[Sp5]

I remember Coke did something like this before, in a famous 1971 ad:

These ads aren't about foreigners taking over America, it's about America taking over the world. These large American brands are helped by the US Government, and the brands help the US Government brand.

Invite the world, invade the world, and buy the world a Coke.

[Blaster]

(02-06-2014 02:45 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Just as Native Americans live on reservations under their own norms or what Mormons have done in Utah, there are plenty of communities where Americans can live among relatively likeminded people. If not, there's always taking the overseas route as Roosh has done. Get in where you fit in.

Not sure the Native Americans are a good example. They were effectively subjugated and given the option to assimilate or have limited self-government in limited places they don't get to decide.

Also, Mormons aren't a great example either. They had difficulty to assimilating into American society at the time so they moved into the desert and built a new State from scratch. As mentioned in another thread, this pattern was similar for Germans as well, who mostly settled west of the original 13 colonies.

The question is, should people have a right to object if an ethnic minority overwhelms their community? The way the multicultural propaganda tends to work, you are discouraged from making that objection by being labeled a backwards, racist, xenophobic, faux-patriotic hillbilly. Especially from people living in SWPLvilles where their ethnic group has clear dominance or even complete homogeneity.

I think ethnicity can be examined in a few primary categories: language, religion, ancestry, and customs/values. It's not unreasonable to guess that groups with greater diversity between them along those dimensions will have more difficulty assimilating than groups who are fairly similar. Similarly, groups able to establish larger, more self-sufficient enclaves will feel less pressure to assimilate and adopt local values.

You can find small cities in the US with 4 Catholic Churches. But unless you ask someone whose been around for awhile, it may not be clear why there are so many. It was likely ethnic diversity: one church for the Irish, one for the French, one for the Italians, and one for the Polish. 4 distinct ethnic groups that each lived in their own communities and have their own culture. But they all shared the same religion and had many compatible customs, traditions, and values. Their genetic distance is also relatively small, and the enclaves aren't entirely self-sufficient and have to live and work with the others and are expected to uphold American values in public. In one generation they're all speaking English. That generation starts intermarrying and the genetic differences begin to fade. Customs and cultural traditions blend together, the shared American values override their ancestral values, and they effectively become a new ethnicity of "American Catholic." Furthermore, this blending happened in spite of widespread racism and xenophobia.

Meanwhile if you have a community with a sudden infusion of people who speak a different language, follow a different religion, have substantially different customs and traditions, are a different race, and form resilient self-sufficient enclaves capable of driving out the original inhabitants, you have an entirely different situation than the one I described above where four different compatible and equally-balanced communities blended into one.

[scorpion]

I'm not really seeing much meat in any of the arguments against what I said. No, hispanics are not white, because the vast majority of people who consider themselves hispanic are not from Spain, they're Mestizo. The term hispanic has become sort of meaningless for this reason. And no, Arabs are not white either. Playing word games and calling them Caucasian just makes you look silly. Everyone with a functioning brain and eyeballs can quite clearly differentiate the physical and cultural differences between white Europeans and Arabs/North Africans. Europe is currently in the midst of growing tensions over its immigration issues for this very reason, because its Muslim immigrants are so different from the native Europeans and largely refuse to adopt European cultural norms.

And yes, I'm well aware of the historic struggles between European immigrants in the United States. But by the early 1900s that was mostly settled and the white Europeans had for the most part adopted a new ethnic identity - American. And black Americans descended from slaves had their own unique African American identity as well. My point is simply that the United States of America, from its founding until 1965 was a primarily white European ethnic country with a black minority. Talking about Romans being displaced by German barbarians and Native Americans being displaced by white settlers just proves my point. That sort of thing will happen if you let it. Why should white and black Americans let it happen? Why stand by willingly while the land your ancestors conquered and they society they built is simply handed over to foreigners? It just doesn't make sense. Also, the idea that a country NEEDS immigration in order to sustain itself laughable. All a country needs to sustain itself a birthrate > 2.1 per person. Feminism and a corporate/finance capitalism economy are the reasons why the West is not sustaining that birthrate currently. No country needs immigrants, it simply needs its women to have 2 or more babies.

Also, no one has explained to me why it's perfectly acceptable to displace white and black Americans (and Europeans) with third world immigrants, but no one is clamoring for China, Russia, Israel, Japan and other homogenous countries to open their borders. Do countries have the right to deny immigrants or not? And if not, how is that any different than denying them the right to exist?

[WestCoast]

^ lets see.

Should we encourage wealthy people to come to the USA. Or should we not?

The answer is we should, if we continue to brain drain other countries by bringing in top tier talent the USA will continue to win.

My very close friend makes a KILLING with this model. He brings in only immigrants with net worth if $1M plus into an investment vehicle for citizenship. Game over USA has more money flowing in, more of the rich people flock to the states.

At the end of the day, the goal of capitalism is to problem solve. If your country solved the most problems (USA for the win still destroying on that front) you get all the rewards. Hence why wealth inequality will always continue.

All that said, being in the richest country is always beneficial regardless of your social status. I'd rather be in the bottom 1% in the USA than the bottom 1% anywhere else.

We basically bring in the highest and brightest from other countries and offer them safety in exchange for complete power and domination from a mental capacity and future growth perspective.

We are killing other countries by offering more benefits.

It is safe to be rich in the USA. That's one of the greatest assets here. So use that to recruit the brightest minds around the world. You see that with buyouts of Israeli companies today. Brilliant move. Stock option them out, hand citizenship over, goodbye the guys who creates the next big tech invention is now an American. Lol if he is gonna live in Israel watching his back 24/7. You just took his capital into the USA and you also got his brain.

USA for the win.

[Baldwin81]

Pepsi's like, "Dammit, we even sponsored the halftime show."

[scorpion]

(02-06-2014 12:21 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ lets see.

Should we encourage wealthy people to come to the USA. Or should we not?

The answer is we should, if we continue to brain drain other countries by bringing in top tier talent the USA will continue to win.

My very close friend makes a KILLING with this model. He brings in only immigrants with net worth if $1M plus into an investment vehicle for citizenship. Game over USA has more money flowing in, more of the rich people flock to the states.

At the end of the day, the goal of capitalism is to problem solve. If your country solved the most problems (USA for the win still destroying on that front) you get all the rewards. Hence why wealth inequality will always continue.

All that said, being in the richest country is always beneficial regardless of your social status. I'd rather be in the bottom 1% in the USA than the bottom 1% anywhere else.

We basically bring in the highest and brightest from other countries and offer them safety in exchange for complete power and domination from a mental capacity and future growth perspective.

We are killing other countries by offering more benefits.

No. In my opinion you shouldn't be able to buy you way into citizenship. If we actually had a functioning society and educational system in this country we would have no need to import immigrants anyway. If your only focus is on money then you have a point, but for me preserving a country's culture and traditions is more important than "winning" economically (and in our case, "winning" is more like "brutally crushing" every other country). The idea that the U.S. couldn't be wealthy and successful without immigrants is just silly. We were pretty successful pre-1965, wouldn't you say? In fact, relatively we were even more successful than we are now.

[WestCoast]

^ it's not just money I am focusing on talent.

In capitalistic societies who wins? The smartest people and the problem solvers that is all I care about.

Who solves the most problems? Rich smart motherfuckers worldwide.

That's who I want as citizens of my country.

IDGAF if you are Asian Latino black or white or whatever.

I want you on my team if you win and you are bright. Nothing else matters to me because you will solve my problems faster than joe average.

If you want to retain culture hang out with people who think like you, this is not prevented in the USA but it is prevented outside of the USA. Good luck with retaining a specific culture in North Korea or the Middle East, no chance.

I want the winners on my team, I want the winners solving my problems I want the winners pulling on my rope.

I don't want the winners leaving to another country because the climate here sucks and doesn't accomodate problem solvers.

If we don't allow the best and the brightest to obtain their potential here in the states, they will leave to a place where they can and we will lose in the long run.

---

The downside to this that you're alluding to is entitlement driven cultural decline. To me that's a cheap price to pay for being in charge. If my biggest worry is some fat bitch in flip flops I call that a privledged life. I'll ignore her and go along on my merry way.

[soup]

I could be wrong but If I remember correctly, America was the first nation to be founded on principles and not blood lines or kings etc.

The American dream is opportunity and I think that the entire world is becoming America because our way and system is being aped around the globe.

[TigerMandingo]

(02-06-2014 12:31 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ it's not just money I am focusing on talent.

In capitalistic societies who wins? The smartest people and the problem solvers that is all I care about.

Who solves the most problems? Rich smart motherfuckers worldwide.

That's who I want as citizens of my country.

IDGAF if you are Asian Latino black or white or whatever.

I want you on my team if you win and you are bright. Nothing else matters to me because you will solve my problems faster than joe average.

If you want to retain culture hang out with people who think like you, this is not prevented in the USA but it is prevented outside of the USA. Good luck with retaining a specific culture in North Korea or the Middle East, no chance.

I want the winners on my team, I want the winners solving my problems I want the winners pulling on my rope.

I don't want the winners leaving to another country because the climate here sucks and doesn't accomodate problem solvers.

Yes, but wouldnt you say that rich smart motherfuckers create vast problems, as well? Alan Greenspan and Lawrence Summers come to mind. Shit, you could probably place the entire staff of the Pentagon on that list. Everyone talks about how smart Clinton is/was. Well, nobody mentions that the guy fucked over millions of workers with NAFTA. That's just one example.

Certainly these "rich smart motherfuckers" win and are very bright. The question is at what and whose expense?

[WestCoast]

Yes my point remains.

Who do you want as your citizen? Smart guys or idiots?

This shouldn't really even be a topic of discussion right?

If a guy is in Uzbekistan or whatever the fuck. But he can fix our data analytics issue in the states if we can protect him from being stalked in his native country by gangs... Well let's bring him on board.

There are always problems with inequality, look at it realistically would you rather be poor in the USA or poor in (insert every other country in the world) that should speak for itself.

Again if my biggest problem is a short haired bitch with a cunt attitude I'm on cloud 9. If your problem is people trying to kill you because you have money... Fuck that bro.

I mean you can get $1900 a month for being unemployed here! Lol! That means you are basically in the top 10% in the world for nothing!

In the future if we keep brain draining other countries the standard of living will be even higher. Yes inequality will also be higher but that's the name of the game in capitalism. Let people reach their potential. You will dominate.

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-06-2014 12:28 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

No. In my opinion you shouldn't be able to buy you way into citizenship. If we actually had a functioning society and educational system in this country we would have no need to import immigrants anyway. If your only focus is on money then you have a point, but for me preserving a country's culture and traditions is more important than "winning" economically (and in our case, "winning" is more like "brutally crushing" every other country). The idea that the U.S. couldn't be wealthy and successful without immigrants is just silly. We were pretty successful pre-1965, wouldn't you say? In fact, relatively we were even more successful than we are now.

I asked this before, what exactly are you trying to preserve? What is American culture? What part of said culture do you fear you will lose because of immigration?

[WestCoast]

^ this is one I still don't get.

My culture is who I surround myself with.

You a negative pussy? Well I am not talking to you. You a feminist? Alright good bye.

Yes we will cross paths and scurmish now and then but generally if you let people be they are not gonna run around trying to attack you.

My culture:
My contact list
Searching for like minded guys
Talk to contact list, find young guys who I think have potential and help them

Repeat process.

I don't really care if they speak Spanish or Ebonics. Never will care.

My culture is surround myself with people who make me better, the USA is probably the best place in the world for that.

Culture in a nutshell?
Find winners and create momentum -> recruit more winners -> stay positive -> recruit more.

If you speak Spanish meh, I'll practice my Spanish with you as well. That's the only culture I care about, positive momentum.

[Dr. Howard]

This 'controversy' and people getting worked up about it is the difference between America and Canada. In Canada those who protested would be jumped on like there is no tomorrow and possibly even charged with hate crimes by the government.

[MidWest]

(02-06-2014 12:00 AM)FourToTheFloor Wrote:  

I think it's a huge jump to make the claim that a multi-lingual ad singing an American song is de facto making some kind of political statement.

The United States is not a monolithic ethnic or racial group. To simply recognize this fact does not signal white guilt.

BINGO!!!!!!!!

On top of that. Many languages are spoken in the United States. Go to South Texas and youll find that most people talk Spanish. Go to Miami and you'll find that the majority of the people speak Spanish. Go to New York and youll hear people on the streets talking every language imaginable. If you cant accept that fact, well in my opinion your showing your true colors.

I just feel that many people in America have this fear that English is going to somehow banish because of the influx of foreigners. Well guess what? English is not going anywhere, it never has and it never will and it will continue to be the dominant language. I honestly do think its racist.

This kind of reminds me of when Sebastian De La Cruz sang the national anthem in English during the NBA Finals last year in a Mariachi suit in San Antonio. Many people were bashing and throwing racial slurs at him saying "how dare an illegal sing our anthem" Just sickening. Heres the clip:

[svenski7]

(02-06-2014 12:49 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Yes my point remains.

Who do you want as your citizen? Smart guys or idiots?

I think we would all agree that we want to offer visas and citizenship to the smartest candidates. This is known as brain drain and it has worked in our favor for over 100 years.

I think the concern here is that we have close to 20 million people who have bypassed this by simply running across the Southwest desert. These people are not the smartest but they do do the shitty jobs that nobody else wants to.

For every smart, English-speaking Uzbek you find and grant a visa to, I'll find you five Central Americans who just walked in, opened a tamale stand and "no speak English."

soup Wrote:

The American dream is opportunity and I think that the entire world is becoming America because our way and system is being aped around the globe.

But its not. Its not being copied in Asia, Africa or most of South and Central America. Its a Western European and former British Commonwealth phenomena.

For all this hype about the rise of China, take a look at their demographics. They are 98% homogenous (Han Chinese) and they aren't letting anyone else in except a few SWPL English teachers.

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-06-2014 12:56 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ this is one I still don't get.

My culture is who I surround myself with.

You a negative pussy? Well I am not talking to you. You a feminist? Alright good bye.

Yes we will cross paths and scurmish now and then but generally if you let people be they are not gonna run around trying to attack you.

My culture:
My contact list
Searching for like minded guys
Talk to contact list, find young guys who I think have potential and help them

Repeat process.

I don't really care if they speak Spanish or Ebonics. Never will care.

My culture is surround myself with people who make me better, the USA is probably the best place in the world for that.

I'm just trying to understand where the fear is coming from. I have seen people complain about jobs and such. To me, that is fear of competition and I don't get it. I never thought people were entitled to well paying jobs simply because they were born. You are either valuable or not.

[delicioustacos]

CASTING NOTICE

Coca-Cola seeks actors of ALL AGES, BOTH SEXES, ALL ETHNICITIES for a NATIONAL AD CAMPAIGN celebrating the rich cultural heritage and diversity of America. Roles include a traditional "cowboy" type, African-American street dancers, traditional Latino family, and LGBT couple with child. The aim is to present the FULL SPECTRUM OF AMERICAN DIVERSITY, so: ALL NATIONALITIES ARE ENCOURAGED TO ATTEND THIS OPEN AUDITION.*

*NO FATTIES

[WestCoast]

Yeah that's a normal rational move. If you were poor and had no options at home you're going to try and illegally immigrate.

I don't see how that has any weight though. Isn't that normal? Anyone rational would do this.

Fuck you put me in a favela in brazil, you bet your ass I am trying to get in a boat to the states.

Irrelevant to me IMHO. I still want smart people world wide to know they are welcome in the states if they are smart.

Besides as WWT points out I am never gonna work on a farm picking berries and pears soo wtf small price to pay if we also get the smartest dudes in the world on our team right?

[Hencredible Casanova]

People are arguing about post-1965 immigration on a forum created by a man whose parents immigrated to the US post-1965.

[Saga]

(02-06-2014 12:37 PM)soup Wrote:  

I could be wrong but If I remember correctly, America was the first nation to be founded on principles and not blood lines or kings etc.

The American dream is opportunity and I think that the entire world is becoming America because our way and system is being aped around the globe.

On America being founded on principles and not bloodlines, you could say that but it's not the whole story...the south was essentially an aristocratic society and the revolution was justified on the basis of "natural born Englishmen" reclaiming the liberty they saw as their birthright. The principles were certainly there, but as always they were predicated on the less lofty realities of politics: after all, it started as a tax revolt.

Also, I'd say the American dream is (or was) realized opportunity, not just opportunity. However, that said, there's a peril in copying modes and models...I think countries succeed most when they figure things out in their own way.

[All or Nothing]

(02-06-2014 12:18 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

I'm not really seeing much meat in any of the arguments against what I said. No, hispanics are not white, because the vast majority of people who consider themselves hispanic are not from Spain, they're Mestizo. The term hispanic has become sort of meaningless for this reason. And no, Arabs are not white either. Playing word games and calling them Caucasian just makes you look silly. Everyone with a functioning brain and eyeballs can quite clearly differentiate the physical and cultural differences between white Europeans and Arabs/North Africans. Europe is currently in the midst of growing tensions over its immigration issues for this very reason, because its Muslim immigrants are so different from the native Europeans and largely refuse to adopt European cultural norms.

You must have never been to the southwest. There is a large population of people in the southwest who are ethnically Hispanic, but racially are Caucasian.

Arabs are part of the same race as Europeans. This is based anthropological studies and debate performed over the last century, not just based on "looking at someone". If you are basing it purely on looking at someone, look at the facial features of people from the Arab lands and look at the facial features of Europeans. They share physical features (ex: bridged nose) that no other race has.

The growing tensions are due to a large cultural divide, Christianity vs Islam. It is not due to a racial divide.

Quote:

And yes, I'm well aware of the historic struggles between European immigrants in the United States. But by the early 1900s that was mostly settled and the white Europeans had for the most part adopted a new ethnic identity - American. And black Americans descended from slaves had their own unique African American identity as well. My point is simply that the United States of America, from its founding until 1965 was a primarily white European ethnic country with a black minority. Talking about Romans being displaced by German barbarians and Native Americans being displaced by white settlers just proves my point. That sort of thing will happen if you let it. Why should white and black Americans let it happen? Why stand by willingly while the land your ancestors conquered and they society they built is simply handed over to foreigners? It just doesn't make sense.

You answered your own question. We should let it happen because we are no longer ethnically Europeans. We are ethnically Americans. Immigration was how America was started with the original colonial settlement in the New England territory. Continuing immigration is just a part of the "American way".

Quote:

Also, the idea that a country NEEDS immigration in order to sustain itself laughable. All a country needs to sustain itself a birthrate > 2.1 per person. Feminism and a corporate/finance capitalism economy are the reasons why the West is not sustaining that birthrate currently. No country needs immigrants, it simply needs its women to have 2 or more babies.

Again, you answered your own question. The U.S. needs immigration in order to sustain itself because its birthrate is below 2.1 per person.

Quote:

Also, no one has explained to me why it's perfectly acceptable to displace white and black Americans (and Europeans) with third world immigrants, but no one is clamoring for China, Russia, Israel, Japan and other homogenous countries to open their borders. Do countries have the right to deny immigrants or not? And if not, how is that any different than denying them the right to exist?

We are not accepting just any kind of immigrant. We are accepting the most intelligent, skilled, and driven immigrants who are of a different class than the population they come from.

Any country in the world who needs skilled workers does this, even if they do not want to. For example, Germany accepts immigration even if they do not want to because their birthrate is so low that without immigration their economy would weaken.

[WestCoast]

"You are either valuable or not"

Slightly revised:

"You either work on becoming more valuable or you don't"

The more shit you don't have to worry about the more time you have to work on becoming more valuable. So again USA for the win. If I had to worry about my rent/food I would not be able to focus my attention on bigger problems to solve.

Most people prefer to not try and solve big problems and instead are content just getting by.

[soup]

Maybe people are looking at thistle wrong way. It's the melody of the empire, and we've got everyone in the world singing it. Is that not a celebration of America's power?

I don't get the insecurity coming up over this ad.

[Brosemite]

(02-06-2014 12:59 PM)svenski7 Wrote:  

For all this hype about the rise of China, take a look at their demographics. They are 98% homogenous (Han Chinese) and they aren't letting anyone else in except a few SWPL English teachers.

Wait...there's no international businessmen in China?

I'd say the growth of China has had a lot to do with bringing in new ideas, "opening themselves up to the world," and inviting foreign businesses to invest in the local economy. As a matter of fact, the boom in Mainland China has had a lot to do with following a model similar to say Singapore or Hong Kong albeit they took a longer time to implement it.

I'm all for mobility and the movement of people/goods around the world. I'm sure the members of RVF are all about it too with all these domestic & international data sheets lol.

It increases accessibility to new goods/services, cheaper opportunities to travel, and more ways to acquire ideas (aka wealth & exotic pussy).

[darklightdispatch]

(02-06-2014 01:02 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

I'm just trying to understand where the fear is coming from. I have seen people complain about jobs and such. To me, that is fear of competition and I don't get it. I never thought people were entitled to well paying jobs simply because they were born. You are either valuable or not.

You really can't see why a person would object to his culture and homeland disappearing without even a fight? I find that hard to believe. And, yes, being inside of a group should entail getting stuff (such as jobs, potentially) not available to those outside the group. Wouldn't you do things for your family that you wouldn't for a random person on the street?

A post-nation-state, ultra-capitalist, globalized new world order may be where we're headed, but it's not so fully established that we've lost all sense of what human life was like for the thousands and thousands of years prior to this point. Community is important. Culture is important. It's very odd, in a historical sense, for people to think of themselves as atomized, distinct individuals without any real connection to anything except those they choose to make.

Fear of large-scale, replacement-level immigration (what's going on in the U.S.) is a deeper, more profound thing than just concern about crappy jobs. It's about the destruction of one's culture and people.