[Laurifer]

When Dan Bilzerian was interviewed by Howard stern about his plane, he immediately mentions how he didn't realize how expensive it really was to own one. He said everything he wanted to put inside of it had to be made twice, one to fire test and the other to actually use in his jet. This is a guy with a purported net worth of $100 million complaining about the cost of owning a jet.

[FlyBoy]

(05-29-2015 10:47 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

It seems insane to me to sink a couple million a year into a jet. Just doesn't seem sustainable or prudent.

Assuming that capital yields about 4% in spendable income after inflation, taxes, etc are taken out, the maintenance and operation of a jet ties up the investment income of 50 MM in liquid assets, nearly double the threshold for UHNW. And all of it spent on a single form of transportation.

Run two scenarios. One scenario where you let that 50 MM grow for a decade and reinvest the income, and one where you use it to have a jet. Two very different results.

You are absolutely right V^4! A personal jet can under no circumstance be justified financially. Governments and businesses can sometimes justify the cost of a private jet but certainly not individuals.

A jet is a status symbol just like a yacht, big house or a 2 mil complicated mechanical watch. At the end of the day they are 'fuck you' statements.

I must admit, I am twice prejudiced on this subject. I am pro airplane ownership, because I am and have been crazy about airplanes all my life. Secondly, I am against the money junkie creed, whereby every decision one takes has lead to an increase in his wealth. If you are not going to enjoy your wealth, then what good is it.

[Gringuito]

(05-29-2015 02:18 PM)FlyBoy Wrote:  

(05-29-2015 10:47 AM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

It seems insane to me to sink a couple million a year into a jet. Just doesn't seem sustainable or prudent.

Assuming that capital yields about 4% in spendable income after inflation, taxes, etc are taken out, the maintenance and operation of a jet ties up the investment income of 50 MM in liquid assets, nearly double the threshold for UHNW. And all of it spent on a single form of transportation.

Run two scenarios. One scenario where you let that 50 MM grow for a decade and reinvest the income, and one where you use it to have a jet. Two very different results.

You are absolutely right V^4! A personal jet can under no circumstance be justified financially. Governments and businesses can sometimes justify the cost of a private jet but certainly not individuals.

A jet is a status symbol just like a yacht, big house or a 2 mil complicated mechanical watch. At the end of the day they are 'fuck you' statements.

I must admit, I am twice prejudiced on this subject. I am pro airplane ownership, because I am and have been crazy about airplanes all my life. Secondly, I am against the money junkie creed, whereby every decision one takes has lead to an increase in his wealth. If you are not going to enjoy your wealth, then what good is it.

Owning a jet starts making sense when you're worth 9 figures. At that point your time becomes more valuable than anything else. For wealthy people that are also public figures privacy becomes important. The only way to justify owning a jet is if the time it saves you is more important than the mountain of $$$ it costs to own and maintain. The status symbol part wears off very quickly. It just becomes a tool to get you from one place to another very efficiently.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(05-29-2015 02:18 PM)FlyBoy Wrote:  

You are absolutely right V^4! A personal jet can under no circumstance be justified financially. Governments and businesses can sometimes justify the cost of a private jet but certainly not individuals.

A jet is a status symbol just like a yacht, big house or a 2 mil complicated mechanical watch. At the end of the day they are 'fuck you' statements.

I must admit, I am twice prejudiced on this subject. I am pro airplane ownership, because I am and have been crazy about airplanes all my life. Secondly, I am against the money junkie creed, whereby every decision one takes has lead to an increase in his wealth. If you are not going to enjoy your wealth, then what good is it.

I think it is important to enjoy your wealth, but to do it in a way that is sustainable. Many families don't do this, and typically by the 3rd or 4th generation they are back to the workaday world and struggling.

Sometimes this can happen in a single generation in the span of 10 or 20 years when someone is especially foolhardy.

I think it is important to provide for future generations and set an example of prudence.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

(05-29-2015 01:56 PM)Laurifer Wrote:  

When Dan Bilzerian was interviewed by Howard stern about his plane, he immediately mentions how he didn't realize how expensive it really was to own one. He said everything he wanted to put inside of it had to be made twice, one to fire test and the other to actually use in his jet. This is a guy with a purported net worth of $100 million complaining about the cost of owning a jet.

Dan Bilzerian is full of shit.

He is worth nowhere near as much as he claims. He is listed at 100 MM net worth on Wikpedia, and the source is none other than a horribly written Daily Fail tabloid article - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...style.html.

His father is Paul Bilzerian, a convicted felon and financial criminal who has twice declared bankruptcy.

In series of shady deals in the 1980s, his father may have made something close to a total of 100MM.

Dan likes to imply that his family somehow has all this and more safely stashed away.

Bullshit. The government has looked at them hard.

Using some family law and Florida bankruptcy homestead exemptions, they have managed to protect a few million in assets, nothing more.

Dan has made a career out of trying to look like a baller on Instagram. It was all smoke and mirrors, but people bought it. Show enough of the outward signs, count on people not scratching the surface to see what's underneath, and with a few hundred grand you can make people think you're wealthy. And now he is famous enough that he actually makes pretty decent money.

[FlyBoy]

(05-29-2015 02:32 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

Owning a jet starts making sense when you're worth 9 figures. At that point your time becomes more valuable than anything else. For wealthy people that are also public figures privacy becomes important. The only way to justify owning a jet is if the time it saves you is more important than the mountain of $$$ it costs to own and maintain. The status symbol part wears off very quickly. It just becomes a tool to get you from one place to another very efficiently.

I heard this argument before but I am not convinced. If one is a CEO of a growing company that has to be in a 100 places now, then yes, his time is valuable. However, that's business usage not personal. On the other hand if one is a 50 y/o semiretired 200 millionaire, then what difference does it make if he arrives in Aspen at 3pm or 5pm. Certainly not enough to justify the enormous cost of having a plane.

I certainly understand the need for privacy that some may have. Still, that need however important can not be a rational driver for jet acquisition. A public figure may have an extreme need for privacy but only flys twice a year. Such people would be better off chartering and or buying a jet card.

Yes, I agree, all status symbols wear off quickly!! I hope I didn't come across as saying that a jet is nothing but a show off piece. Business jets are very valuable tools for the companies that own and use them. Likewise a private jet is a convenient, efficient and indeed enjoyable mode of transportation for its UHNWI. Be that as it may, the latter usage can not be financially justified. That's not saying much of course, after all, we engage in many things that can not be justified; women, kids, caviar, etc .. lol

[Hotwheels]

(05-29-2015 03:51 PM)FlyBoy Wrote:  

On the other hand if one is a 50 y/o semiretired 200 millionaire, then what difference does it make if he arrives in Aspen at 3pm or 5pm. Certainly not enough to justify the enormous cost of having a plane.

If one has 200 really large, yeah, I can see having a private jet to save the time.

And it's not only the time, it's the headaches with TSA you are avoiding. Jet in. Jet out. 200 large makes life fairly easy.


Saying that, I have no reason to buy one other than stroking my own junk. And like I also said; Buying a nice car would be the better move. My family is not spread out at all. On the flip side, a jet would be nice for some business travel but really not worth it. I do travel about the upper midwest a LOT.

My accountant might be able to a make a very weak argument if i asked him to, but he knows as well as I do. It's really not worth it for me.

Understand, while it may not be worth it for me, that does not mean it's not sensible for someone else.

Actually, a prop plane may work very well for my needs. Not as sexy as a jet granted, however it may fit the biz well as I am all over the northern states. And you can land a prop plane anywhere. Unfortunately there are no rental cars in Tracy MN....

Hotwheels doesn't need to flaunt the shit hard. Hell, I drive a 09 Avalanche.

It's not what you have. It's how you carry yourself.

[Gringuito]

(05-29-2015 03:51 PM)FlyBoy Wrote:  

I heard this argument before but I am not convinced. If one is a CEO of a growing company that has to be in a 100 places now, then yes, his time is valuable. However, that's business usage not personal. On the other hand if one is a 50 y/o semiretired 200 millionaire, then what difference does it make if he arrives in Aspen at 3pm or 5pm. Certainly not enough to justify the enormous cost of having a plane.

I certainly understand the need for privacy that some may have. Still, that need however important can not be a rational driver for jet acquisition. A public figure may have an extreme need for privacy but only flys twice a year. Such people would be better off chartering and or buying a jet card.

Yes, I agree, all status symbols wear off quickly!! I hope I didn't come across as saying that a jet is nothing but a show off piece. Business jets are very valuable tools for the companies that own and use them. Likewise a private jet is a convenient, efficient and indeed enjoyable mode of transportation for its UHNWI. Be that as it may, the latter usage can not be financially justified. That's not saying much of course, after all, we engage in many things that can not be justified; women, kids, caviar, etc .. lol

FlyBoy try to look at it this way. I like your example of 200M and 50 yo semi-retired. In this case assume the that money is mostly liquid with about 25% in closely held companies but 75% available for investing. Also assume that he spends about 1-1.5% each year on expenses. The return on investments after taxes and inflation is still above the amount he spends each year. This 2M-3M he has available each year can be spent in any way he wants without risking the principal and continuing to grow his net worth.

The maintenance on owning a jet would be 25-40% of his yearly money available to spend. At the end of the day if comes down to how to use that money to make a fulfilling life. If the guy in this example likes to scuba dive, snowboard, travel, and visit family and friends then a jet would come in quite handy. Especially if those things were spread out and not close to commercial airports. For example. it's not economically justifiable to donate a good portion of each years money to charity but if this 50 yo wants to he can. It's better than filling a house with whores and being Instagram "famous" like Dan Blitz.

Hotwheels, if you're ever in South Florida send me a PM. I can show you around a bit. You know what's better than owning a jet? Knowing someone that owns a jet.

[Menace]

I would like a tour of your jet as well. And I'm in south Florida semi frequently.

[Hotwheels]

(05-30-2015 08:17 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  

Hotwheels, if you're ever in South Florida send me a PM. I can show you around a bit. You know what's better than owning a jet? Knowing someone that owns a jet.

Sounds like a plan. Haven't hit Miami in 5 or 6 years. Might be time to broaden my horizons again.

Just know I'm not cosmopolitan. Think El Mech minus the proclivity for brawling.

[tarquin]

For those in the know, is the increased flying speed of a jet worth the cost over, say an upgraded Cessna 414? I'm not in a position for either, but I enjoy the dream.

[FlyBoy]

(05-31-2015 08:32 AM)tarquin Wrote:  

For those in the know, is the increased flying speed of a jet worth the cost over, say an upgraded Cessna 414? I'm not in a position for either, but I enjoy the dream.

It depends on your mission. How many people do you intend to carry with you, on average? How far do you want to go, on average?

A twin piston (or a turboprop, either a single such as the PC 12, or a twin such as the King Air) is almost always a better deal than a small jet.

So, what's the typical mission you dream about?

[Gringuito]

(05-31-2015 08:32 AM)tarquin Wrote:  

For those in the know, is the increased flying speed of a jet worth the cost over, say an upgraded Cessna 414? I'm not in a position for either, but I enjoy the dream.

FlyBoy gave a great answer. I would only add that a jet in general will be a much safer plane to own. As always, the missions that you plan to fly dictate the types of aircraft you should be looking at.

Menace, send me a PM.

[tarquin]

(05-31-2015 09:16 AM)FlyBoy Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 08:32 AM)tarquin Wrote:  

For those in the know, is the increased flying speed of a jet worth the cost over, say an upgraded Cessna 414? I'm not in a position for either, but I enjoy the dream.

It depends on your mission. How many people do you intend to carry with you, on average? How far do you want to go, on average?

A twin piston (or a turboprop, either a single such as the PC 12, or a twin such as the King Air) is almost always a better deal than a small jet.

So, what's the typical mission you dream about?

I really have enjoyed a few videos by this one gentleman. He originally had a Baron g58, but recently purchased the Cessna 414 and had it upgraded. A King Air would be great, but I doubt that I will ever be able to afford such a plane.

Landing on Saint Barts is definitely in my dream flight. Skip to 6 minutes if you want to see the landing.

[djk100]

(05-30-2015 08:17 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  

(05-29-2015 03:51 PM)FlyBoy Wrote:  

I heard this argument before but I am not convinced. If one is a CEO of a growing company that has to be in a 100 places now, then yes, his time is valuable. However, that's business usage not personal. On the other hand if one is a 50 y/o semiretired 200 millionaire, then what difference does it make if he arrives in Aspen at 3pm or 5pm. Certainly not enough to justify the enormous cost of having a plane.

I certainly understand the need for privacy that some may have. Still, that need however important can not be a rational driver for jet acquisition. A public figure may have an extreme need for privacy but only flys twice a year. Such people would be better off chartering and or buying a jet card.

Yes, I agree, all status symbols wear off quickly!! I hope I didn't come across as saying that a jet is nothing but a show off piece. Business jets are very valuable tools for the companies that own and use them. Likewise a private jet is a convenient, efficient and indeed enjoyable mode of transportation for its UHNWI. Be that as it may, the latter usage can not be financially justified. That's not saying much of course, after all, we engage in many things that can not be justified; women, kids, caviar, etc .. lol

FlyBoy try to look at it this way. I like your example of 200M and 50 yo semi-retired. In this case assume the that money is mostly liquid with about 25% in closely held companies but 75% available for investing. Also assume that he spends about 1-1.5% each year on expenses. The return on investments after taxes and inflation is still above the amount he spends each year. This 2M-3M he has available each year can be spent in any way he wants without risking the principal and continuing to grow his net worth.

The maintenance on owning a jet would be 25-40% of his yearly money available to spend. At the end of the day if comes down to how to use that money to make a fulfilling life. If the guy in this example likes to scuba dive, snowboard, travel, and visit family and friends then a jet would come in quite handy. Especially if those things were spread out and not close to commercial airports. For example. it's not economically justifiable to donate a good portion of each years money to charity but if this 50 yo wants to he can. It's better than filling a house with whores and being Instagram "famous" like Dan Blitz.

Hotwheels, if you're ever in South Florida send me a PM. I can show you around a bit. You know what's better than owning a jet? Knowing someone that owns a jet.

I heard that those who are worth 9 figures create their own family offices. So, gringuito, how was the process of setting up a family office?

[Gringuito]

(06-06-2015 06:50 PM)djk100 Wrote:  

I heard that those who are worth 9 figures create their own family offices. So, gringuito, how was the process of setting up a family office?

I believe that I've written about family offices in investing threads on this forum, do a search of my history. It's a bit off topic for this thread. If you have a specific question, send me a PM.

[Cobra]

(05-21-2015 12:49 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Thread about jet ownership gets started by a big-baller-troll who is later banned for his big-baller wannabe behaviour.

Later, an actual multimillionaire jet owner comments on that thread and provides excellent information to the forum.

I love the RVF.

Yes, this thread has it all. Big Baller Troll (who gave me my first rep point) and actual decent advice into not only Jets but also what being rich and independent means (and how that's not what everyone thinks it means). I wish the latter would be expanded into another thread.

The likelihood of me ever owning a jet is minimal. Number one because I am definitely not on the path of making such large investments and number two my priorities are steered more towards the "next steps" and short term results in that path to make my business more effective and efficient rather than picture the long term results. I will flesh out my longer term goals and results based on my shorter term successes which I still need. Relative to these next steps, owning a Jet is a thousand steps ahead of that if it even exists.

My point is that young guys get lost in the the very visual and overwhelming nature of status symbols and long term results, forgetting that these in fact are just that, status symbols, not "effort" symbols and certainly not indicative of the blood and sweat as well as intelligence needed in that effort. Our media machine makes effort less significant than it is by focusing more on the symbolic results and not the effort.

I think traditional education provides access to individuals you otherwise wouldn't have but what you do with that access is still a result of many factors, including proper mentorship, a healthy mind, tenacity and desire to succeed. These factors push people into the alternate path of being more wealthy. Formal education is at the bottom of this list and not a huge factor in making people rich. Additionally, the idea of a somewhat formal path, like CaliforniaSupreme's also makes people think there is some formula. I don't believe there is one.

All that works is through life and figuring out what your options are as you go and acting on them, rather than relying on your path/plan and getting pissed off it doesn't work, only to go back to the original plan. If anything the formal path in our modern world is built to ensure a projection of safety to people that don't want to work hard and think. Following this path pushes you into a submissive mindset and not a very dominant one.

Definitely need that dominance in order to get to a point that a jet is an optional purchase. I think Gringuito would probably agree.

Edit: Don't mean to derail this thread but to me a thread about buying Jets made me think of what the fuck I'm doing in this world. Yes, I also love RVF.

[CuntLord]

(06-07-2015 11:49 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

.....forgetting that these in fact are just that, status symbols, not "effort" symbols and certainly not indicative of the blood and sweat as well as intelligence needed in that effort. Our media machine makes effort less significant than it is by focusing more on the symbolic results and not the effort.

People care more about "events" than they care about "process".

Process is hardwork, the sweat, the discipline, the years of grinding it out. That is not appealing.

Event is magically winning the lottery instead of working your butt off to become rich; event is running into a multimillionaire and getting him to put a ring on it; event is getting "discovered" for a movie role while shopping at trader's joe or posting a random video and becoming instantly famous on youtube/american idol, etc.

People crave events. Especially women crave events.

This distinction between process and events is also a core distinction between men and women. Men are more process oriented; women are more events oriented.

To women, things just happens. They fell in love. They met a total stranger and sparks flew and butterflies dance, the rainbow and unicorns sing.

To men, they plot, strategize and devise plans to make things happen, they wrote "bang" book series to get their dick wet.

That is why men are more inclined towards engineering, numbers, hard sciences, etc. they deal with the dirty mechanics, the internal workings, the process of something.

Women on the other hand prefer the humanities/liberal arts. sociology, psychology, literature, etc. these things discuss their feelings, the mosh, floating relativism of things.

A woman doesn't care about the ugly dirty details of how the prince gets his power, she just want to marry him and be the princess; but a man on the other hand, is more likely to be interested in the strategies and tactics, so that he can be a prince himself.


Be well,

CuntLord, the Dark Lord of Pussy

[BallsDeep]

(05-31-2015 08:32 AM)tarquin Wrote:  

For those in the know, is the increased flying speed of a jet worth the cost over, say an upgraded Cessna 414? I'm not in a position for either, but I enjoy the dream.

How much slower is a Cessna anyway? I wonder why they're not that common, it's not that they're so expensive like a jet is.

I used to manufacture products for snow resorts, and in the beginning I had to do the selling too and the travel was the worst part of it. Cities in Colorado such as Breckenridge, Rifle, and Telluride. All have airports, but they're tiny and aren't serviced much. I'd fly from NYC to Denver, then have to wait 6 hours for a connecting flight, sometimes overnight. It was a continual clusterfuck. Then getting from Rifle to another resort town in Wyoming would take another full day with connections, so it was faster to drive 8 hours on mountain roads. A plane could do it under an hour.

On another note, I ran into the head coach of a prominent D1 football program in an airport lounge last year. I asked him how he had turned around the recruiting so quickly (he had consecutive top 10 classes) and if it was due to the celebrity father of a player throwing grandiose parties for recruits. He said the biggest single factor was that an alum had allowed his staff the use of a jet for recruiting. Instead of visiting one high school a day in rural parts of Louisiana and Texas, he could visit 4 or 5 by jumping from town to town.

[Gringuito]

(06-10-2015 10:38 AM)BallsDeep Wrote:  

How much slower is a Cessna anyway? I wonder why they're not that common, it's not that they're so expensive like a jet is.

The Cessna 414 tops out at 270 mph. A jet can go about twice as fast. Everything comes down to the mission. If you can fly into a commercial airport and then fly to the high schools within 200 miles then the Cessna will be just fine. If you're flying longer distances then a jet starts saving more time.

[Easy_C]

Also keep in mind that you can rent aircraft as needed. A good number of airports will have at least a Cessna you can pay for hourly so in many cases buying in and then renting a small craft to pond hop around in during your stay is a viable option.

[Saweeep]

Threads like this always remind me, and it's easy to forget, just how vast the US is.

That you need to take planes and drive for 8 hours to get to a school seems unimaginable for a Western European.

Amazing country in so many ways.

[samsamsam]

(05-29-2015 02:44 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

Dan has made a career out of trying to look like a baller on Instagram. It was all smoke and mirrors, but people bought it. Show enough of the outward signs, count on people not scratching the surface to see what's underneath, and with a few hundred grand you can make people think you're wealthy. And now he is famous enough that he actually makes pretty decent money.

I don't want to derail the thread but how does him getting famous on IG convert to actual cash? Maybe answer it in this thread? http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-30193.html

Just curious. With women I see thirsty fucks giving them shit, with guys I am not sure who gives them stuff. Maybe I am just super naive.

[Gringuito]

(06-10-2015 06:42 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I don't want to derail the thread but how does him getting famous on IG convert to actual cash?

Just curious. With women I see thirsty fucks giving them shit, with guys I am not sure who gives them stuff. Maybe I am just super naive.

I personally don't think he's doing it to try to make money. He has the laundered money from his father. He wants to become IG famous to attract the largest number of hookers/gold diggers/porn stars. He also may have self esteem issue since he seems to have a problem with the truth. I don't know him so I could be wrong.

[DVY]

@Gringuito- Nah, just standard variety sucessful gambling degenerate. Gambles, does drugs, sex, kicks it w/friends.

I've heard hes scalped a couple of the high-rollers in the private LA games maybe 9-10 years ago. They were playing something ungodly at the time which was 250/500/1000/1000 (100k min buyin) which turns into a massive game quickly (2MM+ pot). I heard he scooped a few million out of that circle. This was years before Dan Bilzerian was IG superstar.

His LA house in the Hollywood Hills. His house along with most on that street are pretty tiny (by LA standards) except that monster house on the top of the cul-de-sac. A bunch of celebs live there and the street is like a supercar auto-show. Its actually kind of funny, because the drive down to the city is a huge PITA, tons of bumps and uneven roads. Its impossible to drive faster than 5mph on the ups and down there. The bumpers of the cars must be scraping the road BIG TIME.

With the way he spends his $$$$, he needs to be earning. His dad didn't leave him enough to yacht it up, helicopter and private jet everywhere.

There are monster private games being played across the world. Russia, Macau, Dubai. Ultra-rich oligarchs, petrogarchs and kleptocrats who don't even blink an eye at losing 3-5 MM in a night to a bunch of poker "pros". I've heard unconfirmed rumours of 10MM wins and losses in a single night. Totally mindboggling to me. Top it off, most of those games are played with duffel bags of cash.

Edit- Removed his street for privacy reasons. If you know LA, you should know which one it is.