Try Rochester Hills, I just recently discovered it. Seems like an upscale version of Royal Oak. I don't think there are any hotels in Royal Oak, your best bet is AirBnB.
Detroit and Royal Oak Data Sheet
Quote: (04-16-2014 11:17 AM)BostonBMW Wrote:
I’m very interested in Detroit metro area. I’m looking to make plans for a visit in July/Aug, I have a few questions:
- It seems like Royal Oak is poppin. Any recommendations on hotels downtown? Preferably a spot with a bar/lounge downstairs. For logistics purposes.
- I have this stereotype of Midwestern white chicas as on the thicker side, polite, and easygoing. Any thoughts about optimizing my game? Can swoop a few girls over a 4 day weekend, using my high end, New England game? Or more down to earth approach (new in town, like it here) is required?
- My trip serves a dual purpose: scouting the area as a potential move destination and also gaming local girls/checking out nightlife. For this dual purpose: I have Royal Oak, Dearborn (I’m Middle Eastern), and Ann Arbor on deck to visit. Are there any other towns/cities you recommend keeping in mind that I’d like get a good feel for the region?
Sounds you guys have a nice setup between easy access to females and a decent cost of living.
RO isn't the greatest city of all time but many apts/houses are within walking distance of the bars. So it's great for logistics and the pricing is fair. Troy is too spread out and more restaurant game(for families also), Birmingham you need some cash, Bloomfield Hills is too spread out and even more expensive (wealthiest city in Michigan), Ferndale is..colorful..
I stayed in Downtown Rochester area for the summer and it's pretty good if you're looking for a RO alternative.
I heard downtown mt Clemons is pretty shitty now. It used to be good a few years ago until the closed a few bars.
Downtown Pontiac is also an option if you like the younger crowd. Tiki Bobs and Clutch Cargo admit 18+. I haven't been in years though.
When I get a chance I'll hit up downtown Rochester so I can write a mini data sheet.
A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
Quote: (04-16-2014 11:17 AM)BostonBMW Wrote:
I’m very interested in Detroit metro area. I’m looking to make plans for a visit in July/Aug, I have a few questions:
- It seems like Royal Oak is poppin. Any recommendations on hotels downtown? Preferably a spot with a bar/lounge downstairs. For logistics purposes.
Like others mentioned the Royal Oak area is conspicuously absent of any kind of real hotels, with the closest being around Madison Heights. In your case posting up in Downtown Detroit in the MGM Grand would be a good bet since there's a casino, V nightclub(one of the better clubs within city limits), and bars downstairs under the hotel. This is something to consider if you can't get an apartment in Royal Oak. Herein lies the issue with metro Detroit for visitors like us. All the nightlife areas are very spread apart and Royal Oak and Ferndale don't have any good per day lodging options which is odd since they are the main nightlife areas. The public transport essentially amounts to buses and cabs. AirBNB offers slim pickings that I can see(better for Ann Arbor). They used to rent out loft apartments to RO visitors, but city ordinances scrapped that pretty quickly unfortunately. I believe Uber offers a flat rate from Downtown Detroit to Downtown Royal Oak, but I cant find it anymore. So follow up with them.
- I have this stereotype of Midwestern white chicas as on the thicker side, polite, and easygoing. Any thoughts about optimizing my game? Can swoop a few girls over a 4 day weekend, using my high end, New England game? Or more down to earth approach (new in town, like it here) is required?
Downtown Detroit is your best bet for swooping considering the circumstances and Ann Arbor will be good too, since you can get a loft on Main Street. Unfortunately, most of the students will be gone, so it might be a bit hit or miss depending on when you go. I wouldn't worry too much about the stereotypes, just spit what works best for you in Boston. Based off personal experience the chicks are probably a bit nicer here than in Boston(spent 2 months there), but that's pretty subjective I guess.I'll suggest some upscale spots for you.
- My trip serves a dual purpose: scouting the area as a potential move destination and also gaming local girls/checking out nightlife. For this dual purpose: I have Royal Oak, Dearborn (I’m Middle Eastern), and Ann Arbor on deck to visit. Are there any other towns/cities you recommend keeping in mind that I’d like get a good feel for the region?
For four days its gonna be tough to fit in some of those other suggestions like Pontiac or Rochester Hills, if you also are doing the other places you mentioned. I'll mention some spots that will be in your general radius.
Ferndale(close to Royal Oak) -Hit JohnD on Friday. Upscale, with lots of smoking Arab and Black girls.
Dearborn-Hit Crave Lounge. Upscale. Best on Friday.
Novi- is on the way to Ann Arbor. 29 Park, Lucky Strikes, and the Liquor Store are some decent spots.
Downtown Detroit-MGM Grand and Club V. Mostly White and Arab girls.Go Saturday. Upscale. $20 cover. Skybar is also good on Saturdays.
In addition, the local guys have dropped a ton of great info here, so pore over that as well. Let me know your exact dates, as there might be something going on that I can put you on.
Quote:Quote:
When I get a chance I'll hit up downtown Rochester so I can write a mini data sheet.
Can't wait.
What's the bar(s) and restaurants in the Westin Book Cadillac like? Anyone been?
The place looks tits, so I've been wanting to check it out. I get into that old school class vibe.
Want to get over there and check out D firsthand and look at a couple places in Palmer Woods.
Want to get over there and check out D firsthand and look at a couple places in Palmer Woods.
So been reading and thought I'd throw in some data. Lived in Pontiac for 6 years and Royal Oak for 1. Grew up here in MI...
Pontiac is primarily 18-22 ish only clubs that will allow 18 and up from my knowledge are located here. I used to work at Tiki Bobs it's now closed only clubs here are Elektricity and Tonic. If you are older than 22 just stay away girls will think you are creepy imo.
As for Royal Oak. It's primarily known as a "douchebage bar city" girls from all over metro Detroit come here on the weekends. The meat markets are woodys, blackfinn, tequila blue, fifth avenue, and otooles. Woodys in the summer is made for easy pick ups just post up on the roof and approach. For less douchey scene check out Luna, commune, toms oyester bar, and Gusoline alley.
Ferndale is more gay/lesbian but I've picked up more hipster chicks here than in Royal Oak. For drinks go to the WAB. For bars and Clubs check out Rosie OGradys, grasshopper and orchid. There's many others but those have the largest concentration of girls.
I will write up a mini data sheet on Novi here pretty soon since I live in that area now. Sorry for any spelling mistakes currently typing this from my phone out in Tokyo.
Btw from friends... I hear coyote joes on Thursdays(girls night) is crazy! They go here weekly. Mostly college aged girls, I think.
Pontiac is primarily 18-22 ish only clubs that will allow 18 and up from my knowledge are located here. I used to work at Tiki Bobs it's now closed only clubs here are Elektricity and Tonic. If you are older than 22 just stay away girls will think you are creepy imo.
As for Royal Oak. It's primarily known as a "douchebage bar city" girls from all over metro Detroit come here on the weekends. The meat markets are woodys, blackfinn, tequila blue, fifth avenue, and otooles. Woodys in the summer is made for easy pick ups just post up on the roof and approach. For less douchey scene check out Luna, commune, toms oyester bar, and Gusoline alley.
Ferndale is more gay/lesbian but I've picked up more hipster chicks here than in Royal Oak. For drinks go to the WAB. For bars and Clubs check out Rosie OGradys, grasshopper and orchid. There's many others but those have the largest concentration of girls.
I will write up a mini data sheet on Novi here pretty soon since I live in that area now. Sorry for any spelling mistakes currently typing this from my phone out in Tokyo.
Btw from friends... I hear coyote joes on Thursdays(girls night) is crazy! They go here weekly. Mostly college aged girls, I think.
Quote: (04-18-2014 05:23 PM)limejelo Wrote:
So been reading and thought I'd throw in some data. Lived in Pontiac for 6 years and Royal Oak for 1. Grew up here in MI...
Pontiac is primarily 18-22 ish only clubs that will allow 18 and up from my knowledge are located here. I used to work at Tiki Bobs it's now closed only clubs here are Elektricity and Tonic. If you are older than 22 just stay away girls will think you are creepy imo.
As for Royal Oak. It's primarily known as a "douchebage bar city" girls from all over metro Detroit come here on the weekends. The meat markets are woodys, blackfinn, tequila blue, fifth avenue, and otooles. Woodys in the summer is made for easy pick ups just post up on the roof and approach. For less douchey scene check out Luna, commune, toms oyester bar, and Gusoline alley.
Ferndale is more gay/lesbian but I've picked up more hipster chicks here than in Royal Oak. For drinks go to the WAB. For bars and Clubs check out Rosie OGradys, grasshopper and orchid. There's many others but those have the largest concentration of girls.
I will write up a mini data sheet on Novi here pretty soon since I live in that area now. Sorry for any spelling mistakes currently typing this from my phone out in Tokyo.
Btw from friends... I hear coyote joes on Thursdays(girls night) is crazy! They go here weekly. Mostly college aged girls, I think.
Is there a bar named 'the liquor store' out in Ferndale? I could be getting the name wrong but it's in a huge complex with a resto and bowling alley.
Edit: meant Novi
A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
Quote: (04-18-2014 07:42 PM)Mentavious Wrote:
Is there a bar named 'the liquor store' out in Ferndale? I could be getting the name wrong but it's in a huge complex with a resto and bowling alley.
Nope, http://www.liquorstorenovi.com
The only bowling alley in Ferndale is next to the railroad tracks on 9 mile and it looks abandoned.
You may be thinking of Lucky Strike, but it's in Novi too.
http://www.bowlluckystrike.com/locations/michigan/novi/
The closest bowling to Ferndale is in Emagine Royal Oak
http://www.star-lanes.com
Quote: (04-18-2014 01:31 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:
What's the bar(s) and restaurants in the Westin Book Cadillac like? Anyone been?
If you come on a weekend with a Tigers game playing the area will be packed. Every summer I take a weekend to book a hotel at a casino to gamble, go see a game, and drink afterwards. Girls get hammered there or spend the night drinking at the bars nearby. Since the Westin is within a mile of the stadium you can use your room as an option to 'sober' up or continue for the after party. If not then you could meet some birds are the surrounding bars.
Greektown is also 1.5-2 miles away.
I'm not too familiar with the bars inside Westin
A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
Quote: (04-18-2014 07:50 PM)one-two Wrote:
Quote: (04-18-2014 07:42 PM)Mentavious Wrote:
Is there a bar named 'the liquor store' out in Ferndale? I could be getting the name wrong but it's in a huge complex with a resto and bowling alley.
Nope, http://www.liquorstorenovi.com
The only bowling alley in Ferndale is next to the railroad tracks on 9 mile and it looks abandoned.
You may be thinking of Lucky Strike, but it's in Novi too
http://www.bowlluckystrike.com/locations/michigan/novi/
Sorry meant Novi
A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
delete
A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
Quote: (04-18-2014 07:42 PM)Mentavious Wrote:
Quote: (04-18-2014 05:23 PM)limejelo Wrote:
So been reading and thought I'd throw in some data. Lived in Pontiac for 6 years and Royal Oak for 1. Grew up here in MI...
Pontiac is primarily 18-22 ish only clubs that will allow 18 and up from my knowledge are located here. I used to work at Tiki Bobs it's now closed only clubs here are Elektricity and Tonic. If you are older than 22 just stay away girls will think you are creepy imo.
As for Royal Oak. It's primarily known as a "douchebage bar city" girls from all over metro Detroit come here on the weekends. The meat markets are woodys, blackfinn, tequila blue, fifth avenue, and otooles. Woodys in the summer is made for easy pick ups just post up on the roof and approach. For less douchey scene check out Luna, commune, toms oyester bar, and Gusoline alley.
Ferndale is more gay/lesbian but I've picked up more hipster chicks here than in Royal Oak. For drinks go to the WAB. For bars and Clubs check out Rosie OGradys, grasshopper and orchid. There's many others but those have the largest concentration of girls.
I will write up a mini data sheet on Novi here pretty soon since I live in that area now. Sorry for any spelling mistakes currently typing this from my phone out in Tokyo.
Btw from friends... I hear coyote joes on Thursdays(girls night) is crazy! They go here weekly. Mostly college aged girls, I think.
Is there a bar named 'the liquor store' out in Ferndale? I could be getting the name wrong but it's in a huge complex with a resto and bowling alley.
Edit: meant Novi
The Liquor Store in Novi is decent. I used to go there almost every Saturday about 2 years ago but I haven't been in a while (I only went like 3 times last summer). There's some hot girls there and usually ratios are pretty good, the only downside to the place is that it's pretty much made for bachelorette parties. Seriously, any night you go there there'll be at least 2-4 going down which can be fun but often girls won't want to separate from their cliques at the end of the night so the ROI on macking on girls in these groups isn't very good.
The Liquor store is attached to Lucky Strike in Novi.
Went to a Tigers game last night all expense paid party bus to/from GR. It was a beautiful warm Spring night for a game. A few things I was reminded of:
(1) Detroit is really shitty. I'm not talking specific area like Royal Oak or Novi, just down by the ballparks. Just think of a rotting city, so they decide to build some casinos to add life to it. I'm not hating on the city, I'm just telling my impression as I don't go too often. I was hoping what a few of my friends have said was true..."actually downtown Detroit is pretty nice, it's improving". Maybe, but it's still a shit hole.
(2) There are still attractive women. I'm spoiled in Grand Rapids with attractive midwestern beauties (per my friends from other cities), but Detroit has some lookers. I was with a big group and didn't really approach any chics, but I would guess it's actually a decent city to game. Seems like you'd get young attractive women congregating in specific areas and bars.
(3) Events (ie baseball game) draw women regardless of the reason. It must be why men create events, to give bored single women something to do. Major sporting events draw a good crowd regardless of the city. I never felt unsafe...tho I might if I was walking around after the game alone...in one of the safest parts of Detroit.
(1) Detroit is really shitty. I'm not talking specific area like Royal Oak or Novi, just down by the ballparks. Just think of a rotting city, so they decide to build some casinos to add life to it. I'm not hating on the city, I'm just telling my impression as I don't go too often. I was hoping what a few of my friends have said was true..."actually downtown Detroit is pretty nice, it's improving". Maybe, but it's still a shit hole.
(2) There are still attractive women. I'm spoiled in Grand Rapids with attractive midwestern beauties (per my friends from other cities), but Detroit has some lookers. I was with a big group and didn't really approach any chics, but I would guess it's actually a decent city to game. Seems like you'd get young attractive women congregating in specific areas and bars.
(3) Events (ie baseball game) draw women regardless of the reason. It must be why men create events, to give bored single women something to do. Major sporting events draw a good crowd regardless of the city. I never felt unsafe...tho I might if I was walking around after the game alone...in one of the safest parts of Detroit.
“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
Quote: (04-16-2014 11:39 AM)one-two Wrote:
Try Rochester Hills, I just recently discovered it. Seems like an upscale version of Royal Oak. I don't think there are any hotels in Royal Oak, your best bet is AirBnB.
Adding RH to the list. Point noted on the hotel situation. I'll have a car and will be driving around the region.
Quote: (04-16-2014 03:50 PM)Mentavious Wrote:
Quote: (04-16-2014 11:17 AM)BostonBMW Wrote:
I’m very interested in Detroit metro area. I’m looking to make plans for a visit in July/Aug, I have a few questions:
- It seems like Royal Oak is poppin. Any recommendations on hotels downtown? Preferably a spot with a bar/lounge downstairs. For logistics purposes.
- I have this stereotype of Midwestern white chicas as on the thicker side, polite, and easygoing. Any thoughts about optimizing my game? Can swoop a few girls over a 4 day weekend, using my high end, New England game? Or more down to earth approach (new in town, like it here) is required?
- My trip serves a dual purpose: scouting the area as a potential move destination and also gaming local girls/checking out nightlife. For this dual purpose: I have Royal Oak, Dearborn (I’m Middle Eastern), and Ann Arbor on deck to visit. Are there any other towns/cities you recommend keeping in mind that I’d like get a good feel for the region?
Sounds you guys have a nice setup between easy access to females and a decent cost of living.
RO isn't the greatest city of all time but many apts/houses are within walking distance of the bars. So it's great for logistics and the pricing is fair. Troy is too spread out and more restaurant game(for families also), Birmingham you need some cash, Bloomfield Hills is too spread out and even more expensive (wealthiest city in Michigan), Ferndale is..colorful..
I stayed in Downtown Rochester area for the summer and it's pretty good if you're looking for a RO alternative.
I heard downtown mt Clemons is pretty shitty now. It used to be good a few years ago until the closed a few bars.
Downtown Pontiac is also an option if you like the younger crowd. Tiki Bobs and Clutch Cargo admit 18+. I haven't been in years though.
When I get a chance I'll hit up downtown Rochester so I can write a mini data sheet.
Thanks for the info. Spots noted. It looks like Rochester and Rochester Hills are pretty close by. I may need to post up there if the Royal Oak option doesn't work out.
I just went out in RO for the first time in months on Friday.
Bars were slow and the talent there was awful. Bouncers told me it was a slow night because cinco de Mayo is close.
Bars were slow and the talent there was awful. Bouncers told me it was a slow night because cinco de Mayo is close.
A man is only as faithful as his options-Chris Rock
Quote: (04-18-2014 12:44 PM)iWin Wrote:
Quote: (04-16-2014 11:17 AM)BostonBMW Wrote:
I’m very interested in Detroit metro area. I’m looking to make plans for a visit in July/Aug, I have a few questions:
- It seems like Royal Oak is poppin. Any recommendations on hotels downtown? Preferably a spot with a bar/lounge downstairs. For logistics purposes.
Like others mentioned the Royal Oak area is conspicuously absent of any kind of real hotels, with the closest being around Madison Heights. In your case posting up in Downtown Detroit in the MGM Grand would be a good bet since there's a casino, V nightclub(one of the better clubs within city limits), and bars downstairs under the hotel. This is something to consider if you can't get an apartment in Royal Oak. Herein lies the issue with metro Detroit for visitors like us. All the nightlife areas are very spread apart and Royal Oak and Ferndale don't have any good per day lodging options which is odd since they are the main nightlife areas. The public transport essentially amounts to buses and cabs. AirBNB offers slim pickings that I can see(better for Ann Arbor). They used to rent out loft apartments to RO visitors, but city ordinances scrapped that pretty quickly unfortunately. I believe Uber offers a flat rate from Downtown Detroit to Downtown Royal Oak, but I cant find it anymore. So follow up with them.
- I have this stereotype of Midwestern white chicas as on the thicker side, polite, and easygoing. Any thoughts about optimizing my game? Can swoop a few girls over a 4 day weekend, using my high end, New England game? Or more down to earth approach (new in town, like it here) is required?
Downtown Detroit is your best bet for swooping considering the circumstances and Ann Arbor will be good too, since you can get a loft on Main Street. Unfortunately, most of the students will be gone, so it might be a bit hit or miss depending on when you go. I wouldn't worry too much about the stereotypes, just spit what works best for you in Boston. Based off personal experience the chicks are probably a bit nicer here than in Boston(spent 2 months there), but that's pretty subjective I guess.I'll suggest some upscale spots for you.
- My trip serves a dual purpose: scouting the area as a potential move destination and also gaming local girls/checking out nightlife. For this dual purpose: I have Royal Oak, Dearborn (I’m Middle Eastern), and Ann Arbor on deck to visit. Are there any other towns/cities you recommend keeping in mind that I’d like get a good feel for the region?
For four days its gonna be tough to fit in some of those other suggestions like Pontiac or Rochester Hills, if you also are doing the other places you mentioned. I'll mention some spots that will be in your general radius.
Ferndale(close to Royal Oak) -Hit JohnD on Friday. Upscale, with lots of smoking Arab and Black girls.
Dearborn-Hit Crave Lounge. Upscale. Best on Friday.
Novi- is on the way to Ann Arbor. 29 Park, Lucky Strikes, and the Liquor Store are some decent spots.
Downtown Detroit-MGM Grand and Club V. Mostly White and Arab girls.Go Saturday. Upscale. $20 cover. Skybar is also good on Saturdays.
In addition, the local guys have dropped a ton of great info here, so pore over that as well. Let me know your exact dates, as there might be something going on that I can put you on.
IWin, first off, my apologies for the delay in reviewing the recommendations and responding. Besides the day job, I'm involved in 2 side hustles (1 is Real Estate) which take up the time. There has some great info dropped here by you and the other members.
I'm somewhat leery of staying in downtown Detroit, not because of any crime or violence, but rather due to the drive times to the metro Detroit locations that are most in Oakland County and western side of Wayne County (Dearborn to AA).
I realized that 4 days might not be enough, so I may need to push the trip to September (Labor Day), that way I'll get 5 days total. I''l definitely drop you a PM before the trip.
From a Real Estate and Quality of Life perspective, it sounds like Metro Detroit is solid. As for the city of Detroit, I do hope it comes back, however I don't want to be tied to it. I work in Corporate Finance, just need a decent paying job, an affordable spot to live, and I'll be happy.
I have that RVF's value comes from threads like these. I can ask about both the living aspect as well as game.
I'll drop a sheet after I come back from this trip.
How is the 29 Park in Novi these days?
What kind of crowd? I've always had invites but never checked it out.
I used to get hooked up at the 29 Parks' in Windsor and London (Ontario) when I knew managers and bartenders there, but the one in London converted into another club and I haven't reached Windsor recently.
Also I mentioned this to Menta in the RVF chat, anyone hit up music events like Dilla Day or D.E.M.F?
Thoughts on those?
What kind of crowd? I've always had invites but never checked it out.
I used to get hooked up at the 29 Parks' in Windsor and London (Ontario) when I knew managers and bartenders there, but the one in London converted into another club and I haven't reached Windsor recently.
Also I mentioned this to Menta in the RVF chat, anyone hit up music events like Dilla Day or D.E.M.F?
Thoughts on those?
Quote: (05-04-2014 09:15 PM)BostonBMW Wrote:
From a Real Estate and Quality of Life perspective, it sounds like Metro Detroit is solid. As for the city of Detroit, I do hope it comes back, however I don't want to be tied to it. I work in Corporate Finance, just need a decent paying job, an affordable spot to live, and I'll be happy.
I have that RVF's value comes from threads like these. I can ask about both the living aspect as well as game.
I'll drop a sheet after I come back from this trip.
No worries, I hear you concerning those points, and was just offering a different perspective. Definitely, hit me up if you come through.
Quote: (05-04-2014 10:33 PM)LeBeau Wrote:
How is the 29 Park in Novi these days?
What kind of crowd? I've always had invites but never checked it out.
I used to get hooked up at the 29 Parks' in Windsor and London (Ontario) when I knew managers and bartenders there, but the one in London converted into another club and I haven't reached Windsor recently.
Also I mentioned this to Menta in the RVF chat, anyone hit up music events like Dilla Day or D.E.M.F?
Thoughts on those?
29 Park is solid, with a more upscale crowd. Nice talent. The drinks are a little bit over priced, and music is the typical top 40s stuff. One of the better clubs in Metro Detroit, since it consistently gets packed and has pretty diverse crowd of girls(if you value that).
As far as DEMF, I went last year,and I'm not a huge electronic music fan, but in terms of game there are much less expensive options. I think it was about $60 to get in and it was by and large a sausage fest, although I met a few nice looking chicks there. The after parties i went to were not much better, but it will largely depend on which party you attend. I would skip if you aren't into the EDM scene.
Quote: (09-14-2013 07:03 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:
How about a Detroit proper hip hop hoodrat data sheet.
Tangent Gallery has some hip-hop hoodrat talent. Two levels inside, but looks hella small on the outside.
Security checks and ice grills, per standard
If you have your style together, you can easily pull out of there. The guys are corny as fuck.
MDP
Quote: (04-22-2014 11:30 AM)heavy Wrote:
Went to a Tigers game last night all expense paid party bus to/from GR. It was a beautiful warm Spring night for a game. A few things I was reminded of:
(1) Detroit is really shitty. I'm not talking specific area like Royal Oak or Novi, just down by the ballparks. Just think of a rotting city, so they decide to build some casinos to add life to it. I'm not hating on the city, I'm just telling my impression as I don't go too often. I was hoping what a few of my friends have said was true..."actually downtown Detroit is pretty nice, it's improving". Maybe, but it's still a shit hole.
(2) There are still attractive women. I'm spoiled in Grand Rapids with attractive midwestern beauties (per my friends from other cities), but Detroit has some lookers. I was with a big group and didn't really approach any chics, but I would guess it's actually a decent city to game. Seems like you'd get young attractive women congregating in specific areas and bars.
(3) Events (ie baseball game) draw women regardless of the reason. It must be why men create events, to give bored single women something to do. Major sporting events draw a good crowd regardless of the city. I never felt unsafe...tho I might if I was walking around after the game alone...in one of the safest parts of Detroit.
Love GR, used to live in Kalamazoo so we would come north all the time. Pretty women, cool venues & a bubbling music scene on the low. Only 40 mins up 131, still have some good friends/music buddies there. It's like a 2nd home...
MDP
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