[worldwidetraveler]

(02-06-2014 01:27 PM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  

You really can't see why a person would object to his culture and homeland disappearing without even a fight? I find that hard to believe. A post-nation-state, ultra-capitalist, globalized new world order may be where we're headed, but it's not so fully established that we've lost all sense of what human life was like for the thousands and thousands of years prior to this point.

Community is important. Culture is important. It's very odd, in a historical sense, for people to think of themselves as atomized, distinct individuals without any real connection to anything except those they choose to make.

Fear of large-scale, replacement-level immigration (what's going on in the U.S.) is a deeper, more profound thing than just concern about crappy jobs. It's about the destruction of one's culture and people.

I keep seeing "loss of culture" on the forum but no one answers my questions. Maybe you can help a guy out that is trying to understand. I would love to see any examples of this loss that has happened.

(02-06-2014 12:50 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

I asked this before, what exactly are you trying to preserve? What is American culture? What part of said culture do you fear you will lose because of immigration?

[WestCoast]

I also don't get it either.

Again beyond rampant entitlement due to wealth in the USA.... What exactly has been lost.

Hell I think the guy trying to jump borders to get here is more American than the dude complaining on the Internet about fat bitches in flip flops. I already admit if I was poor in a shit country I would be trying to get access. Because they have no other choice. Cast system in India is another great example if I was at the bottom well fuck me better try and leave. Not sayin we should just let all these people in but the reaction the individual makes is an intelligent one. I would do the exact same, I am not going down without a fight no Fucking way you're stomping on me without literally killing me. I'm gonna try.

To me American culture = grind and do everything you can to reach your potential. As it stands, you are able to do this here. The number of poor to rich people I know is staggering. The number of middle class stay middle class is also staggering. I don't find this to be a coincidence.

[Brosemite]

There's also the issue with the US being a very young country that has seen an abundance of changes from a cultural and technological standpoint in the past 50-100 years. Unfortunately, some things have evolved for the worse (fatties & flats) but all you can do is adapt & survive instead of yearning for say a decade that is long gone.

Whether one likes it or not, the only constant is that nothing has or will continue to stay the same.

[Saga]

(02-06-2014 01:27 PM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  

A post-nation-state, ultra-capitalist, globalized new world order may be where we're headed, but it's not so fully established that we've lost all sense of what human life was like for the thousands and thousands of years prior to this point. Community is important. Culture is important. It's very odd, in a historical sense, for people to think of themselves as atomized, distinct individuals without any real connection to anything except those they choose to make.

I think this argument is very valid, but I think that the loss of identity is primarily self-inflicted: too much technology with too little human interaction, too much feminist "liberation" with too little family, too many traffic jams with too few local institutions. The truth is that we've been an atomized society without any real connections for decades now...immigration didn't do that, let alone a carefully calculated commercial.

I was considering this the other day...the only reason inner-city areas have such a high non-Anglophone demographic is because white Americans (and more recently black Americans) voluntarily moved out of those cities half a century ago. If anything, immigrant enclaves are often the only places you can find a strong sense of community nowadays.

[scorpion]

All or Nothing: If you honestly don't think there are any genetic racial differences between Mestizos, Whites and Arabs then we have nothing to talk about. That's about as ludicrous as claiming that gender is a social construct. That doesn't mean that I think that members of any one group are better than another, just that they are different, and pretending otherwise is simply willful denial of reality, in the same way that feminists willfully deny reality by arguing that women are the same as men minus the dick.

WWT: Look at American culture circa 1900 - 1950, before the sexual revolution, mass immigration, feminism, multiculturalism and other destructive influences came about. Is the decline of American culture due entirely to immigration? Of course not. But immigration is a large part of the problem, simply because it encourages both actively and passively the idea that the existing culture is not worth protecting.

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-06-2014 01:37 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

There's also the issue with the US being a very young country that has seen an abundance of changes from a cultural and technological standpoint in the past 50-100 years. Unfortunately, some things have evolved for the worse (fatties & flip flops) but all you can do is adapt & survive instead of yearning for say a decade that is long gone.

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. Is culture such a static concept that it won't change on it's own even without outside factors like immigration?

I don't see it that way. With technological advancements, we will live differently in 10 years compared to the way we live today.

Is that an immigration thing?

I see the generic concepts being thrown around here about culture and the loss of but no one really explains more about what they fear they will lose.

[soup]

(02-06-2014 01:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Is the decline of American culture due entirely to immigration? Of course not. But immigration is a large part of the problem, simply because it encourages both actively and passively the idea that the existing culture is not worth protecting.

I'd bet the people who were living on this continent when the pilgrims came would have agreed with this statement very strongly.

[scorpion]

(02-06-2014 01:45 PM)soup Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 01:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Is the decline of American culture due entirely to immigration? Of course not. But immigration is a large part of the problem, simply because it encourages both actively and passively the idea that the existing culture is not worth protecting.

I'd bet the people who were living on this continent before the pilgrims came would agree with this statement very strongly.

Very true. Ask Native Americans how well unrestricted immigration by foreigners into their homeland worked out for them.

[WestCoast]

Yeah I don't get it at all. I am not losing anything here.

Bring the smart people in win win to me.

What culture are we protecting? As technology expands and influences the world more and more chicks will become more like the entitled ones here that's the name of the game.

Immigration/worried about border hoppers is a non-concern to me.

---

The naive american comment is comical. So you just stated the USA was built on massive immigration of the strongest and that resulted in the strongest country in history... So by that logic we should continue to bring in the best so we remain the best?

Am I missing something?

[soup]

(02-06-2014 01:47 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 01:45 PM)soup Wrote:  

(02-06-2014 01:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Is the decline of American culture due entirely to immigration? Of course not. But immigration is a large part of the problem, simply because it encourages both actively and passively the idea that the existing culture is not worth protecting.

I'd bet the people who were living on this continent before the pilgrims came would agree with this statement very strongly.

Very true. Ask Native Americans how well unrestricted immigration by foreigners into their homeland worked out for them.

Who's homeland is it?

[WestCoast]

^ yep bring in the best to remain the best.

Trying to protect never works. Grow the talent base always.

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-06-2014 01:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

WWT: Look at American culture circa 1900 - 1950, before the sexual revolution, mass immigration, feminism, multiculturalism and other destructive influences came about. Is the decline of American culture due entirely to immigration? Of course not. But immigration is a large part of the problem, simply because it encourages both actively and passively the idea that the existing culture is not worth protecting.

I guess that is the problem I am having.

Even without immigration I don't believe we would be living the same way as the 1950's. I have no doubt that things change more the more you add to the mix, I wasn't really stating otherwise, but the amount of change is what I am having a problem with.

That is why I don't understand the fear of completely losing your culture.

One of our biggest exports is American culture. Music, movies, food... that in itself brings people to want to live that culture.

From my observations, there is only a small segment of people that want to completely change the culture to fit their views.

[scorpion]

I don't have time to reply to all of you guys individually, I'm procrastinating on some work I need to get done as it is. My general point is simply that large scale immigration will destroy an existing culture and population over time. That's basically the entire story of history. And I reject the view that it is somehow impractical or even immoral for a country to want to preserve its existing population and culture. I don't find the idea of a global mono-culture desirable, I would rather live in a diverse world with distinct people, cultures and countries.

[WestCoast]

^ alright well you have basically proven the point. Bringing in best and brightest (immigration) causes the country to become powerful.

If people believe they can create power without change they are insane. The whole point of power is to have an edge, ie be different and ahead

If you don't bring them in well, they are coming for you anyway ie: how the USA was formed so better to play offense.

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-06-2014 02:05 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

I don't have time to reply to all of you guys individually, I'm procrastinating on some work I need to get done as it is. My general point is simply that large scale immigration will destroy an existing culture and population over time. That's basically the entire story of history. And I reject the view that it is somehow impractical or even immoral for a country to want to preserve its existing population and culture. I don't find the idea of a global mono-culture desirable, I would rather live in a diverse world with distinct people, cultures and countries.

I would be more worried about America culture screwing up other countries than immigration hurting us if what you say matters to you.

[WestCoast]

^ exactly.

This is already happening, other countries look to the USA as the leader in culture music etc.

More likely than not you'll see American culture spread than not... So better get in the winning side of the equation

After coming back from Mexico a girl asked me for my "snapchat"... At that point you have to realize what is going on.

Bring in the talent or get run over.

[darklightdispatch]

(02-06-2014 01:30 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

I keep seeing "loss of culture" on the forum but no one answers my questions. Maybe you can help a guy out that is trying to understand. I would love to see any examples of this loss that has happened.

Take any U.S. city that was 90% white (and had been for generations) 30 years ago and is now 70+% Mexican and other non-assimilated first-gen immigrants. There are plenty that fit this description in California...Anaheim's one I think. It's a totally different place now, obviously. This doesn't mean it's worse. Maybe it's better. Regardless, it certainly isn't the same city.

Honestly, though, I have no personal examples of loss of culture. Like a lot of white American kids, I grew up without any perceived culture beyond what was on TV. My family moved around a lot, sometimes to mostly white places, sometimes to places where there were almost no other white kids. I never gave it much thought growing up. So, in my actual day-to-day experience, immigration hasn't had any negative consequences that I'm aware of.

[Blaster]

(02-06-2014 12:28 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

No. In my opinion you shouldn't be able to buy you way into citizenship. If we actually had a functioning society and educational system in this country we would have no need to import immigrants anyway. If your only focus is on money then you have a point, but for me preserving a country's culture and traditions is more important than "winning" economically (and in our case, "winning" is more like "brutally crushing" every other country). The idea that the U.S. couldn't be wealthy and successful without immigrants is just silly. We were pretty successful pre-1965, wouldn't you say? In fact, relatively we were even more successful than we are now.

In think the advantages of being a bit flexible about immigration outweigh the disadvantages. There's something to be said for someone who wants to immigrate and become a citizen of a new country. I think a rigid exclusionist policy would be self-defeating in the long run. Rigid inflexibility nearly always gives way to natural forces eventually and often catastrophically.

That said: people have every right to protect their homeland from being overrun by immigrants especially illegal ones. They also have the right to protect their communities from excessive competition on the labor market and from overwhelming local politics (see Kiryas Joel for a microcosm).

[soup]

Roosh has written about how he sees American culture starting to get it's grips on more well behaved women in European countries. The rest of the world should be more worried about that ad than the Americans who are complaining.

[WestCoast]

^ glad you guys get it.

You're not going to stop technological advancements and people creating and growing new products and services.

We're not going to be living in the 50s ever again so you better get your ducks in a row.

In 10 years don't be surprised if every chick in Poland or insert pussy paradise has her iphone linked up to snap chat, Instagram, vine, etc.

[All or Nothing]

(02-06-2014 01:41 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

All or Nothing: If you honestly don't think there are any genetic racial differences between Mestizos, Whites and Arabs then we have nothing to talk about. That's about as ludicrous as claiming that gender is a social construct. That doesn't mean that I think that members of any one group are better than another, just that they are different, and pretending otherwise is simply willful denial of reality, in the same way that feminists willfully deny reality by arguing that women are the same as men minus the dick.

Take a look at this this chart:

Taken from this site: http://anthro.palomar.edu/vary/vary_2.htm

This chart is based on the studies performed by population geneticists who studied the genetic differences among the human population and compiled the data. Note how people from Arab lands are considered to be genetically similar enough to people from mainland Europe to be considered a part of the Caucasian race.

I was not talking about mestizos. I was talking about people who immigrate to the United States from Mexico, Central America, and South America whose genetic origins are almost entirely (90%+) Caucasian.

Also, you never addressed the points I made about immigration.

[darklightdispatch]

(02-06-2014 01:51 PM)soup Wrote:  

Who's homeland is it?

It was theirs (Native Americans.) Despite their best efforts, they lost it. The U.S.A was built on the land they formerly controlled by or under the leadership of white people. Military conquering is a legitimate way of gaining a homeland.

One of the unique issues with our current situation is that the pre-1960s U.S. population, both white and black, has been brainwashed into thinking it's good that their communities are being taken over by other groups.

Native Americans tried to fight off the Euro invaders. Romans tried to push back the barbarian hordes. American have somehow been convinced to smile while they're being displaced by other peoples.

[soup]

Ok then does it strike anyone here as hypocritical for land stealers to complain about other people trying to steal "their" land?

[WestCoast]

Again I fear more the loss of power.

I will choose changes in "culture" any day of the week because cultures always evolve and change. You can't prevent technological innovation or women's hypergamy.

Soo you should really realize the following
1. Other countries will adopt American ways
2. Better to be the leader than behind the pack

Women are just women and will do whatever their environment allows, the USA is showing you what places like EE and SA will be like in a couple decades. Adapt or complain, the choice is yours it's happening people

All that said I still don't know what culture I am trying to protect. Based on many posts and interactions around here I actually have more in common with the border jumping insane workaholic.

[Blaster]

(02-06-2014 02:33 PM)soup Wrote:  

Ok then does it strike anyone here as hypocritical for land stealers to complain about other people trying to steal "their" land?

Not a very clear hypocrisy. If you believe people have a right to defend their homeland then it's completely consistent. The fact that the Native Americans failed to defend their homeland doesn't necessarily make the European-American descendents "land stealers" and doesn't reflect hypocrisy.

In fact the hypocrisy is people advocating multiculturalism for others while, through their own actions, defending their own ethnic enclaves.