[Veloce]

(07-17-2014 01:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I love how everyone recites media talking points about illegals being these hardworking people doing all of these terrible jobs no one else can do.

It's not a media talking point. It's common rhetoric propagated by people like myself that is based in real-life experience.

It's not enough to close the borders and cut off illegal workers.

The work ethic in this country has to change. We're being fed this ideal of 24/7 comfort and god forbid anyone does some tough manual labor or something that requires sacrificing your ego.

For the sake of my argument, I'm going to lump legal/illegal immigrants into one category, because at the end of the day it's still a foreigner taking American jobs.

Whether it's an Indian kid taking IT jobs, or Filipinos taking nursing jobs, or Mexicans taking hospitality and construction jobs, this dynamic exists because we've created it. Our economy is DEPENDENT on immigrant labor. So if you don't like it, then go out there and force every fertile woman to have 3 babies and make sure those kids grow up with a strong work ethic, because we are in a global labor market and if you're not willing to work harder than the next guy then you're out of a job.

I've made this point before and I'll make it again: by FAR, the largest employer of immigrants are private households. This is a dynamic that is not unique to the U.S. In many countries on earth, it's normal to have a maid or caretaker from some dirt-poor country help out with the chores, in a scenario that benefits both the homeowner and the worker. If anything, this suits the Libertarian political philosophy quite nicely: I'm going to hire someone to do some work for me and pay them directly, under the table, without any government official knowing about it. Oh, so you deprive the poor government of their payroll tax? Not contributing to invading other countries or Baby Boomer social security? Fuck them.

Our unemployment rate isn't due to lack of jobs. Look on any job listing in any city on Craigslist. There are thousands and thousands of jobs out there, and most of them pay considerably more than minimum wage. The job market is alive and well, I'm happy to report. So who's hungry for it? Who's willing to put their nose to the grindstone and get a paycheck? Because judging by the statistics, it's not native-born workers.

There are exactly twice as many foreign-born cooks as native-born cooks. That's only one layer to the story. Native-born cooks can mostly be found in two places: either fast food jobs (teenagers getting their first job, summer job, etc) or high end, fine dining restaurants. That leaves a shitload of jobs in the middle. Hotels, chain restaurants, cruise lines, cafeterias, hospitals. Peek your head into any Olive Garden, Applebee's, or sports bar. Chances are the chef is white, and his cooks are all latino. While most white kids are paying $50K to go to cooking school and be the next Top Chef, chasing some delusion of grandeur, Jose, Juan, and Jorge are in back running the kitchen and cranking out 300 covers.

Look at construction. Drive by any Home Depot and you can hire a team of mercenaries to add on a room to your house for a fraction of the cost as hiring a legitimate contractor. Hell that same contractor probably uses the same guys. These guys wait, in packs of 30, 40, 50, soliciting on the street for construction work. Where are the white guys doing this? Where do you see any native-born workers that are THIS hungry to work? The only white guys I see on the street are standing in $100 sneakers and holding up a cardboard sign asking for free handouts.

The division of labor in restaurants makes a good metaphor: Look at the hostess, waiters, manager, and chef. Most likely, all native-born. Now look at the busboys, runners, cooks, and dishwasher. Most likely, foreign-born. Before you jump in with "Well if they paid a living wage that would change." I've known busboys that make $150 per shift on top of their hourly rate, and that's for a 6 hour shift. And yet, they are almost always foreign-born. Explain that to me.

There are more foreign-born registered nurses than native-born. My grandpa that just passed away was being cared for by a Filipino guy, really nice guy too. The median salary for nurses is like $60K/year. Not a living wage?

These aren't media talking points. There's a serious problem with American work ethic. We produce some of the most brilliant minds and innovations, but when it comes to manual labor or otherwise hard work it simply isn't there.

The conventional conservative talking point is, "Well, thanks to inflation our minimum wage is nowhere near a living wage, so that's why young people aren't wiling to take those jobs." It is a somewhat valid point; minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $10.74/hour in 2013 dollars. I don't know that too many young people today are going to bust their ass for $10.74/hr. I made that much in high school. Point being, there are many, many jobs out there that offer a decent living wage, at least $40K/year, that are being scooped up by foreign born immigrants instead of native born citizens.

Edit: On top of all that, illegal immigration is DOWN from the previous decade. This anecdote about putting these kids up in 5 star settings is stupid, I agree, but that's our government for you. But protesting illegal immigration/amnesty is ridiculous, believe me there are far bigger fish to fry.

[NY Digital]

Sure, the 1st generation immigrants are hard-working.

They usually send all of their unreported income back home.
Also, their kids aren't hard working at all. They usually end up on government benefits. The girls usually pop out 1 or 2 kids by the age of 20. And the government pays them.

[Chemical O]

(07-17-2014 01:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I love how everyone recites media talking points about illegals being these hardworking people doing all of these terrible jobs no one else can do.

So laughable.

Illegals take jobs because they work under minimum wage. American's cannot work under minimum wage laws or else the employer risks jail time. Thus it's false to say Americans wouldn't work at illegal wages. There are plenty of disparate American citizens would be more than happy to send their kids to work for 5 bucks an hour. When I was 14 my mother got me a job washing dishes for 5 bucks an hour. I was happy to get my thirty dollars at the end of the day.

Next, illegals aren't doing difficult work. In fact, as the work of building houses, fixing toilets, and other low-skilled labor becomes automated, these illegals are also going to be out of a job. And then there will be just more poors leaching off the welfare system.

And Osiris, guess what, every illegal in America gets welfare, as long as they are a woman or a child. The men also can walk into an ER room and they also must be taken care of. Illegals are also fat and live generally unhealthy lifestyles because they work in horrendous working conditions, which means they will need more trips to the doctor.

Illegal immigration, no matter how you look at it, will make everyone in this country poor. If left unchecked our standards of living will decline down to third world levels.

But none of this shit really matters because America is going bankrupt and no one is going to feed the illegals when the welfare checks stop.

Yes, Samseu, i know you know so many Americans looking for work under the minimum wage. Haha. That is so laughable it's comic. Americans want the minimum wage raised, not lowered. Last i remember some states are pushing for 15 bucks an hour.
And, yes even more funny, you think the robots (automation) will start dry walling, cleaning toilets, taking care of babies, or that illegals wont adapt when the robots do take their jobs? No, of course you know better, they will all sit around and collect welfare. Of course.

All the illegals I know, real people, not the ones you read about in your propaganda, are scared shitless to go the ER, or report crimes, or anything that will bring them on the radar. Yes, they call 911, when accidents happen, or when they or their kids are very sick, but you think will bankrupt america? seriously?

[It_is_my_time]

(07-17-2014 12:07 PM)Chemical O Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I love how everyone recites media talking points about illegals being these hardworking people doing all of these terrible jobs no one else can do.

So laughable.

Illegals take jobs because they work under minimum wage. American's cannot work under minimum wage laws or else the employer risks jail time. Thus it's false to say Americans wouldn't work at illegal wages. There are plenty of disparate American citizens would be more than happy to send their kids to work for 5 bucks an hour. When I was 14 my mother got me a job washing dishes for 5 bucks an hour. I was happy to get my thirty dollars at the end of the day.

Next, illegals aren't doing difficult work. In fact, as the work of building houses, fixing toilets, and other low-skilled labor becomes automated, these illegals are also going to be out of a job. And then there will be just more poors leaching off the welfare system.

And Osiris, guess what, every illegal in America gets welfare, as long as they are a woman or a child. The men also can walk into an ER room and they also must be taken care of. Illegals are also fat and live generally unhealthy lifestyles because they work in horrendous working conditions, which means they will need more trips to the doctor.

Illegal immigration, no matter how you look at it, will make everyone in this country poor. If left unchecked our standards of living will decline down to third world levels.

But none of this shit really matters because America is going bankrupt and no one is going to feed the illegals when the welfare checks stop.

Yes, Samseu, i know you know so many Americans looking for work under the minimum wage. Haha. That is so laughable it's comic. Americans want the minimum wage raised, not lowered. Last i remember some states are pushing for 15 bucks an hour.
And, yes even more funny, you think the robots (automation) will start dry walling, cleaning toilets, taking care of babies, or that illegals wont adapt when the robots do take their jobs? No, of course you know better, they will all sit around and collect welfare. Of course.

All the illegals I know, real people, not the ones you read about in your propaganda, are scared shitless to go the ER, or report crimes, or anything that will bring them on the radar. Yes, they call 911, when accidents happen, or when they or their kids are very sick, but you think will bankrupt america? seriously?

They will not bankrupt the USA by themselves, but they are adding to the growing economic crisis. They are a strain on us economically.

If we didn't pay people to not work, so that politicians could buy their votes, and instead at least made people work for welfare, then we wouldn't need all the immigrants to do these jobs.

Instead we have more people out of the work force since before it became normal for women to work outside the house. Many of them sucking off the govt. teet. And then you add in, how ever many more illegal aliens to these numbers, and it is only a matter of time.

Even the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) who is a non-partisan organization, is saying our debt is out of control and we are in serious trouble.

As bad as things are right now for young men in the USA, and obviously they are bad or we would not be spending our time trying to escape it by visiting great places like this forum, it is going to get A LOT worse in the next few years.

[scorpion]

Is there anyone here who thinks that Singapore should allow unrestricted immigration from America?

Should every American who is dissatisfied with life in the U.S. be entitled to emigrate to Singapore to start a new life? Should they be granted housing and welfare benefits paid for by the government (aka the taxpayers) of Singapore? Does Singapore have a moral imperative to provide these materials benefits to every American who shows up and claims they are in need?

Do the countries of Europe have a moral obligation to allow unrestricted immigration from Africa? Are Africans entitled to access to the European welfare state with all of its benefits simply by showing up and claiming they are in need?

If you answered yes to these questions, then you must admit that national sovereignty no longer exists. If countries cannot control who crosses their borders and who has access to their government services, then the country itself is at risk. Imagine a private country club that required all members to pay $200 in monthly dues suddenly allowed anyone who showed up at the gate and claimed needy status full access to the club without paying anything. How long do you think the club would last after that? Who's going to keep paying his dues?

If you answered no to these questions, then please explain why the United States (and other Western countries) must bear the economic and cultural burden of allowing massive flows of immigrants into their borders, when other countries do not do this. Are Western countries simply not allowed the right to exist? Where is the great outcry for China, Brazil, Israel, Russia and other non-Western countries to open their borders and tax coffers to immigrants?

Why is it only majority white countries that must bow at the progressive altar of massive immigration?

[MidWest]

(07-17-2014 12:07 PM)Chemical O Wrote:  

All the illegals I know, real people, not the ones you read about in your propaganda, are scared shitless to go the ER, or report crimes, or anything that will bring them on the radar. Yes, they call 911, when accidents happen, or when they or their kids are very sick, but you think will bankrupt america? seriously?

Exactly, that is what I'm trying to say. All the people on this thread spewing nonsense without actually having any real life experience with these illegals are just taking the same page out of the Fox News book.

Illegal immigrants can't apply for government benefits, they just cant. I know many who have tried regardless if they have a US born child. My parents who are both illegal refused to go to the ER because they knew they wouldn't have any medical insurance or any government assistance.

[scorpion]

If you show up and my doorstep and claim you're homeless, do I have a moral obligation to provide you housing?

Suppose I do so out of the kindness of my heart, and word gets out about my generosity. The next week two more guys show up and give me the same sob story. Must I house them as well? Suppose I do.

Within a few months I'm basically running a boarding house, as more and more "homeless" people seek to take advantage of my generosity. My kitchen is a wreck, several of my valuable possessions are missing and I have to wait in a line to use my own bathroom.

Am I a paragon of morality or just an idiot?

[The Reactionary Tree]

(07-17-2014 12:21 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Is there anyone here who thinks that Singapore should allow unrestricted immigration from America?

Should every American who is dissatisfied with life in the U.S. be entitled to emigrate to Singapore to start a new life? Should they be granted housing and welfare benefits paid for by the government (aka the taxpayers) of Singapore? Does Singapore have a moral imperative to provide these materials benefits to every American who shows up and claims they are in need?

Do the countries of Europe have a moral obligation to allow unrestricted immigration from Africa? Are Africans entitled to access to the European welfare state with all of its benefits simply by showing up and claiming they are in need?

If you answered yes to these questions, then you must admit that national sovereignty no longer exists. If countries cannot control who crosses their borders and who has access to their government services, then the country itself is at risk. Imagine a private country club that required all members to pay $200 in monthly dues suddenly allowed anyone who showed up at the gate and claimed needy status full access to the club without paying anything. How long do you think the club would last after that? Who's going to keep paying his dues?

If you answered no to these questions, then please explain why the United States (and other Western countries) must bear the economic and cultural burden of allowing massive flows of immigrants into their borders, when other countries do not do this. Are Western countries simply not allowed the right to exist? Where is the great outcry for China, Brazil, Israel, Russia and other non-Western countries to open their borders and tax coffers to immigrants?

Why is it only majority white countries that must bow at the progressive altar of massive immigration?

Totally agree with you. Why is it that only Western countries should bear the burden of third world immigrants? Why not flood countries like Israel, Singapore, China, Japan, South Korea with Central Americans, Africans, and Arabs?

Anyone who has done some research about multiculturalism can see that it is a terrible idea. How are we getting enriched by inviting hostile outsiders within our borders?

I honestly do not care if a handful of them want to better their lives by washing dishes, mowing lawns or picking berries. There is a reason that Central America is a poor and an unsavory place to live. There is a reason that they have to put barbed wire around the highway signs in LA.

Mind you, we are also not just talking about plain ole immigration, this is an invasion of millions... not to mention a large portion of it is completely illegal.

[The Reactionary Tree]

[Chemical O]

(07-17-2014 12:21 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Is there anyone here who thinks that Singapore should allow unrestricted immigration from America?

Should every American who is dissatisfied with life in the U.S. be entitled to emigrate to Singapore to start a new life? Should they be granted housing and welfare benefits paid for by the government (aka the taxpayers) of Singapore? Does Singapore have a moral imperative to provide these materials benefits to every American who shows up and claims they are in need?

Do the countries of Europe have a moral obligation to allow unrestricted immigration from Africa? Are Africans entitled to access to the European welfare state with all of its benefits simply by showing up and claiming they are in need?

If you answered yes to these questions, then you must admit that national sovereignty no longer exists. If countries cannot control who crosses their borders and who has access to their government services, then the country itself is at risk. Imagine a private country club that required all members to pay $200 in monthly dues suddenly allowed anyone who showed up at the gate and claimed needy status full access to the club without paying anything. How long do you think the club would last after that? Who's going to keep paying his dues?

If you answered no to these questions, then please explain why the United States (and other Western countries) must bear the economic and cultural burden of allowing massive flows of immigrants into their borders, when other countries do not do this. Are Western countries simply not allowed the right to exist? Where is the great outcry for China, Brazil, Israel, Russia and other non-Western countries to open their borders and tax coffers to immigrants?

Why is it only majority white countries that must bow at the progressive altar of massive immigration?

Yes, every illegal who comes here gets a free house, free full healthcare, free everything.
Do you know any illegals who get all this shit? seriously?
Their kids get an education, yes, and guess what, their kids are Americans, born here, which The Constitutions says makes them citizens.
But maybe we should take that away from them, right?

[The Reactionary Tree]

(07-17-2014 01:04 PM)Chemical O Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 12:21 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Is there anyone here who thinks that Singapore should allow unrestricted immigration from America?

Should every American who is dissatisfied with life in the U.S. be entitled to emigrate to Singapore to start a new life? Should they be granted housing and welfare benefits paid for by the government (aka the taxpayers) of Singapore? Does Singapore have a moral imperative to provide these materials benefits to every American who shows up and claims they are in need?

Do the countries of Europe have a moral obligation to allow unrestricted immigration from Africa? Are Africans entitled to access to the European welfare state with all of its benefits simply by showing up and claiming they are in need?

If you answered yes to these questions, then you must admit that national sovereignty no longer exists. If countries cannot control who crosses their borders and who has access to their government services, then the country itself is at risk. Imagine a private country club that required all members to pay $200 in monthly dues suddenly allowed anyone who showed up at the gate and claimed needy status full access to the club without paying anything. How long do you think the club would last after that? Who's going to keep paying his dues?

If you answered no to these questions, then please explain why the United States (and other Western countries) must bear the economic and cultural burden of allowing massive flows of immigrants into their borders, when other countries do not do this. Are Western countries simply not allowed the right to exist? Where is the great outcry for China, Brazil, Israel, Russia and other non-Western countries to open their borders and tax coffers to immigrants?

Why is it only majority white countries that must bow at the progressive altar of massive immigration?

Yes, every illegal who comes here gets a free house, free full healthcare, free everything.
Do you know any illegals who get all this shit? seriously?
Their kids get an education, yes, and guess what, their kids are Americans, born here, which The Constitutions says makes them citizens.
But maybe we should take that away from them, right?

Yes we should. Deport their parents and give them a severance check. Send them back to their country of origin.

Birthright citizenship is the most retarded concept ever. Citizenship should be granted based on if your parents are citizens. Otherwise you should have to go through the naturalization process in order to earn your citizenship.

[NY Digital]

(07-17-2014 01:04 PM)Chemical O Wrote:  

Yes, every illegal who comes here gets a free house, free full healthcare, free everything.
Do you know any illegals who get all this shit? seriously?
Their kids get an education, yes, and guess what, their kids are Americans, born here, which The Constitutions says makes them citizens.
But maybe we should take that away from them, right?

Their parents aren't citizens though.

What they do is get pregnant before they cross the border and then cross and have the child on U.S. soil so they should automatically all be safe?

We can't deport just the family though cause who's going to take care of that damn baby?

Send them all back.

Edit: Better yet, don't let them come in the first place. Put the damn National Guard on high alert on our border to shoot warning shots followed by kill shots. That'll deter any further problems.

[speakeasy]

(07-17-2014 11:22 AM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

I love how everyone recites media talking points about illegals being these hardworking people doing all of these terrible jobs no one else can do.

It's not a media talking point. It's common rhetoric propagated by people like myself that is based in real-life experience.

It's not enough to close the borders and cut off illegal workers.

The work ethic in this country has to change. We're being fed this ideal of 24/7 comfort and god forbid anyone does some tough manual labor or something that requires sacrificing your ego.

For the sake of my argument, I'm going to lump legal/illegal immigrants into one category, because at the end of the day it's still a foreigner taking American jobs.

Whether it's an Indian kid taking IT jobs, or Filipinos taking nursing jobs, or Mexicans taking hospitality and construction jobs, this dynamic exists because we've created it. Our economy is DEPENDENT on immigrant labor. So if you don't like it, then go out there and force every fertile woman to have 3 babies and make sure those kids grow up with a strong work ethic, because we are in a global labor market and if you're not willing to work harder than the next guy then you're out of a job.

I've made this point before and I'll make it again: by FAR, the largest employer of immigrants are private households. This is a dynamic that is not unique to the U.S. In many countries on earth, it's normal to have a maid or caretaker from some dirt-poor country help out with the chores, in a scenario that benefits both the homeowner and the worker. If anything, this suits the Libertarian political philosophy quite nicely: I'm going to hire someone to do some work for me and pay them directly, under the table, without any government official knowing about it. Oh, so you deprive the poor government of their payroll tax? Not contributing to invading other countries or Baby Boomer social security? Fuck them.

Our unemployment rate isn't due to lack of jobs. Look on any job listing in any city on Craigslist. There are thousands and thousands of jobs out there, and most of them pay considerably more than minimum wage. The job market is alive and well, I'm happy to report. So who's hungry for it? Who's willing to put their nose to the grindstone and get a paycheck? Because judging by the statistics, it's not native-born workers.

There are exactly twice as many foreign-born cooks as native-born cooks. That's only one layer to the story. Native-born cooks can mostly be found in two places: either fast food jobs (teenagers getting their first job, summer job, etc) or high end, fine dining restaurants. That leaves a shitload of jobs in the middle. Hotels, chain restaurants, cruise lines, cafeterias, hospitals. Peek your head into any Olive Garden, Applebee's, or sports bar. Chances are the chef is white, and his cooks are all latino. While most white kids are paying $50K to go to cooking school and be the next Top Chef, chasing some delusion of grandeur, Jose, Juan, and Jorge are in back running the kitchen and cranking out 300 covers.

Look at construction. Drive by any Home Depot and you can hire a team of mercenaries to add on a room to your house for a fraction of the cost as hiring a legitimate contractor. Hell that same contractor probably uses the same guys. These guys wait, in packs of 30, 40, 50, soliciting on the street for construction work. Where are the white guys doing this? Where do you see any native-born workers that are THIS hungry to work? The only white guys I see on the street are standing in $100 sneakers and holding up a cardboard sign asking for free handouts.

The division of labor in restaurants makes a good metaphor: Look at the hostess, waiters, manager, and chef. Most likely, all native-born. Now look at the busboys, runners, cooks, and dishwasher. Most likely, foreign-born. Before you jump in with "Well if they paid a living wage that would change." I've known busboys that make $150 per shift on top of their hourly rate, and that's for a 6 hour shift. And yet, they are almost always foreign-born. Explain that to me.

There are more foreign-born registered nurses than native-born. My grandpa that just passed away was being cared for by a Filipino guy, really nice guy too. The median salary for nurses is like $60K/year. Not a living wage?

These aren't media talking points. There's a serious problem with American work ethic. We produce some of the most brilliant minds and innovations, but when it comes to manual labor or otherwise hard work it simply isn't there.

The conventional conservative talking point is, "Well, thanks to inflation our minimum wage is nowhere near a living wage, so that's why young people aren't wiling to take those jobs." It is a somewhat valid point; minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $10.74/hour in 2013 dollars. I don't know that too many young people today are going to bust their ass for $10.74/hr. I made that much in high school. Point being, there are many, many jobs out there that offer a decent living wage, at least $40K/year, that are being scooped up by foreign born immigrants instead of native born citizens.

Edit: On top of all that, illegal immigration is DOWN from the previous decade. This anecdote about putting these kids up in 5 star settings is stupid, I agree, but that's our government for you. But protesting illegal immigration/amnesty is ridiculous, believe me there are far bigger fish to fry.

Like you mentioned, Americans are not having kids. But see a major problem is that immigrants working in these low paying jobs ARE having kids. And they will be poor and those kids will then be in public school system costing $10,000 a year k-12 and will have to get school lunch and maybe food stamps and will be eligible for medicaid because those parents shitty jobs have no benefits. They aren't property owners so they aren't praying property tax. So what this means is you have an entire class of people who take more in tax payer resources than they pay in taxes. This is not a sustainable situation.

[scorpion]

Chemical O Wrote:

Yes, every illegal who comes here gets a free house, free full healthcare, free everything.
Do you know any illegals who get all this shit? seriously?
Their kids get an education, yes, and guess what, their kids are Americans, born here, which The Constitutions says makes them citizens.
But maybe we should take that away from them, right?

So why do you think they're coming here if they don't get anything out of it? For the weather? Do you think they're stupid or something? I don't. I think they're behaving perfectly rationally: they are taking advantage of a system that allows them to enjoy the prosperity of the U.S. for themselves and their children.

The question is, why should the U.S. allow this? Was our country somehow worse off in the 1950s before massive amounts of Hispanic immigration began? Well, no, actually we were pretty much better off in every way: economically, culturally, socially.

We do not need Mexican immigrants, sorry. The U.S. isn't going to grind to a halt if we have to find slightly more expensive ways to mow our lawns, wash our dishes and clean our hotels.

As for ending birthright citizenship, I think that's a fantastic idea. It was never intended to be abused the way it is now.

[NY Digital]

Every non-hispanic immigrant has had to come here over the great Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, while being clever enough to over-extend their visa stays, clever enough to apply and get the visa in the first place, and clever enough to be successful in America to get green cards and eventually citizenship.

The current illegals cross a lightly-defended 2,000 mile border, with little to no education, without any necessity for a high IQ to cross said border.

They create their own communities and refuse to learn English. They have higher crime rates and lower literacy levels.

Their daughters are promiscuous cum sluts that pop out several kids with no father nearby, getting benefits from the government for having said children. Those children are f*ked in the head due to the shitty community they grow up in, the already low IQ level, no father, and welfare benefits.

If you can't understand the difference between healthy immigration and South American immigration, I don't know what to say.

[MidWest]

For the last time people. Illegal Immigrants CANNOT get government assistance or welfare. Welfare is only available for U.S. citizens. How do I know this? Because I actually have family members who are illegal.

[Alan Partridge]

(07-17-2014 01:42 PM)MidWest Wrote:  




For the last time people. Illegal Immigrants CANNOT get government assistance or welfare. Welfare is only available for U.S. citizens. How do I know this? Because I actually have family members who are illegal.

Illegals still get Medicare benefits, but feds vow crackdown, $70M savings

Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare

[It_is_my_time]

(07-17-2014 01:48 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:42 PM)MidWest Wrote:  




For the last time people. Illegal Immigrants CANNOT get government assistance or welfare. Welfare is only available for U.S. citizens. How do I know this? Because I actually have family members who are illegal.

Illegals still get Medicare benefits, but feds vow crackdown, $70M savings

Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare

They get billions in tax refunds as well...

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/05/tax-cre...mmigrants/

[MidWest]

(07-17-2014 01:23 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

So why do you think they're coming here if they don't get anything out of it? For the weather? Do you think they're stupid or something? I don't. I think they're behaving perfectly rationally: they are taking advantage of a system that allows them to enjoy the prosperity of the U.S. for themselves and their children.

Bro, illegal immigrants are not coming here to be on welfare. Most illegals if not all are coming here with one purpose and one purpose only. WORK. Obviously since there is no such thing as "welfare" for illegals since they aren't even eligible for it, they have to find some kind of work to feed their families. Many hope to one day go back to their home country since like you said, the weather in Mexico is great and plus the food is better. Ask any illegal Mexican and almost all of them will tell you that that they want to go back one day. They take advantage of the work opportunity that employers here give them.

[MidWest]

(07-17-2014 01:20 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

They aren't property owners so they aren't praying property tax.

With all due respect Speakeasy, but my parents are both illegal and own a home and yes pay property taxes, so yeah.

[Alan Partridge]

(07-17-2014 01:59 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:23 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

So why do you think they're coming here if they don't get anything out of it? For the weather? Do you think they're stupid or something? I don't. I think they're behaving perfectly rationally: they are taking advantage of a system that allows them to enjoy the prosperity of the U.S. for themselves and their children.

Bro, illegal immigrants are not coming here to be on welfare. Most illegals if not all are coming here with one purpose and one purpose only. WORK. Obviously since there is no such thing as "welfare" for illegals since they aren't even eligible for it, they have to find some kind of work to feed their families. Many hope to one day go back to their home country since like you said, the weather in Mexico is great and plus the food is better. Ask any illegal Mexican and almost all of them will tell you that that they want to go back one day. They take advantage of the work opportunity that employers here give them.

1. Work under the books. Don't pay income tax, social security tax and FICA.

2. Collect as much welfare(free schooling, free breakast, lunches, healthcare, rent subsidies, etc).

What kind of illegals are your relatives, bro? Maybe they didn't qualify because their IQs are above 65 and the government is not sure that they'll automatically vote Democrat for life?

[MidWest]

(07-17-2014 01:48 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:42 PM)MidWest Wrote:  




For the last time people. Illegal Immigrants CANNOT get government assistance or welfare. Welfare is only available for U.S. citizens. How do I know this? Because I actually have family members who are illegal.

Illegals still get Medicare benefits, but feds vow crackdown, $70M savings

Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare

10 myths about immigration

I actually have real life experiences and have family members who are illegal. I can assure you that illegal immigrants know that they wont get welfare so therefore wont bother.

[Alan Partridge]

(07-17-2014 02:08 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:48 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:42 PM)MidWest Wrote:  




For the last time people. Illegal Immigrants CANNOT get government assistance or welfare. Welfare is only available for U.S. citizens. How do I know this? Because I actually have family members who are illegal.

Illegals still get Medicare benefits, but feds vow crackdown, $70M savings

Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare

10 myths about immigration

I actually have real life experiences and have family members who are illegal. I can assure you that illegal immigrants know that they wont get welfare so therefore wont bother.

Really, the Washington times is just making shit up, huh?

Which country were you born in?

[It_is_my_time]

(07-17-2014 02:12 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 02:08 PM)MidWest Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:48 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:42 PM)MidWest Wrote:  




For the last time people. Illegal Immigrants CANNOT get government assistance or welfare. Welfare is only available for U.S. citizens. How do I know this? Because I actually have family members who are illegal.

Illegals still get Medicare benefits, but feds vow crackdown, $70M savings

Most Illegal Immigrant Families Collect Welfare

10 myths about immigration

I actually have real life experiences and have family members who are illegal. I can assure you that illegal immigrants know that they wont get welfare so therefore wont bother.

Really, the Washington times is just making shit up, huh?

I'm not even gonna waste my time with your link. It's a bunch of propaganda.

Add to it the billions in tax refunds they get by using an ITIN number.

So they tax our tax dollars, give it to people who are not even here legally, and they send it over seas.

All the while our economy is imploding and people are finding it hard just to feed their families as costs explode and job opportunities disappear.

Our govt. has to get some kind of handle on this, or it could get ugly.

[Veloce]

You guys are talking about immigration as if it is the problem. It is the symptom.

Think bigger guys.

Noone here is advocating opening our borders and creating a free-for-all globalized society. So stop presenting that as if it's a viable scenario that some of us are taking seriously. Be a little more realistic.

We're in a situation where the U.S. economy NEEDS IMMIGRANTS. Blaming our immigration policy is 10 steps too late. Liberal immigration policy is what politicians must adopt to delay the inevitable; a lack of U.S. growth.

You don't have to explain the evils of immigration. I and everyone else here get it. What you guys are failing to do is provide alternatives.

Look at our younger generation that is entering the workforce. They will inherit our production and our debt. Let's start looking at their incentives:

-What incentive do they have to work when they can live at home with their helicopter parents that have told them to feel good no matter what?

-What incentive do they have to work hard when they can relax and play videogames?

-What incentive do they have to build material wealth if they see it as an empty pursuit anyway?

-What incentive to men have to build wealth to attract women if it doesn't attract women?

-What incentive to people have to build wealth and build a family if they grew up in a divorced household?

There are no more incentives. Hell, half of us on these boards are on a mission to build enough wealth or location independence just so we can get the fuck out of the country, and you know we're not the only ones.

And you guys talking about immigration as if that's the issue at hand? Ha! The only benefit I can see to locking our borders is to simply quicken our economic downfall so that maybe, just maybe, we can mobilize an entire generation to get off their asses and contribute to this country.