[Faust]

You don't need specialized training in immunology to read a study abstract. They look like this:
"The preventive effect of parenteral inactivated influenza vaccine on healthy adults is small: at least 40 people would need vaccination to avoid one ILI case (95% confidence interval (CI) 26 to 128) and 71 people would need vaccination to prevent one case of influenza (95% CI 64 to 80). Vaccination shows no appreciable effect on working days lost or hospitalisation.

The protection against ILI that is given by the administration of inactivated influenza vaccine to pregnant women is uncertain or at least very limited; the effect on their newborns is not statistically significant.

The effectiveness of live aerosol vaccines on healthy adults is similar to inactivated vaccines: 46 people (95% CI 29 to 115) would need immunisation to avoid one ILI case."

Quantum theory this is not.

[Teutatis]

(03-23-2014 06:33 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

That is exactly what I meant as well, when I said that Americans are free thinkers. Obviously, I meant minority-view thinkers and movements.

The people of most countries are far more homogeneous in their patterns of thinking and society often actively dissuades dissent, which explains the disproportion of Nobel winners from the U.S. because creative minority-view thinkers tend to thrive in a society where individuality flourishes.

America indeed does have great men who have produced greatness in many different fields and America's contributions to the development and advancement of the world's culture, technology, economy and so on are vast and numerous, I would never argue against that, but unlike you I don't think it's because there's something magical about America or that by being born here you're somehow special, but because the US, and many people don't seem to take this into account, is simply a huge immense country with the third highest population on the planet, behind China and India. You are bound to find geniuses and great men of other sorts in such an enormous population, even if the average person is nothing of the sort.

You also seem to imply that the rest of the world lives under a blanket of darkness, conformity and ignorance who don't contribute anything to the advancement of human knowledge, sorry but I can't agree with that at all. You will find just as many differences of opinion in other countries as you do in the US, and other countries produce and contribute to human knowledge just as much.

You make it sound like outside the US the world is like North Korea.

And I have to ask you, do you honestly believe the majority of the American population is composed of "free thinkers" who "question everything"?

Just to make clear, I'm not bashing America, I think it's great, I'm just pointing out that there are other greats out there as well.

[Tail Gunner]

(03-25-2014 12:31 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 06:33 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

That is exactly what I meant as well, when I said that Americans are free thinkers. Obviously, I meant minority-view thinkers and movements.

The people of most countries are far more homogeneous in their patterns of thinking and society often actively dissuades dissent, which explains the disproportion of Nobel winners from the U.S. because creative minority-view thinkers tend to thrive in a society where individuality flourishes.

And I have to ask you, do you honestly believe the majority of the American population is composed of "free thinkers" who "question everything"?

I was very clear in what I said: that the lack of a homogeneous culture that also allows dissent encourages minority-view thinkers and movements. The U.S. has the largest such culture.

Obviously, I was not referring to the majority of Americans. But that raises an interesting question. If you believe that the vast majority of Americans are not free thinkers but mindless boobs, then why would you accept the majority position regarding vaccines?

[Teutatis]

I don't accept the majority position, I accept science.

[Tail Gunner]

(03-25-2014 01:11 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I don't accept the majority position, I accept science.

Hate to break it to you, but you are accepting the majority position scientific position, which is often proven wrong in the long run.

The medical profession performed lobotomies for thirty years until the late 1970's. Think about it.

[clever alias]

america actually is special in thay we lag behind ither countries in math and science. even jordan outperforms us. most nobel prize winners are "american" because of the h1b visa: we take the smartest from other countries and put them to work for us.

i would accept the majority opinion regarding vaccines because there is literally 0 evidence to do so otherwise.

somewhere along the way, americans began to feel like anyone who is not me is inherently out to fuck me. or that 5 minutes on google makes someone an expert. and then we politicized the fuck out of our science. someone's political leaning are now more important than educational background on nearly everything and we call ourselves "free thinkers?" after einstein published his theory of general relativity, nobody asked him if he voted for wilson or not. nobody said "wait, we cant trust this, its what the man wants us to think." instead, everyone said "wow this guys smarter than me, because i do not have a phd in theoretical physics, i might want to trust him" and einstein, likewise probably never said "i have a phd in theoretical physics, I don't care what my dentist says, fuck flossing."

[Tail Gunner]

(03-25-2014 01:31 AM)clever alias Wrote:  

somewhere along the way, americans began to feel like anyone who is not me is inherently out to fuck me. or that 5 minutes on google makes someone an expert. and then we politicized the fuck out of our science. someone's political leaning are now more important than educational background on nearly everything and we call ourselves "free thinkers?" after einstein published his theory of general relativity, nobody asked him if he voted for wilson or not. nobody said "wait, we cant trust this, its what the man wants us to think." instead, everyone said "wow this guys smarter than me, because i do not have a phd in theoretical physics, i might want to trust him" and einstein, likewise probably never said "i have a phd in theoretical physics, I don't care what my dentist says, fuck flossing."

Interesting that you cite Einstein for your point, one of the great free thinkers who fled to the U.S.

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." Albert Einstein.

Everyone knew that Einstein did not vote for Wilson, because he lived in Germany until 1933.

Quote:

i would accept the majority opinion regarding vaccines because there is literally 0 evidence to do so otherwise.

At least a dozen books exist about the dangers of vaccines, not even counting thousands of articles. Far from zero evidence.

[clever alias]

(03-25-2014 01:28 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:11 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I don't accept the majority position, I accept science.

Hate to break it to you, but you are accepting the majority position scientific position, which is often proven wrong in the long run.

The medical profession performed lobotomies for thirty years until the late 1970's. Think about it.

That doesn't make science wrong, it means that we didn't have a better way of treating people at the time. Labotomies and shock therapy were for people that were schizo or had psychosis and were a danger to themselves or others. lobotomies removed them as dangerous and shock therapy was somewhat effective. We don't do it now because we have powerful, effective medication that can achieve the same result. It doesn't make what was done wrong or evil.
in 50 years, when we treat cancer at the cellular level with nanites, we'll look back and scoff at treating with radiation. its the best we have available to us, and its still the best chance for people. just because something will be better doesn't mean it's wrong or bad now

[Tail Gunner]

(03-25-2014 01:50 AM)clever alias Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:28 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:11 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I don't accept the majority position, I accept science.

Hate to break it to you, but you are accepting the majority position scientific position, which is often proven wrong in the long run.

The medical profession performed lobotomies for thirty years until the late 1970's. Think about it.

That doesn't make science wrong, it means that we didn't have a better way of treating people at the time. Labotomies and shock therapy were for people that were schizo or had psychosis and were a danger to themselves or others. lobotomies removed them as dangerous and shock therapy was somewhat effective. We don't do it now because we have powerful, effective medication that can achieve the same result. It doesn't make what was done wrong or evil.
in 50 years, when we treat cancer at the cellular level with nanites, we'll look back and scoff at treating with radiation. its the best we have available to us, and its still the best chance for people. just because something will be better doesn't mean it's wrong or bad now

Sounds like you have some reading to do. Some doctors even prescribed lobotomies for headaches. In one famous case, a boy was given a lobotomy because his stepmother felt that he was a problem because he refused to go to bed. These things were done by one of the leading lobotomy doctors of the time, not some quack. Go science!

[clever alias]

(03-25-2014 01:57 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:50 AM)clever alias Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:28 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:11 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I don't accept the majority position, I accept science.

Hate to break it to you, but you are accepting the majority position scientific position, which is often proven wrong in the long run.

The medical profession performed lobotomies for thirty years until the late 1970's. Think about it.

That doesn't make science wrong, it means that we didn't have a better way of treating people at the time. Labotomies and shock therapy were for people that were schizo or had psychosis and were a danger to themselves or others. lobotomies removed them as dangerous and shock therapy was somewhat effective. We don't do it now because we have powerful, effective medication that can achieve the same result. It doesn't make what was done wrong or evil.
in 50 years, when we treat cancer at the cellular level with nanites, we'll look back and scoff at treating with radiation. its the best we have available to us, and its still the best chance for people. just because something will be better doesn't mean it's wrong or bad now

Sounds like you have some reading to do. Some doctors even prescribed lobotomies for headaches. In one famous case, a boy was given a lobotomy because his stepmother felt that he was a problem because he refused to go to bed. These things were done by one of the leading lobotomy doctors of the time, not some quack. Go science!

indeed, that's why Walter Freeman (the guy who invented the ice-pick method) had his medical license revoked.
But at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what I say as this article http://healthland.time.com/2014/03/04/no...eir-minds/ makes clear: even in the face of research, most anti-vaxxers get MORE opposed to vaccines. there really is no rhyme or reason to it. The Sisyphean task is not worth it. think whatever the hell you want

[Teutatis]

(03-25-2014 01:28 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:11 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I don't accept the majority position, I accept science.

Hate to break it to you, but you are accepting the majority position scientific position, which is often proven wrong in the long run.

The medical profession performed lobotomies for thirty years until the late 1970's. Think about it.

You can't be serious, you're using an extreme example, the horror of lobotomy, to dismiss this whole body of knowledge that is modern medicine, you're using the argument that because we keep learning more and more and that we know more now than we did in the past to say we shouldn't accept vaccines? Vaccination is not something that science still has doubts and questions about or if it works or not, we know that it does work.

So if modern day scientists are wrong please tell me who should I listen to that is right and knows the real truth, you? The people on these ridiculous anti vaccine movements? Please let me know if you ever find yourself in need of serious medical care how you don't believe in sterilization, anesthesia and modern medical procedures, since the majority of the medical community accepts these things as truth and helpful and beneficial. Let me know if you're going to tell them that you don't want them to use their knowledge to make you better because in the long run they might be proven wrong about these things.

[Walderschmidt]

(03-25-2014 08:20 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

Please let me know if you ever find yourself in need of serious medical care how you don't believe in sterilization, anesthesia and modern medical procedures, since the majority of the medical community accepts these things as truth and helpful and beneficial.

Besides the fact that majority of the medical community accepts things as truth, why do you?

Wald

[SteveCR]

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/21...ted_polio/

AMA about "a 58 year old woman who contracted polio because my mother didn't vaccinate me as a child. AMA!"

"My short bio: Hi Reddit. As the title states, I'm a 58 year old woman who contracted polio as a child because my mother chose to not vaccinate me. I want to do this AMA due to the current controversies surrounding the anti-vaccine movement and to also help spread the truth about vaccines so no more children need to contract unnecessary diseases."

[Veloce]

(03-23-2014 01:09 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 09:31 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

It's clearly an American thing. I see on these forum that it's usually the people that lean libertarian who most strongly oppose it, you won't find these anti vaccination movements and their arguments (the government is bad, the government wants you to be vaccinated, therefore, vaccines are bad) anywhere else. Have fun not vaccinating your children and have them fall ill of diseases that don't exist in the rest of the civilized world.

Americans are free-thinkers, which is why there are almost more American Nobel winners than winners from the rest of the world combined. Americans question everything because everything deserves to be questioned -- and minority thinkers are often proven correct.

Just follow the money. If big pharma convinces the government to compel mandatory vaccines for half the nation at just ten dollars of profit per patented vaccine that totals $1.5 billion. No profit motive there. And your health be damned!

On the other hand, Europeans are way ahead of the U.S. regarding such things as eliminating fluoride, labeling GMO foods, and the use of herbs as medicine (as are Asians).

It pains me to read this thread and see any post that consists of:

"Anyone who doesn't believe x causes y is clearly a MORON."

There is nothing wrong with skepticism. If someone says something that makes your blood boil in its idiocy, go take a hit off of your inhaler, relax for 5 minutes, and come back with facts instead of childish name-calling.

Skepticism is as American as apple pie (which itself isn't American, but I digress). We've always had a large portion (not the majority) that is skeptical of everything we're spoonfed by the government. This is healthy and what makes this country great. In my travels to other countries I don't see as much of this and for all the faults of the U.S. I see far more tunnel vision and homogenized thought in other countries.

I don't think anyone on this thread is discounting the benefits of vaccines in their treatment of polio or smallpox.

But the 'flu? Pass. Every year I see the same people getting flu shots and every year I see the same people spending months at a time completely unhealthy, feeling like shit, and calling in sick to work. I don't have any medical background or degree to back up my observations and I don't feel like I need to. Just like nobody needs a degree in nutrition to understand that gluten makes them feel like shit. Not everyone needs a plaque on the wall or years of schooling to make basic observational judgements.

I've never gotten a flu vaccination and I don't plan to. I would get my kids their basic vaccinations but that's it. I'm not down with antibiotics either and I'll only take that shit if I feel like I'm literally on my death bed, which happens once every 5 years or so with a particularly nasty bug.

To quote the father of western medicine: "Let food be thy medicine".

[Tail Gunner]

(03-25-2014 08:20 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:28 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 01:11 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I don't accept the majority position, I accept science.

Hate to break it to you, but you are accepting the majority position scientific position, which is often proven wrong in the long run.

The medical profession performed lobotomies for thirty years until the late 1970's. Think about it.

You can't be serious, you're using an extreme example, the horror of lobotomy, to dismiss this whole body of knowledge that is modern medicine, you're using the argument that because we keep learning more and more and that we know more now than we did in the past to say we shouldn't accept vaccines? Vaccination is not something that science still has doubts and questions about or if it works or not, we know that it does work.

So if modern day scientists are wrong please tell me who should I listen to that is right and knows the real truth, you? The people on these ridiculous anti vaccine movements? Please let me know if you ever find yourself in need of serious medical care how you don't believe in sterilization, anesthesia and modern medical procedures, since the majority of the medical community accepts these things as truth and helpful and beneficial. Let me know if you're going to tell them that you don't want them to use their knowledge to make you better because in the long run they might be proven wrong about these things

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. I am dismissing the entire body of knowledge that is modern medicine simply because I disagree with certain aspects of it. I think that the absence of logic speaks for itself.



Comparing the medical malfeasance inherent in lobotomies with the potential malfeasance in vaccinations is known as an analogy. It demonstrates that scientific thought is a work-in-progress subject to significant and pervasive error.

I think that thedudes post summarized the remainder of my thoughts. Everything scientific must be questioned and reevaluated on an ongoing basis as new data is gathered and analyzed. In the end, everyone must have the freedom to make their own choice regarding what foreign substances enter their body.

[Teutatis]

You're all over the place, I think everyone agrees that everything scientific must be questioned, and as we add to our knowledge we will make better choices, and that's exactly what happens with vaccination, because we questioned, discovered and evaluated new data we have been able to prove over and over and over again that it works and that it's beneficial for human populations and it has been proven over and over and over again that not vaccinating does not work and it's detrimental to the health of human populations, so I still don't understand how you can argue against it.

[Teutatis]

(03-25-2014 09:19 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 08:20 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

Please let me know if you ever find yourself in need of serious medical care how you don't believe in sterilization, anesthesia and modern medical procedures, since the majority of the medical community accepts these things as truth and helpful and beneficial.

Besides the fact that majority of the medical community accepts things as truth, why do you?

Wald

I don't even know how to respond to this.

[RouteBackwards]

(03-18-2014 07:19 PM)monster Wrote:  

I don't know much about the anti-vaccine movement, but recently the anti-antivaccine (or rather, pro-vaccine) movement has been gaining a lot of traction. This makes me wonder if the anti-vaccine movement has any credibility?

The pro-vaccine movement is getting a lot of headlines mocking Jenny McCarthy and her stance. Of course, Jenny is easy to mock, not least because she is female. But these are all ad hominem arguements against her and always end up saying, "well because doctors say it's safe then it must be safe."

On the flip side, anyone who has ever criticized the status quo and standard practice of the medical establishment gets shamed for even questioning the medical authority because of course "doctors know best." This position is equally ridiculous and I know in my own case if I want to find out what's wrong with me I do my own research based on my hormonal panels, bloodwork etc and rarely listen to a doctor. I know others on here feel the same. Just because a bunch of people go to med school doesn't make them experts on everything and doesn't mean we shouldn't question Big Pharma.

So has anyone looked into the anti-vaccine movement and found it to be credible?

Vaccines are harmful and the Illuminati is behind everything you love, like food and pussy.

Source: Some Youtube Video Edited In Windows Movie Maker

[Tail Gunner]

(03-25-2014 06:37 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 09:19 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 08:20 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

Please let me know if you ever find yourself in need of serious medical care how you don't believe in sterilization, anesthesia and modern medical procedures, since the majority of the medical community accepts these things as truth and helpful and beneficial.

Besides the fact that majority of the medical community accepts things as truth, why do you?

Wald

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Why? The United States of America was founded as a Constitutional Republic (and not a democracy) based on the fundamental truth that the majority is as often wrong as not.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" Benjamin Franklin

This is not rocket science.

[Walderschmidt]

(03-25-2014 06:37 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I don't even know how to respond to this.

Do you have any other reason you believe in the efficacy of vaccines other than the fact that a majority of the medical community does?

Wald

[Teutatis]

The majority of the medical community believes in the efficacy of vaccines because that's what the scientific data we've gather throughout the years tells us. This is not some political ideology or philosophical school of thought that you can argue against and debate on its merits and so on, this is empirical data that shows us that vaccines are indeed useful and beneficial, that's why scientists agree that vaccination is a good idea.

Let me ask you, since the majority of the medical community accepts this as truth what reason do you have to not agree with them? Where's the data that show vaccines are harmful and damaging?

[Tail Gunner]

(03-25-2014 09:44 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

Let me ask you, since the majority of the medical community accepts this as truth what reason do you have to not agree with them? Where's the data that show vaccines are harmful and damaging?

I have not listed any data, because the amount of data showing the negative health effects from vaccines is simply staggering. Aside from the dozen or so books that I already mentioned, just go to Dr. Mercola's web site and search under "vaccine." I stopped counting after 100 articles.

I have subscribed to Dr. Mercola's daily e-mail for nearly ten years. Are you on a doctor's email list? How many articles written by a doctor do you read each day? How many books have you read on medical issues. I have an entire book case filled with such books.

Just one sample article from Dr. Mercola. One of hundreds of articles reporting on the negative health effects of vaccines.

Quote:

Vaccines and Neurological Damage

Vaccinations are very neurotoxic and have been associated with many neurological disorders, like encephalopathies, epilepsy, convulsions, ADD, LD, autism, mental retardation, depression, anxiety, CNS disorders, paralysis, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, nerve deafness, blindness and SIDS. The neurological disorders associated with vaccinations are diverse and numerous. Vaccinations lower IQ as well as contribute to the overt mental disorders and neurological diseases listed here.

The relationship of vaccinations to encephalopathies and neurological diseases have been surfacing in medical journals since the advent of mass vaccination programs. Autism was unheard of before vaccinations, and parallel mass vaccination programs very nicely. ADD and learning disorders in children are now being traced to childhood vaccinations, as well as convulsions, paralysis, and epilepsy. Brain damage is by far the most common adverse reaction associated with vaccinations, although their actual numbers are not often reported correctly.

List of Vaccination-induced Neurological disorders:

Encephalitis
Ataxia/Apraxia
Retardation
Meningitis Paralysis
Paralytis polio
Ms Gullain Barre Syndrome
Lupus
Hyperactivity - ADD, LD
Demyelinization diseases
Auto-immune Diseases Epilepsy
Convulsions - Seizures
Blindness
Deafness
SIDS
Epilepsy
Mental confusion - lowered IQ
Brain tumors (SV-40)

This list was generated from a variety of resources and is not, by any means, all inclusive.

The encephalopathies associated with vaccinations may range from overt neurological disease to high pitched crying (commonly seen after vaccination), which is not often recognized as brain damage. In other words, the child is just "reacting to the needle".

It is "normal" to be afraid of shots. But what they are missing is the diagnosis of overt neuropathy, encephalitis or brain dysfunction, because high pitched crying is not normal. Brain damage from vaccines is epidemic and yet, doctors are slow to diagnose neurological disorders (in US) when vaccinations are at stake but we see many citations linking changes (for the worse) after vaccinations are given.

Ted Koren, DC stated, "Dyslexia, minimal brain damage, ADD, autism, allergies, visual and many other neurologic diseases grouped together as "developmental disabilities," barely existed before mass vaccination programs. Probably twenty percent of American children-one youngster in five-suffers from a 'developmental disability.' This is a stupefying figure Developmental disabilities" are nearly always generated by encephalitis. And the primary cause of encephalitis in the United States and other industrialized countries is the childhood vaccination program.

To be specific, a large proportion of the millions of U.S. children and adults suffering from autism, seizures, mental retardation, hyperactivity, dyslexia, and other developmental disabilities, owe their disorders to one or another of the vaccines against childhood diseases." [Emphasis mine.]

Some 40-50 years ago children were not vaccinated until they were ready for the first grade at age 6. Neurological disorders were very uncommon then. Today, children are vaccinated at birth for HiB and begin their long vaccination-journey at 2 months of age, before the blood brain barrier is fully developed. A review of the medical literature around the world will turn up many articles linking vaccinations with many neurological disorders. Before the 1940s, autism was extremely rare or unheard of. Then in the mid-1940s we began a massive vaccination programs and autism was "born". At first, it only occurred in the children of wealthy parents, since vaccinations were not free or government sponsored like today. Later autism became a disease of all classes (with government-sponsored vaccine programs).

The psychiatrists had a hay-day with autism and at first they called it the "Refrigerator-Mother Syndrome". They said the mother had a "cold" heart causing the child to be autistic and withdrawn. Yet, studies did not support this theory, since many families had only one autistic child among several normal children. The point they missed was that it was the Doctor's cold needles that caused the problem, not the mother's cold heart.

"The strongest link was between measles virus antibodies and anti-MBP, suggesting that exposure to the measles virus may cause the immune systems of children with autism to attack myelin," Singh said. Children with autism produce anti-bodies against their own brain, making autism an auto-immune condition. "Singh compiled a nonscientific, anecdotal survey of 88 autistic children whose families have contacted him. Of those, 51 percent said symptoms of autism began shortly after the MMR vaccination, and 36 percent said the problems started days after the DPT shot." Anecdotal evidence over-whelmingly points to vaccines as causing autism. The connect between autism and vaccinations can not be denied.

The pertussis vaccine is very neurotoxic and is used in the laboratory to produce brain lesions in lab animals for study. But if our child develops brain problems after a DPT vaccination, our doctor will tell us it is coincidence or genetic. Vaccinations have been known to increase the demyelination, a process related to many neurologic diseases and MS is a demyelination disease. Myelin is designed to protect the outer coating of neurons, much like the plastic outer coating over an electrical wire. When this myelin is damaged, neurological disorders, such as, MS, paralysis, or ALS, will result. (Singh mentioned autism as a result of demyelination disorder.) The nerves are short-circuited and do not function normally.

The encephalitis form vaccinations is much more prevalent than we would like to realize, since all vaccines are neurotoxic to begin with. That one child develops encephalopathies from a vaccine and another remains "normal" is not the issue. All children are affected, but some are affected more than others. For example, if a child develops uncontrolled high pitched crying after a vaccine is given, that is written off as a normal reaction and is even listed in medical texts as such. But if that same child has a slower speech development, slower learning (which is so common today), or slower ability in walking, who would know. Unvaccinated children walk sooner, talk sooner, and have a high degree of manual dexterity at an earlier age.

Their minds are not assaulted by the neurotoxins that most "normal" children receive. Vaccinations cause the brain to swell and that is "encephalitis", regardless of diagnosis. During the period after vaccines are given children often lose their soft spot in their cranium, as the swelling increases. Why would one's brain swell after vaccines were given? The four points of infection are pain (dolor), redness (color), fever (rubor) and swelling (tumor). Infections of the brain might produce these same points too.

http://www.mercola.com/article/vaccines/...damage.htm

[clever alias]

mercola is a total hack. Evidence: He promotes on Dr. Oz, who is also a total hack. Also, he's been warned by the FDA several times for making outrageous claims and misleading information.

but then once again, this is no a longer an issue of science, but upon political leanings. Far more studies have been done by far more groups saying that vaccines are safe. But if someone does not trust the FDA, WHO, AMA, and so forth, then those studies will be dismissed. Likewise, if someone supports Alex Jones (who, if memory serves, is an advocate of mercola), then they will accept what Mercola says.

[Alpharius]

[Walderschmidt]

(03-25-2014 10:50 PM)clever alias Wrote:  

mercola is a total hack. Evidence: He promotes on Dr. Oz, who is also a total hack. Also, he's been warned by the FDA several times for making outrageous claims and misleading information.

but then once again, this is no a longer an issue of science, but upon political leanings. Far more studies have been done by far more groups saying that vaccines are safe. But if someone does not trust the FDA, WHO, AMA, and so forth, then those studies will be dismissed. Likewise, if someone supports Alex Jones (who, if memory serves, is an advocate of mercola), then they will accept what Mercola says.

I'm not very familiar with Mercola.

But I do not trust the FDA. Or the average doctor. Or the average American.

My big point on here, is that time and time again, it seems the manosphere holds views on women that the majority do not hold, yet we few do better with women then the majority as well.

Why can you guys not fathom this to be true for medicine? Or other parts of life?

Wald