[Simeon_Strangelight]

(06-07-2015 11:00 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Fields like engineering (good example from you, by the way) are crucial and critical, and shouldn't hire people just because of their skin or nationality, but because of their skills. I understand your point for McDonalds servers or construction workers for example, especially since people taking these positions are the most susceptible to be hurt by the economic crisis. However one should not be given a pass just because he is white/French/American etc, if he is outclassed by a wide margin by a foreigner in his field IN TERMS OF SKILLS.

It would be like a guy complaining that girls in his neighbourhood/country like foreigners too much, though their game is quite better than his and he just can't get even close to their level.
It's a jungle out there, bro. At a point, the best should take it.

Again you do not address the actual issues. This has no comparison to Game or banging chicks. An economic system and the job market is the lifeblood of a country, destroying it wipes out livelihoods - banging a few or even many young girls in their party years matters little.

In order to work in a given country you need permissions and licences. And no - even if you meet the criteria, it should not be allowed to be equal.

A good example are international investment banking degrees like CFA or CAIA. Most of the graduates are Chinese and Indian - in mainland China and India. Shall we now open all borders to those qualified individuals, so that 5 million of them may compete for banking jobs? If you say yes to that, then you are obviously biased and not logical. Even superior qualifications are not a reason to do that. At the very least it would create a massive wage pressure in those countries - also at high level jobs and not only low and mid level ones.

[Peregrine]

Quote:

A good example are international investment banking degrees like CFA or CAIA. Most of the graduates are Chinese and Indian - in mainland China and India. Shall we now open all borders to those qualified individuals, so that 5 million of them may compete for banking jobs? If you say yes to that, then you are obviously biased and not logical. Even superior qualifications are not a reason to do that. At the very least it would create a massive wage pressure in those countries - also at high level jobs and not only low and mid level ones.

Poor example. Passing the CFA is not an investment banking core competency, nor would I call either of those designations IB degrees.

[aSimpNamedBrokeback]

(06-07-2015 11:00 AM)mikado Wrote:  

It would be like a guy complaining that girls in his neighbourhood/country like foreigners too much, though their game is quite better than his and he just can't get even close to their level.
It's a jungle out there, bro. At a point, the best should take it.

It would be like a guy complaining that the girls in his neighborhood like foreigners because they settle for the 300lb fatties with shitty attitudes. Its not the best that's taking the jobs, its the cheapest.

[mikado]

(06-07-2015 11:39 AM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

(06-07-2015 11:00 AM)mikado Wrote:  

It would be like a guy complaining that girls in his neighbourhood/country like foreigners too much, though their game is quite better than his and he just can't get even close to their level.
It's a jungle out there, bro. At a point, the best should take it.

It would be like a guy complaining that the girls in his neighborhood like foreigners because they settle for the 300lb fatties with shitty attitudes. Its not the best that's taking the jobs, its the cheapest.

For low-tier jobs, sure. I don't think it is for the high-paying ones. Firstly, there are not that plenty of foreigners who reach that level. Secondly, it is a pain in the ass to get a " titre de séjour salarié" in France. You must earn 1.5xSMIC (SMIC is the minimum salary), employer must prove the other French people who candidated were not qualified enough to hold it, you must have 5 years of presence in France (2 if you got a Master), the job must be directly related to your degree. The employer must pay a fee , and you cannot work until you got your authorization, or hasn't run out of hours allowed per year for students (964, ~6 months full-time).

1.5*SMIC ain't that low for a starting engineer. A lot of engineers, even whites/natives, settle for a bit above the SMIC, especially given the economic crisis and unemployment in France. But a foreign engineer must reach that 1.5xSMIC. The "foreign engineers are cheap" argument isn't thus that credible.

Don't get me started on the naturalization process (a natural follow-up, if you work several years in France). Since the economic crisis, the major point of rejection for many cases is the lack of a stable employment situation (meaning a CDI, aka permanent contract), or a CDI not enough paid (that 1.5xSMIC limit kicks again). The process can be so long that the company, if it's not already established and experienced in handling foreigners , just gives up.

Zelcorpion doesn't understand that it is ALREADY not equal. A foreigner engineer can't just be a basic engineer if he hopes to get jobs interviews, and ultimately a CDI. You won't even be CONSIDERED for a job interview by a lot of firms, because they just don't want to handle the hassle of the status change. Hell, FRENCH of foreign origin can be denied interviews because of their skin color/accent.
If a foreign engineer is taken, it's because
-there weren't that many candidates to the post
-he was exceptionnally skilled, comparatively to the other candidates

For me you can only blame yourself if you are an engineer and no one wants to hire you. Other engineers followed exactly the same courses as you. You were obviously just not good enough, since companies always need engineers, and a lot of them are recruited every year. Learn some other skills (programmation languages for example) and force them to hire you.

This is exactly why I upped my game during my two last years in engineering school.The city I am in is one with the most engineers in France, so the competition is high. I learned other programmation languages, networked a lot , got really good grades (sorry for bragging) that made my teachers vouch for me for my internships, where I worked even more than the legal hours required to go further than what I was expected to do -which I did with great success). Why the fuck should I be deprived of getting a contract in a good company whereas I performed way better than half of the guys in my situation? Especially since I paid my way to the same schools as them, did not have a grant from the French government and passed the same contests and exams? If natives from an European/American country consistently perform worse skill-wise than foreigners, everything else being equal, then the natives are the one to blame.

The game analogy applies. If we consider the natural alphas as the natives and the foreigners as the RooshVforum lambda guy with average looks/status who wasn't born with game. Alphas are getting the goods today, and contribute to destroying the society too with all the pump and dump they give, and the way they raise the standards of women. Should they be entitled to get women just for their inborn looks/physical attributes ? Of course not. They will get the women most of the time (same with natives vs foreigners) and the best of them alphas will always outperform the best of ugly or short guys, if the two have similar levels of game. However , if that average guy gets in shape, ups his status, wealth, game etc, and gets the best girls when the two are out, should the natural guy complain about not getting preferrential treatment? Of course you would laugh at him and tell him to improve his game.

If you got a degree in a mid or high-tier field and you are consistently left out in favor of immigrants who have way greater skills than you, then get better. Life isn't fair, but so is the jungle.

[Samseau]

(06-07-2015 08:11 AM)mikado Wrote:  

(06-07-2015 07:59 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-06...obs-report

^ Zerohedge discovers new stat: Most new jobs going to immigrants, including illegals.

As the elites displace the natives in this country, they fund their profits with foreign slave labor. Then they increase the minimum wages which incentivizes hiring more illegals under the table to avoid the minimum wage laws which further displaces the natives.

In other words, the "foreign-born" catogory includes both legal and illegal immigrants unfortunately, the BLS is unable, or unwilling, to distinguish between the two.


I understand the point about illegal immigrants. However this study is biased since it puts in the same basket apples and oranges.
I hope you understand that some people like legally-admitted students who followed the same courses as the natives, had the same internships and paid the same fees (often they pay more, since they do not always get a grant from the host country) and went through the same hardships have the same right to benefit from the recovery.

It's relevant because immigrants, legal or illegal, are less likely to reinvest their earnings back into the local economy. They are more likely to send the money back home for other things.

This ties back into the first post of this thread: Why aren't Americans spending? And the answer is: Americans have no jobs, the jobs are being given to wage slaves from abroad. These wage slaves then spend the money in other countries where they can leverage the dollar against their local economies.

Meanwhile the people of these host countries languish as the best years of their life pass by, as women get no husbands and lose out on their fertility.

End result: home countries go broke, immigrants (illegal or legal) GTFO when this place has been strip mined and enters anarchy and all you have left are the natives battling it out for the scraps while the population plummets from lack of family formation.