That is completely, and totally, untrue.

Some of the hottest girls I know date tattoo artists, bartenders, DJs, drummers, skateboarders, "I don't know exactly what this guy does for a living but apparently he's funemployed", musicians, and all kinds of other degenerates.

Many of the wealthiest guys are total omegas when it comes to women. They throw around cash awkwardly hoping everyone in the room will think they're cool. It looks like they're paying people to be around them, which is as beta as it gets. What's worse is these guys get emotionally invested in total hoes, and are heartbroken to learn that even though they just took her on an all expenses trip to Vegas, she blew the bartender two nights after they got back.

If all you have is money to get girls, you're fucked. Because other guys have money, too. She'll leave in a heartbeat for a guy with more money, better game, and better looks. Worse yet, she'll enjoy your money while blowing the heavy metal bassist a few nights a week.

Money certainly can compliment game, especially in LTRs, but you need to know how to use it.

I don't even introduce myself as a lawyer anymore. If women ask my occupation, I usually say "writer". I don't let the fact that I have money come out early.

I guess the only thing we can agree on is:

Money over bitches.

Quote: (11-03-2015 12:12 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

Men with money are the ones who desperately need game more than anyone else. Otherwise you are going to get rinsed.

I agree 100% with this and what HankMoody says above. Being wealthy can be an impediment if you don't already have good game. Relying on using money first instead of game puts you in the provider roll. And it's a temptation to use money instead of hard work to get the girl. I also try to downplay what I have just to give my game a chance. But as soon as they notice it's 10 times harder to keep them in play. They shit test for provider mercilessly once they sniff money.

Quote: (11-03-2015 10:50 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  

Quote: (11-03-2015 12:12 AM)Pride male Wrote:  

Men with money are the ones who desperately need game more than anyone else. Otherwise you are going to get rinsed.

I agree 100% with this and what HankMoody says above. Being wealthy can be an impediment if you don't already have good game. Relying on using money first instead of game puts you in the provider roll. And it's a temptation to use money instead of hard work to get the girl. I also try to downplay what I have just to give my game a chance. But as soon as they notice it's 10 times harder to keep them in play. They shit test for provider mercilessly once they sniff money.

I was wondering - there must be a way to balance this and still be more or less open about the cash you have.

I am nowhere near any high net worth value, but for Eastern Europe it's enough to stay in the Hilton and have a good life. Some girls have accused me of being cheap, but still had sex with me.

At other times I simply said that I am unemployed, giving her a wide grin while smoking my fat cigar in the club. Technically it's true that I am unemployed, because I don't work for anyone, but still .... it catches girls off-guard.

There are probably other ways on how to maximize the bounty of both being unapologetically successful and still tick many r-selected boxes.

"Yup, I am very rich. But I am not husband material, so you don't even have to try." Grinning.

"We can have great times together, though." eye twinkle

Part of the impression you make is to go the way of the Playboy-Fun-Lifestyle Man instead of the guy who drives S-Class mercedes and will be her sugar-daddy. There are some pretty basic tools on how to break through female mental patterns like having a tattoo or two on your arms, by dressing more like the lifestyle kind of guy and by not spending too much money on her in the beginning.

I am sure that if a guy like Nik Krauser goes to town with the topic with a sufficiently high budget, then he could work out the optimal strategy and then write a book called "Rich Man's guide to get laid like a boss and not like a simp."

Of course that is a rather limited market - also mostly for men after a certain age. Girls do accept the fact that many rich men in their 20s or early 30s won't settle down, that's why plenty of Gold-diggers are specifically looking for more "mature" men thinking that they won't be pumped and dumped like from the younger crowd.

You're overthinking it too much Zel, there are not many factors/variables.

I've seen that the less thirsty one appears, the better results happen....which is one thing that game teaches. Bitches want to prove themselves to you if they sense you're not falling into their orbit. It's like the abundance mentality....why bother with that hoe if there are 5 others ready to go? I know it's time consuming in essence, but making it appear nonchalant to them will work.

Game is trolling and passing shit tests....by trolling.

Examples:
Girl via text Yesterday
Her:" Really. How many gfs do you have? Be honest"
Me: "6. I need one more so I can have one every day"
Her: "LOL. "
She wants to meet up in a couple of hours.

At a patio restaurant over drinks while in a "no fucks given" pose.
Girl "What do you do?"
Me "I sell drugs"....and then move on to the next thing with another random "doesn't answer the question but fun" answer.

On Sat this big titted "all american" girl wanted to meet up after her beta chump didn't deliver.....so she thought I would.
Her "I'm free, want to come and catch up with me at X steakhouse?"
Me: "I'm not anyone's backup plan, busy"....sent her a pic of the current gal.
Her: Long ass message going hamster that I did not bother to read.
EDIT: She sent a text this morning about not using me as a back up and other crap....didn't respond.

You're golden on this line though:

"That's why plenty of Gold-diggers are specifically looking for more "mature" men thinking that they won't be pumped and dumped like from the younger crowd."

These hoes had a train run them through and now they are sour grapes as to why they cannot buckle down a beta. Even then, they still catch the tingles for the bad boys.

Quote: (11-03-2015 12:53 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

You're overthinking it too much Zel, there are not many factors/variables.

I've seen that the less thirsty one appears, the better results happen....which is one thing that game teaches.

Cattle Rustler, in my experience women try to put you into a fun guy vs provider role. I've been running the exact type of game you gave in your post and having success, until they find out. Then they change and fight very hard to put me into the provider role. I think it's that they want to find a mega-provider so they try to put me into that box. I already have an abundance mentality, that's not the problem. And I've developed tools that sometimes work. Keep in mind that I'm past my 30s. If you're younger and wealthy, that wouldn't be a problem.

There is a video of a guy on SoBe that is running game with his friend that's a doctor. He's the fun guy that the girls want to hook up with. His friend has trouble running the exact same game since the girls don't want him to be the bad boy, they want him to be the dull provider. It works out better for the women that way. Why waste a wealthy guy that's also a bad boy that just wants to hook up and never give you resources?

Zel, I like traveling to EE or South America because to them we're all wealthy. They can't tell the difference between someone that's doing ok and a 9 figure guy. It levels the playing field and forces you to just use game.

While I am one of the most pro-game dudes out there, never underestimate the power of cold hard cash, as this thread amply demonstrates.

thread-45437.html

Game exploits psychology and money is a basic necessity/desire and aint going away. Money + game makes you a god to women. Ever heard of a broke romance novel hero? Me neither. Ideally you should learn how to leverage both.

Quote: (11-03-2015 02:11 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

Cattle Rustler, in my experience women try to put you into a fun guy vs provider role. I've been running the exact type of game you gave in your post and having success, until they find out. Then they change and fight very hard to put me into the provider role. I think it's that they want to find a mega-provider so they try to put me into that box. I already have an abundance mentality, that's not the problem. And I've developed tools that sometimes work. Keep in mind that I'm past my 30s. If you're younger and wealthy, that wouldn't be a problem.

There is a video of a guy on SoBe that is running game with his friend that's a doctor. He's the fun guy that the girls want to hook up with. His friend has trouble running the exact same game since the girls don't want him to be the bad boy, they want him to be the dull provider. It works out better for the women that way. Why waste a wealthy guy that's also a bad boy that just wants to hook up and never give you resources?

I have met some girls in Poland who do look for the Mega-provider, but they are less common than in St. Tropez of course.

There are also tools of creating a persona that is utterly non-provider like, but this becomes increasingly strange the older you are unless you are really that kind of man.

Quote:Quote:

Alexander Zaldostanov ©, nicknamed "the Surgeon", leader of a group of Russian bikers called the Night Wolves

He is actually a real surgeon and is also a millionaire due to various businesses. He might be worth 8 or even 9 digits $ for all we know. Still - most girls would rather put him into the adventure box with the added plus that if they get pregnant by him, then it would be potentially a million dollar pay-out.

But of course this kind of persona creation of biker gang, neck tattoo etc. is rather extreme to do just in order to get laid.

And honestly - if the girl is hot enough and finds you somewhat attractive, then a little bit of sugar if you can afford it is not bad, especially as you start going into the 40-50 age. I don't mind paying a girl a trip to Paris, if we had sex before and she had no such expectations beforehand. We have to keep in mind that the borders after Alpha Sport Fuck and some sort of provider aspects become fleeting. Most of us here are not overly fond of P4P, but we are also realistic enough to admit that it becomes more difficult to bang girls in their prime with increasing age - if some sugar or a sort of mini-LTR make it happen, then so be it. I would rather pay a bit, then bang women closer to my age. Or to put it clearly - better be Berlusconi than Jeb Bush.

BossofBosses, that thread about tagthesponsor is just p4p. To me that is a very large temptation that I would rather avoid. It would be too easy to just pay women to sleep with me. I don't have any moral problem with p4p but I think it is a slippery slope that would eliminate the struggle to make yourself a better person.

Zel, I agree that when you get into your 40s-50s the rules start to change. To me flying a women with me on a trip isn't p4p. I enjoy the better things in life so if a girl I'm sleeping with is coming with me then she gets to enjoy that as well. The key is a girl I've already slept with. My problem is when Western girls become born again virgins when they see someone with money. This seems to be more prone to happen with US/UK women. My guess is where you can divorce rape a guy it makes more sense to try to get him to marry you. For girls in EE or South America they'll just be happy to go along for the ride. Another problem with Western women is them trying to get pregnant. Can't remember how many times I've heard "I don't like condoms" from an American woman. You don't ever hear this from a woman in a country with weak child support laws.

Alexander Zaldostanov looks like a total badass. Good for him. Unfortunately, I couldn't pull off that kind of lifestyle.

On that note, there is this 9 that I've been long gaming for awhile. 24 years old. Just my type physically. I've brought her to some of my exclusive events but never made a serious effort to bang. She's been to my house a few times, and knows that I have money, some internet fame (LOL), and a career.

Although we have mutual friends, we finally find something we both want to do together (she actually hit me up). I get VIP tickets for us and some friends to a concert and bottle service (free because I do work with the venue). They make a big deal over me and feed us drinks. Night goes great - lots of flirting, fun, touching, etc. Our accommodations are best in the house. I'm thinking I'm in like Flynn.

Towards the end of the night she runs into "a friend" and asks me if he can come into our section. Against my better judgment, I tell her it's cool. He's a young, good looking guy in the service industry who is also a comedian. ("You tell jokes for a living? That's funny.") Dude ends up blowing me out and going home with her. The ego in me likes to think that part of it is that I was too lazy to put up any serious fight.

She texts me the next morning "I had such a good time last night!!! Thank you!!!" but I don't feel like unlocking my phone and typing out a response. Not out of pissed off-ness, just because I don't care. (I respond to like 60% of the texts I get in any given day.)

Sometimes the guy with money and status gets blown out for a guy who tells jokes. It happens to the best of us. You move on and don't take it personally.

Quote: (11-03-2015 04:39 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Towards the end of the night she runs into "a friend" and asks me if he can come into our section. Against my better judgment, I tell her it's cool. He's a young, good looking guy in the service industry who is also a comedian. ("You tell jokes for a living? That's funny.") Dude ends up blowing me out and going home with her. The ego in me likes to think that part of it is that I was too lazy to put up any serious fight.

She texts me the next morning "I had such a good time last night!!! Thank you!!!" but I don't feel like unlocking my phone and typing out a response. Not out of pissed off-ness, just because I don't care. (I respond to like 60% of the texts I get in any given day.)

Sometimes the guy with money and status gets blown out for a guy who tells jokes. It happens to the best of us. You move on and don't take it personally.

Damn that sucks Hank, I think you know you played it perfectly up until you let that dude into the VIP section, but also she kind of put you in an odd spot, since you were trying to play it cool and act non-needy, with a "I don't give a fuck" vibe.

I would usually say maybe you were being a little "too cool" and not sexualizing things enough and making your intentions known, but you're saying that you were flirting, touching, etc., so she had to have known that you wanted to hook up with her.

I think the fact that she hit you up to hang out and then you brought her into your VIP world, it's kind of fucked up how she just brought that other dude in and ended up leaving with him, then texting you in the morning like nothing happened.

That's super disrespectful in my mind and kind of fucked up, but definitely not something to be upset about and take personally. It just kind of sucks that women that beautiful know that they can act that way and get away with it simply due to their beauty and looks.

Also in this particular situation the fact that she's 24 and super hot she's probably more in the party girl, looking for fun and excitement phase of her life, whereas she's not looking for an older more established guy with resources. Girls in that phase will take the tall, buff, handsome, cool guy usually over the successful, mature, and intelligent guy, though the differences are not mutually exclusive.

Quote: (11-03-2015 04:39 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

On that note, there is this 9 that I've been long gaming for awhile. 24 years old. Just my type physically. I've brought her to some of my exclusive events but never made a serious effort to bang.

Hank, don't you think that since you didn't escalate early on you may have put yourself into the friendzone accidentally? Or as you said, sometimes we win and sometimes the other guy wins. There's also the chance that she viewed you as the provider type and the comic as the one night stand guy.

You can have a don't give a fuck vibe, but also not get played. Women are looking out for their interests, what may seem like nothing to you is a big deal to them. The lesson from HankMoody's tale is: Trust your instincts.

Quote: (11-03-2015 05:13 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I think the fact that she hit you up to hang out and then you brought her into your VIP world, it's kind of fucked up how she just brought that other dude in and ended up leaving with him, then texting you in the morning like nothing happened.

A true 9 will have quite a few beta orbiters willing to give her VIP access, free food, free drinks, etc. The world a 9 lives in (in the West) is like a rock star. In her mind she didn't do anything she hasn't done a thousand times before.

Quote: (11-03-2015 05:31 PM)Gringuito Wrote:  

Quote: (11-03-2015 05:13 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I think the fact that she hit you up to hang out and then you brought her into your VIP world, it's kind of fucked up how she just brought that other dude in and ended up leaving with him, then texting you in the morning like nothing happened.

A true 9 will have quite a few beta orbiters willing to give her VIP access, free food, free drinks, etc. The world a 9 lives in (in the West) is like a rock star. In her mind she didn't do anything she hasn't done a thousand times before.

Ding dong.

That said, this was a band I'm into, and the VIP stuff didn't cost me anything. I didn't even pay for my ticket to the show.

It's like the advice I give you to young lawyers - "Take your potential clients to a ballgame. Even if you don't get any business, at least you got to watch a ballgame." We watched a band I wanted to see, sat in baller seats, and drank our faces off for free. A bang would have been nice, but my enjoyment of the night wasn't contingent on it.

My point here is that money is no substitute for game. The comedian dude, despite not having any money or real investment into the night, rolled in and walked away with the bang.

In hindsight, I would have invited a different chick, although this one is fun to hang out with. You win some, you lose some.

Quote: (11-03-2015 04:39 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Towards the end of the night she runs into "a friend" and asks me if he can come into our section. Against my better judgment, I tell her it's cool. He's a young, good looking guy in the service industry who is also a comedian. ("You tell jokes for a living? That's funny.") Dude ends up blowing me out and going home with her. The ego in me likes to think that part of it is that I was too lazy to put up any serious fight.

She texts me the next morning "I had such a good time last night!!! Thank you!!!" but I don't feel like unlocking my phone and typing out a response. Not out of pissed off-ness, just because I don't care. (I respond to like 60% of the texts I get in any given day.)

Sometimes the guy with money and status gets blown out for a guy who tells jokes. It happens to the best of us. You move on and don't take it personally.

I can still remember some of those experiences I had when young.

While your experience is not exactly identical it reminds me of those times in the Blue Pill Beta state. I still cringe whenever I think back to that. (Not implying that you were in that state - you are certainly more than aware of things.)

Now I simply have no patience for it. Whenever I invite someone I make it clear that I am interested in her. I am way too direct nowadays and would never allow another guy to come over. That's akin to letting another guy take over as I am about to put the tip in.

You cannot win them all of course, but you simply don't go from a private situation to a group setting - and with a good-looking comedian at that. I certainly would refuse and say that I am not so much into this kind of threesomes. If she takes it as an insult, then so be it. She can walk off, I still would feel better about it.

But the gall of that girl is truly amazing. "I had a great time, fucked the dude for hours. Thanks for the VIP lounge! Kisses."

"My point here is that money is no substitute for game. The comedian dude, despite not having any money or real investment into the night, rolled in and walked away with the bang. "

In evolutionary terms, game is just an extension of your ability to survive. That's all it means and what it boils down to. Money, being as it dramatically enhances survival, does the same.

Ultimately money gives you things game doesn't, like direct control over your environment. You can't buy nightclubs, bars or season tickets with game. You can't hire bouncers and security with game. Like I said, money leveraged right is powerful. Stop thinking about it in "either or" terms. They both attract women in different ways.

Money and game:

The relation between them is as simple as x+y=10. There are four possible cases to make sure that you can fuck lots of 9's and 10's consistently.

1)Zero game, very rich
2)Decent game, rich( WSP comes under this category)
3)Good game, average
4)Tight game, bare minimums.

There's no point in arguing which is the right way because all of the above four cases can get you hot pussy. Since this is a gaming forum, most people here favor (3) and (4). WSP is already a millionaire so his style is (2).

It all boils down to " if you have tight game then you don't need money. If you have lots of money then you don't need tight game."

Another important thing is that most people don't get rich just to fuck women. Guys like WSP love their careers(and work in wallstreet) so they got rich quickly. Naturally he is just leveraging what he's having to reduce the effort required.

^^ Great bump been reading this for the past hour. Fucking gold in here

Quote: (04-20-2015 07:22 PM)polymath Wrote:  

A guy with money is a winner, a source of fun, and a free man.

Money can always make you a free man once you've got enough "fuck you" money in the bank.

But being fun and attractive doesn't come automatically with money. You either have it due to good genes and a great upbringing + social circle, or you work hard to develop it (or as much of it as possible) if you weren't born with those privileges.

I'm in NYC and have worked on Wall Street for a number of years. Just like in other fields, you see the full spectrum - on one end there's guys with money that are also cool as fuck; on the other, guys who have absolutely nothing else to offer a woman besides their money.

Money can extend a Player's life duration extensively. When you are in your teens then you need little money - sure it helps as well, but not that much - access to girls and Game is another matter. The same goes in your 20s. (though most guys in their 20s don't know that) The older you get the more you will need it in order to still bang girls of very high caliber.

You can work out all you want, have all the Game you want, but when you are 47 and not rich, then it is unlikely that a 22yo 8-9 will fall in love with you or be highly interested in you for any romantic options.

Nowadays with the added knowledge of excellent nutrition, workout and minor cosmetic procedures a Player can bang top-pussy at age 55 if he is well-off enough. Sure - some bangs will probably drift into the transactional category with increasing age, but frankly that is still better than banging a 45yo in the Blue Pill state.

random thoughts;

I don't buy this notion that rich guys are mostly beta's. Most wealthy men worked their way up from nothing, and have some of the thickest game imaginable, to get them where they are in life. And thats anyone making six figures or above. The sons of immigrants, or from humble beginnings, coming up from no money, no family or no support at home. Most of these guys could get rich again if they became broke. Choosing wrong most likely comes from hubris, an oversized ego, laziness, caring about appearances, or from generally not giving a fuck.

Hank - Thanks for sharing. I wouldn't sweat it. Fuck her.

I've played both sides of this debate. When I grew up, my friends and I ran "pimp" game. We grew up in a place(the hood), where this was big, and read a lot of Iceberg Slim, Donald Goines, etc. We had a crew of girls that bought us everything, drove us everywhere, we stayed at and partied at their houses, ate their food. The girls took care of us. I'm still friends with a lot of them. And that was my approach to women until I got married. I didnt spend anything. I was totally discrete and "mysterious" about who I was, never talked about myself, never went to my place, never disclosed my whereabouts, etc etc. That was the 90's and 2000's.

This is how I approached women, and my approach in general. It worked every time. I have steadily had a GF/LTR/Wife for the last 25 years. Except for one 6 month dry spell.

Being an older guy changes it. You want to show off. You want to get lazy, spending money is the lazy approach. In my opinion its more about who you know, than what you spend. Access at these parties/events/clubs for me is about seeing friends, etc, than dropping money just to go out for fun. I can turn women off easily by talking about myself. It's lazy and somewhere deep down, its your ego talking. Over time the women become bitchy, demanding, shit testing and fat.

In my last LTR, when it went south, I started spending. This was like throwing gasoline on it. Multiple trips, fancy dinners, gifts, flowers, etc. This happened last year. After all of my knowledge with game, this is what I defaulted to, to save it. It was lazy. And driven by my ego. It started off just with what I explained above; total mystery about who I was, didn't go to my place in 4 months of regularly banging, didn't tell her anything about me at all. Then when it went south, I opened up my mouth, and my wallet, and it went to shit.

Long story; all women want the mystery and the intrigue. Spending money and presenting yourself how your ego wants to be seen, absolutely kills that. And by killing her intrigue, you kill her attraction. I dont care how much money you have. From experience you can date 8's without spending money, but with game and a little mystery. I'd love to hear a story about or a blog post about a rich guy that doesn't need to spend a dime on a woman. To me thats aspirational, not obvious.

@Vaun

Would it be fair to say that money made your farm control weak/lazy? It seems like in the failed LTR you were some pimp dude and thats what she fell in love with. Like you said you got lazy and then you started showing total beta tendencies "Look at what I'm buying why won't you love me?" I don't think trying to save a relationship is beta at all. If you care about something enough that is your perogitive. What was beta was when you stopped acting in congruency with the man you were(/the man she thought you were).

"A girl falls in love with who you are. She spends the whole relationship trying to change you into someone you're not. If she succeeds she will dump you for someone who is what you were"
-Dante Nero

Quote: (11-03-2015 05:58 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

My point here is that money is no substitute for game. The comedian dude, despite not having any money or real investment into the night, rolled in and walked away with the bang.

In hindsight, I would have invited a different chick, although this one is fun to hang out with. You win some, you lose some.

Very well put. I've mentioned it before on this forum, but one of the best players I knew was a broke writer living in some dumpy apartment way out in Brooklyn. The 9s and 10s he was bangin - often 10+ yrs younger - would even pay for their own cab rides to and from his place.

Quote: (02-05-2017 01:02 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

Long story; all women want the mystery and the intrigue. Spending money and presenting yourself how your ego wants to be seen, absolutely kills that. And by killing her intrigue, you kill her attraction. I dont care how much money you have. From experience you can date 8's without spending money, but with game and a little mystery. I'd love to hear a story about or a blog post about a rich guy that doesn't need to spend a dime on a woman. To me thats aspirational, not obvious.

This is so on the money. Last year I hooked up with this cute Hungarian chic. We banged, and on her birthday she invited me and a few of her girlfriends to this dumpy dive bar just to chill. Me, being the idiot, suggested we go some place better and I bought them drinks. At one point in the night, she even told me to stop spending money - that back home, it was considered lame for a guy to be buying women drinks. I should've heeded the warning, but the damage had been done; in her eyes I was the beta who had to pay for her attention.

Needless to say, I never saw her again.