[cmrocks]

Hi,

I started grad school in September and started following Starting Strength with good results. I went from 165 to 175 lbs; I'm around 5'9 tall. I got my squat up to 295, deadlift up to 385 and bench up to 215.

Because of grad school, I've also went from a job that had me on my feet for 8+ hours a day to sitting on a computer all day long. My pants are mostly 31" waist and they're starting to get a bit snug. A couple pairs no longer fit. If I had to guess, I would say that I'm around 15% bodyfat.

Since summer is coming up, I'd like to start trimming up a bit. I was thinking of trying IF and dropped all gluten. I've tried Paleo before and it's not for me. I just had no energy on the diet and my workouts really suffered.

What are the more effective ways to start dropping a few percent body fat while being able to keep up the intensity in the gym?

[samsamsam]

Try this thread
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-4922.html

And not to sound like a MikeCF fanboy but I would go over to his blog. Been learning a lot listening to his podcasts. He has one on supplements - part of it is on fat loss.

http://dangerandplay.com/

He has some good stuff there.

[cmrocks]

Thanks.

What are your thoughts on training fasted? I get up at 7am, hit the gym from 8 to 930 then I'm at my office from 10 to 6, 7, 8 pm.

To follow the protocol correctly, I would have to train fasted then not eat until around 1 PM. That seems like a long time to wait to eat after an intense workout.

With that being said, in a couple more weeks, school will be done for the semester and all the undergrads will be going home. At that point, the gym won't be so busy and I'll be able to workout at 2 PM. That might be more effective on the IF protocol. Right now, I only workout so early because I can't stand lifting in a busy gym.

[cmrocks]

I spent some more time on that thread. I'm really excited now. I've already had breakfast today so I'll give it a go starting tomorrow.

[monster]

(04-05-2014 01:14 PM)cmrocks Wrote:  

Thanks.

What are your thoughts on training fasted? I get up at 7am, hit the gym from 8 to 930 then I'm at my office from 10 to 6, 7, 8 pm.

To follow the protocol correctly, I would have to train fasted then not eat until around 1 PM. That seems like a long time to wait to eat after an intense workout.

With that being said, in a couple more weeks, school will be done for the semester and all the undergrads will be going home. At that point, the gym won't be so busy and I'll be able to workout at 2 PM. That might be more effective on the IF protocol. Right now, I only workout so early because I can't stand lifting in a busy gym.

training fasted took me about 1 wk to get used to it, but after that same as usual.

[theking]

I'd personally forget the fasted cardio and 'supplements' and just stick to the basics. Calculate your calorific needs and start at a 500 calorie deficit. If you are not losing weight fast enough, bump it up to 750-1000. I'd stick to a basic plan like this and then after you lose some weight, you can start to get more complicated. But really, as long as you are not eating junk food this plan will suffice for pretty much everyone looking to trim up for the summer

[polar]

I've never counted calories or sat down to figure out my intake.

What's worked for me: (note: I'm not a doctor consult a professional before beginning a workout program blah blah blah)

1) High Intensity Interval Training - basically, don't do more than 20 min of cardio, but when you do, alternate sprinting and jogging, rather than steady state. Repeat several times weekly. Your goal is to measure your burned calories per minute, then beat that every time. This gives your metabolism a big kick in the ass.
-if pressed for time, look into Tabata intervals. Same principle, 20 seconds full on, 10 seconds slow, rinse, repeat until you hit 4 minutes. Goal is to not be able to stand after you finish.

2) eat cleanly. Cut all junk and make sure your snacks are healthy. Basically, cut foods with high glycemic index.

I had three-four wholesome meals, plus I substituted a lot of juicing / blending fruit with greek yogurt to stay full between meals. Add cinnamon to foods to slow down carb uptake. I also supplemented with chromium, not sure how effective it was by itself, but it does regulate blood sugar.

I was able to go from 167 to 156 or so within 2-3 months, to the point where jeans that were snug were actually loose.

If you're cutting calories, make sure to keep protein intake steady, as a caloric deficit = catabolism (your body thinks you're starving, so it breaks down muscle to cut upkeep expenses - fat holds as many calories per pound as muscle, but is far cheaper to maintain)

[berserk]

Intermittent fasting combined with low carb always worked for me, dropped 7kgs in 3 months. You are not going to be tired during the day, but rather after you eat. It might take a couple of days to adjust. Moderate to high intensity cardio for 45-60 minutes a day is what I've found most effective, but if you want to keep muscle mass more I'd just keep lifting heavy but focus on explosive movements like the clean and press or just add sets of 5 power cleans every workout.

The clean and press is mad intensive and will send your heart racing like no other. A truly alpha lift too. I got up to 90kg clean and press which felt damn good to have that much weight over your head, but only do it if you have access to bumper plates to throw the weight down. Otherwise, just do clean and press for lower weights you can handle.

I actually only had access to a squat rack and olympic plates for the last 2 months and therefore couldn't do bench and dumbbell exercise, so only did overhead press. My shoulders are massive now and chest doesn't seem to have suffered, my personal opinion is that the overhead press is a better full body exercise than the bench and therefore also better for burning cals.

Part of staying in shape is actually being in shape. As I've lost weight, I can put way more intensity into a workout or run faster for longer which means I burn more calories in the same time.

[Tail Gunner]

I lost twenty pounds in three months (since January 2nd) without dieting, but by simply changing my diet. My level of physical activity remained exactly the same. If I have time, I will eventually start a thread.

I eliminated dairy, bread, and sugar (except fruit). I only eat meat two or three times a week (and then, only small portions). I eat mostly plants (fruit, vegetables, nuts, and whole grains). I take two 1000 mg fish oil capsules twice a day along with a good multi-vitamin. I also took digestive enzymes and probiotics to help the transition to a new way of eating.

I emphasize that this is not a diet. I eat as much as I want, whenever I want. Yet I still lost twenty pounds. I am amazed that what you eat -- as opposed to how much you eat -- can have such a significant impact on your weight and your health.

Give it a shot.

[cmrocks]

Thanks guys.

My biggest concern about this is losing all the hard work and muscle that I've gained over the winter. I've been working out pretty hard and I'm the strongest that I've ever been. I don't think I need to do anything extreme. I just want to drop some body fat.

I'm going to give intermittent fasting a proper effort. I spent some time on the Lean Gains website last night. I'm really excited about it. I would much rather skip breakfast and I've always liked stuffing myself rather than eating small meals all day long. I've been awake for two hours today and I'm starving right now haha.

The other thing I'm going to do is make a conscious effort to drop wheat and gluten products. I'm not ready to go low carb or Paleo. I've tried that in the past and I can't keep it up. I just don't enjoy eating the foods. I think I can drop wheat fairly easily though.

So anyways, today is the first day. I'll keep you guys updated.

[samsamsam]

(04-06-2014 09:59 AM)cmrocks Wrote:  

Thanks guys.

My biggest concern about this is losing all the hard work and muscle that I've gained over the winter. I've been working out pretty hard and I'm the strongest that I've ever been. I don't think I need to do anything extreme. I just want to drop some body fat.

I'm going to give intermittent fasting a proper effort. I spent some time on the Lean Gains website last night. I'm really excited about it. I would much rather skip breakfast and I've always liked stuffing myself rather than eating small meals all day long. I've been awake for two hours today and I'm starving right now haha.

The other thing I'm going to do is make a conscious effort to drop wheat and gluten products. I'm not ready to go low carb or Paleo. I've tried that in the past and I can't keep it up. I just don't enjoy eating the foods. I think I can drop wheat fairly easily though.

So anyways, today is the first day. I'll keep you guys updated.

If I may add a thought. I like stuffing myself also - I can eat 2 whole large pizzas if hungry enough. But I still think it is about total calories. Don't get me wrong I have gone over ideal calories in a day and it hasn't totally hurt me (just didn't eat the crusts ) but still try not to exceed overall desirable calories in a day. Even if you did eat as much as you wanted to, a 100 fewer calories eaten is still 100 fewer calories your body has to digest.

[roberto]

Low carb is key in my mind. I went Keto, and the weight shot off. Like an idiot I went too far and lost muscle too. Now I eat what I would describe as Paleo with mature cheese. No sugar or grains, tons of eggs, meat, fish and leafy veg. Most of the time I'm in keto, but will quite happily grab a pack of nuts and dried fruit for 100g of carbs every now and then. I eat all I want, and still stay around 6%BF.

It's hard (read up on keto flue) but once you've gone without carbs for a month of so, your body realises that it can and will make better use of the calories in fat and protein- rather than relying solely upon easily accessible sugar (which is what all carbs essentially are).

Once you're over this transition phase, your appetite drops too. It's amazing how much less you want and need to eat once you're running on real foods rather than sugar.

Of course, genetic heritage plays it's part too. I would guess that I'm of North European decent, so this suits me. Kosko on here stated that his ancestry means he is the opposite- running almost completely on carbs. YMMV.

Good luck.

[cmrocks]

I don't doubt that keto and Paleo work wonders but I just don't want to do it. I'm probably at 15% bodyfat right now and I want to get down to about 12%.

Cooking is one of my favorite hobbies. I'm going to try giving up gluten and seeing how that works but I'm not ready to give up carbs in general.

[nogamenick]

A 500cal deficit would work best. Mix in some low intensity cardo and high intensity interval training. Don't stop lifting. Make sure you keep your protein intake up high. Take about 3 protein shakes a day and cut down on the carbs. It really is all about calories at the end of the day. Harsh diets are overrated.

[Laurifer]

(04-05-2014 01:14 PM)cmrocks Wrote:  

Thanks.

What are your thoughts on training fasted? I get up at 7am, hit the gym from 8 to 930 then I'm at my office from 10 to 6, 7, 8 pm.

To follow the protocol correctly, I would have to train fasted then not eat until around 1 PM. That seems like a long time to wait to eat after an intense workout.

Regarding training while fasted, I am soon going to start taking what was mentioned in one of MikeCF's podcasts (can't remember which one) where Jay mentions that if you are already generally lean and need to get rid of the stubborn left over fat (lower back, love handles, thighs etc) use yohimbine hcl (do not confuse with yohimbe!!), L-tyrosine, and caffeine. To quote him its like "taking a blow torch to your fat."

I'm planning on starting the yohimbine hcl and caffeine sparingly. Stuff is supposed to be potent. I researched it and it seems to work very well when taken fasted (a must) and done with moderate cardio.

[samsamsam]

(04-07-2014 06:20 PM)Laurifer Wrote:  

(04-05-2014 01:14 PM)cmrocks Wrote:  

Thanks.

What are your thoughts on training fasted? I get up at 7am, hit the gym from 8 to 930 then I'm at my office from 10 to 6, 7, 8 pm.

To follow the protocol correctly, I would have to train fasted then not eat until around 1 PM. That seems like a long time to wait to eat after an intense workout.

Regarding training while fasted, I am soon going to start taking what was mentioned in one of MikeCF's podcasts (can't remember which one) where Jay mentions that if you are already generally lean and need to get rid of the stubborn left over fat (lower back, love handles, thighs etc) use yohimbine hcl (do not confuse with yohimbe!!), L-tyrosine, and caffeine. To quote him its like "taking a blow torch to your fat."

I'm planning on starting the yohimbine hcl and caffeine sparingly. Stuff is supposed to be potent. I researched it and it seems to work very well when taken fasted (a must) and done with moderate cardio.

I have started this for the same reason. I posted a question on MikeCF's blog but maybe you have some idea. I am trying to figure how to do this for. In other words, do I cycle on and off this stack? I tried reading some stuff some guys say one month on one month off. But not sure how many times a week.

Anyway, if you have an idea would be great to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

[cmrocks]

How long does it take until training fasted gets easier?

This morning was my second fasted workout; brutally hard. I'm struggling with weights that I can normally just crush.

[Captain Gh]

If you're struggling while training fasted, there's 2 alternatives that you can use to resolve the problem:

1) If you can afford it, you could take about 10g of BCAA before your workouts. They are basically broken down proteins to the core, but bypasses your liver and go directly in your muscles, which makes BCAA's virtually non caloric and a great boost to improve your pump

2) You can simply skip the carbs as much as possible on your breakfast and have some light protein intake. It won't be fasted training, but as long as you limit your carb intake, your body will try to skip on using your anaerobic system and try to get it's energy from your ATP sources and your stored body fat.

Also don't forget that you must eat after a workout no matter what. If you're doing IF, simply include your post workout meal in the eating window that you feel comfortable with and fits your schedule.

[cmrocks]

Thanks.

I've heard good things about taking BCAAs. I could check that out for sure.

Here's my thing, right now, I work out at 8 AM because the gym is slammed any other time of day. I'm in grad school right now so I workout at the university. I workout from 8 to 9 am then start eating around 1 PM. Before trying IF, I would just eat a small bowl of granola then go workout. I have a hard time believing that a small meal like that 30 mins post workout would really make much of a difference. I think it's mostly mental.

In a couple weeks, the undergrads will be gone and the gym should be fairly empty most of the day. Maybe I'll have better luck training fasted if I've been awake for several hours?

[ElBorrachoInfamoso]

I've used a modified version of fasted morning cardio. Basically, I'm not fasted. I do something similar to what Captain Gh proposed.

I drink a whey shake with some BCAAs first thing in the morning and then drink a coffee or take some energy booster pill if I'm really trying to cut. This lets you do higher intensity cardio in the morning - which is more fun anyway - and it keeps you from breaking down your own muscle for energy.

[Laurifer]

(04-07-2014 08:22 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I have started this for the same reason. I posted a question on MikeCF's blog but maybe you have some idea. I am trying to figure how to do this for. In other words, do I cycle on and off this stack? I tried reading some stuff some guys say one month on one month off. But not sure how many times a week.

Anyway, if you have an idea would be great to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

I believe he mentions in the pod cast that it will lose its effectiveness after about 2 weeks due to your body building a tolerance to it. I'm assuming this happens when it is taken daily. However, I'd also assume then that by taking it less often your tolerance will build up slower. I am currently only in the gym about once a week, so I'd only be taking it one day a week for right now.

So if I was going to be taking Yohimbine HCL daily then I'd say at the two week point would be my cut-off date, then after two weeks of being of off it I would resume taking it and continue with it that way.