[douglas]

(06-21-2014 12:36 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Interesting development here. ISIS is showing an unexpectedly advanced use of social media and marketing to get its message out there.

For example, they're mocking Michelle Obama with a hashtag campaign on Twitter:

http://rt.com/usa/167436-isis-twitter-mi...a-hashtag/

They are also using YouTube to recruit internationally, and ramping up the propaganda campaign:

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows...ernet.html

They have also managed to become a major force despite being relatively few in number. This article explains how:

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/20...hters.html

They even issue "annual reports" detailing operations, investments, and objectives.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-17...nvestment-

This is not your ordinary gang of rabble. There is major funding going on here from outside donors, a fanatical belief in victory, and a ruthless willingness to do what is necessary. There are lessons to be learned here and pondered.

Even though I loathe this type of organization, their experiences offer many lessons on how small, dedicated groups can influence major events. I think this subject is so important that I thought about making it a separate thread, but decided it might be better in the Iraq thread here.

Students of history and military affairs should take note, and draw their own conclusions. Small, dedicated organizations can accomplish big things with discipline, aggressiveness, militancy.

al baghdadi seems to have come up with a pretty smart strategy. if the US acts against ISIS, it is defacto helping Assad. Plus the iranian thingmakes US intervention that much more unpalatable. After the capture of mosul, they are actually self funding. Judging from the fact that US recon flights are from carrier aviation, the sunni neighbors of iraq do not want to play ball.

[Sp5]

(06-21-2014 01:42 AM)Glock Wrote:  

ISIS is a rag tag that would be crushed like a bug with little effort if the U.S. had even the smallest amount of motivation and will.

Unfortunately, the U.S. does not have even the smallest amount of motivation or will.

ISIS may just be the media/propaganda face. The real fighters are the same Sunni / Ba'athist diehards the Americans always fought in that area.

I doubt there were enough foreigners and salafi Iraqis to have the kind of effect they had.

[Libertas]

(06-20-2014 03:19 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  

Libertas's article is accurate in the depiction of the current crisis and the sectarian roots of it. But it's not so much that electoral democracy is futile in Iraq - Iraqis seemed to take to it well - it was that the elections did not mean much.

That was because Maliki was able to strip the power from both the parliament and the local government through legal maneuvers from an obedient Supreme Court. It would be like Obama taking the power from Congress to initiate legislation without his approval, and taking almost all of the budgets and lawmaking power of state governments.

So there were a lot of people all around Iraq who felt shut out and powerless.

Well, that's the point I'm trying to make. A stable democracy over the long term requires a certain respect for the rule of law and as Thomas Jefferson noted "the will of the majority to be rightful must be reasonable."

Democracies have very often quickly degenerated into authoritarian regimes. Here is no different. There's just no political culture of it there. Whether a stable one can emerge remains to be seen.

(06-21-2014 12:36 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Interesting development here. ISIS is showing an unexpectedly advanced use of social media and marketing to get its message out there.

For example, they're mocking Michelle Obama with a hashtag campaign on Twitter:

http://rt.com/usa/167436-isis-twitter-mi...a-hashtag/

They are also using YouTube to recruit internationally, and ramping up the propaganda campaign:

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows...ernet.html

They have also managed to become a major force despite being relatively few in number. This article explains how:

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/20...hters.html

They even issue "annual reports" detailing operations, investments, and objectives.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-17...nvestment-

This is not your ordinary gang of rabble. There is major funding going on here from outside donors, a fanatical belief in victory, and a ruthless willingness to do what is necessary. There are lessons to be learned here and pondered.

Even though I loathe this type of organization, their experiences offer many lessons on how small, dedicated groups can influence major events. I think this subject is so important that I thought about making it a separate thread, but decided it might be better in the Iraq thread here.

Students of history and military affairs should take note, and draw their own conclusions. Small, dedicated organizations can accomplish big things with discipline, aggressiveness, militancy.

Their YouTube videos are really horrifying. They're so well-done that it's in a way, darkly impressive. This is not your ordinary gang of rabble indeed.

One commenter noted that the music was horrifyingly catchy. Not only that, but they make the viewer feel like they're in some kind of cool action movie. I can only imagine just how effective this is for recruitment over there. They're basically taking war and turning it into entertainment. They're sending essentially the message of: "fight the infidels and become heroic action heroes in the process!"

They're not just fanatical fighters, they're really great great communicators. I have to admit, I was laughing when I saw that shoop of Michelle Obama.

This is an extremely deadly combination that calls to mind other very successful (and violent) rebel groups in history. These guys are making Al-Qaeda look like an absolute joke.

[Big Country]

Is anyone still thinking these guys are organic in their genesis? Their whole system reeks of being western-backed in one form or another. I think the US waits for these guys to hammer Baghdad and set up a new Islamic republic (such is their stated goal, of course), get their shit orchestrated for an attack on Syria proper and then be on the doorstep of Israel.

Nothing like creating a new villain to fight against.

[Parlay44]

They're cavemen with machine guns. Just sit back and let them kill each other. Who cares.

I'm tired of the US government sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong. It's their country. Let them blow it up if they want.

[boycottamericanwomen]

(06-21-2014 08:42 AM)Big Country Wrote:  

Is anyone still thinking these guys are organic in their genesis? Their whole system reeks of being western-backed in one form or another. I think the US waits for these guys to hammer Baghdad and set up a new Islamic republic (such is their stated goal, of course), get their shit orchestrated for an attack on Syria proper and then be on the doorstep of Israel.

Nothing like creating a new villain to fight against.

It's pretty obvious that they are not organic. The CIA created the Taliban in the 1980s, and this is declassified information, not a conspiracy.

War is a trillion dollar industry. The common people die while the weapons manufactuer companies make hundreds of billions of dollars.

Remember, a year ago, it was a "conspiracy" to say that the government is spying on everyone. The rabbit hole goes much deeper than most people can even comprehend. That's the real test of the redpill. Understanding female psychology (game) is easy. Taking the full redpill and realizing how fucked up this world really is, that is something that very very few men are willing to do.

[TonySandos]

That's why whining about feminism the way 'activists' whine about racism is comparable.

You have to dig continuously for the answer and even then it is only valid for some time, then new factors or information make that theory irrelevant.

[Brian Boru]

It looks like the Shi'ites are up for the fight:

[samsamsam]

(06-21-2014 08:42 AM)Big Country Wrote:  

Is anyone still thinking these guys are organic in their genesis? Their whole system reeks of being western-backed in one form or another.

Probably by the neocons (rumsfeld, cheaney) and Halliburton and other Western companies. I won't go full conspiracy. More of a joke with a touch of possibility. It wouldn't surprise me on their death beds they admitted to stuff. Some people are just insane. And insane people, I think, generally don't know they are insane.

[boycottamericanwomen]

(06-21-2014 12:03 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(06-21-2014 08:42 AM)Big Country Wrote:  

Is anyone still thinking these guys are organic in their genesis? Their whole system reeks of being western-backed in one form or another.

Probably by the neocons (rumsfeld, cheaney) and Halliburton and other Western companies. I won't go full conspiracy. More of a joke with a touch of possibility. It wouldn't surprise me on their death beds they admitted to stuff. Some people are just insane. And insane people, I think, generally don't know they are insane.

Quote:

It was the CIA which trained ISIS insurgents secretly in Jordan in preparation for their subversive war in Syria. It was an agreement signed by George W. Bush and delegated under Obama's watch that allowed ISIS leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, to be set free in 2009. Saudi Arabia has been openly arming the Sunni's for years with the full knowledge of the U.S. government. So then, why is the narrative being created that America and Saudi Arabia are at odds over ISIS?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19...ink-crisis

So yes, the CIA was behind this too. I'm starting to wonder if all these "bombings" worldwide are simply false flag terrorist attacks done by CIA/Mossad?

[samsamsam]

Interesting fact. The leader of ISIS, Ibrahim Awwad Ibrahim Ali al-Badri, was held by the US but released in 2004 during the Bush administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi

[Ensam]

Article in the NYTs about how effective ISIS is at collecting wealth and maintaining infrastructure during their campaign:

Quote:

The insurgents seized as much as $400 million from the central bank in Mosul, said Atheel Nujaifi, the governor of Nineveh Province, and reportedly emptied the vaults in all the other banks in a city of more than one million residents. Other officials cite lower figures when discussing the central bank theft.

In a bloody seesaw battle for control of Iraq’s biggest oil refinery at Baiji, halfway between Baghdad and Mosul, the insurgents worked with the families of employees there to broker a cease-fire — so the workers could be safely evacuated.

It was no humanitarian gesture. “They want them to run the refinery when the fighting is over,” said one local official who spoke on the condition of anonymity out of fear that ISIS would kill him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/21/world/...vance.html

Wouldn't surprise me at all if they were being backed by somebody very interested in keeping the oil flowing.

[TonySandos]

An update. They're fighting each other now http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...atest.html

[Foolsgo1d]

What angers me about this whole thing is the "shock" from people in the UK that young men from our towns and cities are in the ME as Jihad warriors.

Just goes to show how following the MSM is a sure fire way to be ignorant of the whole article. Months ago I watched videos with HD capability showing British men in Syria carrying out executions..

You can see loads of them with Galazy S3s/4/5s and IPhones speaking a learned language. Not a peep of this on the news except for that bloody missing plane.

How is a missing plane more important than the public's awareness of young men brainwashed into
carrying out murder?

[Brian Boru]

But remember, "diversity is our strength"

[iknowexactly]

(06-21-2014 08:22 AM)Libertas Wrote:  

They're not just fanatical fighters, they're really great great communicators. I have to admit, I was laughing when I saw that shoop of Michelle Obama.

This is an extremely deadly combination that calls to mind other very successful (and violent) rebel groups in history. These guys are making Al-Qaeda look like an absolute joke.

Nazi Germany had great graphics, uniforms, banners, neoclassical architecture. Murdered millions.

[iknowexactly]

The older I get, the more I assume there is so much hidden stuff going on that our CIA and diplomats know that we have no idea about that I think for me to actually know how to handle foreign policy would be like trying to play 50 games of chess simultaneously.. there are some reasons why there are professions like dentistry, electrical engineer, diplomat...BUt when it involves words rather than a neuromotor skill or math knowledge, people always think they know more than the pros....

[xpatplayer]

(06-21-2014 11:20 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

The older I get, the more I assume there is so much hidden stuff going on that our CIA and diplomats know that we have no idea about that I think for me to actually know how to handle foreign policy would be like trying to play 50 games of chess simultaneously.. there are some reasons why there are professions like dentistry, electrical engineer, diplomat...BUt when it involves words rather than a neuromotor skill or math knowledge, people always think they know more than the pros....

If you want to know exactly what's going on (unintended play on your username), go to the country where shit's going down (Ex. Iraq, Syria, Egypt etc) or read independent media from the respective countries. The mainstream media reports make everything seem illogical but when you go to the country or read their independent media and twitter feeds, you realize that the US follows an extremely logical diplomatic policy.

Unfortunately, many in the CIA and the Government concede that analysis isn't always spot-on, something which leads to screw-ups.

An example is Egypt. In the USA, we have Fox News telling us that the Muslim Brotherhood is evil, anti-US & anti-Israel (false, except the anti-Israel part; then again almost everyone in Egypt is). But the truth is that its a social organization that the US supported post revolution because most Egyptians supported it. The US didn't want to lose an important ally and anchor in North Africa.

But when you had Morsi and crew screwing up because they were social workers with no idea about public administration, they got kicked out of power and the army took over. Mainstream media criticized Obama & the CIA for not foreseeing it but the truth is that he couldn't know what was coming. The CIA is full of analysts, not James Bonds and Jason Bournes who uncover mastermind plots (heck, the best masterminds the world has ever seen are probably working in some company's accounts department and not with the CIA, FSB or Al-Qaeda; they won't end up rich or powerful because they don't have the balls to take action).

Same in Iraq today. Will ISIS end up being straight-up anti-Western like the post 9/11 Taliban or a Wahhabi ally like Saudi Arabia? No one can say. But the US is doing a smart thing by not becoming butchers for the Shi'as and prolonging the Iraq crisis. We're just going to have to wait it out and see if they'll let American companies control the oilfields.

[Sawyer]

Of course it's completely logical. There are people and forces at play that want the total destruction of the Western nation-state to enable world government and world debt-backed currency, and they will do whatever they can to further that goal. That includes diluting the long-instilled values of Western Nations through media manipulation, the destruction of academia, non-enforcement of borders, and the creation of boogeymen who from caves launch complex attacks on first-world countries. Or when the effective reach of such wanes, creating black-robed rebels driving late model Toyotas.

This is a goddam joke. From top to bottom. The people "leading" you have one goal in mind -- your complete destruction as sovereign citizens living nations that reflect your values. That's the logic of it. That people calling the shots are operating from a completely different set of values than us. And that's not because the world wouldn't work without our values. It's because the world worked better with our values.

[AntiTrace]

People killing in the name of religion?

Crazy.

[Lizard King]

(06-19-2014 09:02 PM)boycottamericanwomen Wrote:  

Looks like weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq after all, and by ISIS no less!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19...a-facility

I am sorry for ever doubting you, my glorious leader.

You read the comments, right?.

Not implying that comment sections to articles are some kind of source of truth, but this one is quite pertinent
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19...nt-4875441


Have any of you read Ghost Wars by Steve Coll?

It is essential reading for gaining a solid understanding of the behind the scenes players in the Middle East(Afghanistan too).

[DarkTriad]

(06-21-2014 08:42 AM)Big Country Wrote:  

Is anyone still thinking these guys are organic in their genesis? Their whole system reeks of being western-backed in one form or another. I think the US waits for these guys to hammer Baghdad and set up a new Islamic republic (such is their stated goal, of course), get their shit orchestrated for an attack on Syria proper and then be on the doorstep of Israel.

Nothing like creating a new villain to fight against.

Mostly to the degree that America backs Saudi Arabia. Massive Saudi support for these guys. More civilian than official (think Irish American support to IRA back in the day). Plus some support when they were fighting Assad.