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Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA
#1

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/har...ml?_r=1&hp

Quote:Quote:

Harder for Americans to Rise From Lower RungsBy JASON DePARLE
Published: January 4, 2012

WASHINGTON — Benjamin Franklin did it. Henry Ford did it. And American life is built on the faith that others can do it, too: rise from humble origins to economic heights. “Movin’ on up,” George Jefferson-style, is not only a sitcom song but a civil religion.

.But many researchers have reached a conclusion that turns conventional wisdom on its head: Americans enjoy less economic mobility than their peers in Canada and much of Western Europe. The mobility gap has been widely discussed in academic circles, but a sour season of mass unemployment and street protests has moved the discussion toward center stage.

Former Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, a Republican candidate for president, warned this fall that movement “up into the middle income is actually greater, the mobility in Europe, than it is in America.” National Review, a conservative thought leader, wrote that “most Western European and English-speaking nations have higher rates of mobility.” Even Representative Paul D. Ryan, a Wisconsin Republican who argues that overall mobility remains high, recently wrote that “mobility from the very bottom up” is “where the United States lags behind.”

Liberal commentators have long emphasized class, but the attention on the right is largely new.

“It’s becoming conventional wisdom that the U.S. does not have as much mobility as most other advanced countries,” said Isabel V. Sawhill, an economist at the Brookings Institution. “I don’t think you’ll find too many people who will argue with that.”

One reason for the mobility gap may be the depth of American poverty, which leaves poor children starting especially far behind. Another may be the unusually large premiums that American employers pay for college degrees. Since children generally follow their parents’ educational trajectory, that premium increases the importance of family background and stymies people with less schooling.

At least five large studies in recent years have found the United States to be less mobile than comparable nations. A project led by Markus Jantti, an economist at a Swedish university, found that 42 percent of American men raised in the bottom fifth of incomes stay there as adults. That shows a level of persistent disadvantage much higher than in Denmark (25 percent) and Britain (30 percent) — a country famous for its class constraints.

Meanwhile, just 8 percent of American men at the bottom rose to the top fifth. That compares with 12 percent of the British and 14 percent of the Danes.

Despite frequent references to the United States as a classless society, about 62 percent of Americans (male and female) raised in the top fifth of incomes stay in the top two-fifths, according to research by the Economic Mobility Project of the Pew Charitable Trusts. Similarly, 65 percent born in the bottom fifth stay in the bottom two-fifths.

By emphasizing the influence of family background, the studies not only challenge American identity but speak to the debate about inequality. While liberals often complain that the United States has unusually large income gaps, many conservatives have argued that the system is fair because mobility is especially high, too: everyone can climb the ladder. Now the evidence suggests that America is not only less equal, but also less mobile.

John Bridgeland, a former aide to President George W. Bush who helped start Opportunity Nation, an effort to seek policy solutions, said he was “shocked” by the international comparisons. “Republicans will not feel compelled to talk about income inequality,” Mr. Bridgeland said. “But they will feel a need to talk about a lack of mobility — a lack of access to the American Dream.”

While Europe differs from the United States in culture and demographics, a more telling comparison may be with Canada, a neighbor with significant ethnic diversity. Miles Corak, an economist at the University of Ottawa, found that just 16 percent of Canadian men raised in the bottom tenth of incomes stayed there as adults, compared with 22 percent of Americans. Similarly, 26 percent of American men raised at the top tenth stayed there, but just 18 percent of Canadians.

“Family background plays more of a role in the U.S. than in most comparable countries,” Professor Corak said in an interview.

Skeptics caution that the studies measure “relative mobility” — how likely children are to move from their parents’ place in the income distribution. That is different from asking whether they have more money. Most Americans have higher incomes than their parents because the country has grown richer.

Some conservatives say this measure, called absolute mobility, is a better gauge of opportunity. A Pew study found that 81 percent of Americans have higher incomes than their parents (after accounting for family size). There is no comparable data on other countries.

Since they require two generations of data, the studies also omit immigrants, whose upward movement has long been considered an American strength. “If America is so poor in economic mobility, maybe someone should tell all these people who still want to come to the U.S.,” said Stuart M. Butler, an analyst at the Heritage Foundation.

The income compression in rival countries may also make them seem more mobile. Reihan Salam, a writer for The Daily and National Review Online, has calculated that a Danish family can move from the 10th percentile to the 90th percentile with $45,000 of additional earnings, while an American family would need an additional $93,000.

Even by measures of relative mobility, Middle America remains fluid. About 36 percent of Americans raised in the middle fifth move up as adults, while 23 percent stay on the same rung and 41 percent move down, according to Pew research. The “stickiness” appears at the top and bottom, as affluent families transmit their advantages and poor families stay trapped.

While Americans have boasted of casting off class since Poor Richard’s Almanac, until recently there has been little data.

Pioneering work in the early 1980s by Gary S. Becker, a Nobel laureate in economics, found only a mild relationship between fathers’ earnings and those of their sons. But when better data became available a decade later, another prominent economist, Gary Solon, found the bond twice as strong. Most researchers now estimate the “elasticity” of father-son earnings at 0.5, which means if one man earns $100,000 more than another, his sons would earn $50,000 more on average than the sons of the poorer man.

In 2006 Professor Corak reviewed more than 50 studies of nine countries. He ranked Canada, Norway, Finland and Denmark as the most mobile, with the United States and Britain roughly tied at the other extreme. Sweden, Germany, and France were scattered across the middle.

The causes of America’s mobility problem are a topic of dispute — starting with the debates over poverty. The United States maintains a thinner safety net than other rich countries, leaving more children vulnerable to debilitating hardships.

Poor Americans are also more likely than foreign peers to grow up with single mothers. That places them at an elevated risk of experiencing poverty and related problems, a point frequently made by Mr. Santorum, who surged into contention in the Iowa caucuses. The United States also has uniquely high incarceration rates, and a longer history of racial stratification than its peers.

“The bottom fifth in the U.S. looks very different from the bottom fifth in other countries,” said Scott Winship, a researcher at the Brookings Institution, who wrote the article for National Review. “Poor Americans have to work their way up from a lower floor.”

A second distinguishing American trait is the pay tilt toward educated workers. While in theory that could help poor children rise — good learners can become high earners — more often it favors the children of the educated and affluent, who have access to better schools and arrive in them more prepared to learn.

“Upper-income families can invest more in their children’s education and they may have a better understanding of what it takes to get a good education,” said Eric Wanner, president of the Russell Sage Foundation, which gives grants to social scientists.

The United States is also less unionized than many of its peers, which may lower wages among the least skilled, and has public health problems, like obesity and diabetes, which can limit education and employment.

Perhaps another brake on American mobility is the sheer magnitude of the gaps between rich and the rest — the theme of the Occupy Wall Street protests, which emphasize the power of the privileged to protect their interests. Countries with less equality generally have less mobility.

Mr. Salam recently wrote that relative mobility “is overrated as a social policy goal” compared with raising incomes across the board. Parents naturally try to help their children, and a completely mobile society would mean complete insecurity: anyone could tumble any time.

But he finds the stagnation at the bottom alarming and warns that it will worsen. Most of the studies end with people born before 1970, while wage gaps, single motherhood and incarceration increased later. Until more recent data arrives, he said, “we don’t know the half of it.”
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#2

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

There will never be social mobility when the government controls 20%+ of the GDP

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#3

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Great article.

One of the things to pay attention to is how important education is in terms of present and future earnings. The days of the average guy with only a high school education being able to live a solid middle class lifestyle are over. The only real areas of job growth are towards the top, with regard to highly educated and skilled workers, and towards the bottom in the service industry (fast food, retail sales, housekeeping, etc).

This above phenomena (decreasing number of well paying unskilled jobs) really cannot be stopped. Globalization and technology are killing those positions. We all hear about jobs moving over to China, but I heard a CRAZY statistic a few months ago. There are actually LESS manufacturing jobs in China now than there were 10 years ago. Why? Technology and automation. No matter how cheap Chinese labor is, it cant compete with robots, and automated processes.

The REAL problem, as I see it, is the fact that the ladder bridging unskilled low wage earners with highly skilled high wage earners is being destroyed. Not only do you need more education to achieve a middle class lifestyle, but access to that education has become more limited and more expensive.

For example, our community college system is being decimated. Community colleges are probably the single best stepping stone the working poor can use to gain an low cost education that can put them on the path to the middle class. In it's place are for-profit colleges that are charging 10 times as much to unsuspecting students.

So how do all but the most enterprising of the young working poor climb up the ladder when unskilled middle class jobs are vanishing, will access to education for higher paying jobs is becoming more restricted? The answer is "they don't". I just heard on the news that Dunkin Donuts is planing on doubling its stores in the US over the next 20 years. At 7,000 stores now, with 20-25 employees per store, we are looking at about an extra 150,000 jobs. THIS is the future for unskilled labor in America.
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#4

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

All in all I'm not sure how much of it is due to culture. There are just some people who live in areas where they will never be exposed to a reason to higher education. Now when it comes to the whole retail jobs thing. The fact of the matter is the way that you need to spend 100k well more like 150-200k just to get a college degree that doesn't get you much in pay increase for most college grads, those people working unskilled jobs can wind up being the richer ones. I find that every popular hair dresser I go to charges between 100-200. Just for doing hair. They can have 3 clients at one time and easily get through 10 clients in 12 hours. So they are making 1000-2000 on a good day. Even if that is just saturday and friday, and they are so overbooked you must make appointment 5 days in advance. If I was unskilled, I'd go to hair college and go do hair. And then there is the 20-50 tip per customer. Thats like 3000 on a good day. Just make sure you attract those upper class white suburban type clients or blacks because they spend the most on hair.
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#5

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Quote: (01-05-2012 02:19 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

There will never be social mobility when the government controls 20%+ of the GDP

Interesting ... can you be more specific?
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#6

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Quote: (01-07-2012 05:50 PM)doctorlove Wrote:  

All in all I'm not sure how much of it is due to culture. There are just some people who live in areas where they will never be exposed to a reason to higher education. Now when it comes to the whole retail jobs thing. The fact of the matter is the way that you need to spend 100k well more like 150-200k just to get a college degree that doesn't get you much in pay increase for most college grads, those people working unskilled jobs can wind up being the richer ones.

They MIGHT, but all of the available data says that they most likely won't. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to live a middle class lifestyle without either college or technical training. Heck, look at the two most traditional examples of blue collar, middle class jobs, policemen and firefighters. Even those jobs are starting to require at least some college when dealing with departments in major cities.

The reality is that you DON'T need to spend $100K+ just to get a four yeat degree, although many do. IMHO, no one should even bother going to no-name private colleges when they can get in-state tuition at their local state university. UrbanNerd posted in another thread about the strategy of doing your first 2 years at a community college and then transferring to a flagship state university. I knew a ton of guys that did this. I also know a ton of people (including my parents) that chose to live at home and attend a state university. This works only when your parentts live near a university, but it is also a great strategy.


Quote: (01-07-2012 05:50 PM)doctorlove Wrote:  

I find that every popular hair dresser I go to charges between 100-200. Just for doing hair. They can have 3 clients at one time and easily get through 10 clients in 12 hours. So they are making 1000-2000 on a good day. Even if that is just saturday and friday, and they are so overbooked you must make appointment 5 days in advance. If I was unskilled, I'd go to hair college and go do hair. And then there is the 20-50 tip per customer. Thats like 3000 on a good day. Just make sure you attract those upper class white suburban type clients or blacks because they spend the most on hair.

The challenge with that is that there are SO FEW of those popular hair dressers making that money, relative to the total number of folks that are trained to work in that field. My bet is that the type of hairdresser you are talking about is probably 1 in 500 or 1 in 1,000. You may see more of them because you are going to salons that have that type of high paying clientele. Those types of jobs are terribly hard to get. I know a ton of trained hair dressers and, unless they own their own shop, most that can find work are makeing in the mid 20's to mid 30's range.
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#7

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

The big issue with social mobility is that many people do not want to move to where the jobs are. I find this mostly in the northeastern section of the us and central canada. The jobs have moved west to alberta, montana, north dakota, wyoming, alaska iowa missouri etc. Also many people would seemingly rather stay put and take welfare than to move west and get a good job because they don't want to move to middle of nowhere.

Places like Toronto and Quebec have 15-30% unemployment for youths under 30 but immigrants insist on living there simply because they want to be in places with a history like Toronto or Montreal. They don't want to be in Edmonton or Calgary or Regina or Saskatoon even though they can earn more. Or same thing, NYC receives lots of immigrants when it has millions of unemployed people already but why don't they go Texas?

Well given that the hair stylist only needs to be located in a suburban and cheap rent place its not excessively difficult to earn business, especially when you can open next door to a popular one. If they want to earn alot they need to build up a big clientele and it may take some time but the only requirement is to do a good job that your client like and to be well trained and have a pleasant looking place. I knew a hair barber, had a great business and decimated his own business by insulting his clients, keeping prices too low, let his personal life cross over to his work life, fired his barbers who were drawing clients, and used dirty tools that spreaded hair diseases to clients. Unfortunately lazyness in the industry is an epic problem. Those are the ones making 20k. They lack discipline don't wake up on time.
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#8

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

I'm not even surprised. Our country is turning to shit.
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#9

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

I call bullshit on this article. Plenty of folks I know from the working and lower classes have made it to the middle and upper strata of society. They did it through hard work, finding opportunity where it exists, educating themselves in a manner applicable to future employment.

Too many people bitching about the lack of social mobility are happy to ignorantly remain in their hometowns after earning a degree in African American studies or some other stupid bullshit.

Quote: (02-16-2014 01:05 PM)jariel Wrote:  
Since chicks have decided they have the right to throw their pussies around like Joe Montana, I have the right to be Jerry Rice.
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#10

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Quote: (01-21-2012 03:15 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

I call bullshit on this article. Plenty of folks I know from the working and lower classes have made it to the middle and upper strata of society. They did it through hard work, finding opportunity where it exists, educating themselves in a manner applicable to future employment.

Too many people bitching about the lack of social mobility are happy to ignorantly remain in their hometowns after earning a degree in African American studies or some other stupid bullshit.

When.

Ten years ago? We aren't talking about 10 years ago. We're talking about now and the future. I know plenty of people who did it too, my mom, dad, uncle, and grand parents all did it IN THE PAST.

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#11

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Quote: (01-21-2012 03:15 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

I call bullshit on this article. Plenty of folks I know from the working and lower classes have made it to the middle and upper strata of society. They did it through hard work, finding opportunity where it exists, educating themselves in a manner applicable to future employment.

Plenty of guys I know have no problem finding skinny girls with feminine dispositions. They score their chicks through tight game, going to where the hot girls are, and by keeping their game-skills current. I guess there must be no obese- and masculine-woman epidemics in America.

Fallacious logic, homie.

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#12

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Quote: (01-21-2012 05:51 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

Plenty of guys I know have no problem finding skinny girls with feminine dispositions. I guess there must be no obese- and masculine-woman epidemics in America. They score their chicks through tight game, going to where the hot girls are, and by keeping their game-skills current.

Fallacious logic, homie.

You're proving my point even moreso. I said that upward mobility happens through work, education, and taking advantage of opportunity. Economically and game-wise. A man who does not bust ass and educate himself doesn't deserve a good job. Your average schlub with few skills attracting the opposite gender doesn't deserve hot, feminine women.

Those unwilling to improve themselves deserve to stay at the bottom.

Quote: (01-21-2012 05:46 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

When.

Ten years ago? We aren't talking about 10 years ago. We're talking about now and the future. I know plenty of people who did it too, my mom, dad, uncle, and grand parents all did it IN THE PAST.

In the modern day and age. Opportunity abounds in America, and certain industries will continue to provide good jobs here - healthcare and energy among them. Those who educate themselves will claim these good jobs.

Unlike days passed, GM isn't hiring high school dropouts for $15/hr. factory jobs. Boo hoo.

Quote: (02-16-2014 01:05 PM)jariel Wrote:  
Since chicks have decided they have the right to throw their pussies around like Joe Montana, I have the right to be Jerry Rice.
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#13

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Quote: (01-21-2012 06:04 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

You're proving my point even moreso. I said that upward mobility happens through work, education, and taking advantage of opportunity. Economically and game-wise. A man who does not bust ass and educate himself doesn't deserve a good job. Your average schlub with few skills attracting the opposite gender doesn't deserve hot, feminine women.

No, you're proving my point. You're using anecdotal evidence to try to disprove a broad, indisputable trend. Just because you know a very few exceptions to the rule doesn't mean that the greater trend--diminished opportunities for social advancement--isn't true. Shit, I know exceptions to all sorts of rules.

A man has always had to "bust his ass" to move up--even during times of prosperity. No one said you could move up in this world just chilling by the swimming pool. Problem is, nowadays, not only does he have to "bust his ass" more, he doesn't advance as much, or may not advance at all.

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#14

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

I often see this discussed and touted, and frankly it is just not that big of a deal. While there are many unfair things about American society and the unfairness has largely grown worse in the past generation, social mobility should decline over time in a meritocratic, industrial society. We know that human intelligence is highly heritable, and many other traits related to financial success must be heritable to some degree.

Thus the longer a society is modern, industrialized, and meritocratic the less social mobility there will be.
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#15

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Quote: (01-07-2012 05:55 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

Quote: (01-05-2012 02:19 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

There will never be social mobility when the government controls 20%+ of the GDP

Interesting ... can you be more specific?

The government owns this country's economy, with regulations and taxes determining what and where you sell something. Have a new food product? Hope you comply with the FDA. Are you a Doctor? Better be approved by the AMA. And this goes for EVERYTHING.

As a result, people can't make money in America unless they work for an approved federal agency. That's why our unemployment is so high, and wages so low - only the chosen lottery winners coming out of the top schools can make any money. It's a fucking sham.

The last frontier of free-market economics is the internet, and it's only a matter of time before they clampdown on it.

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#16

Study shows almost no social mobility in the USA

Quote: (01-24-2012 01:42 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote: (01-07-2012 05:55 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

Quote: (01-05-2012 02:19 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

There will never be social mobility when the government controls 20%+ of the GDP

Interesting ... can you be more specific?

The government owns this country's economy, with regulations and taxes determining what and where you sell something. Have a new food product? Hope you comply with the FDA. Are you a Doctor? Better be approved by the AMA. And this goes for EVERYTHING.

As a result, people can't make money in America unless they work for an approved federal agency. That's why our unemployment is so high, and wages so low - only the chosen lottery winners coming out of the top schools can make any money. It's a fucking sham.

The last frontier of free-market economics is the internet, and it's only a matter of time before they clampdown on it.

By almost any measure, regulation--across the board--has declined in the last 30 years. During that same time, prosperity (for the average, working, middle-class American) has declined precipitously. Lack of regulation (in the form of NAFTA and other liftings-of-restrictions) is precisely what's allowed greedy companies to ship jobs where they can pay slave wages. Lack of regulation is what allows companies to use under-the-table, immigrant, illegal labor to circumvent weak laws and penalties and--when they do "get caught"--get a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile, corporate profits and CEO salaries are at record highs. They aren't "passing the savings" onto us (the consumer), as they claim. They're pocketing them. We still pay $500 for a goddamn iPhone (well, I don't, but many do). The difference now is that fewer people have money to buy the shit they keep pedaling on us.

The government is increasingly not involved in the economy. The economy (meaning corporations) increasingly run the government. That's why it's so generous and forgiving of them. Just look at the donator lists for senators and the president. They're wholly owned subsidiaries of Goldman Sachs, Bank of American, and the oil companies. Bail outs allowed them to stay afloat. The government let them continue to run their own show. They don't own shit.

If anything, we need stronger regulation. It's interesting that precisely when regulation is at one of its weakest points is where we hear the loudest cries against it. It's an old technique from people who support the status quo, but it still works. It's one of the classic techniques of the Right (used loudest by Fox News)--to say the opposite of what's happening.

The Government Runs the Economy --> corporations actually run the government to an increasing degree, and this one of the most business-friendly periods in American history

Taxes On the Rich (the so-called "Job Creators") Are Too High --> tax rates are, in fact, lower than they were under Reagan

Obama is a "Socialist" --> Obama is, in fact, more to the Right than Eisenhower (a Republican) was.

The Media Has a Liberal Bias --> no, the media--which is owned by giant media conglomerates--prints and broadcast only those things which does not threaten business interests

The list goes on.

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