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On harem collapse: Which of Roissy's 16 commandments was forgotten?

[NewGamer]

(02-08-2013 03:34 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(02-07-2013 04:52 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

what happens to players once they hit 40+.

not being the 45 y.o. guy at the end of the bar.

(02-07-2013 08:41 PM)bacan Wrote:  

I wonder how many of us will end up as 40 year old losers...

So, what is a player to do after 40???

Get married? Settle down? Move to D.R. or SEA?

I expect to be banging women in their 20's when I am 40.

My dad fucked a 17yo when he was 44. I plan on doing the same.

I'm gonna start a blog for girls with daddy issues!

Get married but never settle down!

[JJ Roberts]

(02-07-2013 01:41 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

For me it's not the rejection, the work, the STDs, or the pregnancy scares. It's harem collapse.

I used to have this problem but I don't anymore.

[JJ Roberts]

(02-07-2013 02:29 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Knowing that no matter how cool her personality is, how madly in love with me she appears to be, or how much I like her, that I can never fully trust or emotionally invest in a woman again.

You can trust women.

You can trust women to behave like women.

[CJ]

When you start banging a girl and her mom works with your mom, and your family is able to confirm what a slut you are. Oh well, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

I also agree with not trusting women, but if you lay the dick to her REALLY good, she's not going to want to stray too far. The other mentality to take into battle of course, is to just not really care what happens with her. In fact, most girls I bang now, I hope find another guy at some point, so making a clean break will be easier.

[soup]

Having to clean-up condoms that are all over after sex and getting new ones is annoying.

[Neo]

(02-07-2013 05:44 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

The fact that you will never truly be pleased. You will always go for another notch, flag, position, experience etc
Even if you have a really good thing with someone you keep asking yourself if you can do better, and since you really can't scale these things the answer will always be yes.
It is somewhat paradoxically a lonely existence.

It can really eat on you.

This.

Becoming a player is like joining a gang or the mafia, you're never getting out.

Once that mindset becomes ingrained("Yeah this girl is great, but I can do better.") it's like a never ending search to get more.

Sometimes I feel the dissatisfaction, but I don't know how to stop it.

[pitt]

One of the worst parts of being a player is taking a bad ass chick (9 in your book) to your room, you think you are going to fuck her and suddenly she is not putting out, after some minutes she tells you that she needs to leave. She never comes back to see you again and stops picking up your phone calls. You ask yourself wtf you did wrong that you couldnt close.

That shit pisses me off. I hate when a bitch comes to my place and i dont complete the mission. It hardly ever happens but when it happens it PISSES me off.

[makaveli]

The worst thing about being a player is one's own stupidity, rationalizations, and laziness..

During winther, when it is dark and cold, and i experience a low libido, it's like i lose a part of my identity. I hate the feeling saturday night, when I had planned to roll out solo, and suddenly, laziness kicks in. then I rationalize not to go out, because its cold, and i tell myself that all the beautiful girls are hibernating, or that noone gets laid anyway this time of year. Then i convince myself that i will do day game the day after, but i never do. And then i watch porn and masturbate, which lowers the sex drive and sense of urgency even further.

Repeating one's own mistakes of bad game, and not being able to recognize it due to stupidity, or not thinking strategically. Like texting the day after, or being to cuddling and beta after sex.. I know 2 real players, and they also run into the traps that they themselves will warn you about.

There is always fog and unpredictability, but when laziness or depression kicks in during winther, and there is a dry spell, the worst thing one can do is to stay home and not approach. For me at least, getting regular pussy requires a lot of time and effort, and whenever that horniness and hunger is not there, it gets frustrating to be a player, because I logically know that i should go out and practice.

I begin to doubt myself, who I am, and where i wanna go, whenever i am not trying to get laid. Being a player is a part of who i am now.. but whenever i fall into a trap of not trying to get laid, it feels like a part of my identity is lost.

[Giovonny]

(02-07-2013 06:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I think the worst part of being a player is knowing that you'll never be able to have it all.

I like to think that players CAN have it all.

We can have a loving relationship with a woman if we want to. We can have children if we want to. We can move to another country if we want to. We can bang young hotties if we want to. We can do anything we want!

Its our player knowledge and training that allows us to take advantage of these options and craft a lifestyle that suits us best.

Isn't that what powerful men have done throughout history? Have a loving family but also bang hot pussy on the side!

I'm not recommending marriage, I'm just saying that if you want love, you can have it, you might have to go to another country to get it, but, its there if we want it.

We can focus our efforts on being a full time playboy, go out every night, approach like crazy, move to New York City, get buffed, dress well, etc.

We can go to easy places like SEA, South America, Dominican Republic, Philippines, etc.

We can integrate ourselves into other cultures like Roosh has done in Europe. We can literally identify the type of woman we want and then relocate to where that type of woman is in abundance.

We can get married. We can have kids.

We can do it all. If we want to.

(02-07-2013 04:32 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Gio and Mechanico-no one taught me these things about women, I think there was some inherent desire to have a deep, romantic relationship with a woman.

I don't entirely disagree with this. I think we ARE born with a certain need to connect with others.

That said, I will offer a different perspective just for the sake of healthy debate.

(02-07-2013 04:32 PM) Wrote:  

that's not something that needs to be learned from a parent.

I sort of disagree here. I think we do learn loving, bonding, connecting, and socializing from our parents.

We are not born as loving people. We have to learn how to love.

Look at kids who do not grow up in a loving environment. They often grow up with issues in giving and receiving love. Kids who get abused by their parents often grow up to be abusers.

We learn from our parents/environment/upbringing.

Loving and connecting with women is not something we are automatically born with.

(02-07-2013 04:32 PM) Wrote:  

no one taught me these things about women,

I don't know? I think someone had to teach you..?

You had to be influenced (taught) by your family. Just watching and observing them as a child certainly shaped your perspective. The culture influences us in many ways. All the movies, tv shows, videos, songs, etc.

School is another influence. Peers are another influence. Growing up around blue pill families and social groups is a big influence.

My opinion -- The blue pill media and culture taught you what "romance" and "love" is.

Look at North Korea:

"They will spend their entire lives being conditioned as beasts of burden, so brainwashed that they will turn in their own parents for trying to escape and feel they did the right thing while watching their mother get hung."

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-18628.html

Kids do not learn to love and value their mother. Parent-child relationships are different. "Love" is different. They are raised different. They are taught different.

My point -- Love, compassion, empathy, etc. are things that we have to teach children. We are not automatically born with these things

----

Playboys have to create their own playboy-friendly mind-set. The culture/media will often brainwash you with blue pill beliefs. Your parents will often want you to settle down. Friends and peers will mostly do what the society expects them to do.

Playboys think different. You have to brainwash yourself so no one else does!

[EasyMoney]

(02-07-2013 06:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I think the worst part of being a player is knowing that you'll never be able to have it all.

If you want hot girls, the likelihood of having a fufilling relationship is low.

But if you want a fulfilling relationship, the likelihood of having a hot girl is low.

So true. This realization was hard for me to swallow.

(02-09-2013 12:34 PM)JJ Roberts Wrote:  

(02-07-2013 01:41 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

For me it's not the rejection, the work, the STDs, or the pregnancy scares. It's harem collapse.

I used to have this problem but I don't anymore.

Could you explain why

[Giovonny]

(02-11-2013 01:20 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

(02-07-2013 06:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I think the worst part of being a player is knowing that you'll never be able to have it all.

If you want hot girls, the likelihood of having a fufilling relationship is low.

But if you want a fulfilling relationship, the likelihood of having a hot girl is low.

So true. This realization was hard for me to swallow.

What was hard for you to swallow???

The realization of what???

Love, sex, hot women, healthy relationships, sluts.

Which of these things do you think is off limits to you?

[Matt3B]

Getting sick.

[EasyMoney]

(02-11-2013 01:26 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 01:20 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

(02-07-2013 06:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

I think the worst part of being a player is knowing that you'll never be able to have it all.

If you want hot girls, the likelihood of having a fufilling relationship is low.

But if you want a fulfilling relationship, the likelihood of having a hot girl is low.

So true. This realization was hard for me to swallow.

What was hard for you to swallow???

The realization of what???

Love, sex, hot women, healthy relationships, sluts.

Which of these things do you think is off limits to you?

Are you saying you disagree with Sameau's point?

It was hard to swallow the idea that I was going to have to reinvent my personality in order to fuck attractive girls, knowing full well that the sex is about I would ever get from it. The shattering of my concept of how women love and how men love (http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/1...n-in-love/) was hard to swallow. I would love for a super attractive woman (in my eyes at least) to want to support and love me without having to put on a whole game. But that's just not the way the world works. It was hard to swallow.


It was hard for me to swallow the reality that you can't expect a high value woman who can indulge her hypergamy to the fullest extent to be loyal to you unless you are that rare combination of naturally high value man who is game aware and knows how to use it.

Once I realized that I had a lot of work to do in terms of making myself a better mating prospect, It was hard to swallow. I had bought into the Hollywood lie bullshit of being entitled to a quality woman because I perceived myself as a quality man (who would treat them right) - the trouble is that I wasn't really. That was hard to swallow.

They're only capable of being loyal to you when you're completely dominant with them and higher in sexual market value than them. That was hard to swallow.

The whole red pill thinking is hard to swallow, that's why most men can't or won't. You have to completely detach yourself from your ego, and that's hard. But I'm glad I came around to this path, its the best thing that ever happened to me.

[Giovonny]

(02-11-2013 02:35 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

Are you saying you disagree?

Yes. I believe a player can have it all.

Now that you have taken the red pill, don't you agree with me?

You can have it all.

What is out there in this world that is not available to you?

P.S. I did read your post, thank you for explaining to me what was hard to for you to swallow, that was interesting. However, just because you became a player doesn't mean that you can not have love AND hot sex with younger women.

[Stoic]

(02-07-2013 02:29 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Knowing that no matter how cool her personality is, how madly in love with me she appears to be, or how much I like her, that I can never fully trust or emotionally invest in a woman again.

Having repeatedly witnessed firsthand the incredible facility women have for deceiving their boyfriends while cheating with me, I know that I could easily be deceived as well.

The trust you give a woman will be the rope she hangs you with.

I would have acknowledged this post in this thread: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-2239.html but too much is going down over there.

I'm struggling with this belief too. It's unsettling. My question is: how does one deal with this belief? Do we accept it, or reject it?

Three thoughts I fight with when I start thinking like scorpion above:

1. Can you actually be easily deceived and cheated on if you're an alpha who has game? My experience is that girls don't stray if your game is tight. Hypergamy, yes, but in general, girls aren't predisposed to polygamy. If you're sufficiently alpha, a woman wouldn't dare take the risk of losing you.

2. Hate to use the feminist catchphrase, but not all women are like that. Not all women would cheat on their boyfriends or husbands for an even more alpha cock. We can't forget that our opinions are heavily shaped by Western women who let their hypergamous instincts run wild and would fuck a celebrity if her man wasn't around. But not all women would fuck that celebrity. Easy come, easy go.

or 3. All women have the capacity to be sluts. We shouldn't be surprised when they do cheat. We should accept their nature. Just as we don't put trust in a child, we shouldn't put trust in a woman. The fact that we emotionally invest and seek comfort in a woman is misplaced and we haven't reached full red-pill-maturity if we do.

I believe in the first two, even though the girls I'm with force me to operate on the third. I haven't found a woman who has proven to be the kind of girl that allows me to believe shes not like the rest of them. My rule of thumb is: If she's fucked 5 or more guys, I don't emotionally invest in her. If any of those guys was outside a LTR, I not only don't trust her, she's not LTR material. If one guy got her for free, why do I have to pay? The more averse a woman is to having sex and the more she guards her vagina, the less likely she is to cheat.

[EasyMoney]

(02-11-2013 02:51 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 02:35 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

Are you saying you disagree?

Yes. I believe a player can have it all.

Now that you have taken the red pill, don't you agree with me?

You can have it all.

What is out there in this world that is not available to you?

P.S. I did read your post, thank you for explaining to me what was hard to for you to swallow, that was interesting. However, just because you became a player doesn't mean that you can not have love AND hot sex with younger women.

I get where you're coming from, but I don't completely agree with you. I do think that your attitude is the right attitude though. I love the optimism that you espouse in your posts; its motivational. But, I look at game as a platonic form. It's an ideal that we aspire to, but it ultimately doesn't always work. (http://www.rooshv.com/game-wont-always-work). The concepts and core lessons of game are spot on, but the other reality is that some of us have a first down on the 5th yard line when we come to game but others haven't even put their cleats on yet. Some guys are square jawed muscular charismatic cowboys and some are overweight spergs. To say that the sperg can have it all like the cowboy because of game is to set someone up for a big disappointment.

Learning some game can heal the sick but it can't wake the dead.

I don't think I can have it all until I actually become a high value, high status man. Men reach their peak market value in their late 30s, early 40s. I'm 25. I love the fact that I have a solid 15 years to game, gain experience with women, and then maximize my chances at landing a sexually as well as emotionally satisfying relationship with a younger woman. But the irony is if I do, that just validating the core principles of game.

As a 25 year old new to game, I'm thrilled to now actually start to "get it" with women. But even despite being a pretty decent looking guy, who knows how to dress, has some value to bring to the table - I know that hypergamy is my enemy and there are lots of men who are better choices than me. Ignoring reality won't do me any favors. (Now when dealing with women i wanna fuck i tell this part of my brain to shut the fuck up and remind myself that i'm the man).

All the guys who get it "all" are usually famous, powerful, good looking, in other words guys who got a head start because they're naturally alpha or just really fucking lucky in some regard.

Rolo's point about "genuine desire" is what i'm getting at. (http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/0...dynamic/). Genuine desire for a man from a hot woman is something that will be out of reach for most men, even some who learn game. Unrestrained hypergamy is a sickness for which game is symptom minimizer, but not a vaccine.

[vancitygame]

(02-07-2013 02:16 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

The hardest part for me is handling the emotional roller coaster. Is this temporary, is it something that you just become resistant to over time?

hello there sir,

Well i am 22 1/4 now
started the game around 18/19 when i was you're age.
You seem to have a similiar mentality as me when i was 19
Yes, over time you do get more resistant.
What made me more stronger was when i ways in a 1.5 year relationship with an older chick, i cheated on her various amounts of times. Dealing with that and the "side girls" had drastically increased my resistance.
The more girls the more you will gain brother its just a time factor,

Play safe.

[Thatdude]

had multiple girls (alright it was only 2) for the past few weeks for the first time. officially went to shit today. gotta start allllllll over again. its a wake up call though, i was getting too damn comfortable. time to start pounding the pavement again.

[Krauser]

The worst part for me lately is how difficult it is to find good friends. Pre-game I had lots in common with my friends in terms of age, background, interests, world-view, day to day pattern. Everything was so simple. Now I can't share their world because they are married off with ageing ghastly women, spending all week at work and all weekend at Ikea or visiting the in-laws. It's like I escaped from the gulag, I won't go back.

The people you meet in Game are often weird. Lots of them are dickheads. Others are broken. There's fucked up community values. So you can enjoy the common interests but can't trust them the way you do with your blue-pill pillar-of-community friends.

Making friends who are dependable AND have game / like the life is hard. When you find one, it's even rarer and more important than pulling a 10 into your harem. But then people drift apart because Game makes you independent and to follow your dreams... which might be to another country... so the gang loses a member.

[soup]

(02-14-2013 11:32 AM)Krauser Wrote:  

The worst part for me lately is how difficult it is to find good friends. Pre-game I had lots in common with my friends in terms of age, background, interests, world-view, day to day pattern. Everything was so simple. Now I can't share their world because they are married off with ageing ghastly women, spending all week at work and all weekend at Ikea or visiting the in-laws. It's like I escaped from the gulag, I won't go back.

The people you meet in Game are often weird. Lots of them are dickheads. Others are broken. There's fucked up community values. So you can enjoy the common interests but can't trust them the way you do with your blue-pill pillar-of-community friends.

Making friends who are dependable AND have game / like the life is hard. When you find one, it's even rarer and more important than pulling a 10 into your harem. But then people drift apart because Game makes you independent and to follow your dreams... which might be to another country... so the gang loses a member.

Agreed. I trust my player friend, but it's like having pet pitbull; you know he's on your side, but you also know what he's capable of. At least I know my beta friends wouldn't be able to pull off anything behind my back. I think me and my player friend became buddies because we both hit up the same venues and realized it was mutually beneficial to work together and would be a stupid war if we didn't.

[Samseau]

(02-14-2013 11:32 AM)Krauser Wrote:  

The worst part for me lately is how difficult it is to find good friends. Pre-game I had lots in common with my friends in terms of age, background, interests, world-view, day to day pattern. Everything was so simple. Now I can't share their world because they are married off with ageing ghastly women, spending all week at work and all weekend at Ikea or visiting the in-laws. It's like I escaped from the gulag, I won't go back.

The people you meet in Game are often weird. Lots of them are dickheads. Others are broken. There's fucked up community values. So you can enjoy the common interests but can't trust them the way you do with your blue-pill pillar-of-community friends.

Making friends who are dependable AND have game / like the life is hard. When you find one, it's even rarer and more important than pulling a 10 into your harem. But then people drift apart because Game makes you independent and to follow your dreams... which might be to another country... so the gang loses a member.

I think the internet is helping to alleviate a lot of these problems. I can spend time with my beta friends through online communication, and really none of them want my lifestyle but they don't condemn me either. It's a happy compromise and I still hang with them when I get the chance.

[gamepadawan]

(02-08-2013 10:52 PM)NewGamer Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 03:34 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(02-07-2013 04:52 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

what happens to players once they hit 40+.

not being the 45 y.o. guy at the end of the bar.

(02-07-2013 08:41 PM)bacan Wrote:  

I wonder how many of us will end up as 40 year old losers...

So, what is a player to do after 40???

Get married? Settle down? Move to D.R. or SEA?

I expect to be banging women in their 20's when I am 40.

My dad fucked a 17yo when he was 44. I plan on doing the same.

I'm gonna start a blog for girls with daddy issues!

Get married but never settle down!

can't you just move on to women in their late 20's and 30's when you're 40?

[booshala]

This might sound lame but the worst part of the game for me is having to invariably lose a lot of friendships because of it. I only have one friend now that is somewhat understanding of the changes I've made in the past few years, and even he's only about 50% on board. The rest of my close friends think I've really lost it.

I guess in that sense, this forum serves to create a sense of camaraderie which to me, helps in a small way in dealing with that loneliness. It is easier when you're inside your third girl in a week thinking to yourself, "Goddamn, why wasn't I doing this before?" but after sex, 95% of attractive women reveal themselves to be boring, soulless automatons. I guess that's when I really start to miss my old friends.

[Giovonny]

(02-11-2013 04:32 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

I get where you're coming from, but I don't completely agree with you.

EasyMoney,

Thanks for the detailed and insightful response.

I'm inspired to go through your post and offer a few thoughts:

(02-11-2013 04:32 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

I look at game as a platonic form. It's an ideal that we aspire to, but it ultimately doesn't always work. The concepts and core lessons of game are spot on, but the other reality is that some of us have a first down on the 5th yard line when we come to game but others haven't even put their cleats on yet. Some guys are square jawed muscular charismatic cowboys and some are overweight spergs. To say that the sperg can have it all like the cowboy because of game is to set someone up for a big disappointment.

Let me tell story..

I once met a guy off this forum, I will not name names, he was shorter then me, not as good looking as me, skinnier then me, didn't dress as well as me, didn't have as good of hygiene as I did, etc, etc. His game was not great. The dude was like a 4 or 5. I am more like 6 or 7.

We got to talking. He was rich. I think he inherited alot of real estate. He didn't have to work. He just traveled around the world banging women. I was jealous of him!

I had better game but he had a better LIFE!!!

YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE GAME!!! Any of us can go to Russia or EE/FSU and if we have money, we can pull beautiful young girls.

Roosh said in Russia they have beautiful young girls with much older, rich businessmen, etc.

Money and power might be better weapons then game in terms of getting laid!

My point: Even guys without game can have it all. They can go to Colombia, Brazil, Thailand, Philippines, D.R., Russia, China etc, etc. They will have the sexual adventures of a rock star. More women then they can handle. And strong game is not even necessary.

Roosh says beta game works in EE.

It's not who has the best game.. IT'S WHO HAS THE BEST STRATEGY!

(02-11-2013 04:32 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

I don't think I can have it all until I actually become a high value, high status man.

Duhh!!

(02-11-2013 04:32 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

I'm 25. I love the fact that I have a solid 15 years to game, gain experience with women, and then maximize my chances at landing a sexually as well as emotionally satisfying relationship with a younger woman.

I would start a rock band and get into acting.

(02-11-2013 04:32 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

But the irony is if I do, that just validating the core principles of game.

I don't see irony. I see the beauty of mother nature at work.

(02-11-2013 04:32 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

I know that hypergamy is my enemy

Hypergamy is also your friend. Hypergamy is why game works. Girls want powerful men, so we become powerful and learn how to project power. If it wasn't for hypergamy, hot chicks would be with nice guys just because they were nice..? Chicks want better looking kids, with more height, more muscles, more money, more status, etc. The more attractive we become, the more hypergamy works to helps us.

(02-11-2013 04:32 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

All the guys who get it "all" are usually famous, powerful, good looking, in other words guys who got a head start because they're naturally alpha or just really fucking lucky in some regard.

Yes, some guys are just lucky. It happens. People win the lottery.

(02-11-2013 04:32 PM)EasyMoney Wrote:  

Genuine desire for a man from a hot woman is something that will be out of reach for most men

In America, absolutely.

In Colombia, Brazil, Thailand, Philippines, D.R., Ukraine, FSU, Russia, China, Carribean, Africa, Mid-East, Central America -- if you have value and wealth -- I think some hot woman will have a genuine desire for you.

A man with value and wealth can have it all.

A man with value, wealth, game, looks, status, power -- Can certainly have it all.

(In theory)

(Life is funny and has a way of keeping us humble. Shit happens. We have to be careful. I don't know if I will "get it all" but I know damn sure I will fight to the death for good food, good water, good sleep, good young pussy, freedom, sports, music, art, game, friends, family, creativity, expression) (If I can enjoy these things, I might say, "I have it all")

(I don't think its easy, but, I think its doable)