[Scarlet_Terror]

In the past half year, I've carried on brief flings with a few legit 8's to 8.5's. Considering I'm in the DC area, this is no small feat. There's been a good chunk of 6-7's in between, but who cares about them?

My flings with the 8+ always end the same way. They "dump" me after about 4-6 weeks. I generally don't take what women say at face value, but since what all three said were quite similar, I think it was worth putting under consideration.

1) "You're not much of a gentleman." (This girl was a fit gymnast with huge knockers. She ordered a huge burger at a restaurant we went to and I stupidly and sarcastically cracked "yeah, that'll help keep you looking flawless".

2) "You're kind of insensitive and rude." (With this girl, we were at a comedy club and the girl at the next table started heckling the comic for telling a politically incorrect joke. I told the stupid 20 something year old to "shut the fuck up and save your sensitivity for your diversity class on campus". My date looked at me with horror.

3) "You're superficial and blunt." I was out with a smoking belly dancer chick and we played the KMF bar game. Every time I chose a girl to 'kill' my date would ask why. I would say "because she's fat and disgusting." or something equally bad. I also may have gone on a tirade about how the whole women's body image movement is bullshit because for every anorexic girl I see, there are like 500 fatties, even in DC.

I think the problem is I may have taken the "not give a shit/asshole" game bit too far. And I'm finding it really hard to deprogram myself because the 6-7's will put up with my bullshit. I never have the problem of being too squishy/needy/beta, but I do need to learn when to shut the fuck up or just LIE/ACT. DC women are SO easily offended and PC that I'm surprised I got as far as I did. Before some of you say "who gives a shit?", I'll answer that all three of these girls were awesome in the sack and would have made great additions to my regular rotation of a few girls. I see no need to self-sabotage and push the rare DC 8+ out of my life.

I've been lucky enough to be born with good looks and height, but that all means shit if a girl LEGITIMATELY thinks you're an asshole. And let me tell you, owning a fancy car and condo (which I did for me, not to get girls...well, at least the condo) has not improved my sex life at all. It's stayed more or less the same.

Roosh is right. Some girls will actually try to withold sex to be put into "gf material" once they see you have a good standard of living. I bet bartenders/bouncers turn around way more tail than a Wall Street investment banker.

[Alpha]

You're spot on with whats going on. Asshole game ramped up to 11 is great to bed 'em for a night, but if you keep it ramped up to 11 during a relationship you go from "funny" to "Dick" really fast.

I would say it would be best to just not say anything when you feel an asshole comment coming. Bite your tongue 2 out of 3 times when you're in a relationship. Not saying anything will keep you mysterious (try smiling nonchalantly and walking away when they ask you something) and also keep you from treading into asshole territory.

Its also easier to do than trying to balance a bit of beta game into your relationship.

That being said, I agree with what you said to girl 2 and 10 out of 10 times that would have been my response.

Fuck all that "PC" noise.

[Batata]

Yeah, I've used game literature to figure out what NOT to do when talking to girls. It's been working out for me pretty well thus far. I feel like most guys have an inner instinct to bed women, but fixable beta tendencies often get in the way of success.

[Nonpareil]

(11-13-2011 11:23 PM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

2) "You're kind of insensitive and rude." (With this girl, we were at a comedy club and the girl at the next table started heckling the comic for telling a politically incorrect joke. I told the stupid 20 something year old to "shut the fuck up and save your sensitivity for your diversity class on campus". My date looked at me with horror.

Okay, you just became my hero.

Quote:

3) "You're superficial and blunt." I was out with a smoking belly dancer chick and we played the KMF bar game. Every time I chose a girl to 'kill' my date would ask why. I would say "because she's fat and disgusting." or something equally bad. I also may have gone on a tirade about how the whole women's body image movement is bullshit because for every anorexic girl I see, there are like 500 fatties, even in DC.

Yeah MFK is a game that you need to be a little more forgiving in. I don't even remember the last time I played it, but I would almost never kill the fatty. I would deflect and say 'I mean I probably wouldn't get into a relationship with her, but maybe she's a nice person?'

You can, however, be vicious to the hot girls.

NEVER debate body issues with women. There is never a right answer because men aren't women and can't appreciate their form (yeah right).

Quote:

I think the problem is I may have taken the "not give a shit/asshole" game bit too far. And I'm finding it really hard to deprogram myself because the 6-7's will put up with my bullshit. I never have the problem of being too squishy/needy/beta, but I do need to learn when to shut the fuck up or just LIE/ACT. DC women are SO easily offended and PC that I'm surprised I got as far as I did. Before some of you say "who gives a shit?", I'll answer that all three of these girls were awesome in the sack and would have made great additions to my regular rotation of a few girls. I see no need to self-sabotage and push the rare DC 8+ out of my life.

I've been lucky enough to be born with good looks and height, but that all means shit if a girl LEGITIMATELY thinks you're an asshole. And let me tell you, owning a fancy car and condo (which I did for me, not to get girls...well, at least the condo) has not improved my sex life at all. It's stayed more or less the same.

Just calibrate, dude. On a first date with an 8 or above you're hovering around 60-40 Asshole:Normal Guy, and you can dial back that ratio as you go out with her more...never drop it completely, but start to sprinkle it in a little less liberally.

[Timoteo]

I think on these occasions you crossed the line between teasing and being flat-out insulting. Hard-edged meanspiritedness will turn chicks off (the comment about killing fatties was kind of strong). It's not about being PC...sometimes you can say shit that's flat out wrong, even if there's a grain of truth in it. It's every bit as important to know when NOT to say something as it is to know the right thing to say. If a chick is comfortable enough to eat in front of you like that, roll with it. If she's starts gaining weight from eating like that ALL the time, deal with it then. Cursing out other people in public is another red flag (if a chick were abusive to people around her in front of you, you'd definitely not appreciate it). So yeah...if you're in a place (D.C.) where it's hard for you to find top-notch fuckable talent, then modify your game a little to keep them in rotation until YOU'RE tired of them and are ready to bounce them. Don't give them blatant reasons to jettison YOU.

[Batata]

Yeah, I find that guys who think they're running "asshole game" are actually just being hostile to the girl they're talking to. This might be your problem, OP.

[Batata]

Also, you should read the Roissy article on the KMF game. He basically describes the very pitfall you fell into. When you play the game, you're supposed to "kill" the hottest, bitchiest looking girl in the bar, as this makes them feel comfortable with you.

[Hooligan Harry]

Female psychology is female psychology and most of this shit is subconscious to them. The bouncer has a few things going for him.

* He has the power to decide who gets in and who does not. So he qualifies people.
* He can handle himself and you automatically know that he is in the top 10% when it comes to physicality.
* He is surrounded by bitches, many of whom are drunk and/or high. He has more opportunity
* He is a shark in a fish pond. He is the king of his patch, he is nothing away from it.

A wall street banker is not surrounded by wall to wall pussy that is either drunk or high when he goes to work. He is not going to conduct overt displays of status over other men in front of that many women either, let alone women who hope to get fucked that night. He cannot overtly peacock like a bouncer does. It needs to be put into perspective.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Game is great at getting you laid because its like paper mache. Its a social tool and skill that creates the impression of status. You exude traits that high status men exude. That is what all this alpha shit is about.

When the chick gets to know you and she finds out its based on nothing but self taught techniques, your asshole attitude is not congruent to her anymore. Its no longer worth tolerating because you are not that high status guy she thought you were. The hamster stops spinning

Get more bitches on the go firstly, this way your indifference is justified. Backtracking and going fag on a woman will do more damage than holding frame will too. Come to terms with the fact that game alone is not enough and you need to be improving yourself in all areas if you want to maintain relationships with them. It will get you laid but they wont stick around if she has options.

[Docter]

(11-14-2011 12:08 AM)Batata Wrote:  

Also, you should read the Roissy article on the KMF game. He basically describes the very pitfall you fell into. When you play the game, you're supposed to "kill" the hottest, bitchiest looking girl in the bar, as this makes them feel comfortable with you.

yea, you can pull the "that ho is so superficial I hate bitches like that" and then your biddie is all "no way me too Im sooooo not like those girls" as she fixes her hair.

checkmate.

[Scarlet_Terror]

Game has been instrumental for me in terms of body language, push/pull, freeze outs, and not doing dinner dates/paying for drinks.

But I would like to clarify this assholery I'm exuding has little to do with game. I've always been kind of a blunt prick, I just used to hide it back when I was a virgin/not getting laid/ugly in HS and much of college. The confidence I gained after finally banging some decent girls is what basically removed any filter between what my mind is thinking and what my mouth is saying. I need to put this filter back on if I want to keep anything above a 7.5+ in my bedroom for more than a week or two. I get told I'm blunt/superficial/asshole quite a bit and what's the point of failing if you don't learn something? I always assumed I didn't need to change who I was because I wasn't being a grubby/needy AFC. But the truth is my personality is a turn off for a lot of girls when discussing certain issues. I really do think girls hate above average looking guys are too cocky/assholish.

I had a girl ask me over drinks what I thought of [some retarded art museum in DC]. I said it was boring as hell and I couldn't wait to leave. I don't know how to feign interest because the idea of feigning interest in [retarded art museum] is almost as bad as going to said art museum. This sabotage was intentional cause she was pretty gross...but I still need to work on this.

[Scarlet_Terror]

(11-14-2011 12:29 AM)Docter Wrote:  

(11-14-2011 12:08 AM)Batata Wrote:  

Also, you should read the Roissy article on the KMF game. He basically describes the very pitfall you fell into. When you play the game, you're supposed to "kill" the hottest, bitchiest looking girl in the bar, as this makes them feel comfortable with you.

yea, you can pull the "that ho is so superficial I hate bitches like that" and then your biddie is all "no way me too Im sooooo not like those girls" as she fixes her hair.

checkmate.

Fuck this is brilliant. Ugh.

[Timoteo]

(11-14-2011 12:44 AM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

Game has been instrumental for me in terms of body language, push/pull, freeze outs, and not doing dinner dates/paying for drinks.

But I would like to clarify this assholery I'm exuding has little to do with game. I've always been kind of a blunt prick, I just used to hide it back when I was a virgin/not getting laid/ugly in HS and much of college. The confidence I gained after finally banging some decent girls is what basically removed any filter between what my mind is thinking and what my mouth is saying. I need to put this filter back on if I want to keep anything above a 7.5+ in my bedroom for more than a week or two. I get told I'm blunt/superficial/asshole quite a bit and what's the point of failing if you don't learn something? I always assumed I didn't need to change who I was because I wasn't being a grubby/needy AFC. But the truth is my personality is a turn off for a lot of girls when discussing certain issues. I really do think girls hate above average looking guys are too cocky/assholish.

I had a girl ask me over drinks what I thought of [some retarded art museum in DC]. I said it was boring as hell and I couldn't wait to leave. I don't know how to feign interest because the idea of feigning interest in [retarded art museum] is almost as bad as going to said art museum. This sabotage was intentional cause she was pretty gross...but I still need to work on this.

I don't think you should EVER feign interest in something you truly have no interest in. Be honest about that, but you don't HAVE to be rude, abrasive or profane. HOW you say something is every bit important as what you say. You can simply say that art isn't your thing. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet for a chick, and endure something you really don't want to, but MAKE SURE SHE MAKES IT UP TO YOU.

[XXL]

(11-14-2011 12:44 AM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

I always assumed I didn't need to change who I was because I wasn't being a grubby/needy AFC. But the truth is my personality is a turn off for a lot of girls when discussing certain issues. I really do think girls hate above average looking guys are too cocky/assholish.

i think you have to ask yourself a question.. do you want to stay true to yourself and hang with girl who likes YOU or do you want to change a bit to make more girls like you? that is the question.

(11-14-2011 12:44 AM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

I had a girl ask me over drinks what I thought of [some retarded art museum in DC]. I said it was boring as hell and I couldn't wait to leave. I don't know how to feign interest because the idea of feigning interest in [retarded art museum] is almost as bad as going to said art museum. This sabotage was intentional cause she was pretty gross...but I still need to work on this.

haha that's cool actually i like that. however you could express your indifference about that museum with more let's say "charm" and respond with sarcasm like.. "museum huh? yeah.. nice walls, spacial rooms, air conditioning.. what the fuck do i know about art museums?"

best example of the art of charming edge is hank moody from californication tv series. you can laugh at me but i've learned a lot from this character how charming "who gives a fuck" expression looks like. he doesn't filter at all, he spits what he thinks but he adds wit/joke to it so it doesn't come across as total lame asshole but devil-may-care 'dark side' witty type. that's big difference.

i can't forget his line when someone asked him if he and karen are together now and he said something like "yes we are. until we fuck it up. could be any second now..". that's kind of assholish thing to say for example to friends about your new girlfriend sitting next to you but it's not offensive it's funny.

[Neo]

Quote:

I think the problem is I may have taken the "not give a shit/asshole" game bit too far. And I'm finding it really hard to deprogram myself because the 6-7's will put up with my bullshit. I never have the problem of being too squishy/needy/beta, but I do need to learn when to shut the fuck up or just LIE/ACT. DC women are SO easily offended and PC that I'm surprised I got as far as I did.

Probably. Once I'm hooking up with them, I tone the asshole stuff down for the most part, and only make the occasional dick move. I've found once she respects you and sees you as a strong person saying this type of stuff is unnecessary. Every once in a while if she's pulling something or playing games by all means keep her in check.

Also unless your girl/someone is bothering you or getting in your face and pulling some stupid shit, I don't see the point of insulting random people or the girl you're with in public.

[Giovonny]

I learned this the hard way. I used to talk to my dates about any and every subject. I spoke my mind freely. I wanted to push her buttons and get a reaction out of them. I was also trying to impress them with my wit and aggressive attitude. This was a big mistake. I learned that what I don't say is just as important as what I do say.

The more I talked with this "who-gives-a-fuck" attitude, the more chance that she might get offended and/or think I was too pushy/aggressive. I wanted to push the girls buttons, but I was taking it to far. I scared away some girls. I was "scaring away the cat". (To use a term from Roosh's Day Bang)

I learned to "calibrate". I began speaking a little less and alot more carefully. I learned to use more humor.

(11-14-2011 06:07 AM)XXL Wrote:  

he doesn't filter at all, he spits what he thinks but he adds wit/joke to it so it doesn't come across as total lame asshole but devil-may-care 'dark side' witty type. that's big difference.

Ya. A dick who uses humor is often more attractive to women then a dick who is humor-less.

(11-14-2011 06:38 AM)Neo Wrote:  

Once I'm hooking up with them, I tone the asshole stuff down for the most part

[Scarlet_Terror]

(11-14-2011 02:36 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I learned this the hard way. I used to talk to my dates about any and every subject. I spoke my mind freely. I wanted to push her buttons and get a reaction out of them. I was also trying to impress them with my wit and aggressive attitude. This was a big mistake. I learned that what I don't say is just as important as what I do say.

The more I talked with this "who-gives-a-fuck" attitude, the more chance that she might get offended and/or think I was too pushy/aggressive. I wanted to push the girls buttons, but I was taking it to far. I scared away some girls. I was "scaring away the cat". (To use a term from Roosh's Day Bang)

You sound like me. My impulse control when it comes to holding my tongue about certain topics (dating, feminism, politics, fatties) is very, very poor. I also some times lose my cool when I'm driving in traffic. I'm sure all of these things played a role in me losing my 8+ girls.

[Giovonny]

We have to be careful to control our emotions. We have to be strategic about how and when we show anger. Showing too much anger over something small shows a lack of self control and a lack a social grace. Be calm, be in control.

Showing some anger can be a good thing but its important to balance that out with some humor or light-heartedness.

It all depends how the girl is responding. Read her reactions and calibrate to them. Some girls are soft and they are best handled with a softer approach. Some girls are a little rougher and they are turned on by some aggression. Adjust to her personality type.

Guys who are good with girls are usually not the angry types. They are usually more of the smooth talking, laid back, and easy to talk to type.

Getting all fired up over every little thing is kind of beta imo.

[Jack D. Serrano]

Keeping a girl in the long run, especially high quality girls, is almost entirely about NOT being an idiot, with your words and actions.

If you're not keeping high quality girls longer than 4-6 weeks you might ask yourself try to ask yourself why great girls won't stick around longer than that.

Your 3 examples in your original post are quite telling. Not necessarily about you, you're probably a great guy. I don't care about being PC. I'm more concerned with reality: What are the consequences of my actions?

Example #1: You insulted her. Doesn't matter whether you meant it or not. Doesn't matter whether it was true or not. It was an insult (a back-handed one). We can whine and complain all we want about how unfair it is that she gets angry at stuff like that won't change the reality of the situation. Bottom-line: Insulting (even if it's unintentional) a healthy self-esteem woman will make her interest in you go down, not up. To be fair, it reads like what was meant to be a playful compliment turned into a back-handed insult.

Example #2: Yeah, the heckler was a dick. So what? Getting mad at the guy makes you look petty, insecure, socially retarded, low self-esteem, with the emotional self-control of a middle school kid. You're probably a great guy most of the time, but that behavior makes the woman question everything good she has thought about you. I've walked out on dates with hot women for being less rude than that to people on dates. It's not cool, it's not classy, it's not high value. For anyone who has options and standards, that kind of behavior is at best, unattractive, at worst, it's a deal-breaker. You can keep doing stuff like that (publicly getting mad) but guys have to realize the consequences of their actions. Bottom-line: Getting angry at other people while on a date (and talking politics) will lower her interest level in you, not raise it.

(edit addition: IF you really feel like you have to say something, try walking over to him, whispering something in his ear that gets him to shut-up and sulk quietly for the rest of the show. Never, ever tell the girl what you said to him. Although, for something as unimportant as this, probably best just to ignore it or laugh at it.)

Example #3: Talking bad about other women simply makes you look bad from her POV. Are you "correct"? Probably. Lots of messed up women. Lots of things wrong with the fact that there are so many fat women. Lots of things messed up with lots of things. But who cares. Dates are for fun. The minute you start getting serious is the minute she starts losing interest. You can always choose between fun, light, playful conversation. Why shoot yourself in the foot by focusing on the parts of life that are shitty, messed up, not fun and divisive? So yeah, you probably have lots of insightful observations about the women's image movement. But, the consequences in reality are: talking about it will drive away high value women with healthy self-esteem from any kind of long-term situation.

If you are willing to accept those consequences then, by all means, keep taking those actions.

Now, I obviously don't know the details of why these women left you, or why things fall apart, but I've seen lots of the same patterns in many guys that is actually hurting their chances at long-term success. And most of it is behavior that they do because they think it helps them get the girl, when in reality, most of it is entirely unnecessary.

That last paragraph was a bit vague so I'll tell you how I keep things going strong for years with high quality women who are not exclusive girlfriends.

- See her once every 7-10 days for fun dates (Date = fun activity and a meal. Girls I'm with typically pay, but we never discuss it).
- No contact between dates except to invite her on the next date.
- Dates kept between 3-5 hours. No overnights (unless she books us a trip somewhere and/or has been extra good lately).
- No gifts. No "I love you." No spilling your guts out to her. No talking about other guys (good or bad). No talking about other girls (good or bad). Always treat other people you encounter with respect and class. No talking politics. No talking religion. No talking bad about anything, really.
- Keep everything light and playful and never, ever let conversation get serious (unless she is begging you to be her BF and then you have to negotiate the terms of how the relationship will continue).
- Everything out of my mouth is a joke in order to make her laugh, or a question to get to know her better. I rarely talk about myself.

[Jack D. Serrano]

(11-14-2011 12:44 AM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

But the truth is my personality is a turn off for a lot of girls when discussing certain issues.

True of many guys.

Maybe it would be a good idea simply to NOT discuss certain issues.
Let her wonder whether you agree/disagree.
Let her wonder what you opinions are.
Let her wonder.

(11-14-2011 12:44 AM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

I had a girl ask me over drinks what I thought of [some retarded art museum in DC]. I said it was boring as hell and I couldn't wait to leave. I don't know how to feign interest because the idea of feigning interest in [retarded art museum] is almost as bad as going to said art museum.

No need to feign interest or tell her your real opinion (that it sucks).

I follow a simple rule: Make her laugh.

Girl: "So what do you think of [some retarded art museum in DC]??"
Me: "I think it's great. Especially in summertime. But my favorite flavor is strawberry."
Girl: "Haha. What??"
Me: "You said what do I think of ice cream right?"
Girl: "Haha. No!"
Me: "So how about you. What do you think of [some retarded art museum in DC]?"

[YoungGunner]

It's been mentioned in the thread about "Disadvantages for Good Looking Guys" that if you are above average looking you should tone down the asshole game a bit, as it'll be considered overkill for the girl and she might begin to question whether she'll be just another fuck for you. When I've been with girls who've considered me good looking, I have to change my tone to make ass-holish comments sound more sarcastic and make sure she knows I'm teasing rather than insulting when I make a comment about her habits/style. Of course, another problem that arises with this is that if a girl tries to evoke some response from you or gives you some shit test, retorting with a cocky or assholish comment, or turning the focus on one of her flaws, might scare her off. So if she tries to make some of those comments about you being insensitive or some other shit meant to evoke a response I just go cold and ignore it.

[Samseau]

Jack, you run Doc Love game.

What is the average age of the women you date?

[Jack D. Serrano]

(11-16-2011 12:07 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Jack, you run Doc Love game.

I run - "approach 30 hot women a day, disqualify girls who aren't exactly what I want and with whom I share instant mutual chemistry and then have fun dates with the many really wonderful, quite beautiful women who are left" - game.

But then again, I was never very good at catchy names.

(11-16-2011 12:07 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

What is the average age of the women you date?

Ignoring one night stands or sex-only flings, and only speaking of women who I date - They range from 18 - Mid 30's. At the moment, the average is 24 (or 22 years old if I count girls who I have dated for less than 10 dates.)

Please don't confuse this with "(or 10 years old if I count girls who I have dated for less than 22 dates."
(Oh yeah, when I said "Make her laugh" above ... do NOT use jokes like this. It is NOT a good joke to make on a date.)

[Samseau]

(11-16-2011 12:29 AM)Jack D. Serrano Wrote:  

(11-16-2011 12:07 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Jack, you run Doc Love game.

I run - "approach 30 hot women a day, disqualify girls who aren't exactly what I want and with whom I share instant mutual chemistry and then have fun dates with the many really wonderful, quite beautiful women who are left" - game.

But then again, I was never very good at catchy names.

(11-16-2011 12:07 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

What is the average age of the women you date?

Ignoring one night stands or sex-only flings, and only speaking of women who I date - They range from 18 - Mid 30's. At the moment, the average is 24 (or 22 years old if I count girls who I have dated for less than 10 dates.)

Please don't confuse this with "(or 10 years old if I count girls who I have dated for less than 22 dates."
(Oh yeah, when I said "Make her laugh" above ... do NOT use jokes like this. It is NOT a good joke to make on a date.)

I don't think you understand.

Quote:

- See her once every 7-10 days for fun dates (Date = fun activity and a meal. Girls I'm with typically pay, but we never discuss it).
- No contact between dates except to invite her on the next date.
- Dates kept between 3-5 hours. No overnights (unless she books us a trip somewhere and/or has been extra good lately).
- No gifts. No "I love you." No spilling your guts out to her. No talking about other guys (good or bad). No talking about other girls (good or bad). Always treat other people you encounter with respect and class. No talking politics. No talking religion. No talking bad about anything, really.
- Keep everything light and playful and never, ever let conversation get serious (unless she is begging you to be her BF and then you have to negotiate the terms of how the relationship will continue).
- Everything out of my mouth is a joke in order to make her laugh, or a question to get to know her better. I rarely talk about myself.

That is EXACTLY what this guy proposes:

http://www.doclove.com/

It's part of his "system". My friend ran the system game and now he's been going out with the same girl for almost 2 years. He lives with her. I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, but needless to say his success story so far inspires me.

[Jack D. Serrano]

(11-21-2011 01:39 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

That is EXACTLY what this guy proposes:

http://www.doclove.com/

It's part of his "system". My friend ran the system game and now he's been going out with the same girl for almost 2 years. He lives with her. I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, but needless to say his success story so far inspires me.

I'm familiar with his material (as I'm familiar with a lot of material).
Excellent, common-sense dating strategies from what I've heard of it.

However, most everything I mentioned in my post has simply been the most common sense way (from my perspective) for me to easily date lots of the quality of women I like simultaneously, while letting them chase me and not have things fall apart with girls when I am not willing to be exclusive with them. I thought it was fairly mainstream knowledge that you shouldn't talk politics/religion/negative stuff on dates and that seeing a girl more than once a week, contacting her all the time, or spending the night with her would send her the message that you want more a more serious relationship. A lot of it was probably from modeling my dad's behavior with my mom when I was growing up. Light, playful, always joking, never serious, no "sharing your feelings", etc.

Again, I'm avoiding calling what I do Doc Love game on purpose (you're free to call it anything you like). Mainly because I don't know the specifics of his system and because, even though I've only read a certain portion of what he has written, I've already seen things from him that are *very* different from what I do.

Although, with regards to any similarities about certain actions I take, I'm sure your observations are completely valid and correct.

[BortimusPrime]

I think the simplest response to the OP is that saying something that sounds angry isn't really giving off that "doesn't give a shit" vibe. (Body language and context can make a big difference but your examples sound pretty hostile when written down.) Truly not giving a shit means the fat chick double tagging a pair of turkey legs is invisible to you.

And I'm saying this as a reactive person that loves providing social commentary in public.