[I'mWaitingForTheMan]

(09-09-2012 08:22 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

I was just browsing some local events and saw these 'singles' groups and started thinking...

Is it just me, or do girls 25 and under never call themselves single? The whole idea that they are incomplete or lacking a man seems quaint for them. Any girl who does have that 'old-fashioned' instinct is mocked. And a man who actively seeks a girlfriend is even worse. Besides, when she has a fuckbuddy she's neither single nor spoken for, and she'd rather not clarify for prying eyes.

This is exactly why you should ignore any talk of a boyfriend under from girls under 25. I literally pretend like I am deaf when they say things like this. If they are city girls they will always say they have a boyfriend or act like they do because of all the orbiters or possible fuck buddies. The higher these girls are on the attractiveness scale the more certain it is they will have someone they consider to be a "boyfriend" or are "seeing" at all times.

Especially at that age they are always looking to trade up for new and shinier things.

[redbeard]

When Tuthmosis calls Scorpion a newbie

[General Stalin]

Possibly his first post? He joined 9/12 and that post was made 9/3/12...

Anyway this thread is full of solid stuff. Good bump.

Now, what has changed in the past 3 years?

[frenchcorporation]

(11-24-2015 03:22 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Now, what has changed in the past 3 years?

Tinder

This thread was talking about the 2nd potentially being dead, and now, the 1st date is dead and buried

arranging to have sex on the first meet (netflix and chill) is the new normal.

[OregonToSoCal]

(11-24-2015 03:22 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Possibly his first post? He joined 9/12 and that post was made 9/3/12...

Anyway this thread is full of solid stuff. Good bump.

Now, what has changed in the past 3 years?

In my opinion this thread needs to be in the RVF top 10 hall of fame right up there with the first date bang recipe. Unfortunately in today's Tinder age it's relevance is even more front and center. I've bemoaned this in several threads during my time on the forum but with only a few very rare exceptions the only way I'm going to get a second date is either 1. We immediately 'clicked' on the first and I banged her with my absolute A game or 2. The first date was short with a predetermined end time (I'm meeting x at x time but let's meet up for an hour) and there was nothing physical (light touching only if that, and no kissing). These would be coffee or ice cream style dates on a weekend afternoon wedged between all of my other weekend activities.

If a first date does not fall squarely into either of the above two categories my chances of never seeing her again are at least 90% and that's probably being generous. Again, that's my experience and YMMV.

[Merenguero]

The guest appearance by Divorco in this thread before being banned was pretty good. I'm not really sure what he was talking about. Something about not waiting until the second or third date to go for the bang.

[Vincent Chase]

Out of the dozens I've banged in the UK and US in the last year I can only remember two that I only managed to have sex with after the first date. My last girlfriend I also banged on the first date. So yes it is dead and fucking buried in the big city game and outside of the niche more conservative dating circles. It is genuinely coming to the point of that if you don't bang a girl on the first date you should ask yourself why you're thinking of seeing her again. I used to go for the kiss on a first date, then I used to go for the fingering on the first date. Neither of those are worth anything in this age, the girl would still 90% flake if you don't bang her.

[griffinmill]

I remember a long time ago when you had a date with a girl and it went well you always got a second date, and things progressed from there. You maybe got the bang on date three. Hell, maybe date four. There was no rush because there was no "ghosting".

It involved two normal human beings who had a mutual attraction getting to know each other gradually.

Now with internet dating (and social media) things have changed. When I first got back into the dating arena a few years ago, I was having great first dates and then nothing after. So I thought: hm, these girls might just want to be fucked.

So I delivered. I escalated HARD. I fucked them in hotel rooms. I fucked them in parks. I fucked them in the back seat of my car. I made moves on them quickly. All of this makes me feel very seedy sometimes, but hey - it's do or die. I'd love to get to know them a little bit, but no can do.

What amazed me when I started to escalate hard was how fucking pliable these women were. It really opened my eyes to the so-called "secret society".

The problem is that sometimes I get a little rusty and fail to escalate, or I slip back into provider mode, or I feel a little nervous on the date, and I only end up kicking myself after.

[HighSpeed_LowDrag]

I've been game-conscious for about three years now. Late 2012 - late 2015.

In that time, out of 15 notches I've had precisely one second date. She ended up being my girlfriend for all of two months. I fucked it up, to be sure, but that's another story entirely. Everything else has been either SNLs or first-date lays. (Not to mention all the first dates that flaked ... or the numbers that never ended up pulling through.)

I actually don't like SNL sex. It's usually rushed, the both of you are usually at some level of impairment (at best), and I find that I have the most satisfying sex by far when you have some time to actually experience and learn what the both of you like doing between the sheets. But the dating market is so bad here in Canada that if you don't push for the sex as soon as possible every time, you'll get flaked on until you die.

If there is anything in the Western dating market that could represent an existential threat to game as we know it today, I figure it's flaking. And there's very little that any of us can do to arrest its growing hold over us all.

[Jesus Christ]

Apart from doing everything right, in terms of your value and truly loving women, the best strategy to fucking her again is indeed letting the woman escalate the situation. Men pursue before sex, women should pursue after sex. That is how it is meant to be, and if you reverse the roles and try to see her again after sex, your value goes down in her eyes.

I never push the girl away. But I don't bring her in either. If she escalates the interaction I accept it, but I never escalate it myself. That should be your rule for any mid- to long-term game. She should escalate the interaction after sex, never you. If she fails to do so, it won't work anyway.

Assume it is an online bang. I never take her to the bus stop or do anything that could be seen as low-value. I just take her to the door, and make her leave. Not in a nasty way, but just without putting in any extra effort that could imply beta traits. Never let her sleep over, or imply in any way that you will ever see her again. I would go as far as directly implying that you have zero intention of seeing her again, through a joke or whatever. Then immediately after her leaving, I block her on Whatsapp, and she sees my profile picture disappear. Then I unblock her about a week later, never unmatching her on Tinder. This is powerful, firstly because it hurts her ego. Women are biologically designed to be in real physical pain when thrown out of the tribe and left to fend for themselves. In primitive days it meant certain death. It makes her feel worthless no matter how much of an empowered slut she thinks she is. Secondly, your value goes up significantly, blocking her the second she leaves is something only a super-alpha would do. So now she is embittered and prideful, she sees you as a top-dog alpha, and you represent a challenge. When you unblock her on Whatsapp it is like a spark that is often taken as a green light for her to initiate contact, usually through the online dating site. Maybe 50% of the time she'll do it. The rest of the time you'll lose her and having asked for a date yourself wouldn't have helped anyway. It won't get you every girl, but will provide you with better rates than if you ask her for a second date post-bang. You don't ask for a date through text. She will ask to move to Whatsapp again, you imply you don't have her number but without actually saying you deleted it. She will come to that conclusion herself, let her hamster do the work for you. Then she is the one to offer a round two. You aloofly accept as if it doesn't mean much to you.

Now she feels like she has utterly won you over. She sees you as a super-alpha, and she is working her ass off to gain your approval. Not only did your chance of fucking her again go up significantly, but she will now lead the interaction emotionally and will likely develop into a fuckbuddy interaction that could go on for quite a long time. You have the power, as she is the one working.

I noticed last year that most of the times I managed to turn a major slut into a fuckbuddy, she was the one who was chasing me after I had tossed her aside with utter disrespect. Many of these girls ended up growing extremely attached to me and would do pretty much anything I asked of them.

[RatInTheWoods]

I'm in the 35-45 age bracket, milfs and such.

Three date Kate is the norm here, its only 1 in 10 will bang first date.

8 out 10 will be bang on the third.

[Jesus Christ]

(12-02-2015 05:31 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

I'm in the 35-45 age bracket, milfs and such.

Three date Kate is the norm here, its only 1 in 10 will bang first date.

8 out 10 will be bang on the third.

That's why I avoid MILFs. Too much work. If you can fuck a young hottie with little effort after an hour or two at the bar, why bother going on three dates with an older dominant washed-up cunt?

[B-Nut]

Jesus i thought after sex it was supposed to be easy ?

That was some major mindfucking just to get a girl to see you again after the first bang.

[Jesus Christ]

(12-02-2015 05:33 AM)B-Nut Wrote:  

Jesus i thought after sex it was supposed to be easy ?

That was some major mindfucking just to get a girl to see you again after the first bang.

Some girls in Western countries won't fuck you twice. It's a byproduct of sexual liberalism. Some noob players don't yet know this, so it's a fairly important realization.

I am not saying that you cannot turn a girl into a fuckbuddy just by asking her on a second date. I can indeed happen, with relative frequency. But if you want to optimize your retention rates further, what I wrote above is a way of doing it.

[worldtraveler3]

I have found that milfs tend to be either very easy, or a lot of work. They don't seem to be somewhere in the middle. Assuming you are their age too.

[UroboricForms]

(12-02-2015 05:37 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  

Some girls in Western countries won't fuck you twice. It's a byproduct of sexual liberalism. Some noob players don't yet know this, so it's a fairly important realization.

This is definitely something I've noticed and that has caused me mild to considerable frustration in my encounters. I wonder why that is? I'd be very interested to see some elaboration on this subject.

[Jesus Christ]

(12-02-2015 09:07 AM)UroboricForms Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 05:37 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  

Some girls in Western countries won't fuck you twice. It's a byproduct of sexual liberalism. Some noob players don't yet know this, so it's a fairly important realization.

This is definitely something I've noticed and that has caused me mild to considerable frustration in my encounters. I wonder why that is? I'd be very interested to see some elaboration on this subject.

I reference you here: thread-51908...pid1161477

[griffinmill]

(12-02-2015 04:16 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  

Then immediately after her leaving, I block her on Whatsapp, and she sees my profile picture disappear.

This is very good advice in principle, but doing something like this would make me a little nervous. Even if she had no intention of ever seeing you again, she's going to feel extremely hurt by this (which is, ultimately, the goal) but these kinds of feelings from a girl post-bang leave you in a very vulnerable position. She could then retroactively see the sexual act in a different light altogether, putting it subtly, and though you may eventually unblock her, the damage may already be done. But yes, your advice has some value, and it's a pretty good psychological tactic.

[Jesus Christ]

(12-02-2015 10:37 AM)griffinmill Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 04:16 AM)Jesus Christ Wrote:  

Then immediately after her leaving, I block her on Whatsapp, and she sees my profile picture disappear.

This is very good advice in principle, but doing something like this would make me a little nervous. Even if she had no intention of ever seeing you again, she's going to feel extremely hurt by this (which is, ultimately, the goal) but these kinds of feelings from a girl post-bang leave you in a very vulnerable position. She could then retroactively see the sexual act in a different light altogether, putting it subtly, and though you may eventually unblock her, the damage may already be done. But yes, your advice has some value, and it's a pretty good psychological tactic.

Your retention rates will be BETTER, not worse. So I don't know what you are talking about.

[R_Niko]

(09-02-2012 06:32 PM)j r Wrote:  

Getting a make out at the end of the night was almost always a sure sign that you'd get a second date, but it seems like those days are over. My question is this: when did it change? When did women stop giving men a second chance? This feels very new, as in the last two or three years.

What's been you guys' experience with getting to the second date without getting the bang?

Agree 100%. It's shocking how many girls want to bang on date 1, but don't want date 2, bang or no. My conclusion is women are so wrapped up in instant gratification and novelty that their mental frame re: relationships is limited to one date. So you pretty much have to go for it.

Also, since there's no more slut shaming in our culture, women no longer feel bad about themselves for banging right away, so guilt doesn't factor into her decision whether to see you again.

[OregonToSoCal]

(12-02-2015 11:12 AM)R_Niko Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 06:32 PM)j r Wrote:  

Getting a make out at the end of the night was almost always a sure sign that you'd get a second date, but it seems like those days are over. My question is this: when did it change? When did women stop giving men a second chance? This feels very new, as in the last two or three years.

What's been you guys' experience with getting to the second date without getting the bang?

Agree 100%. It's shocking how many girls want to bang on date 1, but don't want date 2, bang or no. My conclusion is women are so wrapped up in instant gratification and novelty that their mental frame re: relationships is limited to one date. So you pretty much have to go for it.

Also, since there's no more slut shaming in our culture, women no longer feel bad about themselves for banging right away, so guilt doesn't factor into her decision whether to see you again.

Do you think this applies across the board to women of all ages or just those of a certain generation (under 20, under 30 etc.)?

My personal experience has been the younger the women the quicker and easier they are to bang. Older women seem to be easier to get out on dates but more difficult to get into their panties whereas younger women are a pain in the ass to get to commit to a specific date and time, are much flakier BUT once you get them out it's mostly fuck up avoidance game.

[griffinmill]

(12-02-2015 12:19 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

My personal experience has been the younger the women the quicker and easier they are to bang. Older women seem to be easier to get out on dates but more difficult to get into their panties whereas younger women are a pain in the ass to get to commit to a specific date and time, are much flakier BUT once you get them out it's mostly fuck up avoidance game.

I'm 35 and have easily dated and banged women on date one in parks and in the back seat of my car. These women have ranged in age from 22 to 50. Conversely, I have also dropped the ball with women in this age bracket. The younger ones are still a little trickier to get out on account of them being nervous and socially awkward, so I'll agree with you there. They require too much of an investment in time trying to build comfort, only for them to flake at the 11th hour.

The women I almost consistently have the most difficult time with are women in their 30s. Though there are exceptions. Women in their 30s (especially those who have never been married or have no kids) are still on the shelf for a reason. They are simply unfuckable fucktards of the highest order.

What I will say is this: in just the past two years I have seen a marked increase in women unwilling to have a second date. It's become much, much, much worse. I can recall in 2013, my best recent year for game, there was nothing I could do wrong - I always got a second date.

Banged them on first? Second date.
Never escalated? Second date.
Took them past the "point of no-return", but never closed? Second date.

Chicks blowing up my phone after the first date. The past is a foreign country. I had a second date with a chick about a week ago, and it stood out as such an outlier due to recent experience that I though I was being punk'd. She was 25, if that makes any difference.

[OregonToSoCal]

(12-02-2015 01:21 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

(12-02-2015 12:19 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

My personal experience has been the younger the women the quicker and easier they are to bang. Older women seem to be easier to get out on dates but more difficult to get into their panties whereas younger women are a pain in the ass to get to commit to a specific date and time, are much flakier BUT once you get them out it's mostly fuck up avoidance game.

I'm 35 and have easily dated and banged women on date one in parks and in the back seat of my car. These women have ranged in age from 22 to 50. Conversely, I have also dropped the ball with women in this age bracket. The younger ones are still a little trickier to get out on account of them being nervous and socially awkward, so I'll agree with you there. They require too much of an investment in time trying to build comfort, only for them to flake at the 11th hour.

The women I almost consistently have the most difficult time with are women in their 30s. Though there are exceptions. Women in their 30s (especially those who have never been married or have no kids) are still on the shelf for a reason. They are simply unfuckable fucktards of the highest order.

What I will say is this: in just the past two years I have seen a marked increase in women unwilling to have a second date. It's become much, much, much worse. I can recall in 2013, my best recent year for game, there was nothing I could do wrong - I always got a second date.

Banged them on first? Second date.
Never escalated? Second date.
Took them past the "point of no-return", but never closed? Second date.

Chicks blowing up my phone after the first date. The past is a foreign country. I had a second date with a chick about a week ago, and it stood out as such an outlier due to recent experience that I though I was being punk'd. She was 25, if that makes any difference.

I agree with everything you've said and my experiences have been similar, especially with women in their 30's who have never been married and have no kids. They really seem to be the most defective of them all. The combined hit with the wall, bitterness about missing out on marriage and kids and long ride on the carousel is the perfect undatable storm.

As for you joking about the second date being punk'd it reminded me of the times where I see couples out and about at the mall or restaurants and I almost want to go up to the guy and seriously say "bro how in the HELL did you even get a second date out of her?"

[griffinmill]

(12-02-2015 01:32 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

As for you joking about the second date being punk'd it reminded me of the times where I see couples out and about at the mall or restaurants and I almost want to go up to the guy and seriously say "bro how in the HELL did you even get a second date out of her?"

I'm a wedding photographer by trade, and do about 40 weddings every year, so I get to hear all of the stories about how people are meeting. It's all social circle. There are no second dates as such. The guys pull what I call an "inside job"; an orbiter for years, lurking under the radar. The wedding I'm currently editing? He's a very low-energy, personality-deficient 4 and she's a 7. Knew each other for ten years. Neighbours at college. If he want online and tried to get a FIRST date he'd be curled up in a corner listening to Enya and writing bad poetry before the week was over.

[OregonToSoCal]

(12-02-2015 01:46 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

If he want online and tried to get a FIRST date he'd be curled up in a corner listening to Enya and writing bad poetry before the week was over.