[aphelion]

(07-28-2013 11:36 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(07-28-2013 11:26 PM)Matt Forney Wrote:  

Holy shit. Can he really not see that this is a complete validation of hypergamy? She wants him because he's high status in the manosphere as a respected commentator. If he was just his regular, un-famous deadbeat self, she wouldn't even notice him.

Yep. That's why, once she landed this "high status man," she IMMEDIATELY shared this information with those who held him in high esteem.

She did this even though any rational person would have anticipated a fallout.

I mean, come on bro! This isn't hard.

This is all textbook, Game 101 shit unfolding.

This is probably some of the realest talk in this thread fwiw.

[bachelor tax]

His ex-wife comes across in her comments as a barely literate, money obsessed harpy. Basically your typical careerist Americunt. So, that part of the story is genuine. If I had to marry one or the other, it would be Kate, even if she is an codependent bipolar groupie.

[Apollo]

I honestly hope that Mark doesn't eject entirely from the manosphere. I really want to find out what happens with him and whether this ultimately turns out successful.

I figure it can go two ways...

1. He remains married "til death do us part" and concludes in honest reflection that his marriage was indeed the optimal path to his own happiness.

If this happened, at least it would establish that in roads are being made amongst women and they will start to consciously realize/control their hypergamy. This is, in essence, the definition of a "Red Pill" woman, which Kate, from all her posts, self-proclaims to be. Ironically, this is pretty much the biggest test for her if indeed she was being phony because his fame game is pretty much over now since his credibility has been publicly tarnished.

2. He gets divorced or is otherwise miserable in marriage.

Given his former prominent status here and across many blogs, you cannot deny that this would be the most glaring example ever for why a man should never get married. I wouldn't wish for this to happen to any man, but if this does happen...I can say, that to all the people who have called bullshit on him since Day 1, that this would be at least one lesson of his that you could take to the bank. You might have called BS on Mark Minter, prophet of the manosphere, but you'll be unable to avert your eyes from the horror that was Mark Minter, the self-immolated martyr of the manosphere.

Regardless of what is going down right now, I have a lot of respect for this guy. He has more life experiences than most here, and as a result he's imparted a lot of wisdom (of the non-vitriolic, non anti-marriage variety) that has personally helped me through some tough times.

Though personally, I see little upside to this social experiment...I will never fault a man for pursuing his own happiness, no matter how lacking in reason I think it is. It is his life, and the choices are his to live by.

[soup]

I don't care if the G Manifesto is an embellishment so long as his info on game helps me to get what I want.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

What are the chances that this is all an elaborate character assassination? Given that Minter doesn't have his own blog or centralized unique login, anyone could have posted all this. I personally find it strange that people who have absolutely nothing to do with the manosphere, like his ex-wife "SMinter1", automatically know about all the blogs and forums and are always there to respond.

Heck, I had no idea that half of these websites existed before this

[eradicator]

(07-26-2013 02:04 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Either Minter is poor, and has nothing to lose in a marriage, but then why did Kate go for him in the first place?

He has not worked in decades and is penniless. She is a single mum. Not really sure how exactly either of them are winning here.

I don't really get all of this reaction though, he was not a writer, mark posted in the comments section in the manosphere webpages. This reaction is akin to getting worked up over a youtube commenter.

[Vicious]

As mentioned above the reaction to this news is odd.

I can't help but think that so many people here are mad at MM because they invested in him as an idol.

That is the danger with putting any particular individual on a pedestal. You can take their ideas and make them your own without investing in the person.

[eradicator]

(07-29-2013 01:16 AM)soup Wrote:  

I don't care if the G Manifesto is an embellishment so long as his info on game helps me to get what I want.

Oh I always took his boasting about being a professional jewel thief with a grain of salt. His data sheets are solid and his blog is entertaining.

[worldwidetraveler]

(07-29-2013 01:38 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

As mentioned above the reaction to this news is odd.

I can't help but think that so many people here are mad at MM because they invested in him as an idol.

That is the danger with putting any particular individual on a pedestal. You can take their ideas and make them your own without investing in the person.

The guy doesn't have any honor which is why many are mad. It is embarrassing, in a way, to promote someone only to find out they are a lie.

Like it or not, it does take away from the message when this stuff happens.

I also don't think people were putting him up as a idol but more as a mentor.

He substantiated what many young guys were thinking. Having someone experienced tell you that you're right calms you. It alleviates fear.

It really comes down to knowing yourself. You either connect with certain ideology or you don't regardless if a person you thought was similar turns out to be a fake.

Life experiences will continue to change us and how we think. That is a good thing for most of us. Who the hell wants to remain stagnant?

[Ensam]

(07-29-2013 01:16 AM)soup Wrote:  

I don't care if the G Manifesto is an embellishment so long as his info on game helps me to get what I want.

Yeah, I'd wouldn't stop using his phone game even if he turned out to be a 17 year old world championship texter.



http://gizmodo.com/5933131/17+year+old-s...-it-drrrty

[Acute Angle]

"Take no heroes, only inspiration" - The Redskins, circa 1985

[JoyStick]

i wonder if his 19 year old daughter is hot. i'm sure she has lots of daddy issues that needs working out.

[the virgin chronicles]

Everyone is overreacting to this. The manosphere taking stakes in this dude's marriage is akin to a celebrity worship blog doing the same. If he feels like he found someone special, let the dude get married. He doesn't owe you guys an explanation, even if it's taken for granted here that marriage is a mistake.

[DetlefMourning]

(07-29-2013 08:26 AM)the virgin chronicles Wrote:  

Everyone is overreacting to this. The manosphere taking stakes in this dude's marriage is akin to a celebrity worship blog doing the same. If he feels like he found someone special, let the dude get married. He doesn't owe you guys an explanation, even if it's taken for granted here that marriage is a mistake.

I tend to agree with this. I feel like the only thing he misrepresented is that he portrayed himself as the helpless victim of an ex-wife that pulled an Eat, Betray, Love on him...and according to her, he couldn't hold down a job and wasn't interested in actively parenting his children. You can't blame a woman for leaving a man if he gets fired from every job he has and would rather sit on the couch and get high than help her parent their children.

At the same time, I understand the anger. His stances were supposedly based on experiences that now appear to not have gone down the way he said they did. It undermines that message. Also, he took a very radical anti-woman stance, even by manosphere standards, that basically reduced them to useful for nothing but objects for sexual release, when it turns out that his own sister is giving him free room and board because he can't or won't support himself. How can you rant and rail about how awful women are when one is keeping you from being homeless?

Having said all that, is it really surprising that he's decided to do this? You're 58 years old, you're broke, you're living in your sister's basement. Your sexual market value is in the tank, and all of a sudden you have a woman 24 years your junior throwing herself at you. How many of you would choose to continue living in your sister's basement over getting some ass?

[Blaster]

(07-28-2013 10:26 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

He did both with authority and moral arguments. His moral arguments were, "Don't get married," "Pump and dump," "Marriage in America is a scam," etc. etc. Typical manosphere stuff.

Right, part of your point was that moral arguments are basically impossible to prove. "Don't get married" can be considered moral advice. All I'm saying is that it's more general than that. Any time you rely on fallacies to be persuasive it weakens your argument. Also-- you don't have to rely on appeal to authority/experience to make moral arguments. But, as you correctly pointed out, the nature of moral arguments makes it harder to use non-fallacious methods of persuasion.

[Hotwheels]

[Vronsky]

I only heard of this man through return of kings and thought he was filled with negative bile by reading that post and excerpts on this thread. I will bet that introspection and self reflection as to how his actions contributed to his current situation in life are lacking in his writing (this is going off the excerpts I read in this thread and return of kings - I could be entirely wrong).

What caught me though was that this is his 4th marriage?! 4th? The only common denominator in these marriages is him. Did his regular readers know that?.

Any woman who hangs around the dark areas of the manosphere on a regular basis has issues.

[Nemencine]

Giving a shite about Mark Minter's marriage. alpha or beta?

i know that the issue is more nuanced than some silly, dichotomous alpha vs beta stuff....however, if i may offer my humble opinion, respectfully, i think the brouhaha has gone far enough to the point where it is getting too overblown.

i understand the sense of betrayal, etc....but....at the very end of the day, we all have one life to live. if this is how he rolls, this is how he rolls...he doesnt own us anything. he. simply. just. doesnt. i think we all agree on that.

to be honest, if tomorrow, roosh decides to get a sex change operations in thailand and become a jezebel/lindy west's sex slave. It will not register emotionally with me. (Okay, i will laugh my arse off. chuckled. read some entertaining comments until my ribs hurts...and then say bloody frack it, man. that is roosh life.).

i read a little bit of the mark minter history, etc...and i understand the sense of betrayal...but i am starting to feel: everybody calm down. Maybe it is too early for me to say that, i dont know. But seriously, at the end of the day, who cares? The lad can do whatever the frack he wants. It is his life. He doesnt even own anybody an explanation. I think we all agree on that.

i must respectfully say that i find it incredulous that some people are actually having what seems to me to be an internet meltdown over the marriage/life of some internet lad named "Mark Minter"-- somebody that most of them probably never met in real life.

Trust me. Mark Minter wont be the first...or the last.....

Respectfully, there is no point acting like an ex-lover who got pumped and dumped, emotionally, by mark minter. The way i see it: okay, the lad said one thing and then turn around and do another? so fucking what? who bloody cares? In the Bible, God does that all the time. Zeus did that a lot. It is human, all-to-human. again, i understand the sense of betrayal...

But for heaven's sake, you are not some slut that was expecting a LTR then realizing that you are nothing by a SNL.


The reactions are starting to feel like a manophere's version of some slut buyer's remorse.


Here is one thing that is certain: If a car hit me today and knock me dead...mark minter wouldnt give a shite. and that is the god's honest truth. so, explain to me why i should care what he said or did or didnt do today or yesterday or tomorrow?

He is not my "hero", a personal friend, or parent. Even if he is all these three things, my response: Shite happens. On top of that, mark minter is just somebody that writes angry(and sometimes entertaining stuff) on the internet, nothing more or less.

i finish with a quote "stop letting people who do so little for you control so much of your mind, feelings and emotions". -- Will Smith.

that is my humble opinion.

regards,



THIS GOES FOR EVERYBODY: me, you, mark minter, roosh, or any of your "heroes".
.
.

[Samseau]

(07-29-2013 11:27 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

A junior high school picture expressing the concept of freedom... deep.

[stoney]

one of the main things i take away from this fiasco is how retarded the heartiste site has become...

1. to post that "announcement" in the first place

2. to encourage the garbage in the comments

3. the comment section in general has degenerated into a complete disaster

it's an old trope these days but that site has come a long way from what it used to be.

"preen"

[captaingeneric]

The main thing I take away from this entire fiasco is that much of the manosphere still has a lot of growing up to do.

It appears to me that much (maybe most) of what the manosphere writes is the truth - but only incidentally. The RVF strikes me as being particularly guilty of this. That is, you speak the truth about many topics, not because you are truthseekers per se, but only because the truth largely happens to converge with a worldview you happen to favor. A convenient but ultimately shaky foundation on which to build your ideology... and not much different from the average feminist quite frankly, who also speaks only out of self-interest. It just so happens that she does not have the truth on her side. Lucky.

And so you let an emoting blowhard like Mark Minter (and make no mistake, he is and always was an emoting blowhard - a fact that was obvious for those of us with eyes to see and ears to hear) speak for you, not because of the truth of his ideas and their capacity to withstand scrutiny... but rather because his writing - conveniently - happens to reaffirm your own worldview. And then you're SHOCKED when such an individual, who like many of you, blatantly speaks out of naked self-interest, shits all over his own flimsy convictions and embarrasses the lot of you in the process.

Lack of adherence to first principles. That is your weakness. But real education is hard.

I hate Fatrelle as much as the next guy, but I do hope he has a field day with this. The manosphere deserves to be punished for its lack of intellectual rigor.

[Blaster]

Problem with Futrelle is that he's neither clever or entertaining. It's too bad because the manosphere could use a good foil.

[DLZ]

(07-29-2013 04:14 PM)Blaster Wrote:  

Problem with Futrelle is that he's neither clever or entertaining. It's too bad because the manosphere could use a good foil.

Yeah. I think if your ideas are strong enough, they can hold against rigorous intellectual criticism. It's a bit disappointing to not see that much. I always challenge myself to read opposing viewpoints and dissect my own, just to keep things honest and sharp. You're doing yourself a great disservice if you don't.

[Samseau]

(07-29-2013 03:41 PM)captaingeneric Wrote:  

The main thing I take away from this entire fiasco is that much of the manosphere still has a lot of growing up to do.

It appears to me that much (maybe most) of what the manosphere writes is the truth - but only incidentally. The RVF strikes me as being particularly guilty of this. That is, you speak the truth about many topics, not because you are truthseekers per se, but only because the truth largely happens to converge with a worldview you happen to favor. A convenient but ultimately shaky foundation on which to build your ideology... and not much different from the average feminist quite frankly, who also speaks only out of self-interest. It just so happens that she does not have the truth on her side. Lucky.

And so you let an emoting blowhard like Mark Minter (and make no mistake, he is and always was an emoting blowhard - a fact that was obvious for those of us with eyes to see and ears to hear) speak for you, not because of the truth of his ideas and their capacity to withstand scrutiny... but rather because his writing - conveniently - happens to reaffirm your own worldview. And then you're SHOCKED when such an individual, who like many of you, blatantly speaks out of naked self-interest, shits all over his own flimsy convictions and embarrasses the lot of you in the process.

Lack of adherence to first principles. That is your weakness. But real education is hard.

I hate Fatrelle as much as the next guy, but I do hope he has a field day with this. The manosphere deserves to be punished for its lack of intellectual rigor.

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-26293-...#pid499471

[xsplat]

From a ReturnOfKings coment by Supramax:

Quote:

Supramax
Roosh, and the rest of ya, c’mon, Really. This is like a friend of yours who got married, got bitterly divorced, had some views and expressed those views to ‘never get married again’ (etc. etc.) and then found happiness witha woman and changed his tune. Love conquers all man. Smile and wish him the best. A man can change his mind and he’s happy. So what if he ‘went against’ his previous writings on the institution of marriage?’ SO WHAT ? Oh, and she’s a single mom ? Well maybe it will not only be good for the kid but for him as well – does that not strike you all as another possibly beautiful new relationship ? What if you were that young boy with a single Mom and she married a good man that you liked and liked you and could bring a lot to your life ? What about that kid ? What if Mark Minter benefits a lot from that boy-stepfather relationship too ? Is that in violation of some other ‘manosphere rules ‘ ? A lot of y’all are becoming Taliban like anti-marriage extremists. No no, you’ll say, “he wrote his views and went against them !!” so fu%&ing what ! He fell in love. Lighten up, really – you’re waaaaaay to invested in this.
“Manosphere Taliban” is what I hereby dub y’all

I agree and just don't understand those who are put off by the guy not sticking to his principles. What the fuck good are principles if they get in the way of improving your happiness and station in life and the happiness of those around you?

And those who feel betrayed, as if he was on your team and now joined the other side. What's up with that? Is it the men versus the women? Is that what's going on?

Seriously, there is some fucked up sense of allegiences and principles gripping the manosphere. It is NOT men versus women. It's each man for himself. And principles be damned.

Just be happy, the best you can.

That's all we are doing here.

He probably made a good move. Good on him. He didn't betray you, and his principles were not worth holding on to.