[Dusty]

[JoyStick]

(03-11-2014 09:27 AM)ASOT Wrote:  

Reuters is reporting the plane was tracked by Malaysian military flying at a lower altitude over the Malacca Straits after turning around past Kota Bharu (on the east coast). It is reported its transponders and tracking systems were turned off and thus it was only able to be tracked by military primary radar, hence why it went missing from civilian secondary trackers. It is not clear from the reporting whether it was tracked having dropped 1000m (3000ft) from its cruising altitude, or whether it was tracked at an altitude of 1000m.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/1...5520140311

If you consider this fact then this map will show the entire range it could have reached with its fuel load.

This certainly leaves open speculation to conspiracy. But a more straight forward turn of events proposed by a pprune member seems possible:
-A bomb or fire crippled the comms, tracking systems and/or mechanical systems but left the plane flyable.
-At an altitude of 35000 ft the pilots turned back to land.
-The nearest east coast airports WMKN/TGG & WMKC/KBR may have been too close to safely descend and land given the fact it was night and the possible state the plane was in.
-Thus the pilots made the turn and track towards the west coast whilst descending with the intention to land at WMKP/PEN (Penang) or WMKK/KUL (Kuala Lumpur). KUL has well known procedures for making a landing in a situation of lost radio communications.
-At some point in the emergency approach things may have taken a turn for the worse and the plane ended up crashed into the water.

If you assume this then the plane could be anywhere from 25m to 100m under water. Given the Asian idea of saving face, Malaysia might have withheld this information having considered the idea of China or Vietnam discovering the wreckage a huge embarrassment and much worse than delaying the truth for a few days.






Now for some RVF related revelations. A woman has come forward to say that the copilot had invited them into the cockpit on a previous flight.

“Throughout the entire flight they were talking to us and they were actually smoking throughout the flight which I don’t think they’re allowed to do,” Ms Roos said.

“They were so engaged in conversation that he took my friends hand and he was looking at her palm and said ‘your hand is very creased. That means you’re a very creative person’ and commented on her nail polish.”

(Palm reading game recognised)

Mr Hamid identified the South African natives as they waited in the boarding queue at Phuket airport in December 2011.

As they took their seats on the aircraft, an air steward approached the women and invited them to join the pilots in the cockpit.

Massive DHV

Hopefully these womanizing pilots are chilling at some secret poosy paradise somewhere.

[big poppa]

Honestly can't wrap my head around this and what happened.

My theory is an explosion in or near the cockpit that damaged the structure of the plane and severely injured/killed the pilots. Either a pilot or another crew member made an effort to turn the plane around and land it at the closest airport, perhaps they fell unconscious due to the smoke throughout the cabin.. Plane glided across Malaysia before eventually crashing somewhere in the Malacca strait, sinking straight to the bottom (which could be as deep as 1.5km)

I'm probably way off but there you go. I don't buy the pilot suicide/terrorist theories.

Is it possible for communication systems to fail given an explosion in/near the cock pit?

[big poppa]

Now you can help search for the aircraft.

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/mala.../map/22632

[bojangles]

(03-11-2014 05:32 PM)Espresso Wrote:  

(03-11-2014 03:26 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Of course the random plane on radar would get checked out. But somehow it also disappeared off radar also. Reasonably, it probably crashed. But if somehow it flew to a spot to land undetected,

Was it ever being tracked by radar over the sea, in the traditional sense of the word? I think the plane was actively sending out signals with its transponder, and that's how the they were 'tracking' it. Not by the ground stations sending out signals and looking at the reflection from the planes. So it's not that the plane suddenly disappeared, but that it suddenly stopped emitting it's own signal.

But apparently the Malaysian military independently picked up the plane on its own radar (by sending out signals and looking at the reflections from everything around) and that's where the reports of the plane's further movements came from.

At least so is my understanding.

I think you're right here, that's what we've learned so far though the press conference today has just added to the confusion

[AntiTrace]

In the movie Con Air they took the transponder out of an aircraft and wired it into a different plane, causing the authorities to track down the bogus plane while they made an escape.

I don't know the feasibility of that, but that would make for a hell of a story. Regardless something will probably turn up, it will just take a while. The search area is around 27,000 sq miles. That's a massive area to be searched for what now may be nothing more than a couple pieces of floating debris. It may even take a two year search like the Air France flight did.

[Stun]

Has China lifted a finger yet in the search and rescue effort, given the number of Chinese citizens on board? And if not, where is the public and media outcry?

Can you imagine a plane of US citizens headed to the US vanishing, and the gov't not doing anything? They'd call for Obama's head on a stick.

[samsamsam]

Yes, China has put in many resources. A quick search shows this for today "Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: China deploys 10 satellites to help air-and-sea search"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-11/ch...er/5312848

From what I have gathered, China is very protective of its citizens and has no problem using force. Part of it is to show the world what a power it is.

It also doesn't mind using force on its own people.

Sort of like, only we are allowed to hurt our own people.

[ASOT]

Something interesting I read on pprune:

Quote:

spmd11:

I don't normally speculate (I'm a heavy Captain for a US airline with a lot of overwater experience in an ac like the 777), but I will add this, with CPDLC, HF, VHF, ACARS and SATCOM, I'll find some way to get a message out under duress.. especially CPDLC, for it's a couple of key strokes.. would take me.. 5 seconds, tops
my theories fall into these two areas:
1. Hi-jack (terrorism from outside or crew)
2. Hypoxia event leading to incapacitation of all life on board.. (has happened in the past)

(03-12-2014 10:24 AM)Sugar Wrote:  

Has China lifted a finger yet in the search and rescue effort, given the number of Chinese citizens on board? And if not, where is the public and media outcry?

Can you imagine a plane of US citizens headed to the US vanishing, and the gov't not doing anything? They'd call for Obama's head on a stick.

I believe China had ships and/or aircraft in the Gulf of Thailand where the initial search effort was concentrated. Not sure whats happening now. And yes, I could imagine a plane of US citizens heading to the US vanishing and the govt not doing anything. Just like when the diplomats in Libya were under attack and the government failed to send reinforcements. It is unlikely though but combine the right combination of bureaucratic incompetence, with the right combination of potential political gain or loss and its certainly possible.

[ASOT]

Another interesting thought

Quote:

I am still puzzled about the two individuals with the stolen European passports being portraied by the Malaysian authorities as innocent refugees from Iran, one who was going to visit his mother living in Francfort.

a) They bought their tickets together in Thailand against cash paid by 3rd person, who has not been found and questioned so far.
b) They made their way into Malaysia well before the departure of MH 370.
c) They were travelling on fake European passports, supplied by " human trafficker ring" based in SE-Asia
d) They definitely would be immediately arrested when arriving in AMS showing their stolen passports which are in the Schengen database and possibly be sent back. Don't think that they were not aware of this. In short they would never made it to their final destinations in CPH or FRA.
e) Dutch border officers speak very well German and regularly extend a friendly greeting to you, so you must speak perfect flawless German ( Austrian ) to pass this hurdle especially using a surname which is only common in small area in Austia.

I think that wer are mislead by the authorities ( who admitted that they failed to connect into the Interpol database ) for reasons I don't know.
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/53553...ost8369337

[Stun]

(03-12-2014 11:07 AM)ASOT Wrote:  

Something interesting I read on pprune:

Quote:

spmd11:

I don't normally speculate (I'm a heavy Captain for a US airline with a lot of overwater experience in an ac like the 777), but I will add this, with CPDLC, HF, VHF, ACARS and SATCOM, I'll find some way to get a message out under duress.. especially CPDLC, for it's a couple of key strokes.. would take me.. 5 seconds, tops
my theories fall into these two areas:
1. Hi-jack (terrorism from outside or crew)
2. Hypoxia event leading to incapacitation of all life on board.. (has happened in the past)

(03-12-2014 10:24 AM)Sugar Wrote:  

Has China lifted a finger yet in the search and rescue effort, given the number of Chinese citizens on board? And if not, where is the public and media outcry?

Can you imagine a plane of US citizens headed to the US vanishing, and the gov't not doing anything? They'd call for Obama's head on a stick.

I believe China had ships and/or aircraft in the Gulf of Thailand where the initial search effort was concentrated. Not sure whats happening now. And yes, I could imagine a plane of US citizens heading to the US vanishing and the govt not doing anything. Just like when the diplomats in Libya were under attack and the government failed to send reinforcements. It is unlikely though but combine the right combination of bureaucratic incompetence, with the right combination of potential political gain or loss and its certainly possible.

If you are referring to the Benghazi attack, I would be wary of international news sources as few foreign reporters were on the ground at the time in Libya. Regarding the compound it was protected by both US and friendly Libyan guards. While the investigation is not complete, the attack seems to have been very sudden (one Libyan guard said "there wasn't a single ant outside) and the US has spent thousands of hours and untold millions investigating it and trying to ensure something like this doesn't happen again.

I don't mean to sound callous, as four people were killed, but if anything the gov't IMO has spent *too many* resources doing this investigation.

If it was one of my friends that was killed I would want answers, but at what cost? Just tighten up security in these situations and ensure something like this doesn't happen again.

[LeBeau]

This is getting weirder:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/missing-malaysi...ml#2dGJM1P

Quote:

The mystery surrounding the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has deepened with the Chinese media reporting that several of the passengers' mobile phones were connecting when called by relatives, but the calls were not picked up.

Quote:

The Strait Times reported that many of the family members told MAS commercial director Hugh Dunleavy that the commuters' mobile phones were ringing but they were not picked up.

To this, Dunleavy replied that MAS was calling the mobile phones of the crew members as well, which were ringing, and that he had given the numbers to Chinese investigators.

Quote:

19 families have signed a joint statement saying that their family members' cell phones connected, but the calls hung up. The relatives have asked Malaysia Airlines to reveal any information they might be hiding, seeking an explanation for the eerie phone connections. The relatives have complained that the Malaysina Airlines is not responding as actively as it should.

Angry family members also threw water bottles at an MAS spokesman and threatened to protest in front of the Malaysian embassy in China if the airlines did not "disclose" the "truth".

So that's a pretty significant number, it seems like it would be beyond chance that so many phones would still be intact after falling from the sky, or a crash into water/land.

Any thoughts?

[Hotwheels]

[Espresso]

^^

I don't get it, if the phone's are ringing, can't the phone companies just tell us where the phones are??

[MidniteSpecial]

They debunked that saying phones call stil ring while off.

I don't know about you but whenever my phone is off it goes straight to voicemail.

[Espresso]

From bbc news:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26554875

"Satellite images of possible debris from the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 have been released on a Chinese government website."







"China has deployed several high-resolution satellites - controlled from the Xian Satellite Control Centre in northern China - to help search for the jet"

"The photographs of the three objects, the largest of which measures around 24 metres by 22 metres, were taken on Sunday, the day after the plane vanished, but were only published on Wednesday."

[MHaes]

^Not true, mine rings sometimes for the full time even if my phone is shut off.

[Hotwheels]

(03-12-2014 10:08 PM)Espresso Wrote:  

From bbc news:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26554875

"Satellite images of possible debris from the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 have been released on a Chinese government website."







"China has deployed several high-resolution satellites - controlled from the Xian Satellite Control Centre in northern China - to help search for the jet"

"The photographs of the three objects, the largest of which measures around 24 metres by 22 metres, were taken on Sunday, the day after the plane vanished, but were only published on Wednesday."

China has a ways to go with their spy satellite technology it seems.

Hell, we had better shots of Cuba back in 62.

[speakeasy]

I'll tell you what I don't believe. I don't believe an 11-year old 777 just plunged into the ocean without warning. I think the 777 has the best safety record of any jumbo jet out there. It's been around 20 years now with no deaths to date caused by mechanical problems. It's very very unlikely the plane just broke apart.

What I don't understand is how they haven't found a beacon from the black box. The ocean around that region is shallow. It shouldn't take long to find it...unless the plane isn't actually under water and is somewhere on land. There are a shitload of islands in the area, but I don't know how many have runways that could support such a heavy jet.

I feel almost sure there was something deliberate here. That transponder had to be turned off. It couldn't be power failure, they have triple redundancy.

[LeBeau]

(03-12-2014 09:54 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

They debunked that saying phones call stil ring while off.

I don't know about you but whenever my phone is off it goes straight to voicemail.

Yeah the articles I read would have been better had they explained how a phone can still do that, I always thought the same, that it just goes to voicemail or says it's not valid.

[KC4]

Any updates on the situation? Did the plane crash or get hijacked?

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I don't see the problem with China's satellite imagery. What do you want it to be, a super-clear ambilight HD video? From what I've seen, no satellite around (we're not talking spy planes or drones here) produces much more detailed photos. Just look at this:

http://www.space.com/11543-osama-bin-lad...hotos.html

[Vicious]

Reuters now confirms that Jezebel editor Lindy West was on board. She couldn't fit in the seats. Her rage tore the plane apart in mid-air.

[speakeasy]

It's looking more and more like a deliberate act:

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/03/13/us-...separately

Either the plane is at some hidden location or it was a pilot suicide.

[MidniteSpecial]

Cool article:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2568713