[Petrosius]

Hi! which countries of Europe do you think will have the best economical perspectives?

France,Italy and UK seems to be stagnant and full of debt...

Spain is having very hard times but its recovering very quickly and open to foreign investment with many facilities for entrepreneurship

The countries where I can see a good economic development are those from Eastern Europe...¿what do you think?

Here is what is considered Eastern Europe (baltics included):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe...oschme.svg

[funkyzeit]

Germany. Germans are geniuses when it comes to adapting to shitty economy.

[Statsi]

Scotland post independence as going to be huge, with loads of opportunities for new business.

[Teedub]

^ All your prescriptions and uni fees are free, amongst other things, why on earth would you want to leave?

[Wahawahwah]

*Economic.

Countries with better economical perspectives would be countries where the overall cost of living would be cheaper.

[bojangles]

(11-27-2013 07:49 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

^ All your prescriptions and uni fees are free, amongst other things, why on earth would you want to leave?

they won't be able to do any of that post indepedence

funkyzeit is right with Germany, it's the economic titan in Europe, with a huge manufacturing base too.

[Teedub]

(11-27-2013 07:55 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 07:49 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

^ All your prescriptions and uni fees are free, amongst other things, why on earth would you want to leave?

they won't be able to do any of that post indepedence

funkyzeit is right with Germany, it's the economic titan in Europe, with a huge manufacturing base too.

Out of places I've visited, Germany is my favourite country. If the women were thinner and more feminine I'd renounce my British citizenship and move there permanently!

[Statsi]

(11-27-2013 07:55 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 07:49 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

^ All your prescriptions and uni fees are free, amongst other things, why on earth would you want to leave?

they won't be able to do any of that post indepedence

Would you join China if it would get you free prescriptions and uni fees? A people have a right to self determination, leaving the UK is the only way to solve the democratic deficit. Only these services are a result of devolution, an independent Scotland would have total control over our country and would be able to tailor every policy to Scotland's wishes and desires, rather than the UK's.

As for not being able to afford these things, what a nonsense claim, an independent Scotland can choose to run it's economy however it wishes, and provide whatever level of services it desires. The UK has an incredible level of debt, that's on Westminster, not Scotland. Scotland contributes more than it gets to the UK, also we can make cuts in the nuclear program since the people of Scotland are hugely against nuclear weapons, additionally running a smaller Scandinavian style military would make massive savings. Economic analysis of a post independent Scotland puts it as the 6th richest nation in the world per capita. Making assertions to us being poor is without foundation.

[Tex Pro]

Scottish independence would be great since it would set the stage for other countries in Europe (and possibly around the world) to go independent.

An independence vote in Catalan would be next...and who knows, maybe even an independence vote one day for Texas as well.

[johnwu]

(11-27-2013 07:09 AM)funkyzeit Wrote:  

Germany. Germans are geniuses when it comes to adapting to shitty economy.

Keep in mind that they do have the benefit of the Euro, and all the other countries in the Euro, for their exports.

[Icarus]

(11-27-2013 09:45 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

An independence vote in Catalan would be next...and who knows, maybe even an independence vote one day for Texas as well.

And, after that, hopefully:

• the Basque people would have their own country (they have a cool language).
  

• Ukraine would peacefully return Crimea and its eastern regions to Russia, thus depolarizing the country.
  

• Transnistria and Abkhazia would be recognized by the international community and become de jure independent.
  

• The North Korean regime collapses, and the two Koreas start a 30-year-long process of unification.
  

This would increase the number of flags for one to conquer! Who has a Basque flag?

[Mekorig]

(11-27-2013 09:59 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 09:45 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

An independence vote in Catalan would be next...and who knows, maybe even an independence vote one day for Texas as well.

And, after that, hopefully:

• the Basque people would have their own country (they have a cool language).
  

• Ukraine would peacefully return Crimea and its eastern regions to Russia, thus depolarizing the country.
  

• Transnistria and Abkhazia would be recognized by the international community and become de jure independent.
  

• The North Korean regime collapses, and the two Koreas start a 30-year-long process of unification.
  

This would increase the number of flags for one to conquer! Who has a Basque flag?

1st: Seriously doubt it, the spanish gov will not allowed it, and the other europeans gov will follow in fear of regional secessions on their own turf.

2nd: I could say the contrary, if Russia back off from national ukranian territory things will cool off.

3rd: Seriously doubt it it, only Russia recognize them.

4th: Since at least 30 years people is talking about the inminent fall of the NK regiment, and thus they still stand, thanks to China´s backing. Cut that backing and the regime will wither.

[scotian]

(11-27-2013 09:45 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

Scottish independence would be great since it would set the stage for other countries in Europe (and possibly around the world) to go independent.

An independence vote in Catalan would be next...and who knows, maybe even an independence vote one day for Texas as well.

I really don't want to see Canada go through the whole Quebec seperatist referendum again like we did in 95' and 80'. They talk about holding another one but if they did tomorrow, the seperatists wouldn't win but the vote will scare off international investors, our economy will suffer massive set backs and national unity will go way down again. No thanks.

I just read an article on Scottish independance and saw an interesting line, "An independent Scotland would have its own passport and any British citizen who is "habitually resident" in Scotland, and anyone with Scottish ancestry, would qualify for citizenship." Considering the amount off people with Scottish blood in them all over the world, there could be a lot of people wanting to move there. I'm from possibly the most Scottish place outside of Scotland (Nova Scotia is Latin for New Scotland) and am 100% Scottish decent, I wouldn't mind having a second passport.

[Tex Pro]

(11-27-2013 10:53 AM)scotian Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 09:45 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

Scottish independence would be great since it would set the stage for other countries in Europe (and possibly around the world) to go independent.

An independence vote in Catalan would be next...and who knows, maybe even an independence vote one day for Texas as well.

I really don't want to see Canada go through the whole Quebec seperatist referendum again like we did in 95' and 80'. They talk about holding another one but if they did tomorrow, the seperatists wouldn't win but the vote will scare off international investors, our economy will suffer massive set backs and national unity will go way down again. No thanks.

An independent Quebec would be amazing. They could finally outlaw English and switch to only using French.

[Teedub]

(11-27-2013 10:53 AM)scotian Wrote:  

I'm from possibly the most Scottish place outside of Scotland (Nova Scotia is Latin for New Scotland) and am 100% Scottish decent, I wouldn't mind having a second passport.

Then you'd qualify for EU free-to-roam rules too. One way ticket too EE!

[Vicious]

I'm always surprised at how little use the forum makes of stats. Especially in cases like this when it's readily available and worth more than any armchair quarterbacking.

[Icarus]

(11-27-2013 11:39 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

I'm always surprised at how little use the forum makes of stats.

Statistics on what?

Economic data are of limited use and don't tell the whole story.

[DjembaDjemba]

The UK will continue minor reforms. Its economy will eventually balance to a long period of low growth, low unemployment, and high debt similar to that of Japan. This could go on for decades.

Middle class brits will try to emigrate to places like America and Canada (with medium success due to stringent immigration policies of destinations), while immigration will slow down.

France - this country will haemorrhage its best and brightest without proper reform. The country is too large to continue its cradle to the grave welfare policies. Its best chances of salvation are that of a centre-right UMP party. Otherwise France will continue to look like 70s Britain.

Spain - This country will slowly get back on its feet. It will loose a portion of its young professionals to Latin America which could slow down economic growth in the future. It's going to be bolstered by cheap labour from the south once the economy stabilizes.

Portugal - Lost its best and brightest to Africa and Brazil already. Being bailed out by Germany and Angola. This is a nation that has lost way too many smart people to fully recover. Will become a sort of long term new Greece.

Germany - Titan.

Poland - This country is too dependent on its neighbours, low GDP growth, low unemployment, high debt for decades to come like the UK. Nothing significant will happen here. Already a first world country and not really much further to go.

Ukraine - This poor nation has been bullied by Russia. Ukrainians look west to Europe, but they're held back by an ever assertive Russia. More professionals will run west, which will slow economic progress.

Lithuania - Estonia - Latvia - They'll continue to outperform most of Europe on economic, education and health indicators. These countries will be the Switzerlands of the East.

Bulgaria - Corrupt, lost most of its best workforce to the west already.

Romania - Similar to Bulgaria. The Schengen will mean more best and bright leaving for the west.

Russia - Energy giant to supply China resources of decades ahead. The Russians will become richer, and better off than ever before in history. Demographically though this country is similar to the USA. On paper Russia's demographic time bomb has been halted, but upon closer inspection the majority of population growth is not ethnic Russian (or European for that matter). This may or may not have an impact in the future, depending of how the economy holds up.

Turkey - It will become a Titan. Germany of the East.


If I had to invest in a European fund in the next few years, I'd be looking to Turkey for moderate and stable growth.

Germany for stability and long term security.

Spain - Already bottomed out, and the country has huge potential.

[Wahawahwah]

(11-27-2013 12:02 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

Spain - Already bottomed out, and the country has huge potential.

Huge potential... in terms of?

What sort of revival do you see on the horizon?

[DjembaDjemba]

(11-27-2013 12:11 PM)Sharkie Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 12:02 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

Spain - Already bottomed out, and the country has huge potential.

Huge potential... in terms of?

What sort of revival do you see on the horizon?

Spain's economy grew too fast based on the abundance of cheap credit and the allure of cheap homes in a beautiful climate. It was really simple overcapacity. There was too much being built, for the demand. The prices of real estate was over-valued in respect to what the average European income could support. The over-valuation created false growth indicators. The construction boom was done on borrowed dime. There should never have been that much lending happening in Spain in the first place.

Spain has a massive population (50 million). It has a large and complex financial system, it has links to Latin America and Europe, educated workforce, cheap abundance of labour, beautiful weather (and beautiful women ), liberalized economy, and it's not corrupt like Italy. There is still demand for Spanish real estate from the North.

Spain's economy has stabilized and stopped rapidly shrinking. Investment in Spain is a decades long endeavour and I wouldn't expect to see returns on a Spanish based fund for quite some time. But I still expect a recovery.

[scotian]

(11-27-2013 11:13 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 10:53 AM)scotian Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 09:45 AM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

Scottish independence would be great since it would set the stage for other countries in Europe (and possibly around the world) to go independent.

An independence vote in Catalan would be next...and who knows, maybe even an independence vote one day for Texas as well.

I really don't want to see Canada go through the whole Quebec seperatist referendum again like we did in 95' and 80'. They talk about holding another one but if they did tomorrow, the seperatists wouldn't win but the vote will scare off international investors, our economy will suffer massive set backs and national unity will go way down again. No thanks.

An independent Quebec would be amazing. They could finally outlaw English and switch to only using French.

And what do you suggest they do with the original inhabitants of Quebec, the indigenous population, who are by and large against Quebec separating? I"m actually somewhat sympathetic to some of the grievances of the Quebecois and do admire their history and culture, I'm also a huge fan of their craft beer, poutine and strip joints. The thing is that their langauge and culture are very much protected, so much so that your average Quebecois (outside of Montreal) is a unilingual Francophone and would have problems ordering a a burger at a fast food joint in an English speaking place.

Again, I like Quebec and the people but their governments are fucked and taxpayers from the rest of Canada (especially the west) have been paying through the nose to support their socialist causes for too.

It can be embarrassing too, the Quebec government has language police that go around enforcing draconian language laws, one of the most ridiculous recently made head lines when the language police found a fucking parrot at a Montreal zoo who spoke too much English and had it deported from Quebec to a zoo in Toronto, its so retarded I couldn't make his shit up! Link

[Petrosius]

(11-27-2013 12:27 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 12:11 PM)Sharkie Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 12:02 PM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  

Spain - Already bottomed out, and the country has huge potential.

Huge potential... in terms of?

What sort of revival do you see on the horizon?

Spain's economy grew too fast based on the abundance of cheap credit and the allure of cheap homes in a beautiful climate. It was really simple overcapacity. There was too much being built, for the demand. The prices of real estate was over-valued in respect to what the average European income could support. The over-valuation created false growth indicators. The construction boom was done on borrowed dime. There should never have been that much lending happening in Spain in the first place.

Spain has a massive population (50 million). It has a large and complex financial system, it has links to Latin America and Europe, educated workforce, cheap abundance of labour, beautiful weather (and beautiful women ), liberalized economy, and it's not corrupt like Italy. There is still demand for Spanish real estate from the North.

Spain's economy has stabilized and stopped rapidly shrinking. Investment in Spain is a decades long endeavour and I wouldn't expect to see returns on a Spanish based fund for quite some time. But I still expect a recovery.

I think the countries that have better perspectives of future in Europe are Spain(that will enrich a lot thanks to its colonies) and the batic countries.

[iop890]

(11-27-2013 10:53 AM)scotian Wrote:  

I just read an article on Scottish independance and saw an interesting line, "An independent Scotland would have its own passport and any British citizen who is "habitually resident" in Scotland, and anyone with Scottish ancestry, would qualify for citizenship." Considering the amount off people with Scottish blood in them all over the world, there could be a lot of people wanting to move there. I'm from possibly the most Scottish place outside of Scotland (Nova Scotia is Latin for New Scotland) and am 100% Scottish decent, I wouldn't mind having a second passport.

How far back will that go? I know many countries in Europe have this policy but it usually only goes back to grandparents or great grandparents if I remember correctly.

[j r]

The question is far too broad? What are we talking about? Straight growth? Employment? Investment climate? Safe financial system?

[bojangles]

(11-27-2013 09:15 AM)Statsi Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 07:55 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(11-27-2013 07:49 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

^ All your prescriptions and uni fees are free, amongst other things, why on earth would you want to leave?

they won't be able to do any of that post indepedence

Would you join China if it would get you free prescriptions and uni fees? A people have a right to self determination, leaving the UK is the only way to solve the democratic deficit. Only these services are a result of devolution, an independent Scotland would have total control over our country and would be able to tailor every policy to Scotland's wishes and desires, rather than the UK's.

As for not being able to afford these things, what a nonsense claim, an independent Scotland can choose to run it's economy however it wishes, and provide whatever level of services it desires. The UK has an incredible level of debt, that's on Westminster, not Scotland. Scotland contributes more than it gets to the UK, also we can make cuts in the nuclear program since the people of Scotland are hugely against nuclear weapons, additionally running a smaller Scandinavian style military would make massive savings. Economic analysis of a post independent Scotland puts it as the 6th richest nation in the world per capita. Making assertions to us being poor is without foundation.

I'd need stats for these, it sounds like SNP spiel from the data I've seen.

You can cut your nuclear program but that would also mean no NATO for you.

A large part of government debt is due to two Scottish banking failures.

Do you actually know what brought about the Union of the two countries? I suggest you read about the Darien Scheme. Since that date your economy has been irrelevant.

Oh and Teedub, if Scotland became independent they would not be an EU member state, so scotian and his buddies would not be able to roam freely in Europe as Scotland nor the UK is part of the Schengen agreement.