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M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)
#76

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

The largest clinical study of HGH replacement therapy in ‘normal’ older people shows that it “appears to improve several attributes believed in many to be associated with performance, quality of life and longevity,” says Dr. L. Cass Terry, Chairman and professor of neurology at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee. Terry reported his findings at the Fifth Scientific Conference of the American Academy of anti-aging medicine in December 1996.

According to Terry, the largest effects were seen among those who were most deficient in HGH. The study was based on the analysis of 320 responses to self-assessment questionnaires drawn from a group of more than 900 patients, 200 of which were physicians. The patients, who were between ages thirty-nine and seventy-four, had been treated an average of 191 days. Terry analyzed the data before and after treatment so that each person served as his or her own control.

Dr. Terry found that total cholesterol and triglycerides dropped significantly in both men and women. There were striking changes in muscles and body fat. 88 percent reported a loss of body fat. IGF-1 levels increased by 61 percent, from an average of 239 before treatment, to an average of 385 after treatment. In addition, 76 percent reported an increase in sexual potency and frequency, 84 percent reported higher energy levels, 80
percent reported an improved attitude towards life
and 64 percent reported having a better memory.

Terry believes that the regimen used in his study more closely mimics the normal physiologic pulsating-like pattern of HGH release.\n




Just leave it alone man, trying to discredit a miracle drug thats developed for muscle repair for people with aids/cancer .
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#77

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (07-23-2010 01:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (07-05-2010 01:32 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Quote: (07-05-2010 01:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.

The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.

Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.

I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.

Making money to me just to get women isn't worth it. Pussy is just not that great. In the end you have to wonder are you meeting your sexual needs or just flat out going for ego gratification. I've been with some really hot girls and honestly it is not that big of a deal. Pussy is pussy, she has what she has what she has what she has. I'm really don't see why you would slave yourself making money in the best years of your life just to enjoy hot women when you are older. Find something that makes you happy and do that regardless if the women come to your door step or not.

And what if your passion in life includes fucking beautiful women?

I don't completely buy the whole Pook style arguments that you should ignore women and focus on what you love and someday women will come to you, for three reasons:

1. What I love to do makes me no money. I can't even survive on doing what I love, never mind date.

2. Going without sex for longer than a year does terrible things to your mind. It's bearable, but a slow, painful existence nonetheless. And it's all subconscious, so there's no controlling the basic need for sex.

3. Life isn't fair. It's not about what you want. If you want to have something, then you will have to give something else (such as time or money).

I'd say the American dream today is a bastardized version of what it used to be back in the 17-18th century.

It was never "do what you love and let the world come to you" but instead "work hard and you might have a decent existence". Today men everywhere have their hopes and desires inflated to unsustainable levels, when back in the good, Christian days of America's existence, people had a very modest conception of America and what they could expect in their life.


Sorry if this reply is more the needed but I am long winded as hell.....

I just don't see how sex with lots of different women makes one happy. Womanizing is fun but an endless adventure where you will never be satisfied. It reminds me of the level of hell in Dante's inferno of a man who had to go in circles for eternity life loading the cart with rocks on one hemisphere of the circle and depositing them on the other (only to have to put the rocks in the cart when he was back to the starting point he left). Sacrificing your youth just so you can enjoy the same physical sensation you could get in your youth as an old man is not a wise trade off.


Everyone who has banged a hot woman knows that the desire for her is far more of a powerful draw then the actual obtainment. A good analogy can found in the movie American Beauty when Lester, a forty five year old man that has never fucked a virgin, lusts after the young, promiscuous (or so we are led to believe) fertile Angela. In the end of the movie, Lester obtains an invitation from Angela to pound her like a gorilla only to decline her offer after his fantasy comes crashing down by Angela's revelation that she is a virgin and the emptiness of obtaining sex without any meaning (i.e. reality) sets over him. PUA's, Womanizers, etc give meaning to sex as a way of justifying the numerous amounts of time they dedicate to fucking women Stripped of all the fantasy and arguments for the legitimacy of pursuit PUA's make of the act (claiming to be "alpha's" rather then "beta's for example), sex is just sticking your dick in something warm and wet, nothing more nothing less. After fucking a hot girl and the blinders of lust are gone a new feeling sets over you, a feeling of unsatisfaction, which is what makes a lifestyle of endless fucking contrary to happiness.

On maslow's hierarchy of needs fucking is at the very bottom, you must have other passions which will make your life more fulfilling. This is why my opinion is to do what you love regardless if women come flocking or not. I know for a fact that I love studying and reading books and discussing knowledge with learned individuals. I could give a two hour lubed up hardcore ass fuck if the "tens" in the world consider that low status. Maybe hooking up with a different woman a night may satisfy the childhood wounds one may have suffered with initial female rejection (ala Roosh or the vast majority of PUA's and those inspiring to become one) but it sure as hell won't make life worth living.

My hope is you do what gives you meaning in life brotha (and if sex is your passion you should try and become a porn star).

Ish Gibbor
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#78

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-11-2010 02:49 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Do a simple test - show those pics to a few girls and ask them how old they think those guys are. If any of them tells you they look 20, I'll buy you a beer.

Not to take a side in this debate either way, but their age is reflected by the condition of their skin which is largely a factor of sun damage. If these guys had stayed out of the sun, or followed some of the well known protocols for protecting skin from sun damage they would look much younger. A guy doesn't have to "look 20" to have the insides of a much younger man. Age on the inside is determined by how much he has protected his body from cellular damage over the years.
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#79

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-13-2010 08:55 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  

Why so upset ? Serge has said he has been with many woman. Movie star , pro bodybuilder. Was paid to travel to world and was the focus everywhere he went. You really gonna say he hasn't ?

No, I just pointed out that you are claiming something as a fact, while all you have is hearsay. And this is not just about him, it is about pretty much everything in this thread, starting from effects HGH have on aging.

Quote:Quote:

Also you seem really that insecure about seeing pictures of the greatest body builders of the world.

No, it just looks gay when a dude collects pics of other half-naked dudes and fills up his posts with them.
Reply
#80

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-13-2010 08:58 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  

You do realize , they prescribe HGH for HIV patients.

You do realize a significant difference between a healthy adult (as we are), and HIV-infected patients?

Quote: (08-13-2010 09:01 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  

A recent study has found that it can help treat troublesome complications from the AIDS virus, but with potentially risky side effects.

I mentioned this study already in post #66, and even pointed out that its applicability to healthy adults is not clear, as they do not have many issues associated with AIDS.
Reply
#81

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-16-2010 03:34 AM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Quote: (07-23-2010 01:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (07-05-2010 01:32 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Quote: (07-05-2010 01:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.

The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.

Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.

I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.

Making money to me just to get women isn't worth it. Pussy is just not that great. In the end you have to wonder are you meeting your sexual needs or just flat out going for ego gratification. I've been with some really hot girls and honestly it is not that big of a deal. Pussy is pussy, she has what she has what she has what she has. I'm really don't see why you would slave yourself making money in the best years of your life just to enjoy hot women when you are older. Find something that makes you happy and do that regardless if the women come to your door step or not.

And what if your passion in life includes fucking beautiful women?

I don't completely buy the whole Pook style arguments that you should ignore women and focus on what you love and someday women will come to you, for three reasons:

1. What I love to do makes me no money. I can't even survive on doing what I love, never mind date.

2. Going without sex for longer than a year does terrible things to your mind. It's bearable, but a slow, painful existence nonetheless. And it's all subconscious, so there's no controlling the basic need for sex.

3. Life isn't fair. It's not about what you want. If you want to have something, then you will have to give something else (such as time or money).

I'd say the American dream today is a bastardized version of what it used to be back in the 17-18th century.

It was never "do what you love and let the world come to you" but instead "work hard and you might have a decent existence". Today men everywhere have their hopes and desires inflated to unsustainable levels, when back in the good, Christian days of America's existence, people had a very modest conception of America and what they could expect in their life.


Sorry if this reply is more the needed but I am long winded as hell.....

I just don't see how sex with lots of different women makes one happy. Womanizing is fun but an endless adventure where you will never be satisfied. It reminds me of the level of hell in Dante's inferno of a man who had to go in circles for eternity life loading the cart with rocks on one hemisphere of the circle and depositing them on the other (only to have to put the rocks in the cart when he was back to the starting point he left). Sacrificing your youth just so you can enjoy the same physical sensation you could get in your youth as an old man is not a wise trade off.


Everyone who has banged a hot woman knows that the desire for her is far more of a powerful draw then the actual obtainment. A good analogy can found in the movie American Beauty when Lester, a forty five year old man that has never fucked a virgin, lusts after the young, promiscuous (or so we are led to believe) fertile Angela. In the end of the movie, Lester obtains an invitation from Angela to pound her like a gorilla only to decline her offer after his fantasy comes crashing down by Angela's revelation that she is a virgin and the emptiness of obtaining sex without any meaning (i.e. reality) sets over him. PUA's, Womanizers, etc give meaning to sex as a way of justifying the numerous amounts of time they dedicate to fucking women Stripped of all the fantasy and arguments for the legitimacy of pursuit PUA's make of the act (claiming to be "alpha's" rather then "beta's for example), sex is just sticking your dick in something warm and wet, nothing more nothing less. After fucking a hot girl and the blinders of lust are gone a new feeling sets over you, a feeling of unsatisfaction, which is what makes a lifestyle of endless fucking contrary to happiness.

On maslow's hierarchy of needs fucking is at the very bottom, you must have other passions which will make your life more fulfilling. This is why my opinion is to do what you love regardless if women come flocking or not. I know for a fact that I love studying and reading books and discussing knowledge with learned individuals. I could give a two hour lubed up hardcore ass fuck if the "tens" in the world consider that low status. Maybe hooking up with a different woman a night may satisfy the childhood wounds one may have suffered with initial female rejection (ala Roosh or the vast majority of PUA's and those inspiring to become one) but it sure as hell won't make life worth living.

My hope is you do what gives you meaning in life brotha (and if sex is your passion you should try and become a porn star).

Ish Gibbor

Great post. Most true. Also, trying to bang endless hot girls when your 50-60 will not only be frustrating in terms of emotional fulfillment, but probably much less fruitful. You gotta build an actual life while your young enough to do so.

I look at game as a means to better enable me to eventually build a life with the woman of my choice. Even now, sex without love is boring to me after a very short while.
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#82

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-16-2010 06:22 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Quote: (08-13-2010 08:58 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  

You do realize , they prescribe HGH for HIV patients.

You do realize a significant difference between a healthy adult (as we are), and HIV-infected patients?

Quote: (08-13-2010 09:01 AM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  

A recent study has found that it can help treat troublesome complications from the AIDS virus, but with potentially risky side effects.

I mentioned this study already in post #66, and even pointed out that its applicability to healthy adults is not clear, as they do not have many issues associated with AIDS.

Human growth hormone (HGH) has been used by body builders for years to promote physical enhancement.

When a person's pituitary glands release human growth hormone, it causes their liver to release IGF-1. IGF-1 is at its highest in childhood, and, as a person ages, the level of HGH their body produces declines. Normally, after puberty, your body stops growing new muscle cells. The number of muscle cells you have for the rest of your life is genetic, and the most you can do is increase the size of these cells through weight training or steroids. However, by using HGH, you can actually grow new muscle cells. This allows you to reverse genetic dispositions and achieve an ideal muscle density.

Human growth hormone raises your energy level and metabolism, causing you to both feel more active and burn fat. In fact, the only weight that you will gain while taking HGH is weight from lean muscle. Unlike steroids, the weight gain from HGH is slow -- normal weight gain results are one to two pounds of lean muscle every two to three weeks. With steroids, you gain mostly water weight; with human growth hormone, you gain only lean muscle mass. Human growth hormone also forces your body to burn fat for energy. This means that body builders can eat a lot of food when necessary and not gain unwanted weight from fat.

As a body building drug, HGH increases lean body mass, shortens recovery time between workouts, and enhances overall performance with less risk of detection than other performance-enhancing drugs. HGH strengthens joints and ligaments and heals damaged tissue.

Other body building benefits of human growth hormone include increased protein synthesis abilities, an increase in the amount of insulin a person can use effectively, and an increase in the amount of anabolic steroids a person can use effectively.

One myth that surrounds the use of human growth hormone in body building is that it causes an extended belly. This is not actually caused by HGH itself; rather, it is caused too frequent doses at too high levels. Taking HGH as directed by your pharmaceutical supplier will not cause such disfigurement.

Human growth hormone increases strength, promotes healthy weight gain, promotes fat loss, and decreases muscle loss during off periods. The side effects of using HGH as a body building drug are minimal and rare. Users claim that they achieve desired results. HGH does not cause abnormal bone growth (Acromegalia). After a person's period of natural growth in childhood, the ends of their bones fuse and quit growing.


_________________________


Keep on making excuses on how HGh doesnt work. On how Stallone doesnt use HGH . On how they dont study and use HGH in the medical world . Keep on bringing up your one little study done on elderly people. I can find 1000 to counter it.

And fuck your side effects . Stop being a little girly man. You get side effects from every thing in this world. Smoking kills you but does it stop the billion people who smoke daily. Cocaine kills you , but does it stop it from people taking it. eating fast food will kills you . The list goes on.

Keep on listening to the propaganda from the government about steroids and how unsafe they are. Keep on being a mindless drone. Because I feel like a god when im on Test Prop and from what I hear about HGH , its the best thing ever once your over 30 years old. Men have been producing less and less testosterone since the 80's. If you like wearing skinning jeans and having a body like a woman , dont listen to the next tips , Im about to list.

How to look like a god in your 40s and fuck woman half your age.
Step 1 . Have desire/Dedication .
Step 2 . Live a healthy lifestyle , work out , cycle, snowboard , surf . Balance is key . Spring / Summer . I cycle and bodybuild. Once winter comes , im off snowboarding .
Step 3 . Replace your low levels of testosterone/HGH and go on HRT. Go to any health clinic in the USA and get prescribe legal steroids and GH . Its a mutli billion dollar industry , and in the good old USA , money talks.

Step 4 . Wear sunscreen daily , buy a vitamin C serum for Anti Aging. This stuff is amazing , one of the best purchases I ever made for my skin. Makes your skin glow.
Good article about how to fight anti aging. http://www.scform.com/2010/06/argh-first...geing.html

Step 5 , get your self a decent paying job, you dont have to make killer money to live a fun single lifestyle. I live in one of the most expensive city's in the world and only need $40,000 a year to live good.

[Image: fx46f6.png]
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#83

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-16-2010 09:00 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  

Human growth hormone (HGH) has been used by body builders for years to promote physical enhancement.

Please note that we were talking in this thread about anti-aging effects on healthy adults (i.e. look 20 years younger), which is interesting for the most of us. You are, however, constantly trying to derail the discussion into the professional bodybuilder stuff, which is not interesting personally to me, and - in my opinion - is not something most people in this forum would be interested in. It may be shocking for you to learn that not everyone wants to look like those guys on the pictures you posted, but it is indeed the case (I'd personally commit suicide if I ever looked like that as it is plain UGLY).

Quote:Quote:

Human growth hormone raises your energy level and metabolism, causing you to both feel more active and burn fat. In fact, the only weight that you will gain while taking HGH is weight from lean muscle. Unlike steroids, the weight gain from HGH is slow -- normal weight gain results are one to two pounds of lean muscle every two to three weeks.

Unfortunately the words you say have little value because you did not quote a respectable source. This means we need to take your word for that, and so far you did not post anything like your educational credentials which would confirm that you know what you're talking about, and not just copy-pasting ads from web sites selling HGH supplements - which is exactly what you do. For example, this paragraph was copy-pasted from http://getropin.com/hgh8.htm which is selling HGH and does not reference any study

Quote:Quote:

Keep on making excuses on how HGh doesnt work. On how Stallone doesnt use HGH .

Keep on speculating that HGH is related to anti-aging while Stanford University study says the opposite. It gets more and more funny with each post when someone tries to discredit the reputable medical study with copypasta from unknown web sites written by anonymous people.
And you still did not provide any evidence that Stallone USES hgh, not to mention that HGH has any relationship with him looking younger for his age.

Quote:Quote:

And fuck your side effects . Stop being a little girly man.

Oh, go ahead. But I see little value looking 30 when you're 60 if your dick doesn't get up at all. I'm not into eating pussy that much.

Quote:Quote:

Because I feel like a god when im on Test Prop and from what I hear about HGH , its the best thing ever once your over 30 years old.

Oh, go ahead, be the test subject for the industry. They need people to believe their ads and buy their stuff. At least this will create jobs.
(and if you buy iPad, it will add 2 inches to your dick too!)

Quote:Quote:

Step 5 , get your self a decent paying job, you dont have to make killer money to live a fun single lifestyle. I live in one of the most expensive city's in the world and only need $40,000 a year to live good.

LOL. Where I live (Bay Area) if you make 40K a year you'd qualify for state aid. Here it is something a typical developer makes in three months.
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#84

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-16-2010 07:38 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Great post. Most true. Also, trying to bang endless hot girls when your 50-60 will not only be frustrating in terms of emotional fulfillment, but probably much less fruitful. You gotta build an actual life while your young enough to do so.

I look at game as a means to better enable me to eventually build a life with the woman of my choice. Even now, sex without love is boring to me after a very short while.

Excellent summary. All I can add that with years is that the older I become, the less incentive I have to actually pursue women, even though my wife is ok with that. But we're past the stage you mention, as we've been together now over 10 years, have a bunch of kids and maintain pretty open relationship so it may not be a typical situation.
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#85

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-16-2010 03:34 AM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Quote: (07-23-2010 01:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (07-05-2010 01:32 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Quote: (07-05-2010 01:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.

The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.

Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.

I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.

Making money to me just to get women isn't worth it. Pussy is just not that great. In the end you have to wonder are you meeting your sexual needs or just flat out going for ego gratification. I've been with some really hot girls and honestly it is not that big of a deal. Pussy is pussy, she has what she has what she has what she has. I'm really don't see why you would slave yourself making money in the best years of your life just to enjoy hot women when you are older. Find something that makes you happy and do that regardless if the women come to your door step or not.

And what if your passion in life includes fucking beautiful women?

I don't completely buy the whole Pook style arguments that you should ignore women and focus on what you love and someday women will come to you, for three reasons:

1. What I love to do makes me no money. I can't even survive on doing what I love, never mind date.

2. Going without sex for longer than a year does terrible things to your mind. It's bearable, but a slow, painful existence nonetheless. And it's all subconscious, so there's no controlling the basic need for sex.

3. Life isn't fair. It's not about what you want. If you want to have something, then you will have to give something else (such as time or money).

I'd say the American dream today is a bastardized version of what it used to be back in the 17-18th century.

It was never "do what you love and let the world come to you" but instead "work hard and you might have a decent existence". Today men everywhere have their hopes and desires inflated to unsustainable levels, when back in the good, Christian days of America's existence, people had a very modest conception of America and what they could expect in their life.


Sorry if this reply is more the needed but I am long winded as hell.....

I just don't see how sex with lots of different women makes one happy. Womanizing is fun but an endless adventure where you will never be satisfied. It reminds me of the level of hell in Dante's inferno of a man who had to go in circles for eternity life loading the cart with rocks on one hemisphere of the circle and depositing them on the other (only to have to put the rocks in the cart when he was back to the starting point he left). Sacrificing your youth just so you can enjoy the same physical sensation you could get in your youth as an old man is not a wise trade off.


Everyone who has banged a hot woman knows that the desire for her is far more of a powerful draw then the actual obtainment. A good analogy can found in the movie American Beauty when Lester, a forty five year old man that has never fucked a virgin, lusts after the young, promiscuous (or so we are led to believe) fertile Angela. In the end of the movie, Lester obtains an invitation from Angela to pound her like a gorilla only to decline her offer after his fantasy comes crashing down by Angela's revelation that she is a virgin and the emptiness of obtaining sex without any meaning (i.e. reality) sets over him. PUA's, Womanizers, etc give meaning to sex as a way of justifying the numerous amounts of time they dedicate to fucking women Stripped of all the fantasy and arguments for the legitimacy of pursuit PUA's make of the act (claiming to be "alpha's" rather then "beta's for example), sex is just sticking your dick in something warm and wet, nothing more nothing less. After fucking a hot girl and the blinders of lust are gone a new feeling sets over you, a feeling of unsatisfaction, which is what makes a lifestyle of endless fucking contrary to happiness.

On maslow's hierarchy of needs fucking is at the very bottom, you must have other passions which will make your life more fulfilling. This is why my opinion is to do what you love regardless if women come flocking or not. I know for a fact that I love studying and reading books and discussing knowledge with learned individuals. I could give a two hour lubed up hardcore ass fuck if the "tens" in the world consider that low status. Maybe hooking up with a different woman a night may satisfy the childhood wounds one may have suffered with initial female rejection (ala Roosh or the vast majority of PUA's and those inspiring to become one) but it sure as hell won't make life worth living.

My hope is you do what gives you meaning in life brotha (and if sex is your passion you should try and become a porn star).

Ish Gibbor

So, let's take a quick recap of our argument thus far, and see if I can point out our differences:

- I say money is very important to having success with women.
- You say, fuck money, fuck women, do what you love.
- I say, doing what you love to bring happiness is impossible. There are other considerations to human happiness.
- You say, women are over rated, money is over rated, these things will just consume your time and life and leave you empty.

My response: doing what you love will not make you happy.


When Lester's inner beta comes out at the end of American Beauty, you see a man who realizes sex isn't the most important thing in life, whereas I see a man who is still confused about what he wants.

Isn't that the entire point of American Beauty? Lester is a guy who suffers his midlife crisis when he finds no "fulfillment" with his current life, and begins to explore the world outside of normal societal duties. He quits his job, dabbles in drugs, fantasizes about new women, works out... and then is met with an untimely death? He doesn't do shit with his life. At one point he throws away everything he has just to try and figure out something else to do, and rather than show if he's successful for living outside of the mold, he's murdered (to avoid the difficulty of making a real ending).

BUT AT LEAST HE DIES HAPPY! RIGHT?!?!

Talk about a shitty movie where there is nothing to learn... no lesson to observe... and just the same old crap that gets posted all over new-agey self-help books everywhere: "Find what you want, be who you are, do what makes you happy..." It's just popular trash culture, it has no long term value and will be forgotten within 50 years. The lesson to take from American Beauty is reflected in the meaninglessness of it's plot:

"Were not sure what this movie is about, but if you like making movies as much as we do, you should too! (if it makes you happy?)" Confused, just like Lester.

Let me shake things up for you, Ish.

There is no such thing as living your life "in search" of happiness. I agree with Nicomachean Ethics: Happiness comes from virtue, a sum of collected good habits of living between extremes of character. Happiness is not simply doing what you love. If all you do is what you love, you will be unhappy. Happiness, in large part, comes from things external to who you are.
Easy examples include food, sleep, and sex. (there's also morals... but lets not go there!) I find game as the vehicle to satisfy one of my base needs. It's also a lot of fun. Would I make my entire life out of it? Of course not. Not many would. But it's something I will perfect over my life, like I do with my lifting.

Aristotle teaches us that a degenerated form of democracy (from the Politics), where everyone "does what they want", will always end in social failure, because it breeds vice. This runs counter to what you recommend, Ish. But I don't blame you for believing what you do. You are simply part of the zeitgeist of excessive individualism that is destroying Western Civ right now, just like everyone else who posts on this site (myself included... but I would love to see things change).


I know a man... has two kids, a dog, a wife (when he married her, she was only a 6 out of 10, but has now aged into a 4.5), worked his whole life like a slave... runs daily, does a few marathons... built up his own wealth from decades of work... his greatest moments of hedonism come from cookouts with his family provided by his wife while swimming in his pool... works in china about 1/2 of the year away from his family with a bunch of morons who do not speak English, or barely speak it... he's mid 40's...

The happiest man I've ever met. Both him and his wife still love each other. And he didn't become this way by "doing what he loves".

When my father divorced a few years ago, I had no place to live, but this man was kind enough to spot me for 6 months in his house, with his wife and kids (who were my age, so it was a lot of fun). I got to see how he lived, and how his family life worked.

By any standard of the roissysphere, or PUA sphere, he's just a wee little beta male living a meager life... with almost no game... but by Aristotle's account, he's virtuous. His happiness reflected this. That's what counts, and that's what he has. While Mystery was going to therapy for suicide, this man was teaching his sons about history and politics.


Money (survival) and sex are very important to us as required by our biology. It makes perfect sense to try and accumulate as much of these two goods as possible, even if it means to sacrifice "doing what you love". The fact that sex is on the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy shows the extreme importance of sex, because the bottom of the pyramid has greater priority over the top. Money and sex may not be sufficient for the good life, but they are necessary.

Therefore, doing what you love will not make you happy.

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

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#86

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-17-2010 09:58 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  

A new study suggests the skeptics are wrong and the cheaters are right about human growth hormone — it does enhance athletic performance.
...
Keep on making excuses on how HGH doesnt work.

Do you actually read the replies? That is what I wrote in post 83 above:

Please note that we were talking in this thread about anti-aging effects on healthy adults (i.e. look 20 years younger), which is interesting for the most of us. You are, however, constantly trying to derail the discussion into the professional bodybuilder stuff, which is not interesting personally to me, and - in my opinion - is not something most people in this forum would be interested in.

And you still bringing up new irrelevant examples.

By the way, do not copy-paste articles, provide links to them. Some of the sites you copy stuff from actually prohibit that, so technically you're violating their copyright.
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#87

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

I've deleted a lot of this HGH copy and paste stuff. Post a new thread if that's what you want to talk about it.
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#88

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-17-2010 10:11 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (08-16-2010 03:34 AM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Quote: (07-23-2010 01:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (07-05-2010 01:32 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Quote: (07-05-2010 01:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.

The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.

Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.

I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.

Making money to me just to get women isn't worth it. Pussy is just not that great. In the end you have to wonder are you meeting your sexual needs or just flat out going for ego gratification. I've been with some really hot girls and honestly it is not that big of a deal. Pussy is pussy, she has what she has what she has what she has. I'm really don't see why you would slave yourself making money in the best years of your life just to enjoy hot women when you are older. Find something that makes you happy and do that regardless if the women come to your door step or not.

And what if your passion in life includes fucking beautiful women?

I don't completely buy the whole Pook style arguments that you should ignore women and focus on what you love and someday women will come to you, for three reasons:

1. What I love to do makes me no money. I can't even survive on doing what I love, never mind date.

2. Going without sex for longer than a year does terrible things to your mind. It's bearable, but a slow, painful existence nonetheless. And it's all subconscious, so there's no controlling the basic need for sex.

3. Life isn't fair. It's not about what you want. If you want to have something, then you will have to give something else (such as time or money).

I'd say the American dream today is a bastardized version of what it used to be back in the 17-18th century.

It was never "do what you love and let the world come to you" but instead "work hard and you might have a decent existence". Today men everywhere have their hopes and desires inflated to unsustainable levels, when back in the good, Christian days of America's existence, people had a very modest conception of America and what they could expect in their life.


Sorry if this reply is more the needed but I am long winded as hell.....

I just don't see how sex with lots of different women makes one happy. Womanizing is fun but an endless adventure where you will never be satisfied. It reminds me of the level of hell in Dante's inferno of a man who had to go in circles for eternity life loading the cart with rocks on one hemisphere of the circle and depositing them on the other (only to have to put the rocks in the cart when he was back to the starting point he left). Sacrificing your youth just so you can enjoy the same physical sensation you could get in your youth as an old man is not a wise trade off.


Everyone who has banged a hot woman knows that the desire for her is far more of a powerful draw then the actual obtainment. A good analogy can found in the movie American Beauty when Lester, a forty five year old man that has never fucked a virgin, lusts after the young, promiscuous (or so we are led to believe) fertile Angela. In the end of the movie, Lester obtains an invitation from Angela to pound her like a gorilla only to decline her offer after his fantasy comes crashing down by Angela's revelation that she is a virgin and the emptiness of obtaining sex without any meaning (i.e. reality) sets over him. PUA's, Womanizers, etc give meaning to sex as a way of justifying the numerous amounts of time they dedicate to fucking women Stripped of all the fantasy and arguments for the legitimacy of pursuit PUA's make of the act (claiming to be "alpha's" rather then "beta's for example), sex is just sticking your dick in something warm and wet, nothing more nothing less. After fucking a hot girl and the blinders of lust are gone a new feeling sets over you, a feeling of unsatisfaction, which is what makes a lifestyle of endless fucking contrary to happiness.

On maslow's hierarchy of needs fucking is at the very bottom, you must have other passions which will make your life more fulfilling. This is why my opinion is to do what you love regardless if women come flocking or not. I know for a fact that I love studying and reading books and discussing knowledge with learned individuals. I could give a two hour lubed up hardcore ass fuck if the "tens" in the world consider that low status. Maybe hooking up with a different woman a night may satisfy the childhood wounds one may have suffered with initial female rejection (ala Roosh or the vast majority of PUA's and those inspiring to become one) but it sure as hell won't make life worth living.

My hope is you do what gives you meaning in life brotha (and if sex is your passion you should try and become a porn star).

Ish Gibbor

So, let's take a quick recap of our argument thus far, and see if I can point out our differences:

- I say money is very important to having success with women.
- You say, fuck money, fuck women, do what you love.
- I say, doing what you love to bring happiness is impossible. There are other considerations to human happiness.
- You say, women are over rated, money is over rated, these things will just consume your time and life and leave you empty.

My response: doing what you love will not make you happy.


When Lester's inner beta comes out at the end of American Beauty, you see a man who realizes sex isn't the most important thing in life, whereas I see a man who is still confused about what he wants.

Isn't that the entire point of American Beauty? Lester is a guy who suffers his midlife crisis when he finds no "fulfillment" with his current life, and begins to explore the world outside of normal societal duties. He quits his job, dabbles in drugs, fantasizes about new women, works out... and then is met with an untimely death? He doesn't do shit with his life. At one point he throws away everything he has just to try and figure out something else to do, and rather than show if he's successful for living outside of the mold, he's murdered (to avoid the difficulty of making a real ending).

BUT AT LEAST HE DIES HAPPY! RIGHT?!?!

Talk about a shitty movie where there is nothing to learn... no lesson to observe... and just the same old crap that gets posted all over new-agey self-help books everywhere: "Find what you want, be who you are, do what makes you happy..." It's just popular trash culture, it has no long term value and will be forgotten within 50 years. The lesson to take from American Beauty is reflected in the meaninglessness of it's plot:

"Were not sure what this movie is about, but if you like making movies as much as we do, you should too! (if it makes you happy?)" Confused, just like Lester.

Let me shake things up for you, Ish.

There is no such thing as living your life "in search" of happiness. I agree with Nicomachean Ethics: Happiness comes from virtue, a sum of collected good habits of living between extremes of character. Happiness is not simply doing what you love. If all you do is what you love, you will be unhappy. Happiness, in large part, comes from things external to who you are.
Easy examples include food, sleep, and sex. (there's also morals... but lets not go there!) I find game as the vehicle to satisfy one of my base needs. It's also a lot of fun. Would I make my entire life out of it? Of course not. Not many would. But it's something I will perfect over my life, like I do with my lifting.

Aristotle teaches us that a degenerated form of democracy (from the Politics), where everyone "does what they want", will always end in social failure, because it breeds vice. This runs counter to what you recommend, Ish. But I don't blame you for believing what you do. You are simply part of the zeitgeist of excessive individualism that is destroying Western Civ right now, just like everyone else who posts on this site (myself included... but I would love to see things change).


I know a man... has two kids, a dog, a wife (when he married her, she was only a 6 out of 10, but has now aged into a 4.5), worked his whole life like a slave... runs daily, does a few marathons... built up his own wealth from decades of work... his greatest moments of hedonism come from cookouts with his family provided by his wife while swimming in his pool... works in china about 1/2 of the year away from his family with a bunch of morons who do not speak English, or barely speak it... he's mid 40's...

The happiest man I've ever met. Both him and his wife still love each other. And he didn't become this way by "doing what he loves".

When my father divorced a few years ago, I had no place to live, but this man was kind enough to spot me for 6 months in his house, with his wife and kids (who were my age, so it was a lot of fun). I got to see how he lived, and how his family life worked.

By any standard of the roissysphere, or PUA sphere, he's just a wee little beta male living a meager life... with almost no game... but by Aristotle's account, he's virtuous. His happiness reflected this. That's what counts, and that's what he has. While Mystery was going to therapy for suicide, this man was teaching his sons about history and politics.


Money (survival) and sex are very important to us as required by our biology. It makes perfect sense to try and accumulate as much of these two goods as possible, even if it means to sacrifice "doing what you love". The fact that sex is on the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy shows the extreme importance of sex, because the bottom of the pyramid has greater priority over the top. Money and sex may not be sufficient for the good life, but they are necessary.

Therefore, doing what you love will not make you happy.

The eerie thing is I have read essays written by serial killers who were far more intellectually convincing and cogent in how they justified their killings.

The fact that you viewed "American Beauty" as another movie where there is "nothing to learn" (even though it won best picture at the Oscars),concluded that the bottom of the pyramid is really the most valued part of a pyramid, aligned yourself with an Aristotelian code of ethics and hit the period (I'm assuming emphatically) after stating the idea that external necessities are what makes humans happy (which would justify your desire to fuck every girl that turns you on), then I see you have it all figured out for yourself. If you have concluded that doing what you love doesn't make you happy then more power to you! I refuse to go down the rabbit hole with you on this one.I can see sex has become something idolatrous for you and I can recognize an intractable position when I see one.


The mind is a powerful thing I must say.

Ish Gibbor

P.S. You should read Crime and Punishment.
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#89

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-17-2010 07:22 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

Quote: (08-16-2010 07:38 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Great post. Most true. Also, trying to bang endless hot girls when your 50-60 will not only be frustrating in terms of emotional fulfillment, but probably much less fruitful. You gotta build an actual life while your young enough to do so.

I look at game as a means to better enable me to eventually build a life with the woman of my choice. Even now, sex without love is boring to me after a very short while.

Excellent summary. All I can add that with years is that the older I become, the less incentive I have to actually pursue women, even though my wife is ok with that. But we're past the stage you mention, as we've been together now over 10 years, have a bunch of kids and maintain pretty open relationship so it may not be a typical situation.

That was the key for me.

Almost every PUA/womanizer I've met was not happy. They had tons of girls, tons of sex but their bucket was filled with holes. Everyone one of them was busting their tails, constantly running having to fill up a "bucket" with some metaphorical spigot. The guys I look up too who have a wife and kids (or are even single) all wake up loved and can give love easily, have friends and are treated well by their friends, are respected by their peers, can support themselves and their families and are generally happy. They wake up everyday in a strong reality that does not require any searching while PUA's, hedonists, materialist, etc are still looking, hunting, doing drugs, buying, drinking, etc.

All of the people with the vices I've mentioned who I have met are very smart and tell me long collegiate level verbal essays all the time on how they can logically justify their misery. I have no intention of waddling my way through nihilism, existential emptiness and spiritual malnutrition any more then is required. I know I have enough strength to overcome the land of the lotus eaters (and the mind that created them).

Ish Gibbor
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#90

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-18-2010 05:05 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I've deleted a lot of this HGH copy and paste stuff. Post a new thread if that's what you want to talk about it.

Seriously, what's the deal with all this steroid bullshit? Anyways, I think that if you want to inject drugs to get all crazy yoked out and have your balls shrink, that's your business. I just don't like the idea because it's not natural, some people just aren;t meant to get that huge, and ultimately it is not attractive to most women. Go to the gym, eat healthy, drink protein, at the end of the day if you don't look like Brock Lesnar, than tough shit.
[Image: discussionclosed.gif]
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#91

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Gotta have fun while you're young. I'll worry about making money once I hit my 30s.
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#92

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

listen.. HGH doesnt shrink your gonads.. its not male testoterone.. stop venting plain ignorance out loud...if you keep quiet people might not notice....

I know Im a biochemist and have done my homework, its not working that axis. The biggest side with Hgh is diabetes as anyone with the sligtest homework from wiki can tell..

But thats a really awfull side..but chances are probably low and depending on alot of factors, which I wont bore you with since your probably not really interested. [Image: smile.gif]

I say exercise, eat clean food, stay off alcohol and smoking and sleep well
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#93

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Despite this thread having gone horribly off topic, there is a lot of great philsosphy-of-life stuff here by Ishgibbor, Samseau and others. Absent of the HGH debate, nice posts.
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#94

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-31-2010 02:41 PM)Quasi Wrote:  

listen.. HGH doesnt shrink your gonads.. its not male testoterone.. stop venting plain ignorance out loud...if you keep quiet people might not notice....

I know Im a biochemist and have done my homework, its not working that axis. The biggest side with Hgh is diabetes as anyone with the sligtest homework from wiki can tell..

But thats a really awfull side..but chances are probably low and depending on alot of factors, which I wont bore you with since your probably not really interested. [Image: smile.gif]

I say exercise, eat clean food, stay off alcohol and smoking and sleep well

If that's the case, than can the other risk factors that are present in Diabetes (or sub-clinical insulin dysregulation) also be present with HGH consumption, even if a Diabetes diagnoses never officially manifests? Examples could include stroke and cancer. Since HGH is specifically an anabolic growth promoter(forgive my ignorance of clinical terminology), would it not hypothetically have the same growth effect on cancer cells?
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#95

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (08-18-2010 09:41 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

The guys I look up too who have a wife and kids (or are even single) all wake up loved and can give love easily, have friends and are treated well by their friends, are respected by their peers, can support themselves and their families and are generally happy.

You can still do this and chase tail on the side. In fact, it's recommended that you have a real life outside of PUA, because that way you'll come from a stronger frame when talking to others (aka strong "inner game").

By the way, ditching everything just to pursue your "dream" isn't any more likely to achieve "wake up loved and can give love easily, have friends and are treated well by their friends, are respected by their peers, can support themselves and their families" because

your dream is risky, with a high chance of failure, and a high risk of straining your relationships with others,

whereas,

becoming a civil engineer is a safe way to build a family nest/world of fulfilling relationships.
Are you amused by the fact that someone who takes the safe way through life has the greatest chance of happiness?

My neighbor, from across the street, is two years older than me and just got engaged. Good kid, great athlete in high school. Plenty of pussy from 16 years onward. Goes to a decent college. Plenty of female attention in college. Graduates with civil engineering. Gets a decent job. Has had enough women by now to know what he wants in a wife. Gets married at 27. This man has:

wake up loved and can give love easily, have friends and are treated well by their friends, are respected by their peers, can support themselves and their families

He is a happy man, so you will never find men like him on this forum. He did not do "what makes him happy", he did what society expected him to do, and, as a result, lives a happy life.

And I know so many others just like him, none of whom followed your advice, Ish.

Quote:Quote:

All of the people with the vices I've mentioned who I have met are very smart and tell me long collegiate level verbal essays all the time on how they can logically justify their misery. I have no intention of waddling my way through nihilism, existential emptiness and spiritual malnutrition any more then is required. I know I have enough strength to overcome the land of the lotus eaters (and the mind that created them).

moral superiority is a sin

Contributor at Return of Kings.  I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can follow me on Gab.

Be sure to check out the easiest mining program around, FreedomXMR.
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#96

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (06-30-2010 11:58 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I know financial success and success with women are not mutually exclusive, and most often financially successful men do the best with women. But for hypothetical sake would you guys say that you'd take money over bitches?

Or maybe more specifically would you spend most of your 20's focused and consumed with making big $$, with limited success with women, but have 100's of thousands saved for your 30's, or would you be the guy that partied hard and got laid with 100's of women, but only has a few thousand to your name by the time you hit 30?

Just curious, if anyone cares to respond.

In my 20's? Bitches >>>>>>>>>>> Money.
In my 30's, Money>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bitches

I honestly don't see how you could not have both though.
If you're pulling bitches in your 20's, if you do it right, you're building a solid skill set that can make you a grip later on.

seen,
WIA
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#97

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (07-01-2010 03:05 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

4. You still can go out two nights a week (Fri/Sat) and getting laid regularly. Of course your success will be more limited, but you will catch up later. As my wife says, a 20 years old student who lives on the beach and makes living by selling his drawings sounds romantic. A 40 years old doing the same sounds like a miserable person.
I agree, when I first got into game (early 20's) I was living out in the suburbs (worst part too of Auckland) and working far far out of Auckland in the country side. Lots of time taken up spend traveling to and from, on top of the long hours and work (I was on call too). Any spare time I spent training, for Ironman.

Yet I still went out on the weekends, friday/saturday. And I quickly got to the level of fucking each time I went out, generally. (typically I'd pick up on friday, and then be too sleep deprived on saturday from the sex to be particularly effective in picking up again but I'd still go out again a second time to see what happens [Image: tongue.gif] )

So if I can do that under more or less the worst logistics (unless you're living on an all male oil rig hundred of kilometers out to sea?), then so can you.

Remember, there is compounding interest.... if you save up lots now in your 20's (and 30's?) then you can relax in your 30/40/50's knowing that you'll have a tidy nest egg built up for when you're 60.
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#98

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (10-20-2010 11:24 PM)Dman Wrote:  

Remember, there is compounding interest.... if you save up lots now in your 20's (and 30's?) then you can relax in your 30/40/50's knowing that you'll have a tidy nest egg built up for when you're 60.

Same with career. I've been working hard through my 20's, and now I receive 5-7 emails and 2-3 calls from recruiters every week, which is a lot if you consider my resume isn't posted anywhere and I'm not looking for a job. When I went to Thailand, I probed local employment market, and two companies I visited said they'd hire me with the 70K baht a month starting salary (and handling visas, work permits etc) so if I were single and wanted to live there, I could have moved in a breeze. It pays to have experience and the success record.
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#99

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Anybody tool can flash money and get a chick, but for how long. This is why we call it "game" or gaming, which is the art of being able to get the girl without too much effort. Not every rich guy has the prettiest girl, not even close in my books. I still see my share of guys driving nice cars (Lambo's, Porsches) on a Sat night in the city with there buddy in the passenger seat.

I fall into the category of travel nut, mediocre job and gym rat. Money is not that important to me because I know I can get a decent girl without it, money is important to me if I want to travel for a week in say Sweden.

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http://www.repstylez.com
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M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches?)

Quote: (11-15-2010 10:50 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Anybody tool can flash money and get a chick, but for how long.

It depends - if the chick is from Asia, it may last very long - as long as you're supporting her family. But I agree that money alone won't bring you a good long-term chick.

Quote:Quote:

This is why we call it "game" or gaming, which is the art of being able to get the girl without too much effort.

The point here is "get", while for long-time "keep" is much more important. Are you willing and able to game the same chick for five years? Long-term relationship is essentially the place where one can relax, and do not need to play games anymore. My wife is someone who loves me the way I am, with all my shit, and I do not need to play her or pretend I'm someone who I'm really not. You may use game to display high value, but in long time your real value will come out anyway. Even gigolos who mastered this skill usually have the limits, and the amount of stress they go through is insane. Game has little value in the long-term relationship.

Quote:Quote:

Not every rich guy has the prettiest girl, not even close in my books.

This is kinda meaningless statement. Everyone has different opinion what "pretty" means, and your "hot chick" may actually be my ugly duck. For example, I consider Uma Thurman ugly - so ugly that I feel like I'm vomiting when I see her face - and one of my friends says she's the hottest girl he ever saw. Fortunately we all like different girls, who in turn like different men. It would be fucking awful if we all looked like Di Kaprio.

Another thing here is that looks are important when all you want is one-night stand or being fuck buddies. For long-term relationship looks are not that important - you'll have much better quality of life with a plain chick who has great personality and is compatible with you than with a high-maintenance stunner ten.

Quote:Quote:

I still see my share of guys driving nice cars (Lambo's, Porsches) on a Sat night in the city with there buddy in the passenger seat.

What is your point? I travel often, and typically spend around two months abroad - and I travel alone. Being married doesn't mean one needs to drag your wife with you all the time.
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