Quote: (05-17-2016 04:34 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2016 04:27 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

Who remembers this - http://turnitin.com/ ?

Fuck, I remember that shit, made sure your school writings would pass the plagiarism bar.

The greatest feeling was when you submitted something that was 18% plagiarism, when the acceptable level was 20%.

Well, this is getting interesting.

Personally, I think NTP is probably exaggerating and he's a good bit online persona, but I doubt he's some basement dweller with an above average ability to write and the propensity and time to aggregate/plagiarize/create so much highly repped content.

The truth is probably somewhere in between.

I've enjoyed his posts and gained value from them and I hope he returns to explain himself.

I also agree that this could've been handled through PM or with the moderators as they have a better ability to suss this out going forward.

The holier-than-thou attitude is remarkable coming from such a low-post/new member:

Quote:Quote:

Like I said many here are writers and there is no excuse for this online, in person, anywhere. Every line I type in this forum comes from my mind, through my fingers and on to my keyboard. This kind of BS will destabilize the integrity of this forum of learned men and that is unforgivable. NTP I call you on your BS.

Asking him to address the concerns of plagiarism is great. Calling him bullshit and the smug "every line I type in this forum comes from my mind" attitude is nothing but drama-filled holier-than-thou reaching.

There's no reason to get emotional about this, just address it, make a decision, and move on.

Quote: (05-17-2016 04:35 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2016 02:47 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2016 02:00 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2016 01:54 PM)Onto Wrote:  

If you can't do that then drop your petty witchhunt.

I don't think that's fair.

When a guy purporting to have lived the "RVF Dream Life" rides suddenly into town, lots of younger guys are going to hang on his every word.

It is the job of the older men on this forum to take passing on their experiences, good or bad, seriously.

As such, disruption by fake personas ,created for god knows what purpose, should not be tolerated or given free reign to embellish and plagiarise.

Well said. This is our job and it serves a purpose to help guide the younger guys that are watching/lurking. The next WestIndianArchie or Samseau is probably 19 and lurking. Do we want to show ourselves as incompetent and easily fooled by gulping up anything that comes our way? Do we want to demonstrate sketchy ethics by accepting lying from one dude over truth from another that prefers privacy? Onto is older than you and I, yet we have to explain basic concepts of leadership to him, something our martial arts backgrounds, in regards to discipline, gave us years ago as young men. Why disappointing to see, these lashouts of emotion are to be seen as what they are, but not impede those firm enough with the correct amount of wisdom, to take care of the business at hand.

So now you want to start attacking me?

He is always attacking other members, he has more reps than us so he thinks he can get away with it.

More female drama on this site....

Quote: (05-17-2016 02:51 PM)BortimusPrime Wrote:  

I think it stands to reason that if someone is making enormous posts on a forum frequently, that in of itself implies that the individual in question couldn't possibly be leading the exciting active life they claim.

This actually makes a lot of sense. Great and succinct post about this matter.

Quote: (05-17-2016 04:35 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2016 02:47 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2016 02:00 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

Quote: (05-17-2016 01:54 PM)Onto Wrote:  

If you can't do that then drop your petty witchhunt.

I don't think that's fair.

When a guy purporting to have lived the "RVF Dream Life" rides suddenly into town, lots of younger guys are going to hang on his every word.

It is the job of the older men on this forum to take passing on their experiences, good or bad, seriously.

As such, disruption by fake personas ,created for god knows what purpose, should not be tolerated or given free reign to embellish and plagiarise.

Well said. This is our job and it serves a purpose to help guide the younger guys that are watching/lurking. The next WestIndianArchie or Samseau is probably 19 and lurking. Do we want to show ourselves as incompetent and easily fooled by gulping up anything that comes our way? Do we want to demonstrate sketchy ethics by accepting lying from one dude over truth from another that prefers privacy? Onto is older than you and I, yet we have to explain basic concepts of leadership to him, something our martial arts backgrounds, in regards to discipline, gave us years ago as young men. Why disappointing to see, these lashouts of emotion are to be seen as what they are, but not impede those firm enough with the correct amount of wisdom, to take care of the business at hand.

So now you want to start attacking me?

Suits was taking leadership in the Buddhism thread asking an important question in a careful way.

But you just couldn't wait for NTP's answer because 12 hours later you write this post to NTP that pretty much calls him a liar, veiled as some sort of simple questioning.

And then you fault him for getting pissed off at you.
And then you threaten to post his private PM's to you on the public forum.

That's leadership? Looks more like an insatiable lust for forum blood.

I gave NTP an early rep, perhaps one of his first. I can forgive if he was plagiarizing complex and technical information in his politics and money posts. However, misrepresenting information on women and travel would not be excusable. Let's at least allow the man to respond before we dig his grave for him.

On the topic related to meeting in person. It is not necessary for a member to meet others in person in order to make contributions. I understand the privacy concerns, although I think they are exaggerated in some cases. I know several members with successful careers and families of their own who have met other members while taking the necessary precautions.

It is foolhardy to believe and claims of conquest, money, or lifestyle unless you have direct personal experience with such a person. On a personal note, the friends that I have made through the Forum have been the best part of my experience here. Related to credibility, this is in fact, the only way to go about it.

Respect to Suits for staying above this thread. His posts in the Buddhism thread were respectful and reasonable

Poor taste by OP starting this thread. This would have been resolved just fine in Deep Forum with a lot less fanfare.

It should be obvious to those who have been here awhile that meeting another respected member would be worthwhile for this community and for yourself. This forum is full of high value men, the type of man we should strive to be around whenever possible. When you stay behind a screen things like this happen. If NTP had met even one vetted guy we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Keyboard jockies are a dime a dozen unfortunately

Quote: (05-17-2016 04:52 PM)getdownonit Wrote:  

Poor taste by OP starting this thread. This would have been resolved just fine in Deep Forum with a lot less fanfare.

The problem with that is it can easily be buried. No use ruining a thread (Buddhism) with this topic, and conversely - starting a new thread in the deep forum wouldn't work because someone would complain to have it moved to this forum.

As someone who hasn't PM'd NTP, rarely ventures into the Deep Forum or get into really deep political discussions I would say people need to take stock of what he has brought to members here.

Others have already stated his worth to them. If he has copy and pasted articles then that is what he does, maybe not all the time. Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs yet raised multi millions of $$ for good causes, does that stand for nothing because he took some PEDs?

Not really.

But I dont

Quote: (05-17-2016 05:05 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

As someone who hasn't PM'd NTP, rarely ventures into the Deep Forum or get into really deep political discussions I would say people need to take stock of what he has brought to members here.

Quote: (05-17-2016 05:05 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs yet raised multi millions of $$ for good causes, does that stand for nothing because he took some PEDs?

Not really.

Tell that to his reputation, as well as bank account.

In all honesty though he seems like a guy with good intentions. I won't write slanderous material about him while the guy isn't even online and hasn't replied to any of the accusations.

This is the Internet. There's no way of regulating disinformation. Whenever I read something that contradicts my experience, I just move on. I've spent years in the game, and I disagree with a great deal of things that are scattered around the forum. I'll trust my own experience over something I read online, but there's no need to call them out or start fights.

^ There is definitely a reason to call it out.

High value contributions are appreciated, blatant plagiarism and potentially completely false stories are not.

If he comes out with and just admits that he didn't reference his sources and provides reasonable explanations for his other dubious statements e.g. his daily swimming regime, then personally I'd forgive those mistakes simply based on the amount of valuable info he's brought to the forum and intelligent discussions he's started.

I do concur with Pitt that the not wanting to meet people is suspect and puts people into a certain category as far as I am concerned. I totally respect anonymity. The weed man can meet one to exchange money for an eighth but highly repped RVF member can't meet? No one is asking for real name or face, you can even wear heavy face paint with a thick hoodie and speak with a constant grunt if need be. If members probe and ask what's behind the paint and you tell them to get stuffed, I get it. I personally don't ask chatters, for their real names, I am happy to call them Mr Purple the entire time and be fine with it. I find it incredulous that a member can be in the 100s when it comes to rep points accumulated and no one has met him and everyone is cool with that.

The strength of this forum in my opinion is game and travel. Game theory implemented by real people who go outside, not basement samurais with expensive video consoles. Travel accounts by real people who have visited the location first hand go there, not theorists regurgitating summaries that they gleaned from Youtube vids. Those areas (game and travel) at a certain point have to be vouched for by real people. I believe we have members here from every corner of the globe. Even some guy hit me up from Nigeria and was asking me about game and I really didn't think these principles applied out there. this means, wherever you go, you can meet up someone from the forum.

When I meet chatters, I'm not out to judge performance, looks or muscle development. It's merely to meet a kinsman in mind and put a human to it. Imagine if, I, Moma, after all these years was just some ginger fat chick with an active Youtube account and a voice modulator to account for the timbre in the voice! Would you still want me to keep my points?! Meeting the person reduces the likelihood of catfish info. The internet is home to catfish and this forum would be no exception.

I feel that a members points should be capped when it comes to game and travel UNLESS someone has met you. For politics and memes, you can go bananas, I don't necessarily care about the authenticity of the source.

NTP's posts seemed suspicious to me for awhile, not so much for the breadth and depth of the subject matter (which was certainly impressive, but within the realm of possibility for an intelligent, well-read and experienced man) but for the sheer volume of long-winded posts he kept making. The only word that comes to mind is autistic. I just kept wondering: why the fuck is he posting so much? Does he not realize how strange he's coming across by doing so? It's like if you ask a guy on the street corner for the time and he goes into a twenty minute monologue starting with the invention of the sun dial. I also didn't understand why a guy who claimed to be sailing around the world and swimming 20,000 yards a day and banging 20-somethings was wasting his time writing up highly-detailed posts on often obscure topics. It struck me as incongruent, to say the least.

The evidence presented is more than sufficient to prove NTP has, at the very least, been plagiarizing a large percentage of his posts, in addition to indulging in some extraordinary exaggerations or outright fictions. He has been using the credibility he gained from these posts to ingratiate himself with numerous posters on the forum. This raises dangerous possibilities. Who is this guy, exactly? If he's willing to engage in deception of this magnitude to gain the trust of the forum, what kind of game is he playing? He could easily be some kind of infiltrator or mole seeking to gain the trust of the community in order to obtain the personal information of members for doxxing purposes. Or perhaps he's just another Gmanifesto or Christian McQueen: a hype artist trying to build a branded online persona for marketing purposes. Or maybe he's simply a run of the mill pathological liar, in which case much of what he said might be true, but he also couldn't resist the urge to throw in a bunch of bullshit in order to sound more impressive.

Regardless of who NTP really is or what his intentions were in making these deceptive posts, I think that in order to preserve the integrity of the forum Roosh has no choice but to ban him. This is not a forum for fabulists to come and bullshit us with copy pastes and outrageous fictional accounts. This is a place for real men to congregate, engage in discussion and provide advice to one another. Given the largely pseudonymous nature of the forum, where for the most part we are only identified by our usernames and avatars, the content of our posts is all we have to judge each other by. If a man has proven himself to be grossly deceptive in his posting, it calls into question his judgment, his intelligence (did he really think no one would notice this?) and most importantly his character. Men who engage in such egregious and public deception of this type are simply not to be trusted. They have lost all credibility, permanently. And if the RVF keeps him around to continue bullshitting then the forum itself loses credibility. If we don't stand up and say that posting plagiarized content and fictional accounts is something we simply will not tolerate, then you can be assured we'll see more and more of it. And if we knowingly allow unknown individuals to infiltrate our community by gaining trust through deceptive means, then we deserve to suffer the inevitable negative consequences that result.

The line in the sand must be drawn. You do not get away with disrespecting the community with this kind of deliberate, ongoing deception. He made the choice to repeatedly lie and plagiarize, and now, for the good of the community, we must make the choice to expel him from our ranks. To do otherwise is to sanction his deceptions, cheapening the forum and calling into question all the great content posted here. We cannot allow that. The RVF is greater than any single poster, and it is the integrity and good will of the members of the community that make this place so valuable. We cannot allow anyone to threaten that, and allowing NTP to stay would be a major blow to the integrity of the forum.

Quote: (05-17-2016 05:05 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

As someone who hasn't PM'd NTP, rarely ventures into the Deep Forum or get into really deep political discussions I would say people need to take stock of what he has brought to members here.

Others have already stated his worth to them. If he has copy and pasted articles then that is what he does, maybe not all the time. Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs yet raised multi millions of $$ for good causes, does that stand for nothing because he took some PEDs?

Not really.

Those of us who are into sports and were into it a lot more in the earlier times, we all knew who was doping and not. Let's say the general mindset of the forum here is like the general public, who believe that Arnold Schwarz got that body au naturel with just milk, meat and plenty of rest. Are you saying we should assume that all posters are fabricating the info's sources until proven otherwise?

Quote: (05-17-2016 05:05 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

As someone who hasn't PM'd NTP, rarely ventures into the Deep Forum or get into really deep political discussions I would say people need to take stock of what he has brought to members here.

Others have already stated his worth to them. If he has copy and pasted articles then that is what he does, maybe not all the time. Lance Armstrong used performance enhancing drugs yet raised multi millions of $$ for good causes, does that stand for nothing because he took some PEDs?

Not really.

I'm afraid that's a false equivalence. In your comparison, Lance Armstrong is involved in two separate, distinct endeavors. Might as well say "Robin Hood was a thief, which is bad, but he was generous and gave to the poor to alleviate their suffering, which was good." The two are only slightly connected. Whereas the discussion here is about different components of the same endeavor: spreading information. If someone tells you stuff and seems genuine, then you catch them lying later on, are you not going to be suspicious about the other stuff they told you?

A more apt comparison would be if Lance Armstrong was telling everyone about his amazing training regimen and recommending they use it, without disclosing that he actually relied on PEDs to get to the top. In other words, in that scenario he would be lying by omission.

Also, I'm amazed how many people here think plagiarism is just no big deal.

Anybody who's spent years in the game will know who is telling the truth simply by whether or not their posts seem like an accurate depiction of red-pill reality. If you know certain things to be true hard facts, set in stone, and someone comes along challenging those beliefs, they can't have too much real-world experience.

I agree with Moma on members who refuse to meet. You really have to be self-important to an almost delusional degree to think your anonymity is threatened by other posters on RVF. (Or that you're important enough for people to dox...give me a fucking break) I mean look at that guy from Montreal, he was revealed to be an RVFer to the people in his city (which is an SJW stronghold) and as far as I know, he's still doing fine.

Thoughtgypsy, as NTP's biggest defender in the buddhism thread, please can you elaborate on the following 2 quotes you made last month.

Quote: (04-19-2016 01:40 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

I worked at a NASA center during the development of the Ares-V and Ares-I-X under the Constellation program before it was cancelled.

thread-55250...pid1281000

Quote: (04-20-2016 07:07 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

You'd be surprised how many college students rotate through NASA as a result of their internship and CO OP programs. Most impressive of all are the Test Pilots.

thread-55250...pid1281598

I remembered I read about something similar happening recently. Just throwing this out there:

Quote:Quote:

DW: When I did my due diligence on the document, my biggest concern, which I published on your forum, was that in section 33, there is a series of eight sentences regarding the World Economic Forum.

When I was concerned about whether the document was legitimate, I looked up World Economic Forum on Wikipedia.

The sentences on Wikipedia were almost exactly the same as what is in the legal document.

BF: Sure! The guy writing the legal document says, “All right. We know the Davos World Economic Forum [is involved], because there is a tape recording of a conversation with Giancarlo Bruno, who is the head of financial services at the World Economic Forum, [discussing it].”

So we have evidence, forensic evidence, that they are linked.

But then [we say] OK, so what is the World Economic Forum, anyway?

So the lawyer goes to Wikipedia and cuts and pastes eight sentences. Sure. That’s what people do. Even lawyers writing up legal documents.

Not saying I agree with the practice, but it's plausible that some do.

Quote: (05-17-2016 05:38 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Thoughtgypsy, as NTP's biggest defender in the buddhism thread, please can you elaborate on the following 2 quotes you made last month.

Quote: (04-19-2016 01:40 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

I worked at a NASA center during the development of the Ares-V and Ares-I-X under the Constellation program before it was cancelled.

thread-55250...pid1281000

Quote: (04-20-2016 07:07 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

You'd be surprised how many college students rotate through NASA as a result of their internship and CO OP programs. Most impressive of all are the Test Pilots.

thread-55250...pid1281598

This shouldn't arouse suspicion (plagiarism, on the other hand, yes definitely). Lots of students intern at NASA, or for them through a contractor. I was one of them - not technically a NASA employee, but I interned at a contractor who sent me to work at a NASA complex for 6 months.

Don't know about the test pilot thing though.