Please do not refer to "the one percent." Using that term is playing into the hands of the very people you think you are attacking. The one percent consists of over 3 million people, 99% of whom are your dentists, surgeons, independent contractors, plumbers and other hard working regular folks who not only aren't "rich," but who provide far more value to society than they earn in return.

Your urologist is not flying to Davos every month to conspire over quantitative easing or the best way to offshore another 10% of the manufacturing workforce while spiking the number of H1B visas and settling more Somalis in Minnesota. You only need to make around $350,000 gross to land in the insidious "1%", and these guys get sucked absolutely dry by the government. Your "1%" income after taxes is going to be around $180k a year, which isn't even enough to own a home in a good neighborhood in many American cities. To put these guys in the same bucket as your Lloyd Blankfeins and George Soroses is missing the point entirely. They have far more in common with a truck driver than they do with the economic elites who are fucking our countries in the ass.

Quote: (06-03-2015 10:28 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Please do not refer to "the one percent." Using that term is playing into the hands of the

Your urologist is not flying to Davos every month to conspire over quantitative easing or the best way to offshore another 10% of the manufacturing workforce while spiking the number of H1B visas and settling more Somalis in Minnesota. You only need to make around $350,000 gross to land in the insidious "1%", and

Sidenote: What is it with the Somalis in Minneapolis? Is it someone's idea of a cruel joke to make these people chase the american dream in about the exact opposite climate they came from?

^^It is a cruel joke, but it's a joke that's not being played on the Somalis but rather on the Minnesotans.

Quote: (06-03-2015 10:28 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

You only need to make around $350,000 gross to land in the insidious "1%", and these guys get sucked absolutely dry by the government.

Only?

Quote:Quote:

Your "1%" income after taxes is going to be around $180k a year, which isn't even enough to own a home in a good neighborhood in many American cities. To put these guys in the same bucket as your Lloyd Blankfeins and George Soroses is missing the point entirely. They have far more in common with a truck driver than they do with the economic elites who are fucking our countries in the ass.

While I agree that they are tax slaves, you must understand that even 180K is more than 99.9% of what anyone in the world makes.

The fact that they cannot afford the best housing is indictative of other problems:

- Income taxes are bullshit.
- House prices are inflated due to QE.
- Property taxes ensures the poor cannot build houses on empty land for themselves and condems them to homelessness.
- The common man must rely on the government dole in order to afford anything which means the government must continue to tax this country to death.

This vicious cycle is quite literally choking America to death. There is no reason why a man cannot build a house out in the middle of nowhere and raise his family there. There is no reason why home prices are so high despite no one buying any of them. There is no reason why a man who works 80 hours a week sees 40 hours of his labor disappear.

If the people never revolt, then they will die slaves.

Quote: (06-03-2015 06:56 PM)Darius Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2015 06:10 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

I just disagree that it is getting better and rosier just because you can create a company faster nowadays and make money over the internet.

It is rosier for those that can create a company and make money over the internet.

It isn't for those that think this is the end of the world.

I can differentiate between anecdotal and personal evidence in that regard and real life. You do realize that I work over the net in a highly individualized fashion - effectively making money online?

Still - I don't think that most people can do it. It is similar to an Amway pyramid supply chain - it grows until there are too many Amway sellers in an area and then most of them are just losing money. In China that happened very fast with Amway as everyone started selling. Amway riots ensued - heh - and the government banned Amway from selling their products in MLM fashion there. It achieved a similar market saturation within a few years while it took decades in the US.

The same concerns most online businesses. The internet sooner or later concentrates actual turnover more, despite creating some new jobs or offering some opportunities.

The internet is becoming a curse now for companies actually selling tangible goods online. Unless your slagging T-shirts and working of sheer volume you have exosed yourself to even more costs when you actually have to get to the point where you expand out of your garage. The logistics, warehouse, etc to hold and house product with no garuntee that customer will keep it. You spend money to set up and ship 5 units to a buyer and they chnage thier mind and return 4, you just lost money two times on 4 units on that transaction versus having a brick and mortor and having the buyer come in and physically take product away themselves with more assurance of a firm sale as they can see and feel the product in person.

If you live in a big major city, if you have desirable product, and you are smart to get pass BS zoning then you can have a cheap pop-up shop or micro store for in many cases as cheap as $100 a day in rent and daily costs. If your making high demand product that is a few sales a day to break even on costs.

The new place I work is going to clear $2 million in sales and its simple take out food out of a run down storeftont they cleaned up good and rent for cheap. They started as a food truck of course, but did not do any marketing before they opened the real storefront. They let word of mouth speak for them and got a lot of good reviews from our newspapers and city blogs. But, even with all of that nobody is thriving working there aside from the bosses who will cut big cheques at fiscal year end..maybe (they have 15-18 employees). They helped me out when I was down and there's some hot girls there so its more lifestyle for more more than anything else.

My bosses talk about thier sales but haven't factored in that you gotta break some off for your staff if you don't want high turn around just paying a buck more then minimum wage. This is the lauded small business many in this forum talk about but nobody working there is able to thrive working there full-time. All the staff is either young and a dependent, from a rich family, or has a 2nd or 3rd job, nobody is living off that restaurants wage.

In the end brick and mortors still have value. Many large corps like Saks and The Bay see huge chunks of money blown on online sales, both are reinvestmenting money into their storefronts. Top flight shopping centers are expanding, there is a demand for the upper crust who have a little money to catar to them in the physical store in big top flight cities. These are not going away anytime soon.

Real Estate is a great investment. Buy up a cheap duplex or quadplex, live in one unit and rent out the others. Use a VA loan for 0$ down, or find a cheap wholesale property and use a Lowes/HomeDepot CC at 0% interest to fix the property up and flip it.

Renting's for morons. You like to travel? Rent your place out while your gone. Don't have a lot of money? Wholesale a few houses and find a hard money lender.

Do what the rich do. Use other people's money to make you money.

Quote: (06-03-2015 10:28 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Please do not refer to "the one percent." Using that term is playing into the hands of the very people you think you are attacking. The one percent consists of over 3 million people, 99% of whom are your dentists, surgeons, independent contractors, plumbers and other hard working regular folks who not only aren't "rich," but who provide far more value to society than they earn in return.

Your urologist is not flying to Davos every month to conspire over quantitative easing or the best way to offshore another 10% of the manufacturing workforce while spiking the number of H1B visas and settling more Somalis in Minnesota. You only need to make around $350,000 gross to land in the insidious "1%", and these guys get sucked absolutely dry by the government. Your "1%" income after taxes is going to be around $180k a year, which isn't even enough to own a home in a good neighborhood in many American cities. To put these guys in the same bucket as your Lloyd Blankfeins and George Soroses is missing the point entirely. They have far more in common with a truck driver than they do with the economic elites who are fucking our countries in the ass.

Can you list the American cities where $15,000 per month after taxes will not afford you a house in a good neighborhood?

Quote: (06-04-2015 01:39 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Still - I don't think that most people can do it. It is similar to an Amway pyramid supply chain - it grows until there are too many Amway sellers in an area and then most of them are just losing money. In China that happened very fast with Amway as everyone started selling. Amway riots ensued - heh - and the government banned Amway from selling their products in MLM fashion there. It achieved a similar market saturation within a few years while it took decades in the US.

The same concerns most online businesses. The internet sooner or later concentrates actual turnover more, despite creating some new jobs or offering some opportunities.

If all online businesses were selling amway or MLM you would be correct.

However they aren't.

Quote: (06-04-2015 01:15 PM)Darius Wrote:  

Quote: (06-04-2015 01:39 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Still - I don't think that most people can do it. It is similar to an Amway pyramid supply chain - it grows until there are too many Amway sellers in an area and then most of them are just losing money. In China that happened very fast with Amway as everyone started selling. Amway riots ensued - heh - and the government banned Amway from selling their products in MLM fashion there. It achieved a similar market saturation within a few years while it took decades in the US.

The same concerns most online businesses. The internet sooner or later concentrates actual turnover more, despite creating some new jobs or offering some opportunities.

I all online businesses were selling amway or MLM you would be correct.

However they aren't.

Zel, come on, you didn't just liken actual business to MLM. Business online deals with competition just as every other brick and mortar does. You need to find a niche and lead that niche for you to be largely successful.

I am a partner in offline businesses as well as online, and it was easier than ever to get them underway. You can either act as if the sky is falling, or you can take the action required to get ahead in life. There are always new products and services to accompany them, there are always problems to be solved.

Quote: (06-04-2015 01:39 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

I am a partner in offline businesses as well as online, and it was easier than ever to get them underway. You can either act as if the sky is falling, or you can take the action required to get ahead in life. There are always new products and services to accompany them, there are always problems to be solved.

Again - misunderstanding here - plenty of opportunities available, but no way in hell will it be possible for 30%+ of the workforce to become entrepreneurs. That is simply an impossibility. Your points are actual anecdotal. Personally neither you nor me have trouble opening businesses or working online to make money, but I just don't see it happening for the majority of the population - this simply cannot and will not happen.

Quote: (06-04-2015 01:58 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

no way in hell will it be possible for 30%+ of the workforce to become entrepreneurs. That is simply an impossibility... Personally neither you nor me have trouble opening businesses or working online to make money, but I just don't see it happening for the majority of the population - this simply cannot and will not happen.

And thank god for that my friend.

Quote: (06-04-2015 01:58 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Again - misunderstanding here - plenty of opportunities available, but no way in hell will it be possible for 30%+ of the workforce to become entrepreneurs.
...
but I just don't see it happening for the majority of the population - this simply cannot and will not happen.

There is nothing stopping them aside from mindset. It isn't that these people are physically incapable of starting a business. It's that there mindset prevents them from doing it.

If they were to change their mindset and their habits they could start a business.

Quote: (06-04-2015 05:26 PM)Darius Wrote:  

Quote: (06-04-2015 01:58 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Again - misunderstanding here - plenty of opportunities available, but no way in hell will it be possible for 30%+ of the workforce to become entrepreneurs.
...
but I just don't see it happening for the majority of the population - this simply cannot and will not happen.

There is nothing stopping them aside from mindset. It isn't that these people are physically incapable of starting a business. It's that there mindset prevents them from doing it.

If they were to change their mindset and their habits they could start a business.

Mindset + habits = who you are

That's just it. Most people will never change enough to be able to start a business. I'm with Zelcorpion here. Expecting 30% of the workforce to develop the habits and mindset needed to succeed as entrepreneurs is just not going to happen.

Quote: (06-04-2015 11:10 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  

Mindset + habits = who you are

Which can be changed.

If people couldn't change you would still be crawling around and sucking on your mom's tit.

Quote: (06-03-2015 10:31 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

Quote: (06-03-2015 10:28 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

Please do not refer to "the one percent." Using that term is playing into the hands of the

Your urologist is not flying to Davos every month to conspire over quantitative easing or the best way to offshore another 10% of the manufacturing workforce while spiking the number of H1B visas and settling more Somalis in Minnesota. You only need to make around $350,000 gross to land in the insidious "1%", and

Sidenote: What is it with the Somalis in Minneapolis? Is it someone's idea of a cruel joke to make these people chase the american dream in about the exact opposite climate they came from?

I hate to sound conspiratorial but a lot of these recent settlements seem to be in areas "lacking in diversity."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-06...obs-report

^ Zerohedge discovers new stat: Most new jobs going to immigrants, including illegals.

As the elites displace the natives in this country, they fund their profits with foreign slave labor. Then they increase the minimum wages which incentivizes hiring more illegals under the table to avoid the minimum wage laws which further displaces the natives.

Quote: (06-07-2015 07:59 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-06...obs-report

^ Zerohedge discovers new stat: Most new jobs going to immigrants, including illegals.

As the elites displace the natives in this country, they fund their profits with foreign slave labor. Then they increase the minimum wages which incentivizes hiring more illegals under the table to avoid the minimum wage laws which further displaces the natives.

In other words, the "foreign-born" catogory includes both legal and illegal immigrants unfortunately, the BLS is unable, or unwilling, to distinguish between the two.

The foreign born are persons who reside in the United States but who were born outside the country or one of its outlying areas to parents who were not U.S. citizens. The foreign born include legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents such as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants. The survey data, however, do not separately identify the numbers of persons in these categories.



I understand the point about illegal immigrants. However this study is biased since it puts in the same basket apples and oranges.
I hope you understand that some people like legally-admitted students who followed the same courses as the natives, had the same internships and paid the same fees (often they pay more, since they do not always get a grant from the host country) and went through the same hardships have the same right to benefit from the recovery.

Quote: (06-03-2015 09:36 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

You call it satire. Most people call him an arrogant prick.

And we all know where being 'most people' gets you in life.

Quote: (06-03-2015 02:17 PM)Darius Wrote:  

It has never been easier to start a business. Technology has made it so that all the roadblocks to starting a business have been removed.

This forum is a community full of entrepreneurs.

Apex fallacy.

Quote: (06-07-2015 08:11 AM)mikado Wrote:  

I understand the point about illegal immigrants. However this study is biased since it puts in the same basket apples and oranges.
I hope you understand that some people like legally-admitted students who followed the same courses as the natives, had the same internships and paid the same fees (often they pay more, since they do not always get a grant from the host country) and went through the same hardships have the same right to benefit from the recovery.

Your are again defending immigration as if it is a holy cow. And again I state what responsibility a country has to offer jobs to the rest of the world? It's even irrelevant whether those applicants fit all the qualification - why should a country allow for example 50 million Indian and Chinese engineers compete for all the jobs?

Now that graph is a bummer - it is not "profiting from the recovery" which is wrong, the graph rather displays something else. It shows quite blatantly that most jobs were minimum wage or sub-minimum wage created and anyone willing to lower their demands would get a leg up.



And yes - it is brutal, when 3 times more jobs for foreign born Americans have been created vs. native born.



And here you see where those glorious jobs are created:



Mostly low-tier and government jobs.

Quote:Quote:

And yes - it is brutal, when 3 times more jobs for foreign born Americans have been created vs. native born.

Why is that brutal? They are both equally American (ignoring illegal immigrants). Unless you're implying that they are not?

Quote: (06-07-2015 10:41 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

And yes - it is brutal, when 3 times more jobs for foreign born Americans have been created vs. native born.

Why is that brutal? They are both equally American (ignoring illegal immigrants). Unless you're implying that they are not?

I am sorry, if you don't see it problematic. In that case the nation state has no sense or meaning. Let all Western countries open up all borders and allow 3 billion of the poorest world citizens into the US & EU. If you cannot understand that a nation has to have a responsibility to cater to their citizens first and immigrants second, then there is nothing to be discussed.

It's like Sweden where immigrants who in some instances hate the local Swedes get fast-track approval for state sponsored housing or even government jobs (bypassing local Swedes who have to wait 2-3 times longer or fit higher criteria).

Quote:Quote:

I am sorry, if you don't see it problematic. In that case the nation state has no sense or meaning. Let all Western countries open up all borders and allow 3 billion of the poorest world citizens into the US & EU. If you cannot understand that a nation has to have a responsibility to cater to their citizens first and immigrants second, then there is nothing to be discussed.

Nowhere did I say that America should fling open the doors and welcome anyone who wants to join. I asked you whether native-born and foreign-born Americans are equally American. It's apparent that you don't think so, but I didn't want to put words in your mouth.

A nation has a responsibility to its citizens first, but that would be all citizens.

Quote: (06-07-2015 10:24 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

Quote: (06-07-2015 08:11 AM)mikado Wrote:  

I understand the point about illegal immigrants. However this study is biased since it puts in the same basket apples and oranges.
I hope you understand that some people like legally-admitted students who followed the same courses as the natives, had the same internships and paid the same fees (often they pay more, since they do not always get a grant from the host country) and went through the same hardships have the same right to benefit from the recovery.

Your are again defending immigration as if it is a holy cow. And again I state what responsibility a country has to offer jobs to the rest of the world? It's even irrelevant whether those applicants fit all the qualification - why should a country allow for example 50 million Indian and Chinese engineers compete for all the jobs?

Now that graph is a bummer - it is not "profiting from the recovery" which is wrong, the graph rather displays something else. It shows quite blatantly that most jobs were minimum wage or sub-minimum wage created and anyone willing to lower their demands would get a leg up.



And yes - it is brutal, when 3 times more jobs for foreign born Americans have been created vs. native born.



And here you see where those glorious jobs are created:



Mostly low-tier and government jobs.

You nailed it: it's low-tier and low paid jobs. For which you do not need that many qualifications, and can be accomplished by any immigrant coming off a boat (exaggerating a bit).

Engineers who spent 5+ years in the western world, paid their tuition fees, paid taxes because of their internships (I won't get anything from what I paid for my internships even though I contributed to the country), got top ranks at the engineering school deserve for me at least the same chances for a job as natives, who did not manage to score better than them. They jumped through the same competitive hoops and came at the top. It's not like they came from a boat and just took "their jobs". I understand your point for the FOB, but I am talking about people who are just far away from the FOB (in terms of education, wealth, attachment to the host country).
The guys I am talking about, are those looking to ACTUALLY integrate, and they will often go out of their way to contribute (which might end up in them being ostracized by their peers of the country of origin, because they are "too white", or have become "oreo" ).


Fields like engineering (good example from you, by the way) are crucial and critical, and shouldn't hire people just because of their skin or nationality, but because of their skills. I understand your point for McDonalds servers or construction workers for example, especially since people taking these positions are the most susceptible to be hurt by the economic crisis. However one should not be given a pass just because he is white/French/American etc, if he is outclassed by a wide margin by a foreigner in his field IN TERMS OF SKILLS.

It would be like a guy complaining that girls in his neighbourhood/country like foreigners too much, though their game is quite better than his and he just can't get even close to their level.
It's a jungle out there, bro. At a point, the best should take it.