[Onto]

(05-14-2014 06:26 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

If you don't want to be the Dad and pay and pay, then it's time to



of America.

The worst of it is, that most men do want to be a Dad and help, but they want the freedom to decide how to do that.

America castrates men by not allowing them to make the decision to step up and do what they can.

Instead the Govt enables women to pick their pocket and pauperize them and if they resist…….throw them in jail.

There's never a chance to step up and be a Dad, it's done with the threat of the sword at their neck.

[Col. Tigh]

(05-14-2014 05:37 PM)Onto Wrote:  

...
Vietnam has no extradition laws, and I believe Colombia doesn't either??
...

Actually, Vietnam DOES extradite to the U.S. So scratch that one off the list, at least.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-14-2014 06:26 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

If you don't want to be the Dad and pay and pay, then it's time to



of America.

What will you tell the guys when their passports aren't renewed because of child support arrears?

[Samseau]

(05-14-2014 06:38 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(05-14-2014 06:26 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

If you don't want to be the Dad and pay and pay, then it's time to



of America.

What will you tell the guys when their passports aren't renewed because of child support arrears?

What's that country you can buy citizenship in again? That should be vacation destination #1.

[jamaicabound]

I grew up catholic so though i don't go to church really it's been pounded in my head schmashorshins are a no no. That being said I'm extra careful, never hit randoms raw, honestly more out of paranoia of std's than pregnancy worries but none the less just don't do it.

I'll be honest my attitude is kinda if your careless live with the consequences. That said whats done is done, the decision really isn't in your hands. You can try to convince her but if she has any aspirations of having a kid this could be her last chance in her eyes and she will.


The good part, sounds like she makes a decent buck, assuming she's an "independent" women maybe she'll be like I don't want anything from you, I can do this on my own your off the hook. I don't know the chick but really wouldn't surprise me if she was like that.

Honestly I wouldn't even bothr trying to persuade her, I think you'll do more harm than good. She's gonna do what she's gonna do either way, you trying to convince her I think may piss her off or make her more resolved to do what she wants anyway. I would be like look, I dont want this, I'm not going to be in either of your lives and leave it at that. From there you can see if she says well you at least gotta pay child support or not but I think trying to convince her your working against your own cause.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-14-2014 06:44 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(05-14-2014 06:38 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(05-14-2014 06:26 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

If you don't want to be the Dad and pay and pay, then it's time to



of America.

What will you tell the guys when their passports aren't renewed because of child support arrears?

What's that country you can buy citizenship in again? That should be vacation destination #1.

I remember reading about a guy who moved to Philippines because his wife royally screwed him over. It was to the point where he couldn't survive because of all the payments he was to make.

I imagine he was illegal there after some time. It would suck having to worry about getting caught all the time.

That would be the only scenario a guy should run, in my opinion.

Walking away from 250k a year (according to the OP) just because of child support would be more akin to "cutting your nose off to spite your face."

[Onto]

At this point, regardless if you decide to stay and pay you need to let her lead.

Just going and helping her with her "garden" is enough for her. That act alone will mean more to her than anything.

If the topic comes up, and she will probably do that at some point, you could say something like, "I have to be honest with you, I was in a state of shock when you told me, and I still am. I don't know if I'm ready to be a Father…I feel like I'm not ready, but I don't know, I'm confused about it….(then a slight pause)…..what would like to see me do?"

And then at this point you don't say a word. Got it? Not one word until she answers with something.

She may respond, "What?"

At which time you just repeat what you said.

She will either say, "I don't know", at which you don't say anything too.

Or she will tell you what she wants. After she tells you what she wants, then you respond with, "Ok, then that's what I'll do"

At this point, she may recognize she's being a self-interested person that's making demands on another (an ego) and feel a sense of fault for it.

If she does and then backtracks on what she says, just nod and say "Ok". She may backtrack and let you off the hook entirely. Long shot, but it could happen.

The most important thing is to not fault her if she backtracks and starts feeling bad about being an imposition on you. Just nod, smile and say "Ok" and even a "Thank you" if she lets you off the hook. She probably won't so don't get your hopes up here.

The most important thing at this point is undo the damage and get her to trust you and love you. Then later, you can decide what to do.

If she senses you're a flight risk, she could get that passport yanked I bet.

[Billy Chubbs]

(05-14-2014 04:52 PM)The Trader Wrote:  

She says she's not aborting and I say I'm not going to be fathering her child.
What are my options?

In al seriousness though, Happy Fathers Day!

[The Trader]

Just got back from helping her, the garden center closes at 6 so it will wait for another day. Instead we had a long talk, lots of her tears. I'm an asshole like all the other men in her life. A previous post makes mention that she wouldn't even want any help from me, thats the route she was taking at the end. No way she'll abort mission, her father sucked and wasn't around. I came from decent, put together house, but just want no part in kids with HER. It seemed that she kept driving the convo back to the assumption that she is making that I never cared and it was all a show. I tried to convince her otherwise and said the only reason she is saying this about me is because I don't want to have kids...like thats a crime. But she brought up that she was rifling through my phone 2 weeks prior and stumbled onto some of my pipelining activities. While this is partially true, the could be explained away as long time friends that happen to be girls, as this is also true. So the plot thickens. I didn't know she had done this and musta spied my password...and fuck the facebook app that lets you right in because its on your phone. On the other hand, could be a blessing in disguise if she really wants nothing to do with me going forward. But i'm sure when the tears dry and she talks with other hens she'd come after money. Frankly, I don't even like knowing that my seed is going to spawn, uncomfortable knowing that it could be out there! After all this, I am wondering if she could be pulling my chain just to see my reaction! But she seems too sincere for that. Trouble in paradise! I wouldn't run away from a good job because of this, but I've been single forever and have been working for 20 years precisely so that I could shove off in a year or two anyway. I probably would be making considerably less if I did this, but would always like to come back and visit family etc here in the US. Tough pickle.. I've been lurking on the forums for 4-5years after a particularly harsh breakup and found solace here. I'm always amazed by this place, sooo much intelligence, comraderie, and truth. I consider this place filled with often like minded thinking and brotherhood that is hard to find out in the wild anymore. Thanks fellas, I needed an ear where I could vomit this without having to sugar coat anything in fear of excessive judgement.

[Samseau]

So what are you gonna do?

[Christian McQueen]

In all seriousness OP, you HAVE to demand a paternity test (when you can), plus I'd have her pee on a stick in front of you now.

I've called many girls bluff this way and generally they were just trying to hang on to me and it was bullshit.

I've seen multiple times with guy friends the baby pops out, they get a paternity test and it's not even the man's kid.

Don't get played and don't get suckered in by a woman's tears.

[Onto]

(05-14-2014 06:50 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Walking away from 250k a year (according to the OP) just because of child support would be more akin to "cutting your nose off to spite your face."

It depends on the woman and situation.

Let's use lovely New York State for an example. Though the cap is $135k/year with an upward CPI adjustment, the judge is free to go higher and you can bet they do.

So here's the worst case, but typical, scenario.

17% of $250k is 42,500/year. x 21 years = $892,500

Day care for 5 years at $600/month = $36,000

Summer Camp for 15 years = $25,000

Private school??? Or Public??? It's her choice so who knows and who cares. After all he's paying the bills.

Medical/Dental at $600/month. over 21 years = $151,200

Braces - $8,000

College….better hope he enlists in the military

You're basically talking over $1 million. and that doesn't count all the gifts you give him and meals, and gas, and everything you do on your own.

Take home of $250k salary in NYS is about $150k, and that's IF you don't pay NYC tax on top of that.

$1 million over 21 years is about $47,000. So at least 1/3 of his take home will be gone if the kid doesn't go to college or private school.

Now you could say, well he makes so much money what does it matter?

Keep in mind, he's know forced to keep working for the next 21 years at a rate of $250k/year.

If he can't stand his job anymore and need something lower paying. "Too bad, pay up!"

Want to move to another less stressful city where your new love lives, "Too bad, pay up!".

Lose your job?, "Too bad, pay up!" Oh yes, it happened to me. No downward modification from the judge.

For the next 21 years you will HAVE to make that $250k and when you're pushing 40 and hoping to retire early that can seem like a death sentence.

Anyone here that's 40+ years old knows this well.

It's a win for the Government too, because you aren't in some other country enjoying foreign pussy. You're chained to your desk earning tax dollars for them and spending money for her.

So, it's not necessarily cutting of one's nose to spite their face. If you are 22 years old, then maybe.

IKE made a great point in one of his posts. As a man in his 50s the risk of getting an American girl pregnant and then being forced into 21 more years of slavery is too great.

[Jaydublin]

(05-14-2014 04:52 PM)The Trader Wrote:  

Ok...
I know I can't be the first to run into this,but the worst part, I was just about to let her go. It was a FWB that went on too long (4 months) and I broke up with her, 3 days later, she says she's preggers. Assuming its mine, I told her I want no part of it. We talked about it previously and I told her I have no interest in becoming a father to any children (truth be told, I probably could see it happening, but not with a 38 yr old dry spell breaker. She says she's not aborting and I say I'm not going to be fathering her child.
What are my options?

I'm in the midst of heavy presuasive conversation with her trying to convince her to terminate it. I don't think I'm going to win this one though.
Any help...always appreciated.

Stop having conversations with her about it, she will let u do that shit for 9 months. You are letting her know you care.

Make it clear in a short and direct statement that you don't want the kid and you don't want her and for her to leave you alone. Tell the only reason she should contact you is if she needs you to help pay for the abortion( if she is well to do leave this part out). Then be done with her. No contact, nothing. Let her know you don't give a fuck by walking away with no emotion.

[caracal]

It would be great if legislation were passed introducing a law that states that if a man has made it clear he doesn't want a child with a particular woman and can provide evidence of this, he is clear of all obligations financially. A fantasy world I know.

Make sure it's yours.

[The Trader]

Well Samseau,
I see my way forward is still clouded, but here are my thoughts:
-As Onto said, that cards are all in her hands (aside from the fortuitous chance of miscarriage 20%-30% in the next 6 weeks)
-She knows my opinion, says she hates me and wants nothing to do with her. (I will still ring her on Saturday morning and tell her I'm going to get the soil for her garden, if she would like to come along. I'm sure deep inside, she would want to.
-I will try and stay in her good graces by staying away and being helpful on the light.
-As she cools, I will reread her (if the situation changed ie. miscarriage, Still saying he wants nothing from me, or saying that she does want help of some kind)
Then I will roll with those punches best I can in the most cost effective manner. Part of me feels that although she is hyper-adament that she would never do it, I feel like maybe she could. Regardless, I still want to stack paper and shove off in less then a couple years. I'll try to do it as legally as I can so that I don't feel hunted. But above all, I'm hanging on to the fools hope that the old-aged vag just can't hold that kid in there for more then a few more weeks!
I feel like an asshole saying it. But I want no part of THIS with HER! They fought for the right to abort, we don't have that right to say anything, but these laws are not fair, thats for sure.

[worldwidetraveler]

Onto, I have no idea what you're talking about when throwing these figures around.

If the guy doesn't want to be part of the kid's life, he just pays the monthly child support payment and calls it a day.

He isn't going to be paying additional money for braces and private schools. The chick can do that if the child support payments aren't enough.

I am over 40. I certainly wouldn't want to spend my retirement worrying about being caught illegally residing in a different country,worrying about how I would make coin being an illegal immigrant, being deported and facing jail time for child support arrears.

Seriously, you guys are fear mongering way too much on here. If the guy couldn't afford his payments, couldn't get his payments lowered, then he would be sent to jail anyway and running is a no-brainer.

[The Trader]

(05-14-2014 07:35 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(05-14-2014 06:50 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Walking away from 250k a year (according to the OP) just because of child support would be more akin to "cutting your nose off to spite your face."

It depends on the woman and situation.

Let's use lovely New York State for an example. Though the cap is $135k/year with an upward CPI adjustment, the judge is free to go higher and you can bet they do.

So here's the worst case, but typical, scenario.

17% of $250k is 42,500/year. x 21 years = $892,500

Day care for 5 years at $600/month = $36,000

Summer Camp for 15 years = $25,000

Private school??? Or Public??? It's her choice so who knows and who cares. After all he's paying the bills.

Medical/Dental at $600/month. over 21 years = $151,200

Braces - $8,000

College….better hope he enlists in the military

You're basically talking over $1 million. and that doesn't count all the gifts you give him and meals, and gas, and everything you do on your own.

Take home of $250k salary in NYS is about $150k, and that's IF you don't pay NYC tax on top of that.

$1 million over 21 years is about $47,000. So at least 1/3 of his take home will be gone if the kid doesn't go to college or private school.

Now you could say, well he makes so much money what does it matter?

Keep in mind, he's know forced to keep working for the next 21 years at a rate of $250k/year.

If he can't stand his job anymore and need something lower paying. "Too bad, pay up!"

Want to move to another less stressful city where your new love lives, "Too bad, pay up!".

Lose your job?, "Too bad, pay up!" Oh yes, it happened to me. No downward modification from the judge.

For the next 21 years you will HAVE to make that $250k and when you're pushing 40 and hoping to retire early that can seem like a death sentence.

Anyone here that's 40+ years old knows this well.

It's a win for the Government too, because you aren't in some other country enjoying foreign pussy. You're chained to your desk earning tax dollars for them and spending money for her.

So, it's not necessarily cutting of one's nose to spite their face. If you are 22 years old, then maybe.

IKE made a great point in one of his posts. As a man in his 50s the risk of getting an American girl pregnant and then being forced into 21 more years of slavery is too great.

Wow.....This is what I'm talking about....Just thought I was wrapping up my servitude....but really, if this doesn't go my way, its 18 more years... That is almost worth not coming back.

[Onto]

(05-14-2014 07:26 PM)The Trader Wrote:  

No way she'll abort mission, her father sucked and wasn't around.

This is what you needed to know. She picked you to have the child with because she knew, on an unconscious level, that you (The Father) wouldn't be around.

She will either let you off the hook, or she will make you pay.

If she makes you pay, it will be because she wants The Father (her Father) to pay for his crimes of not being around. You have already said that you would be fine paying but don't want to around the kid, and she knew this about you when she banged you. It's all unconscious of course, but she sensed it.

If you decided to be involved with this child's life it will really through her for a loop, because it's not what she's expecting and not what she experienced growing up.

She may welcome it, or she become a ruthless bitch and try to drive you away so she can affirm that the Father is not really needed.

Affirm the question that's been with her since childhood. "The Father isn't here. Is that Ok? Is that how it should be? Is it my fault?"

Whether she felt it was ok that the Father wasn't around, or if she felt he should've been around will determine what she does with you.

[The Trader]

(05-14-2014 07:42 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Onto, I have no idea what you're talking about when throwing these figures around.

If the guy doesn't want to be part of the kid's life, he just pays the monthly child support payment and calls it a day.

He isn't going to be paying additional money for braces and private schools. The chick can do that if the child support payments aren't enough.

I am over 40. I certainly wouldn't want to spend my retirement worrying about being caught illegally residing in a different country,worrying about how I would make coin being an illegal immigrant, being deported and facing jail time for child support arrears.

Seriously, you guys are fear mongering way too much on here. If the guy couldn't afford his payments, couldn't get his payments lowered, then he would be sent to jail anyway and running is a no-brainer.

I was wondering about this. I had fantasies about cutting a check for $1,500 a month and going on my merry way and at 18, disappearing entirely.
If it was figures like the NYC example, I'd be packing my bags tomorrow. I just wanted to start up some dirt bike tours in costa rica and tag scandinavian vacationers ever week or two, then die at 63 with a local fling, be found with viagra in one hand and a fist full of blow in the other.
I can't believe this is happening to me now!

[Rutting Elephant]

Other countries are good not for running to, but as better places to risk unwanted pregnancies.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-14-2014 07:49 PM)The Trader Wrote:  

I was wondering about this. I had fantasies about cutting a check for $1,500 a month and going on my merry way and at 18, disappearing entirely.
If it was figures like the NYC example, I'd be packing my bags tomorrow. I just wanted to start up some dirt bike tours in costa rica and tag scandinavian vacationers ever week or two, then die at 63 with a local fling, be found with viagra in one hand and a fist full of blow in the other.
I can't believe this is happening to me now!

A good friend of mine was paying his baby momma a good amount of money each month. They never went to court or anything, it was just something they agreed too.

Then problems started happening and she kept hitting him up for extra money. Electric bills needed paying, tags on cars needed paying and he was forking over extra money because he wanted to make sure his baby was taken care of.

He eventually had enough and took her to court. The court said he was already paying the max he was suppose to pay and he didn't owe anything extra.

That put an end to the nonsense.

Just keep a level head and don't let the fear mongering get to you. You make good money and won't need to go on the lamb. I have had friends and family members go through this process and they didn't make half the amount you do.

[Onto]

(05-14-2014 07:42 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Onto, I have no idea what you're talking about when throwing these figures around.

If the guy doesn't want to be part of the kid's life, he just pays the monthly child support payment and calls it a day.

He isn't going to be paying additional money for braces and private schools. The chick can do that if the child support payments aren't enough.

It depends on the State, if we are talking about New York State then I am correct and you are not.

[The Trader]

(05-14-2014 07:47 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(05-14-2014 07:26 PM)The Trader Wrote:  

No way she'll abort mission, her father sucked and wasn't around.

This is what you needed to know. She picked you to have the child with because she knew, on an unconscious level, that you (The Father) wouldn't be around.

She will either let you off the hook, or she will make you pay.

If she makes you pay, it will be because she wants The Father (her Father) to pay for his crimes of not being around. You have already said that you would be fine paying but don't want to around the kid, and she knew this about you when she banged you. It's all unconscious of course, but she sensed it.

If you decided to be involved with this child's life it will really through her for a loop, because it's not what she's expecting and not what she experienced growing up.

She may welcome it, or she become a ruthless bitch and try to drive you away so she can affirm that the Father is not really needed.

Affirm the question that's been with her since childhood. "The Father isn't here. Is that Ok? Is that how it should be? Is it my fault?"

Whether she felt it was ok that the Father wasn't around, or if she felt he should've been around will determine what she does with you.

This is interesting, she has cut her father out and I believe once a year, he tries to get back into his kids lives but she has even blocked his number and he lives in another state with a girlfriend. She says her parents should have gotten a divorce long before they did. She kept on saying something before I left, " This relationship always had an expiration date with you didn't it?! say it!!" ...In truth it did, but I said she's just saying that because I don't want to be a father. Thats when she brought up the phone business..

Christian is on to something with the pregnancy test. While I did drop some bombs in there (stupid..) and it very possibly could be the case, no sense in not being entirely certain

[The Trader]

P.S. she is a "strong and independent womyn...Double fuck
Edit: this is in the upper midwest.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-14-2014 07:57 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(05-14-2014 07:42 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Onto, I have no idea what you're talking about when throwing these figures around.

If the guy doesn't want to be part of the kid's life, he just pays the monthly child support payment and calls it a day.

He isn't going to be paying additional money for braces and private schools. The chick can do that if the child support payments aren't enough.

It depends on the State, if we are talking about New York State then I am correct and you are not.

You should run away to another country like you suggested to Trader. I gather your running to Vietnam advice isn't something you would do yourself, eh? Typical fear mongering.