Quote: (11-27-2013 06:25 PM)bojangles Wrote:
Quote: (11-27-2013 09:15 AM)Statsi Wrote:
Quote: (11-27-2013 07:55 AM)bojangles Wrote:
Quote: (11-27-2013 07:49 AM)Teedub Wrote:
^ All your prescriptions and uni fees are free, amongst other things, why on earth would you want to leave?
they won't be able to do any of that post indepedence ![[Image: wink.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Would you join China if it would get you free prescriptions and uni fees? A people have a right to self determination, leaving the UK is the only way to solve the democratic deficit. Only these services are a result of devolution, an independent Scotland would have total control over our country and would be able to tailor every policy to Scotland's wishes and desires, rather than the UK's.
As for not being able to afford these things, what a nonsense claim, an independent Scotland can choose to run it's economy however it wishes, and provide whatever level of services it desires. The UK has an incredible level of debt, that's on Westminster, not Scotland. Scotland contributes more than it gets to the UK, also we can make cuts in the nuclear program since the people of Scotland are hugely against nuclear weapons, additionally running a smaller Scandinavian style military would make massive savings. Economic analysis of a post independent Scotland puts it as the 6th richest nation in the world per capita. Making assertions to us being poor is without foundation.
I'd need stats for these, it sounds like SNP spiel from the data I've seen.
You can cut your nuclear program but that would also mean no NATO for you.
A large part of government debt is due to two Scottish banking failures.
Do you actually know what brought about the Union of the two countries? I suggest you read about the Darien Scheme. Since that date your economy has been irrelevant.
Oh and Teedub, if Scotland became independent they would not be an EU member state, so scotian and his buddies would not be able to roam freely in Europe as Scotland nor the UK is part of the Schengen agreement.
'You can cut your nuclear program but that would also mean no NATO for you.'
nuclear sharing. 'Nuclear sharing is a concept in NATO's policy of nuclear deterrence, which involves member countries without nuclear weapons of their own in the planning for the use of nuclear weapons by NATO'
bbc's article on the white paper 'But the white paper then states that – like Norway and Denmark – an independent Scotland would allow Nato to visit Scottish ports "without confirming or denying whether they carry nuclear weapons"' so we don't pay for them, and we still have nato membership.
'I'd need stats for these, it sounds like SNP spiel from the data I've seen.' it comes from the GERS report, which is government data not SNP data.
Business for scotland's report'It is an accepted fact that every year for 30 years Scotland has generated more tax revenue per head for the UK treasury than the rest of the UK. The latest figures taken from the Government Expenditure and revenue report Scotland (GERS) state that Scotland generated 9.9% of the UK’s tax revenue but received only 9.3% of spending. This equated last year to an amount of £824.00 extra revenue per person from Scotland versus the rest of the UK, all of which goes to the UK treasury.
Put simply, when the UK runs a surplus Scotland contributes more to the surplus, and when the UK runs a deficit Scotland has to pay more of the debt back than it is responsible for. Its a “lose/lose” situation for Scottish tax payers and especially for those in need of support from the state.'
'A large part of government debt is due to two Scottish banking failures.' financial law is not devolved, banking is not devolved, busneiss rates are not devolved, if it's exclusively controlled by and ran accord to westminster it's bizzare to blame it on Scotland.
Bank bail outs
RBS was not a Scottish bank (don't let the name throw you): It was a UK institution. The UK fucked it up. Had it been a Scottish bank (that is, had it not been tied to London policy and decision) it's questionably whether it would have went tits up. If it did, it would still likely have weathered the storm.
'Oh and Teedub, if Scotland became independent they would not be an EU member state, so scotian and his buddies would not be able to roam freely in Europe as Scotland nor the UK is part of the Schengen agreement.' This is ridiculous man, you think the EU would turn away Scotland? from the white paper 'Following a vote for independence the Scottish Government
will immediately seek discussions with the Westminster
Government, with member states and with the institutions
of the EU to agree the process whereby a smooth transition
to independent EU membership can take place on the day
Scotland becomes an independent country.
The discussions will be held during the period in which Scotland
remains part of the UK and by extension, part of the EU. This
will allow the transition to independent EU membership to
proceed without disrupting the continuity of Scotland’s current
position inside the EU single market or the rights and interests
of EU citizens and businesses in Scotland. The Scottish
Government believes that ensuring a seamless transition to
independent EU membership will be in the best interests of
Scotland, all member states and the EU in general, as well
as those individual EU citizens and businesses who would be
affected by any alternative approach.
The Scottish Government has proposed an 18-month period
between the referendum and independence, which we believe
is realistic for the terms of Scotland’s independent membership
of the EU to be agreed and all the necessary processes
completed. It also provides sufficient time for the Scottish
Government to undertake the necessary legal and institutional
preparations for independent EU membership.
221
The Scottish situation is sui generis. There is no specific
provision within the EU Treaties for the situation where, by a
consensual and lawful constitutional process, the democratically
determined majority view in part of the territory of an existing
member state is that it should become an independent country.
Article 49 of the Treaty of the European Union provides the
legal basis, and defines the procedure, for a conventional
enlargement where the candidate country is seeking
membership from outside the EU. As Scotland joined the EU
in 1973 this is not the starting position from which the Scottish
Government will be pursuing independent EU membership.
Article 49 does not appear to be the appropriate legal base on
which to facilitate Scotland’s transition to full EU membership.
The alternative to an Article 49 procedure, and a legal basis
that the Scottish Government considers is appropriate to the
prospective circumstances, is that Scotland’s transition to full
membership is secured under the general provisions of Article
48. Article 48 provides for a Treaty amendment to be agreed
by common accord on the part of the representatives of the
governments of the member states.
Article 48 is therefore a suitable legal route to facilitate the
transition process, by allowing the EU Treaties to be amended
through ordinary revision procedure before Scotland becomes
independent, to enable it to become a member state at the point
of independence.
The Scottish Government recognises it will be for the EU
member states, meeting under the auspices of the Council,
to take forward the most appropriate procedure under which
an independent Scotland will become a signatory to the EU
Treaties at the point at which it becomes independent, taking
into account Scotland’s status as an EU jurisdiction of 40 years
standing. The European Parliament will also play its role in
Scotland’s transition.
The Scottish Government will approach EU membership
negotiations on the principle of continuity of effect: that is, a
transition to independent membership that is based on the
EU Treaty obligations and provisions that currently apply to
Scotland under our present status as part of the UK, and
without disruption to Scotland’s current fully integrated standing
within the legal, economic, institutional, political and social
framework of the EU.
We recognise that specific provisions will need to be included
in the EU Treaties as part of the amendment process to ensure
the principle of continuity of effect with respect to the terms and
conditions of Scotland’s independent EU membership, including
detailed considerations around current opt-outs, in particular the
rebate, Eurozone, Justice and Home Affairs and the Schengen
travel area.
Scotland is likely to be a net financial contributor to the EU,
subject to negotiation on issues such as the rebate and
Scottish take up of EU funding programmes. The EU budget
has been agreed until 2020. We see no reason for re-opening
current budgetary agreements. Prior to 2020, we consider
that the division of the share of the UK rebate would be a
matter for negotiation between the Scottish and Westminster
Governments.
Our intention to retain Sterling as the currency of an independent
Scotland is based on an analysis of the potential impact of the
alternative currency options on Scottish people and businesses,
including the ease with which they can conduct their business
with people and companies across the rest of the UK and
beyond. While the Scottish Government recognises the political
and economic objectives of the Eurozone, an independent
Scotland will not seek, nor will we qualify for, membership of the
Eurozone. Scotland’s participation in the Sterling Area will not
conflict with wider obligations under the EU treaties.'
White paper[/code]
![[Image: 600px-Flag_of_Quebec.svg.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Flag_of_Quebec.svg/600px-Flag_of_Quebec.svg.png)
![[Image: rolleyes.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
![[Image: biggrin.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
but then i'd be quite the dictator
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