Quote: (07-26-2016 05:33 PM)weambulance Wrote:
Quote: (07-26-2016 05:12 PM)Enigma Wrote:
Quote: (07-26-2016 04:13 PM)weambulance Wrote:
Ah, those are two separate points, sorry.
My point about having to fight muslims is they want to kill us, whether they're here or not, and we don't have a choice in the matter. We can't just choose not to engage and expect them to leave us alone. I do not think getting them out of the west will stop their aggression, it will simply change the venue (they'll attack western tourists, perhaps). And if another intelligent Osama bin Laden type shows up wanting to play the long game, there are plenty of ways to attack us at home whether we close the borders or not.
The "we have to fight" thing was not really related to getting them out of Europe.
1. You're never going to get rid of all the Muslims in the world, and it'd be suicide to even try. Ensuring that a Western tourist is never at risk is not worth a potential nuclear apocalypse.
2. 9/11 and most other terrorist attacks could have been stopped if our governments had acted on their intel.
3. 9/11 and most other terrorist attacks would not have been possible without Muslim immigration.
The only reason any of this is happening is because Western governments want it that way. ISIS could be wiped out in a week.
So what you're saying is if the western governments just tried harder to stop them, Islam would be no threat? I strongly disagree.
You're suggesting we should rely on reactive behavior. That is a recipe for disaster.
If we're going to be reactive, how do you propose we stop islamic terrorists from entering our countries once they realize we're screening for an ideology? They're not all idiots. How do you detect an intelligent islamic terrorist who embraces taqiyah? How successful was the US at keeping soviet spies and sleepers out?
With a decent budget and technical competence, they don't even need to get into the country to do serious damage. I can think of a number of ways to kill an assload of Americans without ever passing through customs.
We need to show islam why attacking us is a really fucking bad idea, not just hope we can stop them every time they try. They respect strength and power, not restraint. Our lack of response to their attacks simply emboldens them and reinforces their belief that we are weak, gutless pussies.
Western governments are the ones letting Muslims into Western countries, overthrowing leaders in Middle Eastern countries, allying with and supporting extremist countries like Saudi Arabia, and creating and funding extremists groups.
That is not opinion. That is fact.
To be clear, I'm not saying that the West creates extremism within Islam. I'm saying that they're the ones who allow it to threaten us on any existential level.
And no one is saying not to use violence.
The point is that eliminating all Muslims or eliminating all threats to Westerners is not realistic.
We don't live in Narnia. There is always going to be some level of danger in the world.
Meanwhile, if you simply remove all the Muslims from our countries, properly use surveillance and intelligence, and exercise appropriate military force when necessary, you would reduce the chance of Westerners being killed by Islamic extremists down to practically 0.
Yes, it would still be possible for them to kill Americans, but it would be very difficult and would likely only be in small, isolate attacks. And again, you're not going to completely eliminate violence from the world. It's a pipe dream.
Even if Muslims were *poof* gone from Earth, you'd still have school shootings, gang shootings, drug violence, etc.
![[Image: amiens20cathedral.jpg]](https://hum120.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/amiens20cathedral.jpg)
