[Oak]

I wish someone could do an average manhour per lay graph by year.We probably could have rebuilt western civilisation with all the man hours wasted getting mediocre pussy.

I could easily have learnt 1 or even 2 languages from the amount of time I've spent on this shit. And I don't mean a fake and gay language like French. I mean 2 actual languages that men use, like Russian or biblical Greek.

Increasingly rather than enjoy a new lay, I lie there in self-disgust at the sheer amount of time and energy I've had to spend to bed an average, totally uninteresting girl.

I'm already looking back on 2018 with nostalgia. That's how quick things are changing.

There are still some decent girls out there but there's a huge supply/demand problem and it affects their behavior.

And for any girl above a 7 it's like a game of 4d chess, at least on the messaging side and getting them out.

Also, if you factor in gays (who can get laid on demand), guys lying, and guys who use sugar babies/escorts, the number is probably closer to 40%.

[BlueMark]

(04-06-2019 09:26 PM)Oak Wrote:  

I wish someone could do an average manhour per lay graph by year.We probably could have rebuilt western civilisation with all the man hours wasted getting mediocre pussy.

I could easily have learnt 1 or even 2 languages from the amount of time I've spent on this shit. And I don't mean a fake and gay language like French. I mean 2 actual languages that men use, like Russian or biblical Greek.

Increasingly rather than enjoy a new lay, I lie there in self-disgust at the sheer amount of time and energy I've had to spend to bed an average, totally uninteresting girl.

I'm already looking back on 2018 with nostalgia. That's how quick things are changing.

There are still some decent girls out there but there's a huge supply/demand problem and it affects their behavior.

And for any girl above a 7 it's like a game of 4d chess, at least on the messaging side and getting them out.

Also, if you factor in gays (who can get laid on demand), guys lying, and guys who use sugar babies/escorts, the number is probably closer to 40%.

We all end up paying for sex one way or another. This was true in the days of marriage 1.0 (unless you got a dowry) and it is still true today.

[Ternarydemonite]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful...dium=web2x



I don't have a chart for men, but this 500 swipe data chart from the point of view of a reasonably attractive, young woman is on point. Basically she went on dates with 6 guys from 80 matches, and made click with 3. Notably, the woman ranked guys on the experience factor, not sexual factor: good dates, bad matches, etc. She seemed down to earth.

As you can see, for young and/or attractive women, sex is such a foregone conclusion that they just take it like going for sushi. One day they wake up horny, and they can be with one or five guys in a week, depending on her hormonal drive.

As for relationship game, for young and/or attractive women, a relationship with a guy that fulfills their current checklist is technically a certainty, due to the amount an relative quality of the higher betas and alphas in the sexual market. That they just elect to be single or to rationalize excuses to not be in a relationship with guy number XX. option of the year, is another story.

A chart for men would be 90% swipe right, and about a 2% success rate (sex), assuming the guy is at least a 7 if not an 8 on the sexual marketplace. It is basically a lottery for the attractive guys even, as you need to be at the precise week of the month, she wanting sex with a guy with xx. check-boxes, etc.

I don't really see guys that are 5 and below in the sexual marketplace being able to have sex naturally anymore. Guys who are 6 may get one bang per year with a fat lady.

As some posters have indicated, minorities and guys who are even a 5 can get laid with editorially curated photography, excellent clothing, personal style done by a personal branding manager, etc. This assumes that the guy has the disposable income to pay for it, and balls, of course.

[Leonard D Neubache]

When I say that guys should plan to jump off the cunt-carousel the moment it becomes difficult to get a barely legal girl into a relationship I'm not kidding.

Age 25 tops if you don't want to put yourself through a world of misery. That's a bitter pill to swallow for late bloomers but it's a flat out reality. Once a girl falls into the daily grind of work, phone, booze, casual sex then she's fucking done. Our nonsense corporate driven culture tells men that they should find a woman who's finally ready to settle down. We know here what trash that is, but not many people talk about the total implications of calling that lie out.

It means that a woman in her mid 20's is rarely ready to "settle down" and can't be made to. Even if you got her to marry she'd be like a drug addict that got clean without ever hitting rock bottom. Just another disaster waiting to happen.

For a lot of guys getting a lifelong LTR who can go from "gap year" to "pregnant" is no longer an option but for any that can still manage it then that's your window to avoid this bullshit.

Snag them young and train them well. Shelter dogs are a long bet.

[Ouroboros]

(04-07-2019 02:30 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

When I say that guys should plan to jump off the cunt-carousel the moment it becomes difficult to get a barely legal girl into a relationship I'm not kidding.

Age 25 tops if you don't want to put yourself through a world of misery. That's a bitter pill to swallow for late bloomers but it's a flat out reality. Once a girl falls into the daily grind of work, phone, booze, casual sex then she's fucking done. Our nonsense corporate driven culture tells men that they should find a woman who's finally ready to settle down. We know here what trash that is, but not many people talk about the total implications of calling that lie out.

It means that a woman in her mid 20's is rarely ready to "settle down" and can't be made to. Even if you got her to marry she'd be like a drug addict that got clean without ever hitting rock bottom. Just another disaster waiting to happen.

For a lot of guys getting a lifelong LTR who can go from "gap year" to "pregnant" is no longer an option but for any that can still manage it then that's your window to avoid this bullshit.

Snag them young and train them well. Shelter dogs are a long bet.

I don't disagree that younger girls are preferable to older ones.

But it seems irresponsible to start a family without the economic means to support one. And most men at age 25 are not in a great financial position.

It's a shame that by the time many of us have achieved sufficient career success to support a family we'll be in our 30s or maybe even 40s, by which time socially acceptable age gaps for marrying fertile/un-jaded women are no longer in our favour, at least in Western countries...

Thankfully there are greener pastures abroad

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(04-06-2019 09:04 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

(04-06-2019 08:55 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

(04-06-2019 08:32 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

...
We'd be better off as a society if there were 50% less men around, that's just the honest truth.

The way matters are progressing. Give it time...

That is how it is supposed to be and was for the longest of times, you don't need the male population to be anywhere close to 50% or even 40% in society. The main reason women can get away with so much in some places is because the high male population drives thirst and thirst is what you see playing out: fatties getting treated like queens, White Knighting, feminism having unparalleled support, and a laundry list of other things. No one wants to be in a nightclub or bar that's a sausagefest, what we have come close to experiencing is society on a larger scale turning into that. It also shows off in the attitude of women as women from cultures where men are in overabundance tend to be narcissists who feel entitled to everything and feel that they deserve special treatment for being women.

Other men are NOT your friends.

I have learned this lesson the hard way most of the times. Even look at the tale of two cities, you are bound to have not just a more pleasant game experience in a city where single women outnumber single men but also a much more pleasant social experience. Other men are not at your throat, the atmosphere is more tame, and you are more likely to get along with people. Even your fellow man starts to slowly get an abundance mentality going and men who are not deprived/thirsty are less likely to harm other men or scheme against other men.

If it were just a matter of numbers, college-aged men would be doing better since there are more women than men in college.

But you don't hear about that. Instead you hear about what's already being discussed on this thread: #metoo, careerism, smart phones.

I have come to the conclusion that technology has started to wreck the culture. Technology is like spice. A little is great; too much and you ruin everything.

Smart phones and social media not only make it impossible to talk to people day-to-day, they have also created a network that's causing massive anti-sex and anti-male hysteria. Violent crime statistics do not show any spike in sexual assault -- in fact that's way down since the 1990s. Nor do the stats show human trafficking is a real problem.

And yet social media has made people insane about these things. As with religion and school, women don't think to question what they're being told. So they buy the hysteria, all the while staring at their screens.

***

A few years ago I wrote a post on here about how I used to buy shirts with goofy sayings on them for $2 at the local Salvation Army, because they were conversation starters. Women would see the shirts and comment. One shirt in particular got multiple women asking about it.

These days that post would be irrelevant because NO ONE IS LOOKING AT ANYONE'S SHIRTS!! Their noses are in their smart phones. That's how much has changed in five years.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(04-07-2019 09:13 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 02:30 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

When I say that guys should plan to jump off the cunt-carousel the moment it becomes difficult to get a barely legal girl into a relationship I'm not kidding.

Age 25 tops if you don't want to put yourself through a world of misery. That's a bitter pill to swallow for late bloomers but it's a flat out reality. Once a girl falls into the daily grind of work, phone, booze, casual sex then she's fucking done. Our nonsense corporate driven culture tells men that they should find a woman who's finally ready to settle down. We know here what trash that is, but not many people talk about the total implications of calling that lie out.

It means that a woman in her mid 20's is rarely ready to "settle down" and can't be made to. Even if you got her to marry she'd be like a drug addict that got clean without ever hitting rock bottom. Just another disaster waiting to happen.

For a lot of guys getting a lifelong LTR who can go from "gap year" to "pregnant" is no longer an option but for any that can still manage it then that's your window to avoid this bullshit.

Snag them young and train them well. Shelter dogs are a long bet.

I don't disagree that younger girls are preferable to older ones.

But it seems irresponsible to start a family without the economic means to support one. And most men at age 25 are not in a great financial position.

It's a shame that by the time many of us have achieved sufficient career success to support a family we'll be in our 30s or maybe even 40s, by which time socially acceptable age gaps for marrying fertile/un-jaded women are no longer in our favour, at least in Western countries...

Thankfully there are greener pastures abroad

Your great grandparents raised your grandparents and their five siblings in a two bedroom house handing down everything from the oldest to the youngest.

You are never rich enough to have kids.

You are never too poor to have kids.

We choose our own struggles. Personally I'm happier struggling with money than struggling with a cunt wife and spoiled kids.

[puckerman]

This discussion ties back into this incident in New York last year. You all may remember Natasha Aponte. She's the woman who got hundreds of men to show up for a Tinder date with her:

thread-69718.html

[Barron]

Man, I've lived abroad almost four years now. Just took my Russian girl's virginity, gonna make her my serious ltr. This shit seems like the Twilight Zone to me

[N°6]

In England and Wales (ons.gov.uk, 2015), the ages of women giving birth to their first children and marrying for the first time was 30 and 35 respectively.

This pushed men’s corresponding average ages even higher thus prolonging their adolescences.

Men are not only waiting for women to tire from the carousel and shacking up arrangements and settle but waiting for the honour to bring up their bastards too.

[puckerman]

This was an interesting observation from the Heartiste article, and it kind of holds true with what I have seen:

Quote:

I’ve been out of the dating market for a decade and a half but going by observation, the scene is not good. My office is in a premium nightlife district and the revelers come out on Thursday and Friday evenings. The average early-twenties girl, if she’s not otherwise an upper class superficially assimilated brown or yellow, is a 5. As someone observed, the guys don’t even look for a pretty face any more; her merely not-being-chunky lights up everyone’s radar.

On the other hand, girls in middle school and high school are no different than they were three decades ago, across all (White) social classes. Too young for the single adult man to go after, but that’s where a teenage boy has to stake his claim: until we again have the social structures for healthy pairing and marriage, the 17-year-old boy is best advised to knock up and wed his high school girlfriend if he has a good one, and have both sets of parents help financially.

— avoiding a descent-of-Man retrogression from tall/blond/blue-eyed to short/black/brown prehistory

Preventing that retrogression is the material purpose of man on this Earth.

Okay. i am almost 48 and graduated high school in 1989. We didn't know the Internet existed back then. I know a few couples from high school who are still together and seem pretty happy with their lives. Social media shows they are still together.

When I lived in Columbus, it wasn't unusual for people to go home and visit their parents on the weekend and then meet up with someone else who grew up in their home town.

It's still happening back in my hometown that people are marrying high-school sweethearts. They actually seem happier than people who get married later. Of course, I don't know how many of them are staying together.

[Hedonist94]

(03-31-2019 01:54 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Obviously, of those 30%, most probably could get sex if they took some (increasingly) radical action. Lost weight (americans are FAT), hit the weights, dressed better, all that. Even so, how many guys, even on here, seem to have to do extreme measures such as shooting up roids to have good success? Hair plugs.

What it comes down to. Porn+Games+Low test and the market just isn't worth it. Just isn't worth it to stick your dick in fatty miss feminist after spending hours and hours on self improvement. The market is just bad. Overpriced. A bubble.

Bubble is the right way to put it.

While the data for these graphs could be a little suspect it's still interesting to note that the last time the 18-29 age bracket peaked above 15% was right before the dotcom bubble burst in 2000. As another poster mentioned here the number of 18-29 women not having sex seems to have plummeted right around 2008.

Consider also how Japan's Hikikomori problems began in the years following it's market crash in the late 80s. Following the crash, the BOJ reacted by engaging in the experiment known today as quantitative easing. This experiment is still ongoing today and was repeated in the Western world.



It does make sense that a monetary policy which inflates financial assets by printing trillions of dollars, could also distort the SMP.

Additionally, inflating things like real estate prices tends to price younger men out of the real estate market, which probably doesn't help things.

I think the impact of technology is a little overstated. Japan's crisis began before smartphones, Internet porn, or social media. While there are feedback loops involved and smartphones and the rest have played a role, the technology made available on the market could be a response to a demand brought on by cultural/economic changes. Said differently, technology is sometimes (though not always) downstream from culture. This could be one of those situations.

The availability of cheap credit in a bubble economy seems to inflate women's value in the sexual market place.

(03-31-2019 01:28 PM)Heuristics Wrote:  

Believe it or not, I don’t think it’s about looks for young men, other than being skinny and not fat. I think it’s about social circle and socializing for that matter. Men that game all the time are at a fundamental disadvantage because they’re socializing in the wrong way. Rather than socializing with male peers in real life, or women at house parties, they’re on the cell phone or social media, or having headsets on playing fortnight. If you don’t put yourself out there, you don’t get anything. They’re not putting themselves out there.

You want to maximize your career, your looks, confidence, everything. You can't really ignore anything. As for not putting yourselves out there... again I'm not sure. A typical guy is surrounded by girls while they're growing up in high school, when they go to college, and in the working world. Do women actually want those guys at their house parties?

[Aurini]

I've been thinking about writing the following for some weeks now, but I've been having trouble with phrasing things in a way that doesn't sound whiny. But these numbers fit with what I've been experiencing, which is the following: looks-wise, I've got nothing to complain about with the women I've been seeing. No substantial deviation from the past. But emotionally speaking, I'm blown away by the callousness and outright cruelty that's present in them. Dating used to be fun - these days it's like an extended psychological struggle, and I'm thinking of going back to celibacy because the companionship is 0, and the sex is just not worth it.

So with that said, let's dig into these numbers.

2008: 1/10 men in their twenties are incel.

This is probably the historical norm - 5-10% of men lose the genetic lottery (more variation in our sex) and a certain percentage of them simply don't deserve a woman. These are the Omegas in Sociosexual hierarchy. The basement dwelling neckbeards, who reek of desperation and video games. Nothing to see here.

2018: 3/10 men in their twenties are incel.

At first blush, these numbers might suggest that women are getting more picky - the top 20% of men are getting an increasing share of the sexual market. But I have reason to suspect that this isn't the case. 33% of those incels are the same Omegas from yesteryear - but the other 67%? Are they the 2/10 and the 3/10 guys? I'm not so sure about that. There have been some major shifts if the female population over the past decade.

1) Birth Control & Aspergers

There was a report that came out recently (points to whomever can find the thread we had on this) showing that the birth control pill causes temporary Asperger-like symptoms in women. Let's be precise in what this means: it does not mean "They turn into a geek that likes to collect comic books." It means that somebody has difficulty recognizing or understanding emotional cues, particularly the more complex ones. Women tend to get the same enjoyment out of talking that we get out of building, so aspie women aren't obviously socially dysfunctional the way aspie men are. But they are dysfunctional. Relationship-wise, they'll fail to understand what effect they're having on you with their words and actions. For instance, if they say something nasty and hurtful, the emotion displayed on your face - pain and frustration that somebody you care about is being so insulting - will be interpreted as simple anger.

How can you be around somebody who accuses you of feeling one thing, and refuses to believe otherwise? No matter what you say, her brain is telling her "Emotion Identified: Anger" and any protestations otherwise on your part will be read as manipulation.

Widespread antideperessant and antipsychotic usage likely contributes to this emotional coldness as well.

2) Cultural disrespect for men

We all see this; we all know what this is. Men are depicted as foolish, brutish, simple creatures in most media. Even 'positive' depictions of masculinity lack nuance; Rappers, Action Heroes quipping one-liners, showboating athletes. Heck, look at the bubble-gum media: Luke Skywalker encountered hard moral dilemmas, weighing his commitment to family and friends vs the Force. He was thoughtful. Is there anything remotely close to that in the new Star Wars or Marvel movies?

Masculinity has been reduced to a plastic shell. Certain women have complained in the past about the 'supermodel' culture, where a woman's worth is reduced to her bust size. Men have been similarly reduced, and this is exacerbated by the inability of women to recognize emotion, pointed out in 1).

3) Pro-woman culture

Let's just bullet-point some of the artificial advantages women have here:

• Various incentive programs giving women an unearned advantage over men in school and the workplace,
• Women can do anything a man can do, and do it better, and men can't do what a woman can do - so what are men useful for?
• A lack of sexual shaming, enabling women to do whatever they want with their pussies - post it all over the net, use it to manipulate beta orbiters, cheat on their husbands, et cetera. "I've got the pussy, and I can do whatever I want with it!"
• A legal system which bends over backwards to protect their interests: when the courts go out of their way to punish domestic violence... let me clarify something here: domestic violence is wrong! But - sometimes it happened because the woman was using her tongue like a knife, ripping into her husband until he snapped. These days, women have no reason to hold back, and some will lay into you with impudence, while smiling because you can't do anything in return.
• General permissiveness and hedonism; widespread drug use; radical individualism which argues that nobody has any obligation to others - not to their parents, not to their friends or lovers, and not to society.
  

To sum it all up - women have been so puffed up that they act like they're goddesses. Nothing they do is wrong - cheating on their boyfriend, stealing from their employers, being overweight - all of these things are celebrated. Meanwhile, men are demonized if they don't provide the utility which women want. I forget the four-stages of rationalization that AnonymousBosch laid out, but one of them really stuck with me: "Anything I want, I deserve."

All of this taken together: the women in the west have about as much respect and love for men, as the soldiers in Ghengis Khan's horde had for women! Reciprocity is gone, amongst all but the most exceptional women; the majority feel entitled to anything and everything from the men, while any request for equal consideration is considered a vile form of "male entitlement".

Unicorn Hunting?

I've had some people misunderstand me when I've spoken about this, and think that I'm unicorn hunting: looking for that perfect catgirl/waifu who'll pat me on the head for winning a video game, and celebrate my mediocrity. That's not it at all. I'm looking for a woman who knows that she inherited Eve's sin, and does what she can to fight against it - even if she fails regularly.

This particular biblical story is about how men and women screw up their relationships with each other. Eve allows herself to be deceived, feels entitled to whatever she wants, and sneakily seizes control of the relationship from Adam - leading, when she should be following. Adam, meanwhile, acts like the Beta - "Happy wife, happy life!" he says, as he knowingly goes along with her stupid idea, because he's too lazy to take control or responsibility, and her pussy just smelled that good.

The nature of women - to fitness-test her mate, to selectively choose the Alpha over the Beta, to gather up a store of resources to provide for her children - these are natural and good. I love a woman that loves me for being a badass. What Eve's sin implies is that they take these naturally good things, and go too far with them. Instead of fitness testing, you get nuclear shit tests. Instead of preparing for a rainy day, women justify monkey-branching at the drop of a hat.

I know one woman - my buddy's girlfriend - who actively resists the extremes here, and delights in nurturing him. Instead of trying to undermine him, she uses her feminine wiles to encourage him to be more Alpha. She's not a stupid woman, either; nor is she particular submissive. She's smart, judgmental, insightful - but she's also aware that human nature is prone to going bad, so she tries to make herself good.

Sadly, she is the exception. Most women feel absolute no obligation to men, and are more than happy to extract whatever they want while offering nothing in return.

Who's banging these bitches?

10% of the incels are losers; but are the remaining 20% the Deltas or Betas that don't measure up?

I'm not so sure about that.

I see a lot of suggestive evidence that the some of men who succeed in this environment are not Alpha in the sort of way that we'd describe - a lot of them are out of shape, their sexual equipment is questionable, and they're not particularly wealthy. So what is their advantage?

Low emotional affect. Which is to say, borderline psychopathy.

The entitlement-complex infesting most women has effectively turned them into psychopaths; they're not psychopaths clinically speaking, but because the culture has taught them that men don't have souls, they treat men with utter callousness. So, the only sort of men who can tolerate their company for an extended period of time are those who similarly lack affect. Those who are after one thing, and are willing to lie and manipulate to get it.

We have a coarsened culture, with coarse women, and a coarse dating scene. Those who will dropping out from this aren't necessarily the chumps - they're the men who have souls.

[for.petes.sake]

I would love to see a similar study done on India. India is heading towards a demographic crisis because of the huge imbalance in gender ratio.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India

It is the first time in history we have seen a nation (including china) with so much more men than women. Sex crimes and harassment have become a common day occurrence in the daily life of an Indian. I saw a documentary on whole crisis and widened my eyes with what is going on there. The documentary even showed a 36 year old man cry because he had never had a girlfriend. I believe that in the future we will have major war just only fueled by sexual frustration. But what also intrigued me is how long this problem has has been going on for and how long it has been known by the general population. Basically the general population has known about the problems of gender selective abortion since 2001 (even the most rural areas got tallies on their medical wards to keep count of the ratio). Completely getting rid of ultrasound will not fix the problem. The documentary showed how the majority in rural areas just kill their daughter after birth because they can’t afford abortions. All this madness is done just to avoid paying dowry and raising a daughter. This info reminded me what a fellow forum member (Leonard D Neubache) said:
“A principle.

It's a foreign concept to them that a braindead, inbred literal retard from Pakistan sees no duality in stealing from others while bemoaning any theft of his own property, much the same as a dog will steal bones from other dogs and then viciously defend his own pile of bones as if he had the mandate of heaven behind him.”
Basically in India they want a son to get a dowry payment and to look after them. However if a daughter is shown on the monitor then abort it because who needs one. Never mind that life is supposed to random and for future generations we need a good ratio. But screw everyone else, I do not want to pay dowry or raise a daughter.

Also I feel like this problem is coming to the West to. I graduated from high school in Brampton in 2011 and my school was 99 percent Punjabi. We had 2 guys for every girl (I am not making this up I actually counted my yearbook). Now I have come back to Toronto from the States and I am realizing a lot of these problems and why they exist.

Honestly I have been given a better insight on even the IRT problems that persist on the forum. Basically Indian guy moves to the West and he is filled with so much sexual frustration. He has been raised by a mother who basically does everything for him and continually praises him. He watches Bollywood and learns all the beta behaviors such as completely stalking a girl. But he also watches Hollywood movies and see guys like Tom Cruise easily picking up on women on film and thinks it will be easy for him too (his mom has been calling him handsome everyday of his life). Then reality hits him in the West and he doesn’t know what else to do with his pent up frustrations. I am South Asian too so I am not trying to make a race debate but trying to delve deeper into the culture problems there. I am hoping for a major cultural shift.

[Aurini]

The whole modern situation is like a bunch of people going around writing bad cheques, and refusing to take responsibility for it. "Dogs with the mandate of heaven behind them," as Leonard said. Whether it's the women here in the West, running roughshod over men - or the Indian families aborting the girls - we're headed towards a demographic and psychological disaster, and so few are taking any responsibility for it.

[Graft]

Aurini makes a great point about the total callousness and utter ruthlessness in young women. They just seem to try and extract whatever they can out of you and ghost you after. No thank you's for all the time and money you spent entertaining them, just a disappearance and block. The whole thing seems completely inauthentic and transactional.

I've barely been dating in the past couple of months because of how disheartening the whole thing is. At this point, women have been such a consistently negative factor in my life that any romanticism has long left me.

[Rorogue]

(04-07-2019 08:59 PM)Graft Wrote:  

Aurini makes a great point about the total callousness and utter ruthlessness in young women. They just seem to try and extract whatever they can out of you and ghost you after. No thank you's for all the time and money you spent entertaining them, just a disappearance and block. The whole thing seems completely inauthentic and transactional.

I've barely been dating in the past couple of months because of how disheartening the whole thing is. At this point, women have been such a consistently negative factor in my life that any romanticism has long left me.

Are you in an ultra feminist city like Seattle or Toronto, or just a regular one?

[JoeSomebody]

I've read every post in this thread and I'd love to give everyone a rep point for their incredibly insightful and dead-on accurate assessment of the current situation. You guys are the true 5%ers who "get it". I however am going to go down a different avenue though and put a lot of the blame on the men themselves rather than blame the women and/or the culture as to why there are so many men not having sex.

The culture is shit. The women are shit. No surprise here. We ALL know this. If we didn't, we wouldn't be part of the Roosh V Forum. And every reason any of you have mentioned as to why so many American adults are sexless (men and women) is 100% accurate and valid. As a whole, as just one man in this world, we are each just a drop in the bucket and the bigger picture is completely out of our control. All we can do is control our lives and ourselves to the best of our ability and work with the cards we were dealt.

I believe the two biggest factors, which are somewhat controllable as to why so many men are not getting laid are these two: most women do not find most men SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE and most women do not find most men MENTALLY STIMULATING/ARROUSING. In other words, most men in women's eyes at best are average looking and quite boring. And guess what, as a fellow man who knows my fellow man, they are not wrong in this assessment. Yes, women's standards are sky high, they are unrealistic, and downright laughable as they themselves outside of 3 holes have very little to offer a man. Not complaining, just explaining. But let me expand on the 2 bold points I've made

SEXUAL ATTRACTIVENESS:

As we live in an ever increasing visual world, this has probably become the #1 factor in a woman desiring to sleep with you. Genetics I believe was always one of the most important (if not the most) factors even back in the early days of man. These days however, men are not needed like they were in the past so now you have a shitload of women selecting men for sex SOLELY based on LOOKS. That is face, height, body, and that's just for starters. Average is not cutting it anymore, even for an AVERAGE chick. Even she demands access to men in the upper-aesthetic echelon. We all know about their sky high standards and they are not changing anytime soon. So I ask my fellow man this: Would you want to fuck you?

I ask this because as I carry myself through everyday life, I look at a large majority of my fellow men and think, fuck, if I was a chick I wouldn't want to fuck him either. A lot of this in genetic/out of their hands, but a good amount of it is very controllable. We all know your genetics will put a ceiling on how attractive you can be. I sometimes feel for the guys who are 5'5, but that is the hand they were dealt. The problem is a lot of men are not MAXIMIZING their appearance to give themselves the best shot at succeeding. This alone, may only net you slightly better results but would you rather have 5 lays a year or none? Exactly. I work in the airlines, I see people day in and day out. Men, women, young, old, different races, different socio-ecnomic backgounds, the works. I'm going to be harsh, but fair here. Most men are NOT sexually attractive to women. 80/20 rule applies, but I'm starting to think more 85/15, or 90/10. Yea, I'm dead serious. I watched an aircraft deplane yesterday at the terminal and just for fun I wanted to play a game and see how many men and women I'd deem sexually attractive to the opposite sex. About 160 plus people deplaned and I'm telling you, NOT ONE male or female I deemed to be attractive to the opposite sex. Not one. Working with a ton of women, they confirm this also. What I saw in the men: obesity, beer bellies, bad teeth, balding, bad haircuts, bad facial hair, disgusting tattoos, sloppy clothes, I can go on and on. Goofy walks, bad posture, looks of confusion and uncertainty, lack of presence, overall discombobulation. If I'm a heterosexual man and observe this, what the fuck do you think a picky ass woman in the year 2019 is going to see? A lot of this is controllable, but if they haven't gotten the memo now, they aren't going to get it and I don't feel bad for them. Right of the bat, women are saying NO in their head before you even approach them.

MENTAL STIMULATION:

Women are just as visual as men, maybe even more so. They are generally more selective as well. No shocker there either. What they do require also that men necessarily don't require is for their mind to be seduced and stimulated. Mental foreplay if you want to call it that. Some require more than others and the dumber and less savvy the girl is, the less she will require. No this is not about smooth talk or saying the right thing at the right time. Fuck that. This is about you, as a man, being fucking INTERESTING. News flash fellas: most men are NOT interesting. Women feel the same way. They don't find most men mentally stimulating or arousing. This is not about curating an interesting IG to show off your amazing life, nor is it about being a clown. This is about you, in the physical presence of a female, to have something(s) about you that draws a woman closer to you and makes her want to find out more if the requisite attraction is there. How is your speaking voice? Do people like to hear you speak? Are you a good story teller? Can you laugh at her and yourself? Can you read a female or pick up on something about her and inject that into the convo on the fly? Do you put your balls on the line? Are you too scared to say something a bit off color because you are a fucking pussy? Are you charismatic? Are you the guy that men and women alike want to be around at a party or event because you have that "it" factor? Do you leave an impression on women either good or bad? Do you stir up her emotions? I can answer these questions for most men. Most of them are hard NO'S. Now if I'm a man and can see this in other men, don't you think women in the year 2019 who need to constantly be mentally stimulated (along with visually) notice this as well? Of course they do. Quick story: I'm in Florida last night at a burger place with a co-worker and the NCAA basketball tournament is on. I'm a former and current athlete myself (not pro) and have played competitive sports all my life. So I'm by no means a sports hater. Do you know 90% of the men in this establishment of all races, sizes, and colors are yelling at the television,
are dressed like clowns, and are stuffing their pie holes with fries and beer? Do you think the hot little 25 year old behind the bar finds that attractive? She doesn't. Yea sure, time and place, out with the boys, I get all of that. Just observations I'm making. But seriously, take a step back and assess yourself and you might have a lot of the answers as to why you are failing not only with women, but in life.

As I see with my very eyes the sorry state of men (and women), it's no surprise the chart shows those numbers. I only see things getting worse as well. So much is out of our control in this increasingly fucked up world, but at the same time a lot is within our control. Be the very best version of yourself in all aspects, for you first and foremost and then the rest will take care of itself.

[infowarrior1]

(04-07-2019 10:52 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 09:13 AM)Ouroboros Wrote:  

(04-07-2019 02:30 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

When I say that guys should plan to jump off the cunt-carousel the moment it becomes difficult to get a barely legal girl into a relationship I'm not kidding.

Age 25 tops if you don't want to put yourself through a world of misery. That's a bitter pill to swallow for late bloomers but it's a flat out reality. Once a girl falls into the daily grind of work, phone, booze, casual sex then she's fucking done. Our nonsense corporate driven culture tells men that they should find a woman who's finally ready to settle down. We know here what trash that is, but not many people talk about the total implications of calling that lie out.

It means that a woman in her mid 20's is rarely ready to "settle down" and can't be made to. Even if you got her to marry she'd be like a drug addict that got clean without ever hitting rock bottom. Just another disaster waiting to happen.

For a lot of guys getting a lifelong LTR who can go from "gap year" to "pregnant" is no longer an option but for any that can still manage it then that's your window to avoid this bullshit.

Snag them young and train them well. Shelter dogs are a long bet.

I don't disagree that younger girls are preferable to older ones.

But it seems irresponsible to start a family without the economic means to support one. And most men at age 25 are not in a great financial position.

It's a shame that by the time many of us have achieved sufficient career success to support a family we'll be in our 30s or maybe even 40s, by which time socially acceptable age gaps for marrying fertile/un-jaded women are no longer in our favour, at least in Western countries...

Thankfully there are greener pastures abroad

Your great grandparents raised your grandparents and their five siblings in a two bedroom house handing down everything from the oldest to the youngest.

You are never rich enough to have kids.

You are never too poor to have kids.

We choose our own struggles. Personally I'm happier struggling with money than struggling with a cunt wife and spoiled kids.

Having a cunt wife and spoiled kids is money down the drain anyway. Investing more in a healthy well adjusted household is much more important than all the gadgets and material possessions in the world.

A good legacy is sustainable in wealth terms. As generations gradually build up their wealth as a result of doing well in raising their children instead of putting too much stock in stuff.

Instead of being blown by spoiled kids.

[Rorogue]

@JoeSomebody

I totally agree with you about men not being compelling and attractive today.

The problem is many men don't feel driven or compelled to live a fascinating life of self improvement, as they don't see much of a 'pot of gold' at the end of the tunnel in terms of women.

As Aurini said- he can get women, but the women themselves are not pleasant to be around.

Back in 05-06 I was in high school, and all I thought about when doing my homework on a Saturday afternoon was that I'd be at a party later that night with beautiful, feminine girls. I could actually taste their lip gloss on my mouth- the mix of that and smirnoff was intoxicating and wonderful.

Now, men of that age and in their 20s are faced with unfeminine, unpleasant women who think it's 'oppressive' to do anything to make a man happy.

Without this feminine energy nourishing men's masculine spirit, they have no 'Eros', no healthy lover element, no fire to get out there and live a compelling life.

And so their habits become more wasteful, they get less attractive, and generate less interest from women, and the cycle repeats.

I'm sure there's an answer to getting the most out of yourself despite the environment- for every man it's probably different

[Glaucon]

Men's self improvement only worth a damn if women do their self improvement too.

It takes two to tango.

If you do self improvement realize, you should never do it to get the girls, you should do it only for your sake (which is easy to agree to, but very very hard to internalize).

[Aurini]

JoeSomebody and Rorogue - you guys triggered a thought in my mind.

First, the Friday Night Party. God, I miss those things. Whatever happened to them? Am I just getting older, and I can't stand the noise? Maybe... but I've never liked live music. No... it's something else.

You want to talk about unattractive guys? How many of these guys would you want to go out and drink with? I'm back in College right now, upgrading a couple of things, and let me tell you - these young guys might be attractive (who isn't at that age?) but none of them have any fire. They tip-toe around sensitive topics, and the masculine front is the most obvious facade you've ever seen. They pretend that they're men, but just underneath the surface is barely-concealed panic. Are we allowed to talk about this? Would teacher approve?

Given the choice between hanging out with your typical young guy at the bar, or grandma's bridge club - I'll choose the latter. The latter will have funny stories, and they'll enjoy my jokes. Nobody's got a dirtier mind than an old lady. These young guys will be a bunch of wet blankets.

"Hey," I'll say, "What's the difference between a chickpea and a garbanzo bean? I've never had a garbanzo bean on my face!" The old ladies will crack up. The young guys will look shocked. "Hey man, that joke could get us into trouble. The bar isn't really the place for off-colour jokes."

Joe's right; when the men are a bunch of limp noodles, of course the women will turn bitchy.

[yang2287]

(03-31-2019 09:54 AM)Veloce Wrote:  

Yup, forum called it long ago. Why would men even want to?

You've got incels, which must suck.

But then there's those of us that do get laid. This year started out as a pussyfest to me and I had to tell several of them to kick rocks because plate spinning wasn't doing it for me anymore. Every girl I banged has been exactly the same:

-career/college chick in her 20s that wants to travel and the freedom to do whatever she wants, eventually settling down in her 30s. Generally a complete mess, dependent on psych meds or party drugs, not a feminine bone in her body except when it comes to sex, can't cook, won't clean, and has this faux alpha personality like she's in charge yet wants to be dominated completely

-late 20s to mid 30s burnout. Often the more fun to bang just because they're more open sexually and their prowess is unmatched, but again usually accompanying more baggage, single mom bullshit, jaded, wear and tear, etc. Funny thing about these chicks is if they were smart they'd settle down with a guy that's 10 years older, like 40s-early 50s, but no they still go for guys in their mid 30s i.e. their prime, to continue a pattern of getting pumped and dumped.

Given those two choices, it's understandable why anyone would want to opt out. I've recently started dating a girl that is conservative, modest, super hot with low mileage, and I've been confronted with the fact that I might have to settle down with her.

I had to like this post, these are the only categories of women i run into these days

They are only good for banging, LTR? Don't bother, just f*** her

[questor70]

(04-07-2019 01:43 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

"Anything I want, I deserve."

Which is why the Ariana Grande video triggers me. That's the message of the song. There is no ounce of tongue in cheek in it, unlike the song that inspired it.

That song will probably go down as the poster-child of the era we're living in.

(04-07-2019 01:43 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

The entitlement-complex infesting most women has effectively turned them into psychopaths; they're not psychopaths clinically speaking, but because the culture has taught them that men don't have souls, they treat men with utter callousness. So, the only sort of men who can tolerate their company for an extended period of time are those who similarly lack affect. Those who are after one thing, and are willing to lie and manipulate to get it.

A profound and probably bang on theory!

I strongly believe in the Beatles phrase "And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make". You can't expect someone else to emotionally invest in you unless you're equally willing to invest in them. It has to be a two-way street.

(04-07-2019 01:43 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

We have a coarsened culture, with coarse women, and a coarse dating scene. Those who will dropping out from this aren't necessarily the chumps - they're the men who have souls.

This forum is starting to resemble a MGTOW group more and more by the day.

Sign of the times.

Even though I'm an atheist I have these dreams of moving to the midwest to find some blonde girl next door mormon just to escape the zombie plague you're describing.

[nek]

(04-06-2019 08:32 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Every now and then I run into a discussion on a study like this and guys talk about how much the market is fucked. I read a few things on this thread that need to be addressed though because I think it is a bunch of nonsense.

1. The older guy and hot young girl thing is not as common as you think, most young attractive women in the western world are hooking up with younger guys, often exclusively.

You might see those hipster Millennial guys with a beard as pussies but a lot of attractive young women dig that. Most younger women who are well to do or come from well-off families are usually dating younger guys around their age and almost exclusively hooking up with them. In fact, majority of the times these girls would not want anything to do with an older guy and get creeped out when one approaches them. Decent looking younger guys who are socially adjusted are able to get girls around their age, usually through social circle game. Good looking younger guys have their options with younger good looking women as well and will always win out over older guys.

Now this is not to say that a guy above 30 can't get a hot 22 year old, there are hot young women who are open to dating older men. Most of the times though, I find that she is usually not doing well financially or more of an outcast socially compared to the 22 year old hottie with a big social circle who cares about her reputation. The vast majority of good looking younger women I have known have dated or exclusively been with guys around their age.

2. The kinds of Americans who were having sex at a young age decades ago are still having sex in this day and age, Chad and Stacy are still fucking!

The upper middle class spoiled white kids who were fucking in college are still fucking now. One other explanation for the statistics could be due to the fact that we are getting more immigrants from repressed cultures, a white guy from a laid back family is going to have a way different experience than some Asian immigrant with helicopter parents. The people who were fucking and getting laid decades ago are doing the same now, you just have others from more repressed cultures who are not as big on hookup culture and are more focused on building a family life or a nice future for themselves. That skews the statistics a little bit.

There is no sky falling men going extinct nonsense, the guys who have done fine are doing fine. Most socially aware guys are on social media and are assimilated with modern times, it is the guys who are more social outcasts (which I was for a while myself) that are struggling but that's their fault.

3. It is actually real fucking easy to get laid these days with decent looking women, even through online dating.

I use high quality pics done by an editorial photgrapher (thank you BlurredSevens for the suggestion and posting the best thread ever on here), every week I have a date lined up and it does help that I live in a world class city. I am also a minority so to hell with the whole "only white guys can get laid on online dating" nonsense. Maybe it is because I am in a major city but these days, I feel like getting laid is rarely as much of a concern for me, it is more on developing a social life which is for another story. When it comes to game, I feel spoiled by dating apps, and have to almost force myself to approach a woman because I don't really see as much of a need for it. No settling for fatties on dating apps for me, can get dates with relatively above average looking and fit women every week and quite a few guys I know out there can do the same.

If you are a decent enough looking guy who can present himself well and have an ounce of game, go to a major city and you can fuck a decent looking girl every week. No one says you have to rot yourself away in boring suburbia or flyover country where every other girl is a whale, if it matter so much for you then go get it.

4. Most men in general suck.

Most men are hardcore white knights.

Most men are happy with average.

Most men do not see the need to go after greatness.

Most men do not want the sexually active life, they are happy being shut-ins.

Most men do not want to pour their soul into a life purpose or work hard in life, they want the cozy comfortable lifestyle.

Most men will tear down and scheme to sabotage great men that are doing well in life.

Most men are losers who want to drown in their misery and destroy the men who want to achieve greatness.

For the longest of times, I wanted a "social life" and I wanted guys who I could call "friends", I still do. Yet, whenever men saw me doing well with women and having the success I had, we were not friends anymore as they saw me as the guy who was obsessed with pussy, immoral, or wrong for wanting to sleep around with a lot of women. Most men do not want to push each other to greatness or success, especially not with women.

I have slowly learned that as soon as you go on this sexually active path as a man, be prepared to lose the opportunity of friendship with other men who will usually seethe in envy at your success with women. Most men want you to have your 40 hr a week job, drown yourself in beers as you watch sports, and bitch and moan about how miserable life is. It slowly starts to make sense to me why so many players after a certain age do not have any guy friends, who in their right mind would want to be around those that envy them?

We'd be better off as a society if there were 50% less men around, that's just the honest truth.

something to ponder for sure...