[malc]

Do what you can do, get that body fat down, go to the gym, treat those skin conditions, get into BJJ/Boxing, up your energy levels with good food, sleep & supplements, bike to work, make health and fitness your new hobby.

I find things like heart rate monitors, fitbits and so on make it more like a video game and more fun.

[Sentrix]

(07-01-2012 11:51 AM)Cooze Hound Wrote:  

I always wondered who feeding these fatties the idea that they can land these model guys? Or do they really land these guys? If so I never see a fatty out with a guy that like the ones above, but somehow they all have this sense of entitlement.

In America's modern (and growing) fatty-friendly, you're-beautiful-no-matter-what society, this logic is commonplace.
No, they cannot and do not land those guys. They complain about it, may resort to online dating, and eventually find chubby-chaser betas.

But the belief that they somehow deserve that kind of guy remains.

[XXL]

(07-01-2012 02:46 PM)Edmunds Wrote:  

What I need to know is this though, when you say ACCESS, how TOUGH is it to get that?

you gain by bringing women. women are like currency in nightlife. if you're known for bringing women to the venues with you you will be treated like a VIP. it's hard cause girls are usually all over the place and bringing them with you consistently might be pain in the ass. but if you can do that then that's your ticket. other girls will flock you, other guys will be super friendly

[Spike]

(07-01-2012 01:26 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I'm curious what the average caliber of woman a typical RVF member pulls here in the U.S.? I'd say my average would probably be a 6.5, I typically hook up with chicks in the 6-7 range, had a few slump busting 5's and a few 8's, but most fall in the 6-7 range.

I'm guessing most women would probably rate me a 7, maybe a 7.5 if they're not too hung up on height and are digging "my look."

In my opinion it's quite rare that a guy will date 2 points higher than his level, unless he has high status or dope lifestyle ($$), so basically a 6 man will have little chances of dating an 8, unless he brings something else to the table.

I'd really like to do better and average closer to 7.5, ideally 8+, but the sexual/dating market I am in is too heavily stacked against men.

I could have written myself. This is exactly my situation and opinion.

[Spike]

(07-01-2012 10:29 AM)Edmunds Wrote:  

I don't even know if Tall dark and handsome still has its appeal, in the college I am at, two of my good friends are Blonde guys with "All American" looks and they consistently

1. get showered with women
2. get called pretty boys
3. have girls (of all backgrounds) give them attention
4. are doing good with women despite not even knowing about "game", they just stand there and women approach them

I have brown eyes with dark hair and a huge nose, I am taller than them too, but the thing is I have BF levels at around 14% so I have fat left on my cheeks (was a fat kid due to bad parenting and bad decisions).

Btw, one of those guys you posted is on Bodybuilding.com, I think he is a member there.

I have started reading GQ often.

This thread should be moved to the newbie section because it's radiating with potential trollishness.

Two tips to you.

1 - watch those two guys you speak of like a hawk, their every move and see how it's different from your behavior.
2 - Get a nose job, by the sound of your posts you have a big problem with it. This will control your life even if you have a million dollars in the bank. You will never feel good enough.

[Rurik]

I don't think the OP is a troll. In my opinion, guys who rely just on game, and approaching tons of girls, aren't going to pull many girls in the 8 + category. Game is simply far overrated in the "pua community". Game was originally for regular dudes, with average to below average looks, and nothing special going on, to be able to fuck cute girls. And you can do that, but getting pussy in the 8-9.5+ range (I don't believe in true 10s), almost always requires something other than pure macking abilities.


The answer to the OPs question is: CELEBRITIES (or men of high status, and no status is not primarily based on behavior, but on social position.)


Also, being a rare commodity in the right sexual market will get you some hot ass. For example, I've fucked a few 8s, and it wasn't game that did it. It was the fact I'm a good looking white man, and I was in an asian country, where the women highly desire a man of my type. Now, in america, I've approached HUNDREDS of women(well over 100 numbers were taken), and only gotten laid once off of it. Another example would be being a black dude with the right swag, in norway will allow you to probably pull pussy outside of your normal category.


Another thing that most guys in the "pua" community don't get, is that america is a WINNER TAKE ALL SOCIETY, when it comes to sex. The celebrities are fucking THOUSANDS of girls in the 8-9.5+ category. They are taking the spoils, and there is nothing you can do about that. No amount of game is going to get you into that category. But I get the sense that a lot of guys really think that it's THEIR FAULT they aren't banging hot girls. They've just fallen prey to ridiculous pua marketing.

Game is overrated. Fame, good looks, money, fishbowl, or being the right exotic man in the right dating pool are the most important factors.

[polish rumble]

1. Game and looks are mutually exclusive

2. Women are only interested in power, status and confidence

It's just up to you how you deliver it. Ofc rich guys, celebrities and so on got a natural advantage, cuz their fame, money or looks built their position, make them uber-confident and noticeable for the ladies. That's why they got laid like a boss, and that's hat's why i always advice everyone to sort out their professional life before hitting on the girls, you will see the difference yourself

[Deluge]

(06-30-2012 11:34 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

I've also noticed women tend to throw themselves at guys like this or be very sexually forward. This look seems to be a universal ideal that most if not all women go for (tall, dark and handsome).

A guy I used to wing with fit this bill. 6 ft something Brazilian with a face that made girls think he was a model. None of the girls who threw themselves at him were attractive and his sheer lack of game and beta bitch behaviour meant he never got any action whatsoever.

[velkrum]

P Dog Wrote:

A guy I used to wing with fit this bill. 6 ft something Brazilian with a face that made girls think he was a model. None of the girls who threw themselves at him were attractive and his sheer lack of game and beta bitch behaviour meant he never got any action whatsoever.

what's your point ?

• Attractive women don't go for "tall, dark, handsome" guys who look like models ?
• You had 1 friend out of one specific scenario, in a foreign (non-American) country that didn't pull attractive women with his model looks ?

[Belize King]

My main problem with this thread is the definition of an 8+. Whatever you consider to be an 8+, seems like you are placing yourself outside the pussy. You aren't worthy of smashing. Is that what an 8+ is? A lizard that you think is too good for you?

Somebody else stated earlier to go where you are valued. I'm black and live in the valley in Texas so whatever 8+ pussy is I have smashed because my value is alot higher there.

Finally American white bitches are pretty lame. The 6's and 7's think they are the shit so I can imagine your 8+. The only American white girls I have smashed have phat asses or smoke bud. Other than that most think they are too good for anyone. You can have your American 8+, I'll stick to smashing my bad Latina beauties with a little chocolate on the side.

[snoop]

(07-01-2012 10:29 AM)Edmunds Wrote:  

I don't even know if Tall dark and handsome still has its appeal, in the college I am at, two of my good friends are Blonde guys with "All American" looks and they consistently

1. get showered with women
2. get called pretty boys
3. have girls (of all backgrounds) give them attention
4. are doing good with women despite not even knowing about "game", they just stand there and women approach them

I have brown eyes with dark hair and a huge nose, I am taller than them too, but the thing is I have BF levels at around 14% so I have fat left on my cheeks (was a fat kid due to bad parenting and bad decisions).

Btw, one of those guys you posted is on Bodybuilding.com, I think he is a member there.

I have started reading GQ often.

The "dark" part of that saying isn't necessarily about skin tone.....

[Roosh]

Quote:

And you can do that, but getting pussy in the 8-9.5+ range (I don't believe in true 10s), almost always requires something other than pure macking abilities.

That fact isn't really contested here. This isn't RSD or whatever saying you can pull 10 with game only. This is why a lot of guys here work on more than just their game, like their money, body, location, gimmick, and so on. Ultimately you may need some type of in that gets you regular access to where beautiful women can be found.

If a club has two 9s at one time, and both are with dudes, you're obviously going to hit a ceiling with just approaching at night. There are pros and cons to every road you take.

[46.]

(07-01-2012 12:34 PM)XXL Wrote:  

guys with 2 main attributes..

- location -
- access -

This is key. Forget the rich/celebrity stuff. If you can generate REGULAR proximity you're getting close. I've dated a few women (high-end Buppie-types) who were also pursued by NBA/Famous Rapper types. Looking back at it, proximity was key, outside the club/bar environment. This alone gets you a head start. Sure you're at a disadvantage being outside the VIP Room- so don't go there and focus your game in a more normal, less celebrity/cash-saturated environment.

The key, in my opinion, is to be seen as a leader/guy who makes stuff happen in YOUR natural habitat. Improve yourself and don't worry about not being rich/famous. (Don't complain until you've hit 200 pushups a day) Hopefully the proximity is there too, but you can generate that.

Proximity and access are also important to get a feeling for these chicks and their sensibilities. When you're around them alot the nervousness goes down. If you're coherent around them, not drooling, and understand them... you have a shot. You're not intimidated, but just realize you're dealing with a "higher barrier to entry" (and odds). So pulling a black 9 is easier for someone like me because I know their deal (as opposed to a US blond 9 or Russian 9 type, for example).

One other note about proximity and access; even see those weird fashion photographer guys with their model gals??? It ain't happening to the same dude, with the same talent and cash if he's shooting Big Macs for McDonald's ads.

[Deluge]

(07-02-2012 08:50 AM)velkrum Wrote:  

P Dog Wrote:

A guy I used to wing with fit this bill. 6 ft something Brazilian with a face that made girls think he was a model. None of the girls who threw themselves at him were attractive and his sheer lack of game and beta bitch behaviour meant he never got any action whatsoever.

what's your point ?

• Attractive women don't go for "tall, dark, handsome" guys who look like models ?
• You had 1 friend out of one specific scenario, in a foreign (non-American) country that didn't pull attractive women with his model looks ?

He's just one example that I always use in this kind of debate. And just to clarify, he lives in Australia and this wasn't just the one time, this is consistent for him. My point is that great looks are squandered if you have zero game. Being tall, dark and extremely handsome will not automatically unlock "8+" girls, or any girls at all for that matter. If your game is embarrassingly bad then having perfect looks isn't going to make up for it.

[theIVth]

The guys that get the girls are the ones that you would assume do: rich guys, cool guys and guys that most girls think are physically attractive.

Become that guy and your in. At the very least you can hit the gym and get your body all the way together. Hit up a pool party 2 years after working out consistently and I guarantee the quality of girl that peeps you will go up. Start wearing clothes that accentuate your physique and I guarantee the quality of girl that you notice noticing you will go up.

If you want what you rarely get or have never gotten, you gotta do what you've rarely done or never done.

[ManAbout]

(07-02-2012 10:10 PM)P Dog Wrote:  

He's just one example that I always use in this kind of debate. And just to clarify, he lives in Australia and this wasn't just the one time, this is consistent for him. My point is that great looks are squandered if you have zero game. Being tall, dark and extremely handsome will not automatically unlock "8+" girls, or any girls at all for that matter. If your game is embarrassingly bad then having perfect looks isn't going to make up for it.

It's an isolated example. Sure, there are good looking guys with model looks out there who have absolutely no game, but I think this is the minority. Eventually, just the fact that women throw themselves at them all the time is enough to give them game. At the core of game is a lack of neediness. This in turn allows you to interact with women without fear of outcome, the basic principle of game. How do good looking women learn "game"? The same way. Most attractive women have game, rarely do you come across a beautiful girl that doesn't know how to bring a man to his knees.

Moreover, it won't take much to turn this friend of yours around and teach him game and make him unstoppable with women.

[soup]

My friend's buddy is a punk-rock star. When he's on tour, he's having sex with 4-5 girls at once. It's essentially a one-man orgy.

I'm wondering if fame and game are at odds...

Time spent grinding away after 6-7s could be spent working on something that could make you famous.

I'm sure the experience of grinding will help in someway, but, when I think about the amount of time I put into going out, hitting girls up on OKC, etc. and I compare it with the results I'm getting, it doesn't seem efficient enough. I'm still learning, so maybe that's what is holding things up, but I wonder if the time would be better spent trying to get famous.

Maybe there's a way to perfectly blend the two.

[OGNorCal707]

(07-03-2012 01:57 AM)soup Wrote:  

My friend's buddy is a punk-rock star. When he's on tour, he's having sex with 4-5 girls at once. It's essentially a one-man orgy.

I'm wondering if fame and game are at odds...

Time spent grinding away after 6-7s could be spent working on something that could make you famous.

I'm sure the experience of grinding will help in someway, but, when I think about the amount of time I put into going out, hitting girls up on OKC, etc. and I compare it with the results I'm getting, it doesn't seem efficient enough. I'm still learning, so maybe that's what is holding things up, but I wonder if the time would be better spent trying to get famous.

Maybe there's a way to perfectly blend the two.

I think you're far less likely to get famous than you are to vastly improve your game, at least as far as ROI for time spent on either endeavor. You can however develop a niche and develop status within a fishbowl, (DJ at neighborhood club, frontman of Indie rockband in local scene, well respected tattoo artist, etc.)

If you could develop game and develop status in your niche, side by side at the same time, that would be $$.

[Giovonny]

This is what I am working on now. Improving my game while at the same time increasing my fame.

I see no reason why we can't work on both at the same time.

[WestCoast]

Salsa ON3... You're in shape, it's free, girls want to learn, I'm doing a terrible job selling you! Doesn't bode well for my career :/

In 3 months girls will directly ask you are you a salsaaaa teacherrr??? Really?!! You shoulddd teach!!!

Nail in coffin.

(07-03-2012 12:12 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

This is what I am working on now. Improving my game while at the same time increasing my fame.

I see no reason why we can't work on both at the same time.

[at350zguyy]

(07-03-2012 12:12 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

This is what I am working on now. Improving my game while at the same time increasing my fame.

I see no reason why we can't work on both at the same time.

this should be the MO for life.

ready to ball out in vegas gio?

[Deb Auchery]

This is somewhat my plan to when I return to Ukraine. I have been steadily building up a bad boy reputation in my city over the past year, virgin defloration, ons, lewd behaviour on the streets etc. The worse I act, the more successful I become.

Was considering leaving my city for another that has more top-level gash, but I have invested too much time there already, better to take it to the next level. Banging only 8 and above. I have enough girls on the go there to never starve so I can afford to go for the top tier. For this I will need to think about game a little more which I don't usually do.

[velkrum]

soup Wrote:

I'm wondering if fame and game are at odds...

Time spent grinding away after 6-7s could be spent working on something that could make you famous.

• Game should be developed in between the pursuit of Financial Success and Fitness.
  

[Giovonny]

(07-03-2012 12:22 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Salsa ON3... You're in shape, it's free, girls want to learn, I'm doing a terrible job selling you! Doesn't bode well for my career :/

In 3 months girls will directly ask you are you a salsaaaa teacherrr??? Really?!! You shoulddd teach!!!

Nail in coffin.

Dude, you really got me thinking?!?!?!

I know I would do well in that fishbowl - why aren't i doing it!!!

I am currently looking for some easier fishbowls, this could be one of my next good ones!

I have also been thinking of teaching yoga.

I always try to combine my careers and my sexual fishbowls. I know I am getting closer to my next great one!

(07-03-2012 01:15 PM)at350zguyy Wrote:  

ready to ball out in vegas gio?

Can't wait. The summer league is alot of fun! You will love it.

[Giovonny]

(07-03-2012 01:43 PM)velkrum Wrote:  

• Game should be developed in between the pursuit of Financial Success and Fitness.
  

I strive to work on all 3 simultaneously, sort of like what Roosh has done.