[KorbenDallas]

Incentives Have Consequences


It's remarkable that women find it so difficult to understand that feminism combined with an anti-male legal system have rendered marriage increasingly unpalatable to men:

Quote:

So last night I bated my breath and asked my three eldest sons, all over 21, the following outright: if a girl in her 20s wanted to get married, have kids and give up work, would it put you off dating her?

Tom, as the eldest, probably the one who should be most immediately considering family life, baulked at the very question. He’s been with his Spanish girlfriend, Estephania, for four years, and children aren’t even on their radar.
Olivia's son Will, 27, who is an author, has no immediate plans to get married and have children

Olivia's son Will, 27, who is an author, has no immediate plans to get married and have children

‘I hate that word “marriage”,’ he told me. ‘Marriage belongs to another era. I prefer the word “partnership” because that’s what it should be, a partnership of equals right from the start. Both man and woman should contribute financially to the home, and both should do domestic work.

‘What really annoys me is when the woman has children and somehow thinks it’s all right to skive and stay at home with them.

‘The baby should be sent to a nursery as soon as possible and the woman should get back to work. Aren’t women supposed to have the same aspirations in their careers as men? Then they should prove it and not expect a whole year’s maternity leave. It’s scandalous!’

His brother, Will, an author, had an even more pragmatic view. Yes, he would be put off dating a woman sprinting towards marriage and children.

He’s written a book, The Romantic Economist, about the correlation between love and market forces, which, he says, shows the gulf between the sexes on this issue

‘When you’re 30 and you’re female, your biological clock is ticking loudly and you will settle for less than perfect. That decreases your value in the market place. Unfortunately, there are simply more of you about.

‘But a man of 30 doesn’t even have to think of getting married. He’s still looking for his ideal.’

Will was clearly referring to himself. With no biological clock ticking, he’s taking his time to settle down. And while he is dating again, he declared that a family is not even on his horizon. Thankfully, my middle son, Ben, 26, is more of a romantic. He is setting up a gallery with his partner of a year, Karina, 29. ‘If you love someone, and they want children, even if it turns your life upside down, isn’t it worth it?’ he said.

But Ben is very much the exception. His friends tease him remorselessly for being so in love. ‘He’s not done his maths,’ they tell me. ‘We can’t even look after ourselves, let alone a family. We’ve got student debts to pay off. Some of us are still living with our parents!’

Paging Dr. Helen... The young men are not scared, they are on strike. Trying to browbeat them out of their perfectly rational position is unlikely to be effective. This is the consequence of systemic changes, and the solution must be systemic as well.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

It seems that they dislike marriage because the women they are with are not feminist enough - not because of the legal system or something like that. This seems like wishful thinking to me. If anything, this article is quite scary - men being super-concerned about "equal contribution"? WTF?

[vinman]

All of these guys sound like they are still deeply entrenched in Camp Blue.

[heavy]

Feminism hurts women from all sides. We know Red Pillers and natural alphas understand why not to get married and be tied down to a woman (certainly not when you're young).

As Handsome Creepy Eel points out, this post simply shows the subsequent effect from betas. It's happening from Blue Pillers and less alpha dudes. They're just following society.

Alphas lead and stop marrying. Women and betas follow.

[player]

I've spent quite a lot of time promoting red pill views to young men - who are increasingly receptive.

There is definitely serious trouble brewing for women. Women start the marriage strike by not wanting to get married between 16-24. Through their continued rejection, friendzoning and flaking on young men, women are seriously increasing the chances of these men taking the red pill.

The Internet has been a game-changer. Before men might compare notes with a few friends. Now we can compare notes with men all over the world - and young men are increasingly vocal about not wanting to marry a used up, careerist slut.

Feminists will reap what they sow.

[Renzy]

(06-25-2014 11:01 AM)player Wrote:  

The Internet has been a game-changer. Before men might compare notes with a few friends. Now we can compare notes with men all over the world

I've always wondered if this is a significant (if perhaps unconscious) part of why feminists are so vehemently against any sort of all-male space. It's because they know that were men to get together and compare notes, validate each other's experiences with women, etc. it would represent a significant threat to the cultural narrative that feminists push.

The internet has been a game changer because, while male-only spaces can't happen in the physical world any more for legal reasons, you can't stop men from establishing male-only spaces online and coming up with their own framework for explaining relations between the sexes. And it's free from any sort of "female supervision" derailing the discussion, which is likely why it's been able to progress so far.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-25-2014 10:49 AM)vinman Wrote:  

All of these guys sound like they are still deeply entrenched in Camp Blue.

I agree, if I was asked the question "if you met a girl that was in her early 20's (lets say 21), ready to get married, stop working and have kids, would that put you off of dating her"

My response would be "if she is NOT college educated, I would date her"

1. a household with equal labor and equal careers is a struggle for power
2. a household where the kids are raised by daycare is a disservice to the kids.

My caveats would include, am I ready to settle down aka, am I also 21 or 31? and does she spend her free time on anything besides facebook, shopping and drinking?

[Deluge]

(06-25-2014 11:16 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

My response would be "if she is NOT college educated, I would date her"

Keep in mind that means more than doubling your chances of getting divorced.



Yet it's these same well-educated women who are most likely to be feminist. The underlying factor for all of this is probably IQ. Find an intelligent and/or college edcated woman who is not a feminist or a careerist and is submissive and you've found the sweet spot.

[heavy]

I almost put "Scary world for women", but let's put this in perspective by showing different situations...(warning, tangent)

1. Chic's dad chooses her husband. She's never really attracted to him but he provides resources and her kids. India 1982.

2. Chic marries alpha teenage sweetheart. They end up married forever, but she gets beat once a week when her husband is drunk or mad. But she still has sex with him in a passionate hate/love sorta weird thing. 'merica 1872.

3. Same scenario as #2 but she's not attracted to him at all. She uses sex to keep peace and maintain status quo. Or really any society where women depends on a man for safety.

4. Chic marries alpha guy because he's hot. Her dad doesn't necessarily approve but it's her choice. She loves him, but he's alpha so cheats on her. They stay together and she still fucks him in a passionate love/hate way...because he's alpha. 'merica 1962.

5. Same as #4 but he leaves her. She's fucked financially until another guy comes along. She's still more passionate (love/hate) about her ex than her current husband, but her current husband provides for her and loves her. She doesn't get the attention she used to because she's older, so she's a little crazy and bitchy.

6. Chic rides the alpha cock until she's 28 and realizes it's time to settle down. Settles for a nice guy. She ends up taking half their stuff when she files for divorce 10 years later because she fell in love. Her new bf ends up cheating on her and she now lives alone with a dog and three cats.

7. Chic locks down successful cock when she's young. Ten years and two kids in she cheats on alpha, files for divorce, then goes through 4 bf's in 8 years...or just uses vibrator every night, whatever.

8. Chic marries top guy in the village. Village is plundered, men murdered, Chic is raped by William Wallace. She lost her husband and 15 year old oldest son the horrible tragedy, but in a weird love/hate way she's attracted to Bill W.

I fail to see much silver lining in being a woman in any scenario. Some will read this and think I'm hating on women or saying they're crazy or useless. That's not the point. It's not about women. It's about masculinity. What make masculinity attractive is power, aloofness, indifference, intrigue, fame, influence, power, options, power... It's what makes men inherently distanced and difficult to have a relationship with (alpha males over time are narcissistic psychopaths...think genghis khan). I digress

[Apollo]

More and more of these children of divorce are witnessing both the factors that played into the divorce and the inequity of the ramifications/consequences of that action on their parents to know that marriage is a straight up raw deal for the man.

I have two friends who are adamantly anti-marriage for these reasons alone. Their mothers played the "I'm not happy" card, broke up 15+ year marriages, made the day-to-day of their kids lives a lot more difficult, and then took the house and more than half of the assets. The problem for the woman is...it's hard to peddle the he said/she said propaganda on your children when they are of a certain age that they can objectively judge these things for themselves. Suffice to say, among these two guys, they tell me that they've definitely lost respect for their mothers and that for them, marriage is completely off the table.

[KorbenDallas]

I think they are red pill, but are just using blue pill arguments as cover. I could be wrong though. Its happened before.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-25-2014 11:24 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 11:16 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

My response would be "if she is NOT college educated, I would date her"

Keep in mind that means more than doubling your chances of getting divorced.



Yet it's these same well-educated women who are most likely to be feminist. The underlying factor for all of this is probably IQ. Find an intelligent and/or college edcated woman who is not a feminist or a careerist and is submissive and you've found the sweet spot.

I think intelligence is a good indicator, as is the degree of self interest. Hopefully the 'free time' screen will catch that. My thoughts would be that a girl who was dumb as a bag of rocks, but spends her free time volunteering at church, an animal shelter, at the gym or playing rec league soccer would be better than an intelligent girl that spends her time at the mall shopping for an outfit so she can chase D at the bar that night. The latter spends her free time indulging herself, not something you want in a wife.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

"Olivia's son Will, 27, who is an author, has no immediate plans to get married and have children..."

"The baby should be sent to a nursery as soon as possible and the woman should get back to work. Aren’t women supposed to have the same aspirations in their careers as men? Then they should prove it and not expect a whole year’s maternity leave. It’s scandalous!"

Any man who seeks to warehouse his own child in the name of money is not a man at all.

He's a robot programmed by a school system more bent on social engineering than learning.

UPDATE: Thanks for the tip KorbenDallas. This isn't Alpha Game's son, but the kid of a Daily Mail columnist. No surprise there.

[Deluge]

(06-25-2014 12:04 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

I think intelligence is a good indicator, as is the degree of self interest. Hopefully the 'free time' screen will catch that. My thoughts would be that a girl who was dumb as a bag of rocks, but spends her free time volunteering at church, an animal shelter, at the gym or playing rec league soccer would be better than an intelligent girl that spends her time at the mall shopping for an outfit so she can chase D at the bar that night. The latter spends her free time indulging herself, not something you want in a wife.

True, and smart girls are more likely to volunteer in the first place. It's relatively rare, but all the girls I know who do regular volunteer or charity work (once off "voluntourism" trips to the 3rd world don't count...) have been college girls.

[KorbenDallas]

It's not his kid. Here's a link to the actual article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl...ently.html

[SpiderKing]

-100% risk
if you never get married.

[Samseau]

(06-25-2014 11:24 AM)Deluge Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 11:16 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

My response would be "if she is NOT college educated, I would date her"

Keep in mind that means more than doubling your chances of getting divorced.



Yet it's these same well-educated women who are most likely to be feminist. The underlying factor for all of this is probably IQ. Find an intelligent and/or college edcated woman who is not a feminist or a careerist and is submissive and you've found the sweet spot.

The reason these charts suck is because they fail to take into account that more education = less marriage. So even though educated women are less likely to divorce, what good is it if only 30-50% of educated women actually get married and have kids? That's death spiral.

And the reason these women do not get divorced as much is probably because college educated women are most likely to snag a high-earning beta male who will bend to their every need.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

The problem with these graphs isn't that they're not true - they absolutely are - but that they don't mention number of previous partners, which is bigger than all of these 6 factors combined in predicting the longevity of a marriage.

[RawGod]

I used to be a libertarian/pro-capitalist, but it looks like these three young men are the result. They are like milking cows for the government and for corporations. Pay tax, consume. Put your family third, have no cultural identity. And they will proudly admit it. Truly frightening brainwashing.

[Akula]

(06-25-2014 10:37 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

It seems that they dislike marriage because the women they are with are not feminist enough - not because of the legal system or something like that. This seems like wishful thinking to me. If anything, this article is quite scary - men being super-concerned about "equal contribution"? WTF?

Yeah that's what I thought too. The millenials totally buy into the Feminist crap and seem to have no clue about traditional male-feminine roles (you know the ones that existed for oh 50,000 years or so). So it seems they are coming to the right conclusion but for all the wrong reasons.

(06-25-2014 12:32 PM)SpiderKing Wrote:  

-100% risk
if you never get married.

True but with Common Law marriage rules (which I think are 7 years in the US but only 1-2 in Canada depending on the Province) you are still somewhat screwed as a man (you know bc men are always the bad guys in divorce scenarios). From what I understand if you have a kid and were living with the woman it can be almost as bad as if you were married.

[gettingthere88]

(06-25-2014 11:01 AM)player Wrote:  

I've spent quite a lot of time promoting red pill views to young men - who are increasingly receptive.

There is definitely serious trouble brewing for women. Women start the marriage strike by not wanting to get married between 16-24. Through their continued rejection, friendzoning and flaking on young men, women are seriously increasing the chances of these men taking the red pill.

The Internet has been a game-changer. Before men might compare notes with a few friends. Now we can compare notes with men all over the world - and young men are increasingly vocal about not wanting to marry a used up, careerist slut.

Feminists will reap what they sow.

Completely aggre with you man. If women keep excerisising their freedom by hopping from one cock to the next (which they will) men won;t be putting a ring on it. Even if they do 'love' it.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-25-2014 02:43 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

The problem with these graphs isn't that they're not true - they absolutely are - but that they don't mention number of previous partners, which is bigger than all of these 6 factors combined in predicting the longevity of a marriage.

Exactly - plus they do not take into account age - a 34 YRO marrying a good Beta provider is less likely to leave him at age 40 with 2 kids - plus most hit the Wall plus the Fat-Wall hard. Those statistics also account the huge baby-boomer-part of the populations - even the 1980s were good times gone by. Let us see statistics from 2000-2013. I predict mayhem and tears.

[DJ-Matt]

(06-25-2014 10:27 AM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

my middle son, Ben, 26, is more of a romantic. He is setting up a gallery with his partner of a year, Karina, 29.

Ditch that old bitch!

I'm not getting married until the laws change or people come up with a way to hide all the assets from a lawyer.

[polar]

(06-26-2014 05:36 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(06-25-2014 02:43 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

The problem with these graphs isn't that they're not true - they absolutely are - but that they don't mention number of previous partners, which is bigger than all of these 6 factors combined in predicting the longevity of a marriage.

Exactly - plus they do not take into account age - a 34 YRO marrying a good Beta provider is less likely to leave him at age 40 with 2 kids - plus most hit the Wall plus the Fat-Wall hard. Those statistics also account the huge baby-boomer-part of the populations - even the 1980s were good times gone by. Let us see statistics from 2000-2013. I predict mayhem and tears.

You guys are just afraid of strong, independent women. How else could they discover themselves if not by taking strange dick, six inches at a time?

That's not mileage, that's experience!

[Fighting888]

If you don't get married, you decrease your divorce risk by 100%.