Quote: (03-28-2016 09:05 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

Getting blown up on easter is indeed some awesome first class citizenship status. Fuck off with this. There's plenty of first hand accounts of Christians in even relatively moderate places like Lebanon who actually get heavily discriminated against and face death threats in private. There's always official government policy these muslim countries put up to save face from criticism but what happens behind closed doors and in society is a different matter altogether..

ahh well ok. I am saying they are sharia rules that were implemented during the ottoman empire. Since world war 1 when they were destroyed there has been no country that is implementing sharia rules anymore so lets get that straight. that horse left the cart long time ago. All these countries are run by wierdos and pseudo jews. Even saudi arabia....you think the king even prays?..its all crap. as far as the christians in lebanon is concerned....yep agree with you. Find out who funds hezbollah .....hmm same ppl who funds ISIS perhaps. same with hamas.

Quote: (03-28-2016 09:05 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

Also, the reason why a lot of buildings were protected is that it was wasteful to level them.....

chuckle, yeh good one. wasteful. haha. Go and tell 10 kids that they can knock down a building and tell me if they refuse because it is wasteful.

Quote: (03-28-2016 09:23 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

The western value of not getting lynched for saying bad things about a guy who hasn't breathed air in 1300 years would be a start.

lynching someone for saying something bad about someone they love is also a western value to many people also.
Plus I dont think it is a western value anyway....say something that is against the mainstream and watch how many people lynch you. If you are famous and say something against the mainstream watch the media take you to pieces until they destroy you.

Quote: (03-28-2016 08:58 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Who do you think protected all the churches and synagogues in these countries during the ottoman empire (over 700 years). Assuming you are originally from Syria then you will know that In Syria the city of Palmyra has the oldest churches in history where the christians still talk in aramaic. They are pretty much destroyed now by ISIS (US israel, cia, mossad woteva)....so how is it that a country ruled by islamic leaders kept these churches protected all this time?? and now a bunch of rouges destroyed them.

It's fine if you are completely ignorant about dynamics in the middle-east but please don't make humiliating assumptions like this in public. Assad is an alawite, they are essentially muslim by name only. Assad's father had thwarted the muslim brotherhood to come into power and dominate a majority sunni population.

You don't even understand the current situation in Syria. You don't understand why ISIS wants to kill other "muslims" they justifiably (under Islam) view as heretics.

Your arguments are nothing but the usual rationalization muslims use on ignorant listeners, they are verifiability wrong for anyone who has done basic research on Islam.

Dhimmis are second class citizen. Jizzyah can be more than 50% of your earnings. Syrian christians first hand experienced it and its documented. No repair allowed on old churches, no building of new ones, christians were not allowed to carry weapons such as swords and knives, if a church is burning you couldn't put the fire down. I went into details about this in one of my older posts.

To paraphrase, dhimmis have to pay taxes and submit until they are "disgraced, humiliated, and subdued"

Muslims have no interest in a rational conversation, talking to you is futile but for other reading I suggest watching this:

Quote: (03-28-2016 09:28 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

ahh well ok. I am saying they are sharia rules that were implemented during the ottoman empire. Since world war 1 when they were destroyed there has been no country that is implementing sharia rules anymore so lets get that straight. that horse left the cart long time ago. All these countries are run by wierdos and pseudo jews. Even saudi arabia....you think the king even prays?..its all crap. as far as the christians in lebanon is concerned....yep agree with you. find out who funds hezbollah .....hmm same ppl who funds ISIS perhaps. same with hamas.

Quote: (03-28-2016 09:05 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

Also, the reason why a lot of buildings were protected is that it was wasteful to level them.....

chuckle, yeh good one. wasteful. haha. Go and tell 10 kids that they can knock down a building and tell me if they refuse because it is wasteful.

This guy is full of shit....not surprised.

Is this guy a troll or retarded for real?

Doodlebug, why are you in Australia if the Middle East is so great? Move back there and be welcomed open-armed into their much tolerance environment, lots of jobs, endless pussy, political and societal stability, better lifestyles, and elaborate welfare systems. I hear it's so great in the Middle East that Americans and Euros are flooding over the borders by the millions just to get in, sight unseen, with no guarantees of housing arrangements or jobs. You better hurry on your way back, man.

This dude clearly likes to think of himself as a "moderate muslim".

Which is scary.

Quote: (03-28-2016 10:06 PM)Hades Wrote:  

Is this guy a troll or retarded for real?

Doodlebug, why are you in Australia if the Middle East is so great? Move back there and be welcomed open-armed into their much tolerance environment, lots of jobs, endless pussy, better lifestyles, and elaborate welfare systems. Their oligarchs and political factions don't fuck the people over like they do in America and Europe. They're not racist or intolerant either.

middle east sucks now. like I said after world war 1 and the ottomans were overthrown it went to the dogs, why else did a lot of people pack their bags.

The discussion here is what is going on in Brussels and around the world and how can we stop it. I am giving you a muslim perspective not a moderate muslim perspective who cries 'they not real muslims so lets hold hands'. That stuff is nonsense mainstream media crap.

Quote: (03-28-2016 10:17 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

This dude clearly likes to think of himself as a "moderate muslim".

Which is scary.

no, like I said I am muslim as you can get.
beard....prays 5 times. thinks non-believers will go to hell. and hopes trump wins the election.
confused yet?

and for the record....yes I do believe that gays that stick their captain manhood in other peoples backsides should be punished. No captain manhood deserves that abuse. if you gonna do it....do it without telling us.
I do believe that the man should be the leader of the house and the wife should be submissive to him.
I do believe that a man can marry up to 4 wives and a woman can only have 1.
I do believe that a man can divorce a wife but a woman cannot unless a judge agrees.
I do believe that a wife would serve her family best if she stayed home and looked after the castle while the man does what he needs to do outside and provide for the family.
Can't think of the other western feminist values that does not agree with Islam but more will come to me.

Quote: (03-28-2016 10:06 PM)Hades Wrote:  

Is this guy a troll or retarded for real?

Yeah, anyone who claims Sharia isn't used anymore (when it is in multiple countries and regions), or that Christians have "first class citizenship" (when in a country like Pakistan, they are constitutionally prohibited from holding several governmental positions, including president, prime minister and...yes you guessed it...the country's Sharia court which has the power to veto any law it wants), or that Islamic societies that uphold and enforce blasphemy laws are just as free and tolerant as western societies that haven't had such laws in centuries, or that Islam was never spread by force when it has been spread by conquest in the majority of areas in which it now predominates, is either totally brainless or a troll.

However, remember this dishonest, erroneous rhetoric well. From the events of the past few years, it's becoming very clear that large sections (also the loudest and most influential sections) of Islamic populations simply will not take responsibility or even acknowledge what's happening in Islam today...no matter what happens, they will only fabricate excuses and blame everyone else.

Doodlebug, I'm not going to write a long reply addressing each of your points because it would be a waste of time for me and for you because it's clear that we have very different opinions on this whole thing and none of us would change his mind, let's just say I disagree with you and I think you're either knowingly lying or the brainwashing you guys get is so pervasive that you just can't see reality anymore.

I do appreciate you coming on here and offering a real muslim perspective though, it's always good to have at least some sort of dialogue in these disturbing times even if we disagree.

With that being said, even though we can and should be civil and engage in some, hopefully fruitful, exchange of ideas, make no mistake, I consider you and your people my enemies.

I have no doubt if you had the power to do so you and your brothers would gladly change the west into your islamic vision and subjugate and control us, westerners, and by the same token, you can be sure if I had the power to do so I would gladly and swiftly expel your culture and your people from the west.

Quote: (03-28-2016 08:58 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Syrianguy,
I am as muslim as you can get, beard n all. So ask me anything and I promise I will be completely open with you. I will be first to say there are lot of things that Islam values which totally contradict western values (and I agree with them all)

And yet you live in a western nation with all the countless benefits that this entails, benefits created by the people who have those values you disagree with.

Have muslims ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, some of the reasons our societies are better than yours, so much better that muslims actually prefer to live here instead of in their original muslim birthplaces is that our values and ideas are better and if we were to change our cultures to accommodate you these societies wouldn't be that great anymore, they would resemble more the places you ran away from? Muslims...

Quote: (03-28-2016 10:49 PM)Saga Wrote:  

Yeah, anyone who claims Sharia isn't used anymore (when it is in multiple countries and regions), or that Christians have "first class citizenship" (when in a country like Pakistan, they are constitutionally prohibited from holding several governmental positions, including president, prime minister and...yes you guessed it...the country's Sharia court which has the power to veto any law it wants), or that Islamic societies that uphold and enforce blasphemy laws are just as free and tolerant as western societies that haven't had such laws in centuries, or that Islam was never spread by force when it has been spread by conquest in the majority of areas in which it now predominates, is either totally brainless or a troll.

However, remember this dishonest, erroneous rhetoric well. From the events of the past few years, it's becoming very clear that large sections (also the loudest and most influential sections) of Islamic populations simply will not take responsibility or even acknowledge what's happening in Islam today...no matter what happens, they will only fabricate excuses and blame everyone else.

Christians do not have 1st class citizen ship in many of the countries reference. I never said they did. I said sharia would implement this if used. No country implements it...the countries are run by elites there is no justice. take Saudi arabia for example, if you are muslim but not a national born saudi you are 2nd class citizen...sharia laws do not apply. Pakistan have no sharia court, forget it. I'm just stating the obvious. Syria is run by a non-muslim (Assad)....there is no sharia there. Anyway what else can I tell you, believe what you want. Why would anyone say it is the fault of islam for something that the west has control over. At least be logical.

Quote: (03-28-2016 11:27 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Christians do not have 1st class citizen ship in many of the countries reference. I never said they did. I said sharia would implement this if used. No country implements it...the countries are run by elites there is no justice. take Saudi arabia for example, if you are muslim but not a national born saudi you are 2nd class citizen...sharia laws do not apply. Pakistan have no sharia court, forget it. I'm just stating the obvious. Syria is run by a non-muslim (Assad)....there is no sharia there. Anyway what else can I tell you, believe what you want. Why would anyone say it is the fault of islam for something that the west has control over. At least be logical.

I think you're giving the West a lot of credit - pretty much the whole middle east is 99% muslim and every culturally enriching Easter celebration shifts the balance further, if the people weren't fine with what was going on then they could use their enlightened principles of democracy and free speech to change that.

Quote: (03-28-2016 11:05 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I do appreciate you coming on here and offering a real muslim perspective though, it's always good to have at least some sort of dialogue in these disturbing times even if we disagree.

With that being said, even though we can and should be civil and engage in some, hopefully fruitful, exchange of ideas, make no mistake, I consider you and your people my enemies.

I figured as much, but well....dont believe the hype. thats all i'm saying.

Quote: (03-28-2016 11:05 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I have no doubt if you had the power to do so you and your brothers would gladly change the west into your islamic vision and subjugate and control us, westerners, and by the same token, you can be sure if I had the power to do so I would gladly and swiftly expel your culture and your people from the west.

Well I disagree with this. While I do hope that all of us become muslim (again I am being frank with you). The teachings we have is that you cant do that by force and it has never been done like that in history. If I had the power and I show you injustice then I will just land myself in hell. What more can I tell you.

Quote: (03-28-2016 11:05 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

And yet you live in a western nation with all the countless benefits that this entails, benefits created by the people who have those values you disagree with.

Have muslims ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, some of the reasons our societies are better than yours, so much better that muslims actually prefer to live here instead of in their original muslim birthplaces is that our values and ideas are better and if we were to change our cultures to accommodate you these societies wouldn't be that great anymore, they would resemble more the places you ran away from? Muslims...

Again I will be frank with you. I have previously already listed some of the western beliefs that I do not agree with and I am sure you agree with me at least on some of those. That being said, the western countries currently have better justice than any islamic countries. Hence why people from other countries want to come here. That justice is falling though, year by year they are getting eroded. The world is more or less tanking.

Quote: (03-28-2016 11:29 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I think you're giving the West a lot of credit - pretty much the whole middle east is 99% muslim and every culturally enriching Easter celebration shifts the balance further, if the people weren't fine with what was going on then they could use their enlightened principles of democracy and free speech to change that.

but problem is there is no free speech. Go to saudi and say something against the king and see what happens. Go to Egypt and say somethng against the army and see what happens.

Quote: (03-28-2016 09:40 PM)syrianguy Wrote:  

Quote: (03-28-2016 09:28 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

ahh well ok. I am saying they are sharia rules that were implemented during the ottoman empire. Since world war 1 when they were destroyed there has been no country that is implementing sharia rules anymore so lets get that straight. that horse left the cart long time ago. All these countries are run by wierdos and pseudo jews. Even saudi arabia....you think the king even prays?..its all crap. as far as the christians in lebanon is concerned....yep agree with you. find out who funds hezbollah .....hmm same ppl who funds ISIS perhaps. same with hamas.

Quote: (03-28-2016 09:05 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

Also, the reason why a lot of buildings were protected is that it was wasteful to level them.....

chuckle, yeh good one. wasteful. haha. Go and tell 10 kids that they can knock down a building and tell me if they refuse because it is wasteful.

This guy is full of shit....not surprised.

Syrian guy, even congress knew this crap way before we did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb3vF6Vcjr0

Quote: (03-28-2016 11:27 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Christians do not have 1st class citizen ship in many of the countries reference. I never said they did. I said sharia would implement this if used. No country implements it...the countries are run by elites there is no justice. take Saudi arabia for example, if you are muslim but not a national born saudi you are 2nd class citizen...sharia laws do not apply. Pakistan have no sharia court, forget it. I'm just stating the obvious. Syria is run by a non-muslim (Assad)....there is no sharia there. Anyway what else can I tell you, believe what you want. Why would anyone say it is the fault of islam for something that the west has control over. At least be logical.

So Christians are 2nd class citizens (at best) in many Islamic countries. That neatly answers your question as to why westerners might be concerned when they see Islamic influence growing in their communities and nations.

Saudi Arabia's legal system is based fully on Sharia. Do they often treat certain Muslims badly? Yes they do, but so did the Ottoman Empire, so did the Abbasid Caliphate and plenty of other Islamic governments. It doesn't alter the fact that their legal system is drawn from Sharia.

Pakistan does have a Sharia court with immense legal and political power. The entire reason Pakistan was founded was that a large amount of Muslims in the Indian subcontinent demanded a purely Islamic society and refused to accept secular, pluralistic India. Then, that Islamic society fought a horrifying civil war with itself in 1971 when Bangladesh declared independence. Again, when you ask why westerners don't want growing Islamic influence in their countries, there's another clear answer.

Quote: (03-28-2016 09:33 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

lynching someone for saying something bad about someone they love is also a western value to many people also.
Plus I dont think it is a western value anyway....say something that is against the mainstream and watch how many people lynch you. If you are famous and say something against the mainstream watch the media take you to pieces until they destroy you.

While our minorities are triggered by microaggressions and exploited by liberals as a voting bloc through the promotion of dysgenic welfare programs, Christian minorities in Islamic nations are blown to bits on Easter. I don't care if it's only a small percentage of the population that does it, the fact that the majority either
A)doesn't give enough of a shit to condemn it
B)secretly approves of it
is enough for me to completely write off living in a predominately Islamic nation. We might have racists, but they are not organized and they definitely do not have the approval of the majority of folks living here.

As far as insulting someone that millions of Westerners love, no one ever got murdered in a Western nation for saying the Beatles suck dick.

I told my mother over Easter that the current Pope is a faggot, a traitor and that I'm more Catholic than he is, yet I still breathe free air.

I've renounced Catholicism, but I can still walk into church whenever I want. Somehow the priest can talk for an hour without saying that heretics should be put to death.

However, any criticism of Mohammed is off limits and there are millions of Muslims willing to get violent over it. Try it with your folks and see what happens. We have freedom of speech, not freedom from speech. Someone would get thrown in prison if I offended them and they decided to stab me in response.

People get mad if you say the wrong thing in our society, but I won't get stoned to death by a crowd of people for saying "Women are nothing but fuck holes, homosexuality isn't real and Hitler had the right idea." I might get doxxed or fired from my job, but that's not the same.

There's more, but I'm going to go smoke a cigarette, then drive down to the bar that society permits to exist, get too drunk to drive, then have my girl drive me home and get a blowjob without wondering if all of that was haram or not.

Maybe doodlebug has a point. Every time I go on the news and a terrorist attack happens, none of the attackers are real muslims and everybody is quick to point that out. Meanwhile all those spergy white guys who haven't gone to church a day in their lives are found out to be radical Christian extremists.

All these virtue signalling "good" Muslims make me sick. Don't you guys see that you act exactly like the left?
Brainwashed all the same.
Maybe it is time you take a deep look what kind of medieval death cult you support. And don't tell me you can not find another religion with the same spiritual deepness. You are adults now, you can use your reason to choose what to believe in and what to support. Oh and police your extremists. Doing nothing means you are supporting their actions.

Quote: (03-27-2016 03:43 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

CNN focuses on supposed Nazi salutes:

Anyone in Belgium can confirm these are indeed Nazi salutes and not some kind of sports thing?

According to an eye-witness report, the manifestation was peaceful and had nothing to do with the far right. However, some far left radicals that were present on the square started to provoke them after which the police needed to protect them. Then the far left faggots and the media made up the story about right wing violence.

Link (in Dutch): http://www.voetbalnieuws.be/news/208761/..._hooligans

A rough translation of the most important parts:
There are hundreds of mourners present, the quietness of the place is captivating. I see flags everywhere, coming from various countries, from Belgium to Morocco. Some people sing songs of hope, amidst the enormous amount of laid down flowers. What I have noticed right away is a specific group that stands right on the stairs. In the beginning, they seem like people with positive messages to me, such as “Stop the Hat” and "United we are strong." But it soon becomes clear to me, unfortunately, that they are also there to spread their propaganda in the sense of the extreme leftist ideology. I myself am a left-adjusted person, but cannot stand that people try to use such a tragedy for their political program, left or right! I ignore them further.

After mourning for half an hour, I think it is time to return home, besides my son also begins to get bored and want to play at home on the playstation. But suddenly, coming from the Brussels North train station, we hear a lot of noise. I take my son on the shoulders and decide to see what is going on. What I see is an impressive spectacle. An army of at least 600 men, most dressed in black, pull toward the square. Some of them are lighting torches. Many people around me don’t know what is going on, and neither do I. Did the come to quarrel here? Why this very striking demonstration? Wasn’t it forbidden to protest today? It immediately strikes me that these are real hooligan types. Built, noisy, most of them with a shaved head.

Just before they arrive at the square, this gang passes a group of soldiers who are responsible for our security. Immediately the hooligans begin to applaud en masse ass a sign of respect, something that is visibly appreciated by the military. When they arrive at the square itself, all of them are immediately silent. It is immediately clear that they have come to mourn, not to quarrel, not to promote their political stance. No, everyone in this remarkable group is silent and wants to mourn, just like the rest of us. The only difference is that these people are dressed differently.

The front of the group carries a banner “Casuals against terrorism.” The silence is broken by loud chants; "We hate Isis" vibrantly echoes through the streets of Brussels. Many of us are impressed by the spectacle. An old couple starts to clap for them. My son does not know what's going on but is looking with open mouth. But suddenly the situation changes. A particular person with glasses on, clearly under the influence of drugs, tries to remove the banner shown by the hooligans. This person is at first pushed back, but after he tries again tries to tear the banner, he receives a punch and he falls to the ground. I think violence is never good, but this person has really asked for it.

But then it begins. The group of left radicals on the stairs starts to provoke the hooligans and sing songs to them; they are called racists and fascists. Which is extremely ridiculous, given the fact is that there are also multiple brown skinned guys among this group. After a few minutes the hooligans decide to remove the far left troublemakers in a firm but non-violent way from the stairs (the individuals walking on the flowers were a little clumsy). The police intervene and evacuate the extreme leftists for their own safety. Now the trouble begins. People who just arrived believe that it is an action of the extreme right, partly because the leftists who are now among the newly arrived people spread this message. I try to intervene and say that's not true, but suddenly receive a blow to the face. My son starts crying. I turn but no-one to see ... a cowardly act and why? Because I say the truth? A television crew from the VRT (national broadcasting institution), who barely stands at three meters from me, clearly sees this scene, but they prefer to keep filming the hooligans.

I decide to go home. On the radio I hear the media mentions the far-right demonstrators who caused the trouble. But I have seen myself that this is not true. The provocation clearly came from the extreme left side. Unbelievably, the police then charges against its own people who stand up for our country and values. This action had nothing to do with racism. That was obvious! My stomach turns when I see how the media lies to the masses and attempts to marginalize and demonize this protest. There are people who want to defend our country and they are bashed for it. Hooligans who would normally beat up each other, now come fraternally together and stand up for their fatherland. It would be a good story and can be a positive message, but unfortunately, I realize that we live in a bullshit society. What a shame! Disappointment prevails, but I want to reiterate my respect to this “Casuals against terrorism”. And thank you! The next time I walk with you.

So again, shameless lies by the media to shame, marginalize and criminalize people who want to stand up for their own country and culture.

Doodle, I walked away from Islam more than a decade ago, I haven't looked back.

Indians/Pakistanis do tend to adapt better than any other Islamic culture.

However you have to see the fallacies these guys are pointing out.

Another point is, no Muslim country wants to wipe out extremism (for the most part).

Another issue is western intervention in the Middle East - without a doubt if the west left the Middle East alone, extremists would STILL lash out against the west.

A male relative of mine gave up the whole prayer Islam thing, he told me, his connection to god is personal, he doesn't need to follow a bible to trust in god or pray to him.

Most Muslims stay silent on the fact of Islamic Extremism - they don't want to fight against, maybe they fear it, maybe they've been told to be victimized so much that they really believe it.

Reform can only happen from within, which in all honestly will never happen - especially between the different sects of Islam - they've been killing each other for decades.


I used to think like you and try and defend Islam, then you throw in politics, and terrorist activities - you see the truth in that religion.

Quote: (03-28-2016 10:20 PM)doodlebug786 Wrote:  

Quote: (03-28-2016 10:06 PM)Hades Wrote:  

Is this guy a troll or retarded for real?

Doodlebug, why are you in Australia if the Middle East is so great? Move back there and be welcomed open-armed into their much tolerance environment, lots of jobs, endless pussy, better lifestyles, and elaborate welfare systems. Their oligarchs and political factions don't fuck the people over like they do in America and Europe. They're not racist or intolerant either.

middle east sucks now. like I said after world war 1 and the ottomans were overthrown it went to the dogs, why else did a lot of people pack their bags.

The discussion here is what is going on in Brussels and around the world and how can we stop it. I am giving you a muslim perspective not a moderate muslim perspective who cries 'they not real muslims so lets hold hands'. That stuff is nonsense mainstream media crap.

Translation: After WW1 allied forces abolished slavery in the Ottoman Empire so our countries went to shit.

Exactly the same as Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, without their slave labor they'd be swallowed by the sand once again.

Quote: (03-29-2016 02:13 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Exactly the same as Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, without their slave labor they'd be swallowed by the sand once again.

The very idea of fat, lazy, and usually diabetic gulf arabs working in the hot sun building their own buildings or doing their own engineering is hilarious to say the least.

Reading certain comments in this thread, is it any wonder that the Middle East (excluding Israel) has only won 8 Nobel prizes? Tiny Israel has won twelve.

Quote: (03-29-2016 02:25 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

Quote: (03-29-2016 02:13 AM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Exactly the same as Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, without their slave labor they'd be swallowed by the sand once again.

The very idea of fat, lazy, and usually diabetic gulf arabs working in the hot sun building their own buildings or doing their own engineering is hilarious to say the least.

And it wouldn't happen - they simply don't have the capability or intelligence to keep their toys running. They'd have no choice but returning to riding around on their camels and feuding with neighbouring tribes.