We know the drill: if she flakes without offering another chance to meet up/suggesting another date, move on. Or persist at your own risk.

I believe that too. Until my data and my buddies' start to contradict this.

Among the girl that I ended up banging or having fun with, some of them flakes. NONE of them offer to meet up at another time. I persisted and eventually got the bang.

Same thing with my wing. He hunts more than I do and he rarely ever get a counter-offer. Sometimes he pushed through 2-3 flakes, bang the girls, and she turned out to like him a lot. They are even on a mini LTR

Other than that, most girls we ended up banging showed up on time at first date, came to second date etc. Though who flaked never counter offered, so they either disappear or a few ended up getting banged. Its all or nothing.

Whats your own experience? Is the counter offer a myth or still a viable counsel?

It might just be the Parisian environment, but you never know.

French women enjoy being chased, they don't find it 'creepy' and 'perverted' as Anglo girls often do. This might be the reason, maybe get data from an Anglo country to see if this is true.

Honestly I've had plenty of flakes, plenty of girls that say they are busy or have plans, but don't counter-offer.

I think they want you to make the counter offer because they feel it's your responsibility. I've gotten bangs within the first or second flake.

Persist if you have the patience. After the bang insist on an answer for everything asap with absolutely no flakes.

There is no exact rule book just guidelines...if she is in general a flaky chick you have to play it by ear if you have the time or cut her off. But you should address with no flake policy at later stage.

You could also lay her off for a month and return with counter weeks later work others in the meanwhile. Which is what she likely is doing. After 2-3 counters max...throw it away send her pic of penis.

If a chick knows your life will continue with or without them, they'll be hitting you up KNOWING FULL WELL that you're probably doing some epic shit...

P.S...So many women end up messaging me months later stating they miss me, wondering what I've been up to, or commenting in person about something they seen on my facebook. It's very obvious that no specific chick plays any significant role in my overall life.

A counter offer from a girl is just an indication that her interest in you is high

Quote: (09-15-2014 11:49 AM)MrXY Wrote:  

A counter offer from a girl is just an indication that her interest in you is high

agreed. I dig girls that counter offer as they are either
a) really interested
or
b) incredibly polite, which is rare enough to be worth chasing.

Well, girls who counter-offer tend to be social circle. A rando is going to leave it up to you.
I don't see it as a bad thing because it's not their role to be active, they kinda say "I got this problem, you fix it if you want it"

It's nice to see a girl who counter-offers though, but like most of you gents, those birds are rare.

Quote: (09-15-2014 11:45 AM)Distant Light Wrote:  

If a chick knows your life will continue with or without them, they'll be hitting you up KNOWING FULL WELL that you're probably doing some epic shit...

P.S...So many women end up messaging me months later stating they miss me, wondering what I've been up to, or commenting in person about something they seen on my facebook. It's very obvious that no specific chick plays any significant role in my overall life.

Sometimes if chicks flake...and you continue to stay in touch with them via small talk "what up?!?"...they might counter offer with a "so..when are we hanging out" letting you make the decision. This normally happens when chicks know you have a "life" and other interesting shit going on in your life without them as you alluded to. Agreed on that. Least that is the case with my experiences.

Yes, sometimes shit tests. Sometimes genuine (the more interactions we have).

If a girl I am sure is keen on me counter offers (to meet elsewhere), she is still keen but shit testing me. She knows whats up so she wants to still think she can play me.

If I met her through social circle or shes always on the scene, counter offers are more common but it means that you gotta go through extra hoops as she associates you with them and that's the safest route there. If you got a tight crew you can go meet them and mingle.

Vis-a-vis ones who counter offer a different time/reschedule on their flakes are interested as they obviously are keen enough to come out of their little ego-shell and offer you a time and place.

@Brosemite

Agreed, those girls are definitely the keenest but usually the sluttiest. If you are utilizing your social media, girls are much more reactive to these texts, it solidifies that 'life' element because they have access to 'you'.

In my opinion , Counter offer = Wild sex that she enjoyed and asking for more.
You can always try to re-contact her if you enjoyed banging her , if no response move on .

Not in my case; that's why they're flakes.

If they can't be bothered to re-negotiate then I can't be bothered to care.

Simple as that.

Seem like the counter offer is pretty rare for everyone then. Guess I just have to persist for the bang anyway.

Thinking back I have lost quite a few bangs then for just ignoring flakes who didnt counter offer.

The French girls mystère is just that, a myth. Guys get called creepy here too if they text 3 in a row. A buddy almost get a harassment card too.

I don't think I can call a girl who makes an excuse and suggests another time "a flake". People do genuinely run into unexpected situations and have to change plans. To me, flaking is something malicious by nature.

Yeah. the ones that do, I keep them in my phone.

yes girls are awesome

Quote: (09-15-2014 11:04 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

Honestly I've had plenty of flakes, plenty of girls that say they are busy or have plans, but don't counter-offer.

I think they want you to make the counter offer because they feel it's your responsibility. I've gotten bangs within the first or second flake.

Oh yeah. Definitely. Some girls like being chased. Besides, what's the cost and effort involved in sending a text?

edit - this specifically applies for me for college girls. If you're 24 and can't get your shit together, next.

Quote: (09-16-2014 08:10 PM)horn Wrote:  

Quote: (09-15-2014 11:04 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

Honestly I've had plenty of flakes, plenty of girls that say they are busy or have plans, but don't counter-offer.

I think they want you to make the counter offer because they feel it's your responsibility. I've gotten bangs within the first or second flake.

Oh yeah. Definitely. Some girls like being chased. Besides, what's the cost and effort involved in sending a text?

edit - this specifically applies for me for college girls. If you're 24 and can't get your shit together, next.

fuck eh. specifically for college girls
shouldn't have deleted those # then. fuuuuuuuuck

There's no great harm in continuing to pursue past a girl stating she can't make it to an agreed upon meeting.

HOWEVER, you must calibrate.

She flakes yet doesn't even respond until well past the date and it's a shitty excuse? NEXT

She says she can't make it, she's got some legitimate sounding reason and she gives you a solid counter-offer? FOLLOW UP

Everything in between? Calibrate, use your best judgement.

Also, I don't even really consider the 2nd one a flake, the first one is a definite flake and I don't get a ton of those, I try to make a solid impression.

I've had a few who counter-offered and then flaked on the rescheduled date they'd suggested.

There really is no easy way to understand the mind of a given woman, you're always playing the odds at first.

An interesting case study in flakes/date cancellations and counter offers from the girl:

trying to figure out this girl I used to bang. We banged for a few months...good sex. We decided to take a break as she 'needed space'

We recently re established comminications and I asked her out for drinks. She said yes then..... She changed plans the day of but counter offered. So...on the rescheduled date.... she just canceled again with a somewhat apologetic and detailed ( as to the reason for cancelling) text.

I was pissed but just text responded " I wasn't going to be able to make it anyway" to which she immediately responded: "ok, you free tomorrow night?"

I non chalantly said tomorrow night was better for me also which she immediately responded "sounds good"

obviously her interest is high enough to offer counters without me doing so.

I'm wondering if she's shit testing ( two date cancellations albeit with counter offers ) or if I should give her the benefit of the doubt that she's not bullshitting me and is ready to recommence the sex. Guess I'll show up and find out.

I try to lock them in. If she say she can't make it and doesn't offer a counter offer. I say the following...

What are you doing the next couple nights
What are you doing Monday & Tuesday night?
What about [day]

If she makes out she is busy for the whole week, say you will contact her on Sunday to see where we both are at.
DON'T CONTACT her on Sunday and wait 2-3 days.
Repeat above

For example, soon as she says "I'm not doing anything Tuesday night" say "ok, we will catch up on Tuesday night for a couple drinks." (never ask, that's what betas do, a man leads).

If she flakes a second time, don't reply and move onto the next girl on your phone.

Everyone knows it's wrong to flake on someone. If she does it twice, she clearly doesn't give a fuck about you cause you have no valve to her.

Quote: (09-15-2014 10:22 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

We know the drill: if she flakes without offering another chance to meet up/suggesting another date, move on. Or persist at your own risk.

I believe that too. Until my data and my buddies' start to contradict this.

Among the girl that I ended up banging or having fun with, some of them flakes. NONE of them offer to meet up at another time. I persisted and eventually got the bang.

Same thing with my wing. He hunts more than I do and he rarely ever get a counter-offer. Sometimes he pushed through 2-3 flakes, bang the girls, and she turned out to like him a lot. They are even on a mini LTR

Other than that, most girls we ended up banging showed up on time at first date, came to second date etc. Though who flaked never counter offered, so they either disappear or a few ended up getting banged. Its all or nothing.

Whats your own experience? Is the counter offer a myth or still a viable counsel?

It might just be the Parisian environment, but you never know.

I recently had a flake and I countered her with a new time new location then I flaked on her, told her I was busy, then countered and another place and time, she agreed then I flaked out again on her, gave no reason, she texted me wtf! I texted a few hours later and said shit I forgot, but did not apologize. she said do you want to meet or not! clearly she was getting frustrated I said ok, where? when? she gave me a time in which I countered could we do another place and time the following day where she agreed. This time I showed up 30 minutes late and she climbed me like a tree unfortunately I missed the bang because I had a meeting that afternoon. Next day she invited me out, I told her I could not go because I had a engagement she asked about the next night I said sure, we met out she climbed like a tree again and invited me over. I was actually legit tired so I declined on the basis's that she was moving too fast for me. Now she won't leave me alone. Flake (cured) I'm working her right using the I'm interested now I'm not game as an experiment, funny how their minds work

Modern times require a modern sort of patience. I believe that the market can no longer support the pride behind nexting girls after the first sign of flakeage. Currently, and depending on your value and location, you do have to eat a little bit of shit by weathering a flake or two and running a Persistence Game. That said, there still is a fine line between persistence and being a doormat. It's up to you to weigh the costs-benefits in respect of time/options/ego. Persistence Game has worked on some occasions for me, and has failed on other occasions.

Quote: (07-07-2015 01:49 PM)civpro Wrote:  

Modern times require a modern sort of patience. I believe that the market can no longer support the pride behind nexting girls after the first sign of flakeage. Currently, and depending on your value and location, you do have to eat a little bit of shit by weathering a flake or two and running a Persistence Game. That said, there still is a fine line between persistence and being a doormat. It's up to you to weigh the costs-benefits in respect of time/options/ego. Persistence Game has worked on some occasions for me, and has failed on other occasions.

Persistence has worked a few times for me in the past as well but my observation is it resulted in landing a few girls that did not totally respect me, sure I got laid but shook my core a bit every time. For example when I was last in EE in a few villages I was running that kinda game due to the conservative nature of the women, even then knowing is was not a total disrespect thing and more of a fear thing I still felt off after I would land one and felt my inner beta demon starting to rear it's ugly head. One girl I finally got on a date after some persistence kept asking me why I seemed so nervous around her (not a good look) I was able to recover but by the skin of my teeth using a little aloof/asshole game.

In the city I'm in now persistence never worked for me, maybe because I'm an average Joe. I treat flaking as a shit test and turn it against them. Maybe if I was one of the Winklevoss twins that would work but I doubt any women is going to flake on a Tall, in shape, rich, Olympic rower with a Harvard degree if you can see my point. Women do not flake when they have a high interest level and sometimes if your average looks and of average income then unfortunately it's in your hands sometimes to jack that interest level up by reversing the role of who wants who. Especially if you're in a place with high competition.

Usually if there's no counter-offer it's not worth the time to chase. But of course nothing is 100 so you may be able to chase and get the bang anyways.

That said, 999 times out of 1000, if she flakes without a counter-offer she is automatically not relationship material. Even if you do get the bang, the pace of the relationship has been set: she will continue to expect you to chase her for any attention. The odds are extremely high she will lose interest in you as well, because she wasn't that interested to begin with.

Unless she is very hot, I don't bother with flakes.