Quote: (03-29-2019 08:29 AM)Roosh Wrote:
We have an Orthodox Christianity thread but I wanted to create a more general thread for believers. This is not a thread for pedantic debate about the existence of God or which sect is best. This is for people who already believe in God and want to get closer to Him. (Atheists are free to create their own thread).
I've spent the last 12 hours straight preparing a post for this thread. But it's early morning here and time to go to sleep. I'll see if I can get something done tomorrow. I want it to be coherent.
I'll show the parallels and connections between Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jungian Psychology, Alchemy, Pyschedelic Experiences, Shamanism...
Hopefully.
I will take it as a given that God exists (even though I don't believe in him, I still have faith, but this is not uncommon even among the most devout). And I will also take it as a given that all those aforementioned 'schools' are given equal weight and merit, with respect to getting to the end goal: getting closer to God. As per your directive, Roosh.
It won't be rambling and there won't be any mumbo-jumbo. Hopefully. I will try to show that all these 'things' are just different means to the same end. I'll also give practical advice on finding a 'Church' for you, according to your stage in the journey. That is if you are on the journey. I've been on the road for some time now. This is spoken to all RVF members who are seeking. Those who have already found what they are looking for, will of course have no need of my advice.
Who am I? I'm no one. I'm dirt. I am in the blackest days of my life and I can see no way out. 7 years now I have been in the 'Dark night of the soul'. It is through this metaphor I will make my attempt to tie in all those schools above, from Chrisitianity to Buddhism.
Who am I? I do not know. I know I am not a scholar. I'm not even clever. And I know that I have failed. Totally. Absolutely. This is the dark night of the soul. And just when you think it can't get any worse, it just gets blacker, until one day you are staring in to the void, and then it stares right back at you!
I will paraphrase Jung from one of his works called 'Alchemical Studies': If you are a young man, this is probably not for you. You have been warned. There are great dangers in taking this path. This is not to be taken lightly. There are very real dangers ahead that will manifest if you are not ready to travel this road. If you are unsure, then you are not ready.
It was something like that anyway. If you are a younger man and you are living life and you are happy, then this road is not for you, yet. It will bring you no reward. And even for older men (above 25 say) it is a perilous and treacherous path. Once embarked upon...
You will then come back to this at other periods of your life as you fuse in the concepts of Alchemy, Christ, Buddha, Drugs, Therapy. A synthesis will take place, but only after complete and utter destruction which will only get worse as you age. You will come to know truth, you may even get some comfort, but the price to pay will be a form of torture and torment so great, that many do not come back from it.
Nevertheless, Jungians warn that "acknowledgement of the shadow must be a continuous process throughout one's life"
You can only come to know and be one with death while you are alive.
You will only ever know bliss and true freedom when you are dead.
Is the Buddhist's Nirvana the same as the Christian's Heaven?
This is why we are here: to know God. We are the lucky ones. We get to prepare for eternity. No matter what you call your 'God', we are all equal in the end.
It is in this spirit I'll approach it.
I will give a quick taster.
Ouroboros wrote:
Ecclesiastes 1:13 & 17-18 (KJV)
18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
I first heard about 'Ouroboros' when Jung did his scholarly study and interpretation of the Alchemists in the book of his I just mentioned. It is the snake that eats its own tail. The paradox. The ever going circular argument that can never be settled. The Phoenix, burned to ashes and rising from its own flames. New again. After the most painful process possible. Jung called it the process of Individuation, and it is very much tied to the concept of the Shadow, of resurrection. Both literal and metaphorical. Allegorical.
This is pertinent because the quote there by Ecclesiastes 1:13 & 17-18 (KJV) is something I could link a dozen times to all those different 'schools' I said I was going to connect. Maybe later. In fact, definitely later, I will.
He also quoted DoBA -
---------------------------
Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:
I'm gradually becoming
"black blanketed." I find as I get older, the world gets darker. Not because of any cliched "end times" scenario I imagine, but because all things lose their luster after a while. It's as if someone has thrown a
dark blanket over your worldview.
[...]
One of the unconscious benefits of youth is that when most people are older than you are, you assume those people are somewhat competent and have acquired a certain wisdom that comes with age. But as you actually age, you start to realize most people your age never really gained much wisdom or insight. They're the same screw-ups you knew in middle school, only fatter and balder.
As such, relationships between people change. You no longer pile into the car with your friends and act wild. Everybody's too reserved. Everybody has something to lose. Everyone is on guard to a much greater degree.
[...]
Hence, my new term
"The Black Blanket," which is a bit too awkward to coin as a phrase, but it's all I can come up with tonight.
--------------------
What DoBA is alluding to here, whether he realises it or not is "Nigredo".
In alchemy, nigredo, or blackness, means putrefaction or decomposition. Many alchemists believed that as a first step in the pathway to the philosopher's stone, all alchemical ingredients had to be cleansed and cooked extensively to a uniform black matter.[1]
In analytical psychology, the term became a metaphor 'for the dark night of the soul, when an individual confronts the shadow within'.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigredo
Already things are starting to connect. Alchemy, Jung, Christianity, Ouroboros, DoBA, myself...
DoBA, I say to you:
When you see your matter going black, rejoice, you are at the beginning of the work.
-- Rosarium Philosophorum
https://jungiangenealogy.weebly.com/nigredo.html#
Where you are now, many have been before, and many more are about to go there. Some willingly, some not.
Mortificatiois experienced as defeat and failure. Needless to say, one rarely chooses such an experience. It is usually imposed by life, either from within or from without…. -- Edinger (1985)[4]
I didn't want enlightenment. And I didn't get it. But the quest for it was imposed upon me many years ago. I've already talked about some bad experiences I've had on this very forum and in other 'religious' threads.
Let's just say, that just like greatness, some men have it forced upon them.
DoBA, this 'Black Blanket' of which you speak is very real. It took you to get to this stage with all your requisite wisdom to see it. How much further you decide to look in to the beast or avert your eyes is entirely up to you. Either way, it will never bring you glory. But it might bring you a deeper understanding. Only you know.
Nevertheless, Jungians warn that "acknowledgement of the shadow must be a continuous process throughout one's life";[34] and even after the focus of individuation has moved on to the animus/anima, "the later stages of shadow integration" will continue to take place—the grim "process of washing one's dirty linen in private",[35] accepting one's shadow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)
Jung was clever, but he also had a sense of humour.
Back to Nigredo - putrefaction and mortification. I'll wash a bit of my own dirty linen in public here:
I keep a rotting bag of vegetables in my kitchen. It's ok, no one ever visits. At first you notice something a bit 'off' in the smell, then it gets worse, until the stench gets almost unbearable. Actually it is unbearable, it's enough to make most people gag. But when you live among the stench you get used to it. But you know what, after you get used to it, a funny thing happens: you don't notice it anymore, until one day you walk in to your kitchen and think 'what is that sweet smell? - it is almost like Roses'.
After the vegetables rot, I mean really full on rot, and are totally decomposed, they take on a new 'form'. Who would have thought a stench so foul could give rise to a scent so sweet?
Try it! It's not illegal. It might even impress the chicks!
And this is at the very heart of what we are talking about here.
"The first state is the hidden state, but by art and the grace of God it can be transmuted into a second, manifest state. That is why “the prima materia sometimes coincides with the idea of the initial stage of the process, the nigredo. It is then the black earth in which the gold or the lapis is shown like the grain of wheat. It is the black...~Carl Jung, Psychology and Alchemy. Page 312.
I will talk more about Nigredo and putrefaction and mortification later as it is all related - Buddhism, Christianity, Waste Recycling!
Jung will come up a lot as well as he's already done the heavy lifting. He was a great man. A wise man. A kind man. I'm just the errand boy...
Jung had the utmost respect for Christianity as he did other religions.
He is not a substitute to Christianity, merely a sign post on the path to show you the way to the temple.
"One must be utterly abandoned to God; nothing else matters, but fulfilling God's Will."
--Carl Jung, 'Memories, Dreams, Reflections'.
It's approaching mid day here and I'm about to settle down for the night. I waffled on as usual. You might even say I got my head stuck up my arse? :-)
As for Ouroboros, the Phoenix, the Quest -
The secret is that only that which can destroy itself is truly alive.
~Carl Jung, Psychology and Alchemy, Page 81.
"To save the village we had to burn the village"
There's a lot to get to grips with here. Hold on to your hats, it's going to get hairy...