[thegmanifesto]

(04-19-2013 05:00 PM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

You know, I had this debate with a friend of mine who said Zidane was overhyped. I said next time you watch him play, just watch him,and only him. Forget about the other players or the ball. Watch everything he does. See how often he makes a mistake as opposed to doing the correct thing -- positoning himself, connecting the pass, dribbling, defense, winning balls.

He did it. He watched. He had to admit it -- Zidane played almost flawlessly.

Do the same thing. Watch an entire game just focusing on him. You will be amazed.

[Alpha Hunter Zero]

Zidane is a fucking boss just for that headbutt he gave in the 2006 World Cup to that guy from Italy's team.

[Matt3B]

Zidane is my favourite player of all time alongside the real Ronaldo.

I was obviously taking the piss before regarding Suarez, even though he is the best player in England.

[Alpha Hunter Zero]

In regards to whether Ronaldo or Beckham is the better player I truly dont give a fuck.....but my money's on Christiano Ronaldo They both are blessed with good looks, millions of dollars per year, hot wives and internationally recognized athletic ability. They both are alphas in their own way and both have women's panties flying off just at the thought of being within their proximity. While I enjoy a good debate let's not forget that these two represent what the majority of us here at RVF are trying to achieve: a comfortable life, masculine attitude, and access to gorgeous women.

[Nudge]

Zidane is also my fav of all time alongside Thierry Henry. I remember the game France V Brazil in the 2006 world cup where Zizou completely dominated one of the most hyped Brazillian midfields of all time (Ronaldinho, Kaka etc) on his own at the age of 35. Amazing.

The thing about Messi though is his shooting accuracy is unbelievable. He very, very rarely misses and if he does its always close or a save. You never see him blazing one into the stands or anything.

[The Fantasist]

(04-20-2013 07:29 AM)Nudge Wrote:  

The thing about Messi though is his shooting accuracy is unbelievable. He very, very rarely misses and if he does its always close or a save. You never see him blazing one into the stands or anything.

Except when playing Chelsea!

[Wreckingball]

Beckham is a marketing machine. He clearly lifts. His face is in everything men related, from "low-level" to "high-end".
When he was transfered to Real Madrid, they sold so many shirts in Asia, that they almost paid for his transfer!

I used to be a hater of this guy and Ronaldo, but they are 500% red pill:
Work hard, play hard, get results. There is no shortcut to sucess.
Ronaldo destroyed everything where he played. Portugal (even though he was really really young), England and Spain. And will continue to do so until he gets severly injured, because he just will not stop.


BTW: Talking about argentinian football players:



>>>>


G, what's your take on Messi's suit?

[Matt3B]

(04-20-2013 07:29 AM)Nudge Wrote:  

Zidane is also my fav of all time alongside Thierry Henry. I remember the game France V Brazil in the 2006 world cup where Zizou completely dominated one of the most hyped Brazillian midfields of all time (Ronaldinho, Kaka etc) on his own at the age of 35. Amazing.

The thing about Messi though is his shooting accuracy is unbelievable. He very, very rarely misses and if he does its always close or a save. You never see him blazing one into the stands or anything.

Zidane was majestic and Henry probably the coolest player on the ball I've ever seen. I used to love Henry even though I'm a Liverpool fan, it was a real pleasure watching him play. Even against us he would rip us apart but I couldn't help but applaud him at times.

Kaka at his prime for Milan was nice to watch too, he glided across the pitch.

[The Fantasist]

(04-20-2013 09:38 AM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

Beckham is a marketing machine. He clearly lifts. His face is in everything men related, from "low-level" to "high-end".

Beckham was a UK media dream: played for the most illustrious club, good looking, married a spice girl and uncontreversial. Fleet Street must have creamed when he appeared. Add to that a great marketing team and the path to riches was secured. His story even had the redemption story after the sending off versus Argentina in 1998. The problem is that he lacked the world class talent to back up the media narrative of the all England hero. That is why his team promotes him more as a family man and ambassador than as an actual footballer.

Ultimately he will be remembered more for off the field stuff rather than his football.

[A CLizzy]

(04-19-2013 08:22 PM)MattC Wrote:  

I was obviously taking the piss before regarding Suarez, even though he is the best player in England.

LoL I hope you are kidding again? He bites people on the pitch bro?
you can't even call him a player let alone the best in England.

HE IS AN ANIMAL AND BELONGS IN A ZOO.

IN FACT, HE IS A CANNIBAL. THIS IS THE 2ND TIME HE'S TRIED TO EAT HUMAN FLESH.

THIS IS FOOTBALL NOT BOXING. IF HE FEELS HE CAN BOX THAN HE SHOULD STEP IN THE RING. ONE HAY-MAKER AND HE'LL BE ABLE TASTE HIS OWN BLOOD, SURELY THAT WILL SATISFY HIS CRAVINGS.

[WanderingSoul]

Debating which soccer player is most alpha and red pill is like debating which retard will win the special olympics. You silly Europeans and your girlie sports....

[Volk]

I prefer other sports too, but football (Soccer) is anything but girly. You should give it a try to run and play with the same intensity as they do for the whole 90 minutes, it really puts things into perspective.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Girly is a sport where there is a time out every minute (all US sports).
Girly is a sport where the equipment and gear they wear weighs as mush as the guy lol (NFL).
Girly is a sport where you get a minute rest for every 10 seconds of bursting efforts. (All US Sports).
Girly is a sport where fat if not outright obese guys mix it with fit guys (Baseball).

The world's game, the beautiful game, football ( and I do not mean the american game where you throw an oval ball and where feets are only used for running and maybe 2-3 kicks in the entire game), is a game where:
- there are no time out other than at half time, where, there
- the action is non stop, end to end over 100 metres and during 90+ minutes.
- you must be not only uber fit and fast but also extremely skilled and intelligent to play.

The only American, sorry meant North American as it's a Canadian game where I'd consider true alpha game is ice hockey. It's a tough, extremely physical game where skills are very high and needed.

IMO, the ultimate alpha team sport is Rugby. No protection at all, they still keep on playing while bleeding! Where a guy gets injured, the play continues! And once you get subbed, you can't return to the game! 80 minutes of action packed, end to end stuff with not a single moment to take it easy save at half time and even then it's not always the case! Take any NFL guy and put him in a rugby league in Europe or in any of the big southern hemisphere leagues (South Africa, Aussie and NZ) and they will get destroyed and torn to pieces!

Rio, give rugby a try and I can promise you that "girly" will be the last word on your mind once you start playing it. I'd venture as far as saying that even MMA will feel like a walk in the park after you've played rugby...

(04-21-2013 10:12 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Debating which soccer player is most alpha and red pill is like debating which retard will win the special olympics. You silly Europeans and your girlie sports....

[Vacancier Permanent]

Suarez is a guy that makes it very easy to both love him and hate him. Let me explain, the guy has mad genius, he's among the top 5 if not top 3 strikers in the world. Few strikers in the world are as big of a thorn into defences than him. However, he infuriates me at times with the easy chances he misses. And I'm far from being a Liverpool fan!

Now, he also has a dark side to him, if not an outright cheater. Remember the 2010 WC 1/4 final against Ghana where he hands ball the ball on purpose on his line to prevent Ghana from scoring the winning goal? Yeah he got sent off for that and the Ghanean missed the penalty and Uruguay ended up going through to the 1/2 final. Or how about his racial slurs at Patrice Evra? And as a Frenchy, I hate with my guts that mofo of Evra for being one of the orchestrators of the fiasco during the 2010 WC.

Apparently, he had already bitten another player during his time in Holland with PSV. And also in the fall of 2011...so it's not like the fist time he goes overboard. It's really a shame as he is a tremendous player, in the run for the PFA Player of the Year award. The way I see it, the old dinosaurs at the FA will have a field day against him and ban him for the remainder of the season, which will be a pity as he is great to watch even for a neutral. The Scousers will sorely miss him.

Speaking of the PFA awards which will be given shortly, to me, it has to be Bale. This guy has been simply PHENOMENAL this year! Each time he has the ball, you know he's going to do something with it and the defenders and entire opposing team starts to panick. His frightening pace, his deadly left foot and great vision make him IMO, the best player in the EPL and by a mile. He is currently among the top 3 players in the world. The only one who could compete with the likes of Cristiano and Messi. He simply has to leave the Spurs and go onto a major club. Would be fun watching him linking it with Cristiano at Real! Wow, what a duo that would form! Deadly combo!

Another player that I love watching and who has been almost walking on water at times these past 2 years has been RVP. It was a shame that he wasn't even nominated among the final 3 for the Fifa Player of the year award. As much as I love Iniesta, RVP had to be in the final 3 with Cristiano and Messi. RVP and Bale have been the 2 best players this season in the EPL and by far!

What would be the ultimate and crual irony is if next weekend, Man U receives the EPL trophy and RVP receives the PFA player of the year award at the Emirates against Arsenal! lol Oh the pain of the Gunners! As a Gunner myself, I'd feel it!

[rudebwoy]

VP - RVP won't win the PFA award or shouldn't because he has been quite over the last few months. I agree what you said about Suarez, don't like the man but on the field he is simply a genius. There is talk in the British press that he deserves the award and of course there is another argument about Bale being a contender.
Funny how you mention Iniesta, this guy is really underrated alongside his partner in crime Xavi.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Rudeboy,
Agreed that RVP has been on a slow run recently, however, IMO, the main reason United are going to clinch the title so comfortably tomorrow is due to his goals in crucial times. RVP is a money time type of player, where he will save your ass when the team is under pressure. He is a big game player and in the big moments, he delivers. He isn't like say a Zlatan, who while he may score a shitload of goals, most of them will be against small teams and when the team plays a crucial match or when the team really needs him as the big name/top player to step up, he shits his pants as he has been doing throughout his career. RVP on the other hand, in the big and crucial moments, he delivers! How many times has he saved United's ass this season by scoring crucial if not vital goals in the 90+ minute? Despite his recent dip in form, he still is the main guy to go for United when they need a result. Even more so than Rooney. In fact, If I'm SAF, I'd sell Rooney in the summer for a princely sum (say in the 70-80 Mil pounds) to those clowns of PSG and invest half that money to get either of Suarez or Falcao or Cavani as I'd want a true killer up front with RVP.

Regarding Iniesta, don't get me wrong! I'm a mad admirer of him! To me, he is THE most important player in Barcelona's team as he is the brain of the team. Xavi is another player I'm a great admirer of! His passing, vision are 2nd to none. Him and Iniesta are the heart and brain of Barca! You want to beat Barca? Shut down Iniesta and Xavi and cut the line of balls going from Xavi & Iniesta to Messi. Like Milan did in the first leg of their 1/4 final or Chelsea last year in the 1/2 final or Inter 3 years ago in the 1/2 final. To beat Barca, don't focus on Messi. Simply prevent Iniesta & Xavi from getting the ball to Messi and you're half way there.

Despite being a huge fan of Iniesta, I feel that last year, RVP deserved to be in the final 3 more than Andres. That doesn't take anything away from Iniesta as he is by far the best and most complete midfielder in the world. However, in the year 2012, RVP's record was simply out of this world! And I'd go as far as saying that his record was as impressive if not more impressive than Cristiano and Messi's goal fest since the Spanish Liga is nowhere near as hard defensively to score than say the EPL. This is why you see 2 great players score ridiculous amounts of goals there each year.
While CR7 and Messi score over 50 goals a season in la Liga, I don't see them scoring more than 30-35 in the EPL and no more than 25-30 in the Serie A in Italy, which is the toughest league to play and score in the world, but that's another story.

[Teedub]

(04-21-2013 10:12 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

Debating which soccer player is most alpha and red pill is like debating which retard will win the special olympics. You silly Europeans and Africans, Asians, Central and South Americans and your girlie (games that require skill over brute strength) sports....

Fixed it for you!

[bojangles]

(04-19-2013 03:55 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

I don't believe there's just 1 best player. I am saying that these 2 are overhyped, not that they're bad players. There are a lot of great players in the Bundesliga or EPL who are just as good and sometimes even better.
Point 1

Because La Liga is a 2 team league. He won't break any of these records in the Serie A or EPL. Point 2

Messi can only wish to be as good as Maradona. If Messi wins trophy's on his own like Maradona did with Napoli and Argentina, then we can talk.
Point 3

I hate these football debates, stats and what not are used and there's a lot of bias thrown around as football and tribalism go hand in hand, and the influence of players in your childhood or younger years are more nostalgic and appealing. However you post is easy to dissect and throw apart.

Point 1 - who? and name them? If there are supposedly so many

Point 2 - You say he won't break any of these records, yet he has no problems scoring against the best teams in the world (in the champions league) who are the best teams in those leagues you describe. If the 'EPL' (so fucking cringeworthy) is so good, why are players like Mata, Cazorla and Silva (all of whom Barcelona and Real Madrid did not bother to sign) the best players in the league? If they were as good as Messi would the top 2 in Spain not have signed them? Even more so that Barcelona and Real Madrid consistently sign the best 'EPL' players - Ronaldo, Fabregas, Henry etc and still these guys are not as good as the little Argie fucker.

Point 3 - Maradona did not win trophies on his own, it's a myth. That Argentine team was very good and was one of the best squads in that tournament, it had multiple Libertadores winners and a couple of World Cup Winners in the squad too from 8 years earlier.
The Napoli team? bought by De Laurentis and spent the most money in Europe at the time, even more than Silvio Berlusconi's Milan. Maradona (a world record transfer from Barcelona) scored 113 goals in 259 games over 5 years at Napoli, Lionel Messi has scored that number in his last 90 games.

Messi is only 25, he still has plenty of time to seal himself as the number one player.

Also winning a World Cup with Argentina should not really matter that much. Back in when Maradona and Pele and co competed for the World Cup globalisation was not prevalent in Football, most countries only allowed teams to field 3 foreigners at most, so international competition was the most competitive, but now? The Champions League is the toughest competition out there, money, teams full of players from all over the globe. A 1970's Brazil, 74 Holland, 82 Brazil, 86 Argentina etc would find it hard to get anywhere near the final.

Like I said earlier in this post football+childhood+tribalism play a fact in what you think. Looking at it from outside the box?

Quote:

I used to think Maradona was the best player I've seen, but I now think it's Messi. You sort of put your finger on why. We don't associate brilliance with consistency. Brilliance is meant to be mercurial and therefore some of the shine goes if a particular action - even a mazy run that takes out 4 opponents - is repeated over and over again. And of course Messi is consistent in that sense. He consistently beats men, he consistently controls the ball under ridiculous pressure, he consistently scores. He hardly ever loses the ball and when he does he makes a habit of getting it back straight away. Now maybe some of the fun is extinguished because of this permanent state of brilliance. You don't get the 'will he/won't he?' that you might have got with Maradona and Pele. Because with Messi you know 'he will'.

As football fans we all tend towards what amazed us when we were younger and less cynical. And, certainly, Pele and Maradona will always be my sporting idols. But I've got to say - and have said it many times to more bloody-minded mates - the greatest footballer who ever lived is Lionel Messi.

Until some other genius comes along.....

If you any of you watch F1, Messi would be Schumacher, so consistently brilliant he 'bores' you. Maradona would be Senna, glorious and nostalgic brilliance combined with his faults.

Personally I'll take Diego Maradona's word for it, he said in 2010 that the little guy was better than him.

[Teedub]

Bojangles, that post was fantastic and your knowledge is superb! Where do you think Ronaldo and Messi will be in say 8 years? Ronaldo will be 36 and Messi 33. Do you think Ronaldo will still be playing, and if so, in what capacity, as he'll obviously have to alter his game like Giggs when his pace disappears. That said, he is super fit so I think his peak (he's currently in it) will last until perhaps 33. Messi I am less sure about, I suspect he'll be playing in Argentina as he's mentioned a few times. Do you think he'll have to alter the way he plays too?

[WanderingSoul]

I think soccer troll is almost easier to play than race troll. Im actually interested in soccer, but we get almost no exposure to it in the us so very few people follow it. Except during the world cup where people use it as an excuse to get wasted at 5am.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Quote:

Point 1 - who? and name them? If there are supposedly so many

Watch tomorrow's match!

Quote:

You say he won't break any of these records, yet he has no problems scoring against the best teams in the world (in the champions league) who are the best teams in those leagues you describe.

Scoring is not the same as breaking records. Messi didn't score 1 single goal against a defensively organized team like Chelsea or Inter.

Quote:

If the 'EPL' (so fucking cringeworthy) is so good, why are players like Mata, Cazorla and Silva (all of whom Barcelona and Real Madrid did not bother to sign) the best players in the league? If they were as good as Messi would the top 2 in Spain not have signed them? Even more so that Barcelona and Real Madrid consistently sign the best 'EPL' players - Ronaldo, Fabregas, Henry etc and still these guys are not as good as the little Argie fucker.

The football world isn't all about Real Madrid and Barcelona. The PL as a league is better than La Liga, it's not all about players. At least Ronaldo has succeeded in another team before Real Madrid unlike Messi.

[Travelsick]

Suarez is a twat. Sometimes I wish Ben Thatcher was still kicking ...stuff.

[Teedub]

Every10GivesMeA10, I can't believe you think there are better players than Ronaldo and Messi playing right now. Players like Gomez, Robben, Goetze, Reus etc are REALLY GOOD, but none of them will go down as the greatest to play the game. If Ron and Messi continue as they are going, it is a simple fact that they will be number 1 and 2 on the all time great list. World Cup or not. They do it in the Champions League on a year in, year out basis and both have achieved more at club level already than the original Ronaldo for example. They're not even 30 yet. Brazilian Ronaldo was my favourite player, and as I mentioned earlier, if he hadn't been so unlucky with injuries, it's frightening how good he could have been. His season at Barca was magnificent. That said, look at the rate at which the new Ronaldo and Messi score at for the past 4 seasons - they both eclipse him.

Talking of the big man, he said this yesterday:

Quote:

I would say Messi [is the world's best player] because he is a little bit better than Cristiano. But I would also add that Cristiano has had unbelievably bad luck. He would have been the best player in the world in many other eras, but he has coincided with another of the game's greats.

[bojangles]

(04-22-2013 05:09 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

Bojangles, that post was fantastic and your knowledge is superb! Where do you think Ronaldo and Messi will be in say 8 years? Ronaldo will be 36 and Messi 33. Do you think Ronaldo will still be playing, and if so, in what capacity, as he'll obviously have to alter his game like Giggs when his pace disappears. That said, he is super fit so I think his peak (he's currently in it) will last until perhaps 33. Messi I am less sure about, I suspect he'll be playing in Argentina as he's mentioned a few times. Do you think he'll have to alter the way he plays too?

It's the same in all sports, I can't envisage where these guys would be in 8 years. I was a hardcore football hipster until I took the red pill, all that knowledge and videos watched is something you don't just lose. Ronaldo will still be playing, physically as an athlete he is one of the greatest ever in any sport. His speed (pace over a distance), acceleration combined with his jump, eye-to-ball co-ordination (was all calculated in a documentary 2 years ago) and strength is phenomenal, I think he'll still be in the same role he is now.

Messi? I think he'll play in Argentina after the age of 30, but by then he'll be the greatest ever no doubt. In my mind he already is and I've seen Zidane's and Ronaldo's (who I thought was the best) and latter part of Maradona's career (thanks to my Dad's investment in satellite tech). He won't have to alter how he play's at all, he is Barcelona, people love to deride him by saying he's nothing without Iniesta and Xavi, but this guy was just a young football player 2/3 years ago, its 2013 now, he's been consistently at the top for 4 years and he's only 25 now. He's getting better, he's their top assist, top goalscorer and as seen against PSG even without him on the pitch they still look disjointed. Put him in any team any league and they would win the league.

There's been this long standing argument that on a 'wet Monday night' in Stoke, Lionel Messi would fall to bits against the bruising and physical giants of the Stoke team and in the rain too. This is an epic fail of logic, firstly Stoke maybe bruisers, but they have nothing on Athletic Bilbao and the cynicism of some of the smaller sides in spain (Just ask Diego Maradona about the Butcher of Bilbao). Secondly it rains and snows more on the northern coast of Spain than it does in Stoke, so these so called conditions Lionel Messi has already faced within his own league.

The little argie has shit like this to contend with, week in, week out, are Stoke worse?



In the 1940s people said Giuseppe Meazza was the greatest, in the 50s Stanley Matthews, in the 60s Di Stefano, in the 70s Pele, in the 80s Maradona, in the 90s Ronaldo, in the 00s Zidane. Training improves, balls change, footwear changes, they wear shit to make them more streamlined, better nutrition etc. In 10s Messi is the greatest but in 3 years we may see the next Messi or Meazza or Zidane come through.

[bojangles]

(04-22-2013 06:36 AM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

Watch tomorrow's match!

Ah so no-one then.

Quote:

Scoring is not the same as breaking records. Messi didn't score 1 single goal against a defensively organized team like Chelsea or Inter.

Goals win games, I'm not sure if you understand that part of football, but the players that score are the most prized for a reason. So using an example of 2 games over a period from 2008-2013 out of the 265 games played by Messi in that period in which he has scored 268 goals proves your point. Yes if you are a feminist those 2 games are absolute proof of his shiteness.

Quote:

The football world isn't all about Real Madrid and Barcelona. The PL as a league is better than La Liga, it's not all about players. At least Ronaldo has succeeded in another team before Real Madrid unlike Messi.

Wait I don't understand your logic here, where do the players play if it's not the league? If the league isn't about the players, what is about?
Is it about Athletic Bilbao a team in the relegation zone in La Liga beating Manchester United (english champions at the time last season) both home and away. Is it about Valencia travelling to wet and windy Stoke and coming away with an easy win? Silva, Mata, Cazorla all came from teams that weren't the best but became the best players in their leagues. Hell Barcelona didn't even need Yaya Toure and he's billionaire playboys Man City's top player. A lot of people are blinded by the actual technical ability on show in England, compared to that in Spain, Germany and France, they are streets ahead. You don't need a Dortmund team put together by about £20m schooling a Manchester City side funded to the tune of £500m telling you that

I bet you would deny Michael Jordan is a great basketball player as during his first stint he only played for Chicago Bulls and that James Bond is a shit spy as he's only ever worked for MI5, he should at least test his skills like those double agents.