[Divorco]

Mystery posted some realistic perspective in 1998.

I go out 3 or 4 times a week ... for 4 hour sessions (10pm to 2am usually) ... approach about 3 girls an hour... get on average 4 phone #s a night,
...
6 to 8 get togethers with women in a week … with 3 girls who want to fuck me per week and I … then can fuck one new girl a week … .
...
Over the course of the last 6 years, Ive fucked 56 girls (not all FUCKED, but sexual cum shoots so I call them fucking)
Statistics of the Hunt

IIRC, Neil "Style" Strauss wrote in The Game about doing workshops with Mystery three years later before he ever got laid with Mystery Method.

Their stats are consistent with Bang:

Assuming you’re a post-college male with disposable income who goes out on Fridays and Saturdays, on average you’ll get around 4–8 phone numbers a month ... two will lead to dates ..., one may eventually lead to sex, which means you’ll get 3–8 notches in a year.

[MikeCF]

If guys would spend their time building a career, lifting, and spent some of that cash on protein powder, the numbers would be far higher.

That's why I've always advocated lifestyle > game.

If you're in good shape, have cash, have friends with hook-ups, you're gonna laugh at 3-8 new pulls a year.

Plus, when the women are gone the lifestyle will still be there.

[j r]

It's hard to assess these numbers without knowing quality and the nature of the relationship. Having 56 one-to-two night stands with ugly to average women over six years is nothing to be especially proud of.

On the other hand, rotating through 9 new dimes every year for six years is pretty righteous.

[bodmon]

i know a guy who ran with mystery in 2002-2003. he says that mystery was "far and away the best" and "amazing" but would often self-sabotage or distract himself from the goal of getting laid - his narcissistic, showy nature would lead him to overgame or get stuck in the entertainer role.

[soup]

(04-08-2013 05:32 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

If guys would spend their time building a career, lifting, and spent some of that cash on protein powder, the numbers would be far higher.

That's why I've always advocated lifestyle > game.

If you're in good shape, have cash, have friends with hook-ups, you're gonna laugh at 3-8 new pulls a year.

Plus, when the women are gone the lifestyle will still be there.

Maybe. It depends on what your scene is.

[Vitriol]

(04-08-2013 05:28 PM)Divorco Wrote:  

Mystery posted some realistic perspective in 1998.

I go out 3 or 4 times a week ... for 4 hour sessions (10pm to 2am usually) ... approach about 3 girls an hour... get on average 4 phone #s a night,
...
6 to 8 get togethers with women in a week … with 3 girls who want to fuck me per week and I … then can fuck one new girl a week … .
...
Over the course of the last 6 years, Ive fucked 56 girls (not all FUCKED, but sexual cum shoots so I call them fucking)
Statistics of the Hunt

There's 72 months in 6 years. That's about 0.78 bangs per month. Not really too impressive for someone who portrays himself as a guru of seduction. Spending 16 hours a week running game for that kind of conversion rate seems depressing. Means he was spending probably around 70 hours gaming for each bang...

(04-08-2013 05:32 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

If guys would spend their time building a career, lifting, and spent some of that cash on protein powder, the numbers would be far higher.

That's why I've always advocated lifestyle > game.

If you're in good shape, have cash, have friends with hook-ups, you're gonna laugh at 3-8 new pulls a year.

Plus, when the women are gone the lifestyle will still be there.

Yeah, if you're conversion rate is comparable to what Mystery said he was getting in those days, you'd be better off taking some of those 70 hours a month away from game and invest the time into yourself. Down the line you will have more money which equals more pussy.

[Hades]

This is consistent from what I've heard.

Mystery is basically one of the biggest pussy slayers alive who almost never pushes for the bang like a proper Roosher would. The guy has been known to walk into PUA conventions and walk out with two 8+ girls he charmed right off the arms of the men they were currently fucking. Of course there's almost no follow up here but these women had no problem looking like whores right in front of their boyfriends, so game recognized.

If he used a little strategic force or whatever (mystery method is not nearly as clear about securing the bang as "Bang" is), he could have probably gotten closer to 50-60 fresh lays per year. The Mystery Method (as far as I can tell from reading it) is also 100% about being Cap'n Save a Ho and getting a girlfriend, since it calls one night stands "fool's mates".

[NY Digital]

math is off here. he said he had a new girl every week that'd be at least 40 each year... but his total count is 56.

lol.

[Pete]

And people paid him thousands? I bang 12+ new women every year. 10 would be my worst year.
Yet he was the best pua?

If I had nothing else to do and had the free time to spend 12 hours every week pursuing women I'd expect to do better than 10 women per year... (56/6=9.33) ohh and he said he did not bang 100% of those 56.

I've banged 4 *new* women I've met in 2013. And I work full time. I don't structure my life around meeting women.

Those are pretty mediocre results...

[Matt3B]

(04-08-2013 06:20 PM)Pete Wrote:  

And people paid him thousands? I bang 12+ new women every year. 10 would be my worst year.
Yet he was the best pua?

If I had nothing else to do and had the free time to spend 12 hours every week pursuing women I'd expect to do better than 10 women per year... (56/6=9.33) ohh and he said he did not bang 100% of those 56.

I've banged 4 *new* women I've met in 2013. And I work full time. I don't structure my life around meeting women.

Those are pretty mediocre results...

Agree with this. If I had the time to game as much as he did every week, I'd be getting better numbers than that and I'm sure some of the other guys off here would be too.

[Ovid]

Hades Wrote:

is also 100% about being Cap'n Save a Ho and getting a girlfriend, since it calls one night stands "fool's mates".

Technically, a fool's mate wasn't just a one night stand, IIRC, but a one night stand/pickup which involved a girl so horny that she would have fucked any guy, the PUA simply being in the right place at the right time to capitalize.

I suppose this does happen sometimes (like in XXL's bouncer/nightclub thread where he talks about the drunk chick making out with and getting in a taxi with the homeless dude, simply because she was drunk and horny and wanted to spite her boyfriend.) Usually, however, even a drunk and horny girl requires some game (even if it's purely passive, in terms of the player's confidence, eye contact, demeanor, etc.) in order to get her to give it up with him specifically.

[Giovonny]

I think Mystery is sort of asexual. He doesn't care about sex.

For him, it was all about just making the girl want to fuck him, he was satisfied with that.

He was more focused on making money through his teaching and tv show.

If he wanted to, he could have banged alot more. He didn't even push that hard to f-close!

Everyone has a different level of sexual need and desire.

Some people are more excited about money and/or their craft. I think Mystery was most excited about the financial opportunities rather then the sexual opportunities.

Just sayin..

I don't think he cared about pussy. He actually just enjoyed the research and experimentation of sexual dynamics.

[Hotwheels]

I'm no Mystery Man, but wasn't '98 pretty early in his career? If one would call it that.

Supposedly he started from pretty much nothing, so he had a lot of room to grow.

[speakeasy]

(04-08-2013 05:28 PM)Divorco Wrote:  

Mystery posted some realistic perspective in 1998.

I go out 3 or 4 times a week ... for 4 hour sessions (10pm to 2am usually) ... approach about 3 girls an hour... get on average 4 phone #s a night,
...
6 to 8 get togethers with women in a week … with 3 girls who want to fuck me per week and I … then can fuck one new girl a week … .
...
Over the course of the last 6 years, Ive fucked 56 girls (not all FUCKED, but sexual cum shoots so I call them fucking)
Statistics of the Hunt

IIRC, Neil "Style" Strauss wrote in The Game about doing workshops with Mystery three years later before he ever got laid with Mystery Method.

Their stats are consistent with Bang:

Assuming you’re a post-college male with disposable income who goes out on Fridays and Saturdays, on average you’ll get around 4–8 phone numbers a month ... two will lead to dates ..., one may eventually lead to sex, which means you’ll get 3–8 notches in a year.

If all this is accurate, the amount of time you'll spend is just crazy. If you go out 4hrs 4x a week, that's 16hrs a week only collecting numbers. Now if you meet up with 6 women in a week, assume you are spending about 4hrs per girl(they say it takes on average 7hrs of face-time to bang a girl, maybe if you're really good you can shorten that), including your time getting ready, driving out to meet her, time you spend with her, if she comes back to your place that could be a few hours. That could 4x6 = 24hrs just on dating. Now add that to your prospecting time of 16 and you might get around 40hrs. Now consider that for most people, you sleep 8hrs, work 8hrs and have 8hrs free hours to yourself. That's 56 "free" hours you have a week, 40 of which you are dedicating to chasing pussy. And that's assuming you are being efficient in your hunt. That only leaves you with 16 hours a week to get anything else in your life done. I realize these numbers are a bit fuzzy and every guy will have different results, but just roughly plugging in his time spent, pick up would basically have to be your full-time job to the point that you can make a living off it. Anyone else simply can't dedicate that much time to this and have any kind of life outside of chasing skirts or get anything else done.

And we also aren't factoring in costs. You go out for drinks, you have to pay. If you have two drinks each plus tip that's around $36(assuming $8 drink plus dollar tip). Do that with 6 get togethers in a week and that's $864 a month. That's just drinks only. If you're talking about going out to clubs and paying cover of minimum $20 each or taking chics out to a restaurant sometimes, it only goes up from there. You could end up spending well over a grand a month just on dating. In the best case scenario of one new notch a week, that notch could be costing you over $250 plus the opportunity cost of all the hours spent on dating that could've been used to make you money and further your career. I can see why some dudes just say fuck it and P4P. Will save you a ton of time and money in the long run.

[thegmanifesto]

(04-08-2013 07:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

And we also aren't factoring in costs. You go out for drinks, you have to pay. If you have two drinks each plus tip that's around $36(assuming $8 drink plus dollar tip). Do that with 6 get togethers in a week and that's $864 a month. That's just drinks only. If you're talking about going out to clubs and paying cover of minimum $20 each or taking chics out to a restaurant sometimes, it only goes up from there. You could end up spending well over a grand a month just on dating. In the best case scenario of one new notch a week, that notch could be costing you over $250 plus the opportunity cost of all the hours spent on dating that could've been used to make you money and further your career. I can see why some dudes just say fuck it and P4P. Will save you a ton of time and money in the long run.

This is true (and extremely conservative numbers).

But you need to keep in mind, some of us actually enjoy going out.

----

Regarding Mysterys numbers, yes they are not very impressive.

There are probably 10 members in every top Fraternity on every college campus in America that double his stats.

[soup]

I thought the whole thing with Mystery was that he used game to go from being a nerd to having consistent freedom with women. That, and he I think he did a great job of formalizing the way all this works.

People knock on that guy a lot. But, he's not in the game anymore. From what I get, he's not even trying to sell you his game plan like back in the day.

Let's just recgonize that the guy did a lot to raise game awareness, which is pretty red-pill, and he probably helped a lot of guys see a way out of dating darkness. Did with me.

[babababalot]

i give him respect. so many guys who have mad game only got started due to this guy.

[RawGod]

I respect Mystery. He was a pioneer, and he successfully changed his life and helped a lot of people in the process. As a ladies' man he's probably not in the top tier. So what?

[Giovonny]

(04-08-2013 07:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

If all this is accurate, the amount of time you'll spend is just crazy. If you go out 4hrs 4x a week, that's 16hrs a week only collecting numbers. Now if you meet up with 6 women in a week, assume you are spending about 4hrs per girl(they say it takes on average 7hrs of face-time to bang a girl, maybe if you're really good you can shorten that), including your time getting ready, driving out to meet her, time you spend with her, if she comes back to your place that could be a few hours. That could 4x6 = 24hrs just on dating. Now add that to your prospecting time of 16 and you might get around 40hrs. Now consider that for most people, you sleep 8hrs, work 8hrs and have 8hrs free hours to yourself. That's 56 "free" hours you have a week, 40 of which you are dedicating to chasing pussy. And that's assuming you are being efficient in your hunt. That only leaves you with 16 hours a week to get anything else in your life done. I realize these numbers are a bit fuzzy and every guy will have different results, but just roughly plugging in his time spent, pick up would basically have to be your full-time job to the point that you can make a living off it. Anyone else simply can't dedicate that much time to this and have any kind of life outside of chasing skirts or get anything else done.

And we also aren't factoring in costs. You go out for drinks, you have to pay. If you have two drinks each plus tip that's around $36(assuming $8 drink plus dollar tip). Do that with 6 get togethers in a week and that's $864 a month. That's just drinks only. If you're talking about going out to clubs and paying cover of minimum $20 each or taking chics out to a restaurant sometimes, it only goes up from there. You could end up spending well over a grand a month just on dating. In the best case scenario of one new notch a week, that notch could be costing you over $250 plus the opportunity cost of all the hours spent on dating that could've been used to make you money and further your career. I can see why some dudes just say fuck it and P4P. Will save you a ton of time and money in the long run.

That is alot of time-work-money.

But. Mystery made millions from this effort.

For the average guy, this is just not an efficient strategy.

(04-08-2013 07:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I can see why some dudes just say fuck it and P4P. Will save you a ton of time and money in the long run.

It depends on the price of the prostitute.

And, how strong your game is..

One guy can get a hooker for $200, another guy can laid for the price of 4 drinks and 3 hours of his time.

Some guys are good at getting free pussy. Some guys have no choice but to pay.

Everyone has to find a strategy that works for them.

I'm saving p4p for my old age.

[germanico]

(04-08-2013 07:26 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Regarding Mysterys numbers, yes they are not very impressive.

There are probably 10 members in every top Fraternity on every college campus in America that double his stats.

However, they are not bad for a 40 something geek who hasnt changed his hot topic clothes for the last 10 years.

[thegmanifesto]

I don't want to sound like I am hating, because I don't care about this guy.

But what is all this "pioneer" talk?

People didn't pick up girls before Mystery?

I get that people relate to the whole "dork turned ladies man" thing, and yeah, it is a great story, but to say this guy is a "pioneer" is ridiculous.

[the_conductor]

So? Those were his numbers when he was just starting out in 1998. What were Roosh's numbers in 2001?

[Samseau]

(04-08-2013 08:35 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I don't want to sound like I am hating, because I don't care about this guy.

But what is all this "pioneer" talk?

People didn't pick up girls before Mystery?

I get that people relate to the whole "dork turned ladies man" thing, and yeah, it is a great story, but to say this guy is a "pioneer" is ridiculous.

I'll defend Mystery.

Bodybuilders have a saying: "Don't go to the guy who is naturally muscular... go to the guy who started off scrawny and had to work for his gains."

The reason being that the harder someone has to work for something, the better they understand it.

So Mystery was basically a sexual loser, but he worked hard to learn game and get better results. He also developed a system to streamline his pickup attempts, and made it relatively easy to understand.

And that's why the Mystery method was (still is) one of the greatest pickup pamphlets ever written: Mystery worked like a dog to learn everything he did.

Here are some terms that mystery developed or made popular:

- Attraction building, attract stage
- Comfort building, comfort stage
- Shit tests
- Opening a set (i.e. group of girls)
- Preselection
- Wingman rules
- Pivot rules (i.e. female wing)
- Calibration (i.e. learning cultural norms, understanding different types of girls and playing them)
- Routines (we all use routines)
- Storytelling
- The idea of having a "progression" to the pickup
- LMR
- Freezeouts

To name a few. Without Mystery, I'm not sure Roosh would be as good at the game as he is today. Bang clearly takes from the Mystery method as the basic organizing force to his book (beginning, middle, end).

Mystery's influence is enormous and I laugh whenever guys talk trash about him. He's done more to help men than than any other self-help bullshit artist.

Finally, I agree that Mystery's stats for 6 years of nonstop gaming were weak, but, then again, that's because he was still developing a lot of what we call "game" today. He was operating in the dark, figuring things out on his own all by trial and error. If I had to go by trial and error I'd never get laid.

I'm sure the Mystery of 2002-2009 had triple the numbers he did in 1998.

[Nascimento]

I believe direct game is best.

This one buddy of mine who is much older than me (he is 30) goes out 4 nights a week. He does not approach everything in sight like an RSD fella would, he doesn't waste time trying to build attraction, comfort through routines like someone following the MM method would. He just stands in one spot and lightly grabs girls that walk by or are around him. His game is mostly non verbal, he builds tension like crazy off the bat and goes for a kiss within a few minutes. He's been doing this consistently for so long, he has it built subconsciously so that he picks up on the women who would be most receptive, so his success rate per approach (makeout, possible pull) is very high.

Last year, he had SNL's with 50 girls. Although most of them are of average attractiveness, this guy is cold. I love his game.

He's in the 99% percentile in terms of sexual partners for men, and he's gotten there just by going after what he wants, and letting his intentions be known. No routines, magic tricks, DHV stories bullshit.

Also important to note he has his life figured out. Does well financially and is very active. Girls are secondary.

[Giovonny]

Guys were doing it way before Mystery.

I can't think of their names but I know there were some books that came out in the 70s..

Didn't Giacomo Casanova write a book in the 1500 or 1600s?

Who did Mystery learn from?