate to be simple, but..

Isn't America is full of descendants of the people that crossed the border and made it what it is by busting their ass and increasing GDP while lowering costs.

So if someone crosses today and busts their ass, especially for lower wages, I think I'm willing to pay a premium for that. I think I'm okay with this. I'd rather have a mexican guy with a good attitude detail my car than some minimum wage dude that skipped college when he could have gone.

People love to scream about their money being wasted on welfare but what about the benefit everyone gets from the lowering of market prices by cheap labor that these people provide.

Unless someone can provide me a true, non-political cost/benefit analysis that the benefit gained from tightening up illegal immigration is higher than the cost savings foregone, I think I'll stick to this.

Honestly, I don't know enough to have a political opinion because I don't have the information. That's why I don't bust one out of nowhere.

Is anyone else willing to admit the limitations of their knowledge before coming up with a political opinion on the subject?

[maxmueller]

America has a Hispanic problem. Europe has a Muslim/Arab problem. You pick your poison. The electric chair or the lethal injection. No country in the Western world is immune. I seriously need to stop working so hard knowing where my tax dollars are going.

[Alpharius]

(07-16-2014 08:41 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  

Now you just sound misinformed.

First of all, we're not worried about these immigrants taking our jobs as individuals, rather we are concerned about the well being of Americans who are blue collar.

You say illegal immigrants can't get welfare, but guess what, if that American loses his job to an illegal immigrant he is going to go on welfare, which will still cost the taxpayers money.

And on that note, you're not entirely right:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/polit.../12594927/

Obama asked for $3.7 billion for this flood of immigrants, a lot of which is for food and clothing.

Also, those countries in central America have been in poor conditions for decades. Why in the last month or two has their been a flood of immigrants?
Has gang violence got worse in that time? Unlikely, Honduras is the three-time murder capital of the world, thanks to lovely Tegucigalpa.
My logic is that someone in DC has been encouraging immigrants in recent months to come here.

I'm not going to spend several posts arguing this issue, my thoughts are already laid out. I think it is important however in the future to provide citations for claims being made.

I could be misinformed. It's been seven years since I lived and did research in impoverished communities full of violence, despair, and once and again deported immigrants in Central America. In that time I'm sure issues of development, immigration, and violence in those area have changed. However I'd argue that they've largely changed for the worse.

There wasn't a US State Department travel warning for El Salvador when I was there due to a ridiculously high crime rate. Mind you, when I was there it was hard to get a cab after dark due to the fear of crime. The level of violence is worse there now than during their civil war. You know, the civil war that even saw American nuns get killed.

I did spend quite a bit of time in Guatemala, and the level of violence there is higher than it was during their 36 year civil war. I haven't been there recently, but when I hear the phrase, "En Guatemala, la vida no vale nada" (In Guatemala, life is worth nothing) I have to side on agreeing.

To be fair, I didn't spend much time in Honduras, but the level of violence is even worse there than in other countries. I don't blame people for sending their kids away. I would, too.

These are kids fleeing in fear of their lives. Sending them back might be a death sentence. They obviously can't work now, but give them a fair chance and they just might take the opportunity they're being given and do more than sit around with it.

Obama did ask for $3.7billion, of which $1.1 billion goes to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, $433 million to Customs and Border Protection, $64 million for the Department of Justice, $300 million to the State Department and $1.8 billion to the Department of Health and Human Services. While Obama certainly has his faults, this seems pretty reasonable to me. He even sent his right hand man to tell people personally to not send their kids north.

Also, notice how none goes to the Department of Agriculture which handles the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, commonly known as food stamps/EBT. Nor is any allocated to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, thus no long term subsidized housing. Undocumented immigrants in this country have to rise and grind every day to make it happen, and no matter how successful you are there's always a chance you'll get sent back.

I'll admit, however, that I could be interpreting this wrong. Every link above could very well be a lie perpetuated by Obama himself written to fool me, you, and everyone in between. I've also never competed with an undocumented worker for a shitty low wage, manual labor job, so maybe it is hard out there if that's where someone is at - I personally wouldn't know and haven't read up on it, so I can't say. I also should admit I am pretty biased. My great grandfather came to this country illegally. He came from Ireland, got turned away at Ellis Island. Went to Canada, and snuck into North Dakota.