[misterstir]

^Precisely. The monkey picture stuff is racist imo. Fights in east europe, well it seems in east europe all you have to do is be picking up enough girls with half decent game and that's enough to get you alot of dirty looks from complete strangers. Picking up someone's girlfriend is a guaranteed fight in East Europe imo. No one can ever accuse them of being pussies who will let some foreign guy come and bang all their girls. You might bang plenty of girls there, you have a good chance, but if you normally roll out dolo, imo its a matter of time before you get into a fight. Its not necessarily a race thing.

Some countries may be better or worse, I'd like to see some kind of thread on this. Which places are you less likely to get into fights in East Europe.

[Arado]

(01-29-2012 12:09 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

You have to understand the mindset of people in the EE countries. Not only are they not melting-pot countries and without much immigration (like the U.S., UK, and France), but these people were locked behind the Iron Curtain for fifty years with little freedom, exposure to other cultures, or movement (except for the Russification process of moving Russians into those countries).

The populations of these countries are very homogeneous. In fact, in many of these EE countries, the ethnic natives do not consider the Russian population part of their national self. So, for example, the Baltic people do not consider the Russian population as Lithuanians, Latvians, or Estonians. They recognize them as citizens, but not as part of their ethnic nationality. So, it is a foreign concept for them to think of someone as African-American or even Irish-American.

Well, Russia is a complex picture. In the political tension right now there's a big disagreement within the opposition over whether they want the nationalist (pro ethnic Russian party) to have an active role (as they got 15% of the vote in December, so are quite formidable).

http://rt.com/politics/putin-immigration...ticle-421/

In this article, which Putin wrote last week, he argues that the concept of a "Russia," is NOT ethnically based, and it is based on patriotism towards Russia instead. The essential question is whether a non ethnic Russian is a true Russian. Putin says yes, the nationalists say no. Who will win?

In communist time, they were all Soviet Citizens, and race was irrelevant. With the trend towards nationalism(in most of the world, just look at the challenges of building state post Arab spring and the difficulty of integrating immigrants in Europe) after communism was discredited, ethnicity plays a larger role in national identity.

This is a very hot topic here and how this race issues play out in Russian politics will be an interesting topic for discussion on this forum.

[Tail Gunner]

(01-29-2012 12:13 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

(01-29-2012 12:09 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

So, it is a foreign concept for them to think of someone as African-American or even Irish-American.

So by their definition who are the real Americans? The Mayflower Descendants?

That is an irrelevant question. The point is that they have no concept of hyphenated-Americans because they do not have such a concept within their frame of reference regarding their own country. They consider someone a Ukranian only if they are ethnically Ukranian.

[misterstir]

So ethnic Russians in Ukraine are not considered ukranian?
Are you saying they only consider native americans to be americans in Ukraine?

[speakeasy]

(01-29-2012 01:06 AM)ao85 Wrote:  

In communist time, they were all Soviet Citizens, and race was irrelevant. With the trend towards nationalism(in most of the world, just look at the challenges of building state post Arab spring and the difficulty of integrating immigrants in Europe) after communism was discredited, ethnicity plays a larger role in national identity.

This is a very hot topic here and how this race issues play out in Russian politics will be an interesting topic for discussion on this forum.

Really makes me appreciate a place like Brazil even more. Somewhere that most people are mixed and people of any skin color are considered Brazilian.

[pobreinvestidor]

(01-29-2012 02:40 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Really makes me appreciate a place like Brazil even more. Somewhere that most people are mixed and people of any skin color are considered Brazilian.

The one fact that everyone ignored is that the girls is enjoying it.
And this reflects reality, as anyone with skin a little darker skin does really well there. The quality of the girls is also nice especially because it is a poor country and they dont have money to go to fast food places...

By the way the monkey in the picture is wearing a Brazil tshirt lol

[Deb Auchery]

I walked out of my apartment to go to the shop last night, it was -20, I was planning on making it quick.

I came across this in the streets, I couldn't believe my eyes, I thought they had found a witch or something.

Later turns out that it was the annual Neo-Nazi march in Lviv, and they were chanting racist and Nazi stuff.

I take back anything I said about there being no skinheads in Lviv (I think they just don't shave their heads, too damn cold here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONMqMa5uP...KqLtAAINtM

[Travel85]

Roosh,

I know you keep pooh-poohing the possible threat against non-whites in Russia, and now Ukraine it seems, but if this video above really evinces the situation on the ground, I besiege you to be very careful in your pursuit of your pussy paradise in Ukraine.

I say this because I admire you and you have helped me a lot, in more ways than you know, in too many ways to count. Thus, I want you to be cautious
when you go to Ukraine, so you can leave the place in one piece.

And to Deb Auchery, thanks for sharing this with us.

[Moma]

(01-28-2012 12:16 AM)The Duke Wrote:  

Yeah they are a bit racist in Ukraine (Kharkiv at least), but then you will sometimes see a black Nigerian guy with a white girl there. If you are black, you'll probably do better in Serbia. Serbia is not ex-soviet, but in many ways similar to ex-soviet countries. The visual quality of girls in Serbia is essentially as good as Ukraine, less blond but taller. Blacks are very, very rare in Serbia. I never once saw a black African in Serbia -- only a couple of blacks from Canada or USA. I got to know two of them and they were loving it in Serbia. The only blacks I met in Kharkiv were from Nigeria and I heard others speaking French. I met no American blacks in Kharkiv.

Compared to Nigeria, Ukraine is like Canada. Besides, Nigerians go wherever the money is at, they don't give a fcuk about the other shyt.

[speakeasy]

(01-30-2012 09:24 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

I walked out of my apartment to go to the shop last night, it was -20, I was planning on making it quick.

I came across this in the streets, I couldn't believe my eyes, I thought they had found a witch or something.

Later turns out that it was the annual Neo-Nazi march in Lviv, and they were chanting racist and Nazi stuff.

I take back anything I said about there being no skinheads in Lviv (I think they just don't shave their heads, too damn cold here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONMqMa5uP...KqLtAAINtM

That was a hell of a lot of Nazis marching for a city of not even a million people. And that's only what was caught on video since the clip shows neither the beginning or end of the procession. Could anyone imagine a town in America the size of Louisville having that many skinheads marching the streets?? Seriously, WTF is wrong with those people? It's not like there are even that many non-whites in Eastern Europe anyway. So what the hell are they so mad about?

What's equally disturbing about the footage I see coming out of the FSU is not just the amount of neo-nazis, but the seeming lack of any vocal opposition to them; even though Hitler killed Slavs by the millions. If skinheads paraded through the streets of LA, NYC or DC, they'd get their asses beaten.

[Excelsior]

(01-30-2012 09:24 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

I walked out of my apartment to go to the shop last night, it was -20, I was planning on making it quick.

I came across this in the streets, I couldn't believe my eyes, I thought they had found a witch or something.

Later turns out that it was the annual Neo-Nazi march in Lviv, and they were chanting racist and Nazi stuff.

I take back anything I said about there being no skinheads in Lviv (I think they just don't shave their heads, too damn cold here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONMqMa5uP...KqLtAAINtM

...yep. That's about what I thought.

Enjoy Ukraine, you guys! I think I'll just keep my black ass away from such hateful pastures and place it firmly within the friendlier ones (of which, fortunately, there are many). Ain't no wimminz on Earth worth the risk of running into that on a dark night.

[mikeymike]

(01-30-2012 06:49 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(01-30-2012 09:24 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  

I walked out of my apartment to go to the shop last night, it was -20, I was planning on making it quick.

I came across this in the streets, I couldn't believe my eyes, I thought they had found a witch or something.

Later turns out that it was the annual Neo-Nazi march in Lviv, and they were chanting racist and Nazi stuff.

I take back anything I said about there being no skinheads in Lviv (I think they just don't shave their heads, too damn cold here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONMqMa5uP...KqLtAAINtM

...yep. That's about what I thought.

Enjoy Ukraine, you guys! I think I'll just keep my black ass away from such hateful pastures and place it firmly within the friendlier ones (of which, fortunately, there are many). Ain't no wimminz on Earth worth the risk of running into that on a dark night.

qft! I was on the fence and pipelining has been ridiculously easy so I figured I'd head over but after this thread, fuck it... I can find women anywhere, I may not be black but I sure aint white and this sounds like anything but white aint right.

[The Duke]

That video is fucked, but I think you guys are reading into this too much. Don't let a few racists scare you away from a reasonably safe place with gorgeous women. I would bet a white guy in South America has a higher chance of being a crime victim than a black guy in Ukraine.

[Deluge]

(01-31-2012 12:56 AM)The Duke Wrote:  

That video is fucked, but I think you guys are reading into this too much. Don't let a few racists scare you away from a reasonably safe place with gorgeous women. I would bet a white guy in South America has a higher chance of being a crime victim than a black guy in Ukraine.

A white guy in South America isn't going to get assaulted for being white, he's going to get robbed and pickpocketed for being a "rich Western tourist". A black guy in Ukraine may have a slimmer chance of being a victim, but if he is the crime inflicted is much worse.

Nonetheless if you go with a friend and don't piss off any of the local dudes at night it would be great. That's what I'm going to do once I achieve location independence (I look Indian).

[Excelsior]

(01-31-2012 12:56 AM)The Duke Wrote:  

That video is fucked, but I think you guys are reading into this too much. Don't let a few racists scare you away from a reasonably safe place with gorgeous women. I would bet a white guy in South America has a higher chance of being a crime victim than a black guy in Ukraine.

It comes down to this.

You say Ukraine is reasonably safe and the women are gorgeous. As a black man, I have to ask myself two questions: a) would it be safe for me given who/what I am and b) would the women be open to me?

Judging from all I've read and seen regarding both the Ukraine and Russia, the answers to both of these questions seem quite negative. The black students there (and in Russia) have nothing good to say and interracial dating seems most frowned upon due to racism (again, judging on all I've read and some accounts from Ukrainian and Russian folks I've met over time, both on this forum and elsewhere).

Granted, I could still go, assuming I was willing to do a ton of legwork and build a strong, trustworthy network beforehand. But why bother when a much more minority-friendly Poland, Croatia and Scandinavia (and Western Europe in general, really) are right there?

Gotta pick your battles, man. I love Slavic women, but I love my safety more. Ain't no pretty Ukrainian wimminz worth my life (or enduring any fear for it).

For the record (since this is one of those infamous race threads) I express no animosity here for this. I accept it for what it is-there are plenty of places suited well for someone like me, and the Ukraine is just not likely one of them. That's cool-such is life.

[speakeasy]

(01-31-2012 01:36 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

It comes down to this.

You say Ukraine is reasonably safe and the women are gorgeous. As a black man, I have to ask myself two questions: a) would it be safe for me given who/what I am and b) would the women be open to me?

Judging from all I've read and seen regarding both the Ukraine and Russia, the answers to both of these questions seem quite negative. The black students there (and in Russia) have nothing good to say and interracial dating seems most frowned upon due to racism (again, judging on all I've read and some accounts from Ukrainian and Russian folks I've met over time, both on this forum and elsewhere).

Granted, I could still go, assuming I was willing to do a ton of legwork and build a strong, trustworthy network beforehand. But why bother when a much more minority-friendly Poland, Croatia and Scandinavia (and Western Europe in general, really) are right there?

Gotta pick your battles, man. I love Slavic women, but I love my safety more. Ain't no pretty Ukrainian wimminz worth my life (or enduring any fear for it).

For the record (since this is one of those infamous race threads) I express no animosity here for this. I accept it for what it is-there are plenty of places suited well for someone like me, and the Ukraine is just not likely one of them. That's cool-such is life.

Russia gets the World Cup in 6 years from now. You'll be in your mid 20s at that time and probably making decent money by then. People will be flying in from all over the world(and that includes many non-whites). I'm sure the government will have all the skinhead and nationalist shit on lock so as not to have an embarrassing incident in front of the globe. Just like Rio is trying to clamp down on the most problematic favelas going into WC '14. That might be a good time for you to visit. Should be all kinds of parties going on and there will be plenty of other non-whites there at the time. I'm sure cops will be out in mass making sure shit stays safe.

[Luckystar]

I've been to both Russia and Ukraine, and you don't need to worried about hate violence. You may find the racist vibe very unappealing though.

I talked to a lot of outsiders in Kiev and Kharkov. Africans, Arabs, Turks, Indians, Chinese - I'd say 90% said they hated the place. Racism being the biggest complaint.

To be honest, I think outsiders tend to be hypersensitive to racism and use it as a crutch (ex. immigrants in Sweden), but in Russia/Ukraine it is very real.

[Roosh]

Athlone: I never pick a place based on how other guys who seem similar to me do. Individual variance destroys race in the end. You can have a dark as night guy picking up a hottie in Estonia, even though the people there are generally anti-black (but not to the point of violence).

[Excelsior]

(01-31-2012 03:41 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Athlone: I never pick a place based on how other guys who seem similar to me do. Individual variance destroys race in the end. You can have a dark as night guy picking up a hottie in Estonia, even though the people there are generally anti-black (but not to the point of violence).

The violence frightens me more than the reaction of the girls, to be honest.

Speakeasy pointed out that a lot will be going on in Russia/Ukraine within the coming decade. We'll see if that creates any change.

[Roosh]

I've been in a lot of places, and met a lot of guys, but I've never heard of anything race-related beyond minor bar-room scuffles when the foreign guy attacker was just a drunk cockblocker. Just the other night a guy bigger than me tried to CB me because I was a "dirty Spanish". But I kept an eye on him and nothing happened.

If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't even know that there is race-related violence. This forum has tons of black members... can you identify one that has been attacked in a foreign country? All stories are second-hand. Funny thing is, I know many FIRST HAND stories of gringos getting jacked in South America, mostly white guys.

Fearmongering in general, not just with travel, really bothers me. If you investigate each case, you'll find them to have little substance.

[Princeton]

(01-31-2012 06:32 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I've been in a lot of places, and met a lot of guys, but I've never heard of anything race-related beyond minor bar-room scuffles when the foreign guy attacker was just a drunk cockblocker. Just the other night a guy bigger than me tried to CB me because I was a "dirty Spanish". But I kept an eye on him and nothing happened.

If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't even know that there is race-related violence. This forum has tons of black members... can you identify one that has been attacked in a foreign country? All stories are second-hand. Funny thing is, I know many FIRST HAND stories of gringos getting jacked in South America, mostly white guys.

Fearmongering in general, not just with travel, really bothers me. If you investigate each case, you'll find them to have little substance.

Agreed. I've been in Serbian quasi-crack-dens around skinheads and I've walked past several unsavory individuals on dark streets in Poland, but I've never been threatened with physical violence. Could it happen? Sure. But the fact of the matter is, that kind of thing is extremely rare. (I also know several South Asian guys who were recently in Russia and Ukraine without incident.)

The fact of the matter is, these are generally functional societies - they're not the Wild West - and most people are not backwards. Even when you talk about "anti-black" bias Roosh, that probably means 1 in 10 people, at most, are going to be outwardly racist.

Reminds me of the time when people were afraid to come to LA because of the freeway shootings. High-profile crimes like that or skinhead violence in FSU are certainly scary and worth noting but your chances of being directly impacted as a tourist are probably <.01%

That's not to say there aren't some disturbing trends and some truly fucked-up aspects of the psyche of these countries. It's stomach-turning and a major problem. But grab a local or two to roll with and you should be a-ok and you'll probably end up meeting great people (and girls.)

In my experience being a black American is a major ++ in any of these countries. Black American (i.e. Hip Hop / sports / music / entertainment) cultural exports are hugely popular across the globe and 90% of people are all about it.

[Roosh]

Quote:

Black American (i.e. Hip Hop / sports / music / entertainment) cultural exports are hugely popular across the globe and 90% of people are all about it.

Yeah, if I see a black guy with a tight local girl, it's 99% chance that he's American. Saw it in Tallinn a couple times, enough that I'd recommend a black friend to check it out and give it a try.

[coopers317]

New to this forum...man do I wish I knew about this place a couple of years ago. I have plenty of catching up to do.

I plan on doing a Riga or Talinn/ Stockholm/Helsinki triangle trip very soon, but I am, I guess what you call, pipelining a few other areas to gauge interest.

Anyway, I'm still trying to figure out this Ukraine thing, and is it a go or a no go. I'm reading a lot of stories about how bad it is in the Ukraine for blacks and how unsafe it is. But I've been doing a little pipelining to try and get a feel for the level of response I get, and I must say its been very good (way more than Riga for instance) and the women are beautiful - from Kharkov to Odessa and all points between. I speak little to non of the language and have made this known, but most of them speak enough english to make something happen. Am I missing something here? Is this ultimately a sponsorship thing? I'm pretty perceptive though and I don't get that feeling.

Btw if it matters...I'm a 40 yo guy, pretty good looking, and dress pretty well (blazer, nice jeans and shoes - the ryan gosling look, only a black guy though)

[Blunt]

(04-23-2012 09:47 AM)coopers317 Wrote:  

Am I missing something here? Is this ultimately a sponsorship thing? I'm pretty perceptive though and I don't get that feeling.

Btw if it matters...I'm a 40 yo guy, pretty good looking, and dress pretty well (blazer, nice jeans and shoes - the ryan gosling look, only a black guy though)

It depends on the girls who you are talking with. If you're talking strictly with dimes, then maybe, but they might just think you're good looking and at 40 obviously you aren't broke. On Mamba girls can explicitly declare if they are looking for a sponsor or not.

I'm not sure if any black guys from the forum have gone to Ukraine, but I think a couple Indian guys have, so try the search. In the meantime start here:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-11338.html

It has a lot of insights on Ukraine from Roosh and Greek Kamaki.

[coopers317]

(04-23-2012 11:13 AM)Blunt Wrote:  

I'm not sure if any black guys from the forum have gone to Ukraine, but I think a couple Indian guys have, so try the search. In the meantime start here:

It has a lot of insights on Ukraine from Roosh and Greek Kamaki.

Thanks for the link and the feedback. I'm reading through a bunch of stuff on Ukraine now and I'm still getting a lot of conflicting signals, but the one consensus is that the women are hot!! And based on the feedback Ive been getting, I concur...I'm about to have to start a spreadsheet lol.

I'm usually a dolo kind of guy, and will probably go at some point regardless because I just HAVE to see for myself what its like at ground zero. But if anyone else has an interest in checking it, but not alone, in the next 6 months or so let me know.