[samsamsam]

NSA Tracks Turned-Off Phones — But Phone Makers Don't Know How

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/nsa-track-of...17851.html

Quote:

Tracking a cellphone is easy, especially for the National Security Agency. But can you track a cellphone that's been turned off?
It sounds impossible, but the NSA apparently has been able to track powered-down mobile phones since 2004, as reported by The Washington Post in July 2013.

The Post's mention of this ability was brief. It was buried within a longer narrative regarding the NSA's partnership with the U.S. military's Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) to track and kill high-profile al-Qaida targets in Iraq:

"By September 2004, a new NSA technique enabled the agency to find cellphones even when they were turned off. JSOC troops called this 'The Find,' and it gave them thousands of new targets," the Post reported.

Hoping for more information, British watchdog group Privacy International in August wrote directly to eight major mobile-phone manufacturers and operating-system providers asking how that could be possible.

So far, Ericsson, Google, Nokia and Samsung have responded — and, as far as they know or can say, it shouldn't be possible to track powered-down cellphones.

All four companies claimed to be unaware of any exploit or vulnerability that would make tracking a powered-down phone possible, since pressing the "off" button on a phone entirely deactivates its network connectivity.

"When a mobile device running the Android Operating System is powered off, there is no part of the Operating System that remains on or emits a signal," Google told Privacy International.

Similarly, Samsung Vice President Hyunjoon Kim wrote: "Without the [mobile phone's] power source, it is not possible to transmit any signal, due to the components being inactive. Thus the powered-off devices are not able to be tracked or monitored by any 3rd party." (You can read Samsung's letter on Privacy International's website.)

Nokia's Chad Fentress had a similar statement, but his phrasing raised eyebrows at Privacy International: "Our devices are designed so that when they are switched off, the radio transceivers within the devices should be powered off." (Nokia's statement is also available on the website.)

Privacy International research officer Richard Tynan told Ars Technica that Nokia's wording, particularly the "should," is suspicious.

"Nokia's wording is very nuanced," Tynan said. "They don't say that transceivers 'are' switched off."

However, both Ericsson and Samsung suggested that it might be possible to place spyware on a phone that would keep some of its network functions active even after users pressed the power button to turn it off.

Without confirmation from the NSA, or access to the documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, it's impossible to tell exactly how, or even if, tracking powered-down mobile phones is possible.

Privacy International is still waiting for responses from Apple, HTC, Microsoft and BlackBerry. The organization plans to reach out to LG, Motorola, Sony and others in the near future.

[NY Digital]

I heard from a close friend that you had to take the battery out for it to not be tracked.

This was 2 years ago though. Not sure if they have been able to do it otherwise.

[samsamsam]

Total random comment, but last night on Person of Interest, one of the character's took the battery out and then took her gun and smashed the phone. Is it possible, taking the battery out isn't enough? Also, it is a TV show and what can you really take from that, lol.

[presidentcarter]

According Breaking Bad, the procedure is (flip phones only):

1) take out battery
2) break phone in half
3) toss away worry free

[NY Digital]

Breaking the phone in half might not even solve that problem though.

Best thing to do would be to soak the phone in water then plug it up to a charger to try and short circuit it.

That way all the electronics would be fried.

[Icepasian]

Technically, all computers(cell phones are computers today) have CMOS batteries to keep their internal clocks running that are independent of the primary battery/power supply. I guess you could find a way to get that to send out a signal but I have doubts that a battery that small could produce a signal, even one that is very weak, for very long. I don't know how the NSA would get the battery to send a signal if it could without spyware of some kind.

[vinman]

As long as your phone is hooked into a power source it can be exploited.

[Aliblahba]

All of us are tracked now, even unregistered immigrants. You guys need to understand the power of semi conductors and the minute power needed to keep the memory. I promise you that every digital footprint you've made is stored in a database somewhere. Nothing in the digital age private.

[samsamsam]

(11-13-2013 03:57 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

All of us are tracked now, even unregistered immigrants. You guys need to understand the power of semi conductors and the minute power needed to keep the memory. I promise you that every digital footprint you've made is stored in a database somewhere. Nothing in the digital age private.

Why don't you tell me Santa Claus isn't real and just completely ruin my day.

You're right technology has made it is there is no privacy. Time to hide out in a hobbit hole.

[Aliblahba]

The patent office guv ran. They see all and pick and choose what sits silent and what they use for their discretion. Companies comply for tax breaks, or bullying.

You guys have no idea whats been discovered but needs to stay quiet. Tech is moving faster than humans. It would destroy us if it us if all let out now.

[kbell]

Wish they would help you find lost phones though.

[NYJ]

(11-13-2013 02:53 PM)NY Digital Wrote:  

I heard from a close friend that you had to take the battery out for it to not be tracked.

This was 2 years ago though. Not sure if they have been able to do it otherwise.

Which means phones with sealed batteries are always on. Even when the phone turns off due to low battery, there is always a little bit left.

[FourToTheFloor]

Make a tiny little Farraday Cage for your phone.

[bojangles]

(11-13-2013 06:40 PM)kbell Wrote:  

Wish they would help you find lost phones though.

Word, or my phone that 2 Somalians mugged off me, fucking dirty somalian cunts.

[UrbanNerd]

***In my NSA Contractor laugh***

"You all are just finding this out????"

[Alpharius]

(11-14-2013 08:23 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

***In my NSA Contractor laugh***

"You all are just finding this out????"

I learned this watching Enemy of the State as a kid. And again reading The Puzzle Palace by James Bamford back in 2007. Then again reading Wired's articles on the new NSA Data Center in 2012.

Everytime someone mentions the NSA or Snowden these days I just think to myself, "where the hell have you been for the past ever?"

[Therapsid]

(11-14-2013 09:17 AM)Osiris Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 08:23 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

***In my NSA Contractor laugh***

"You all are just finding this out????"

I learned this watching Enemy of the State as a kid. And again reading The Puzzle Palace by James Bamford back in 2007. Then again reading Wired's articles on the new NSA Data Center in 2012.

Everytime someone mentions the NSA or Snowden these days I just think to myself, "where the hell have you been for the past ever?"

Where was did the media discuss this before the Snowden revelations?

In Hollywood movies?

It's a little ridiculous to condemn people for being ignorant beforehand. This wasn't stuff that made the nightly news or that was plastered on the bottom scroll of CNN.

[kosko]

(11-14-2013 09:25 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 09:17 AM)Osiris Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 08:23 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

***In my NSA Contractor laugh***

"You all are just finding this out????"

I learned this watching Enemy of the State as a kid. And again reading The Puzzle Palace by James Bamford back in 2007. Then again reading Wired's articles on the new NSA Data Center in 2012.

Everytime someone mentions the NSA or Snowden these days I just think to myself, "where the hell have you been for the past ever?"

Where was did the media discuss this before the Snowden revelations?

In Hollywood movies?

It's a little ridiculous to condemn people for being ignorant beforehand. This wasn't stuff that made the nightly news or that was plastered on the bottom scroll of CNN.

It's all been known since 2006. Alternative media has been saying this for years.

The NSA strong armed phone manufacturers to give them back doors. Defence supposedly made dirty deals with cell carriers to trade much needed cellular spectrum for access and then the carriers also went to phone manufacturers and strong armed them to comply with the backdoors. Asian manufacturers like Samsung I believe tried to protest this back in the day but with no luck.

The NSA is only around to spy and data mine Americans. They became obsolete post cold war and shifted their attention to domestic matters.

[Alpharius]

(11-14-2013 09:25 AM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 09:17 AM)Osiris Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 08:23 AM)UrbanNerd Wrote:  

***In my NSA Contractor laugh***

"You all are just finding this out????"

I learned this watching Enemy of the State as a kid. And again reading The Puzzle Palace by James Bamford back in 2007. Then again reading Wired's articles on the new NSA Data Center in 2012.

Everytime someone mentions the NSA or Snowden these days I just think to myself, "where the hell have you been for the past ever?"

Where was did the media discuss this before the Snowden revelations?

In Hollywood movies?

It's a little ridiculous to condemn people for being ignorant beforehand. This wasn't stuff that made the nightly news or that was plastered on the bottom scroll of CNN.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03...atacenter/
March 5th, 2012 - A good year before Snowden. Gotta go past the CNN scroll sometimes.

[rudebwoy]

Yeah right and the tooth fairy is legit

[NY Digital]

(11-14-2013 12:17 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Yeah right and the tooth fairy is legit

What's the point of this post?

There have been factual reports that this happens.

[Zep]

I just wrapped my cell-phone in two layers of plain tinfoil. Two sheets of foil about twelve inches by twelve inches. ( one sheet didn't work) It did not ring from another phone trying to contact it from about 3 feet away. It lost service with the provider. I'm guessing this means that nothing is getting through.

[vinman]

http://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Parabe...ngHold_Bag

http://www.insectraforensics.com/Paraben...old-Bag/en