[Shimmy]

(03-21-2019 02:28 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

So what's the point in going wife hunting in 3rd world countries in LA, EE, and SEA then? Might as well marry an American, pop out a few kids, and keep up with the Joneses with divorce rape hanging over your head, waiting to drop when you least expect it.

(this is not specifically directed at you in particular, Sidney)

Not everyone on this forum is traveling or living outside of the country looking for a wife or looking to escape the west because they hate it. I've actually met dozens of guys from the forum and can't recall one that was "wife hunting". I don't know this guys background but it could be something as simple as he liked living in Peru and made the mistake of accidentally knocking a chick up 3x. Not the smartest thing, but it happens all the time everywhere in the world as does people having kids on purpose with no financial planning ahead of time.

[yankeetravels]

(03-21-2019 10:21 AM)Shimmy Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 02:28 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

So what's the point in going wife hunting in 3rd world countries in LA, EE, and SEA then? Might as well marry an American, pop out a few kids, and keep up with the Joneses with divorce rape hanging over your head, waiting to drop when you least expect it.

(this is not specifically directed at you in particular, Sidney)

Not everyone on this forum is traveling or living outside of the country looking for a wife or looking to escape the west because they hate it. I've actually met dozens of guys from the forum and can't recall one that was "wife hunting". I don't know this guys background but it could be something as simple as he liked living in Peru and made the mistake of accidentally knocking a chick up 3x. Not the smartest thing, but it happens all the time everywhere in the world as does people having kids on purpose with no financial planning ahead of time.

Maybe not specifically for wife hunting, but I think it's a near definite fact that almost everybody on this forum rejects the idea of having a western wife. I'm way too young to effectively comment on the overall situation of the blogger the OP references or older/more experienced guys here facing a decision like this, but I can't help but believe there's a difference between a girl raised in the west versus one that wasn't, even if the latter became a bit westernized relocating.

I wanna add that western education is not all sunshine and rainbows. Even going back there, you're still in a Keeping up with the Joneses mentality for education. Everybody is looking at the best public and private schools for kids, kids are trying to get into the best colleges they can, thinking that college may get them a bigger foot in the door for jobs. Me personally, I grew up going to private school in the states because of the very reasons people complain about education for other countries. Less safe, not fulfilling education, and better opportunity. You do not escape that getting your education in the States. Do you really think schools in say Compton get the funding and resources a school in an upper middle class small town would? The answer is a big no. Not only that, private schools are where more networking opportunities lie.

However, what suburbia can offer sometimes in the West is a united community looking out for the best interests of children. Forget how we feel about certain political topics being brought in schools, there are still small towns out in the states that primarily are centered around a lot of parents and residents volunteering their time to create better opportunities for their kids along with creating a stable environment and community. I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on how well the rest of the world does that, but that may very well be a factor for some guys. I work with a few small towns now and learning about how events and organizations are developed, it really can be quite impressive the amount of unpaid time some of the established older community members put in the interest of their town and kids. I'd imagine as a western foreigner in the third world this may be a bigger challenge to recreate than even the education.

But, this leads me to my question. What are we as forum guys looking for in the long term? Are we looking to stay unattached to anything while growing our individual resources and travel the world? Are we looking for a few bases? Are we looking for a wife in another country and to start a life with her there, in a neutral country, or back in our home? I'm too young to have my own answer here for what I'd want and this has been talked about before on the forum, thinking back to one thread This is Trouble started a few months back about living somewhere with a girl in tow.

It's funny, a couple days before this thread was made, I was having a discussion with some guys on what was more important. Making money in your 20's or traveling the world and giving yourself more global opportunities with women? There were good points made on both sides, and I came to the conclusion that even as men, we cannot have it all. There's always going to be a fear of missing out on something. Life is gonna have forks in the road where you need to choose what path to take and trust your judgment that it's the right path.

In this case, we're basically raising the question of if it's worth traveling to other countries if it's only for a temporary number of years to just end up back in the west? I'd argue the answer is an emphatic yes. However, I do think topics like this are signs that the forum is in a new stage of travel/life/game development where the average age of the community is getting older, so questions like this start to come up about where and how to spend later chapters of our lives that may not have even crossed the minds of a lot of guys a few years ago.

[LowerCaseG]

(03-20-2019 12:07 PM)scotian Wrote:  

I work with a guy from Bogota who grew up in a fairly wealthy family and graduated from a top university in Bogota and worked as an engineer there before moving to Canada with his wife and two kids about ten years ago. He left because it was too much of a grind especially in Bogota, the only city where he could make a "decent" salary of about $2000/month, had to deal with pollution, traffic, crime, etc. In Canada he makes about five times what he made in Bogota-life is much easier, there's much less daily stress and his kids are both fluent in Spanish, English and French (they lived in Quebec for five years before moving to Alberta) and attend free public schools in a school board that is consistently ranked as one of the best public boards in the world.. Mortagage rates in Colombia are something stupid like 20%, compared to about 3.0% in Canada. There's a lot of structural things in third world economies that prevent or at least make social mobility a lot more difficult for locals, these systems can be hard for expats to navigate too.

There's so many ways to get fucked over in the third world that I applaud anyone who is able to tough it out for several years, especially with kids. I think Colin is making the right move in relocating back to the US, even if it's only for a few years.

I do not think mortgage rates are 20% or anywhere close to that. I was under the impression they were slightly higher than in the US. I will inquire and reply with some details.


Edit: Recent transaction for upper middle class colombian assuming good job and credit, purchase of apartment in mid level barrio bogota, between 9.8-11% is what I was told.

[Sidney Crosby]

(03-21-2019 11:27 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 12:07 PM)scotian Wrote:  

I work with a guy from Bogota who grew up in a fairly wealthy family and graduated from a top university in Bogota and worked as an engineer there before moving to Canada with his wife and two kids about ten years ago. He left because it was too much of a grind especially in Bogota, the only city where he could make a "decent" salary of about $2000/month, had to deal with pollution, traffic, crime, etc. In Canada he makes about five times what he made in Bogota-life is much easier, there's much less daily stress and his kids are both fluent in Spanish, English and French (they lived in Quebec for five years before moving to Alberta) and attend free public schools in a school board that is consistently ranked as one of the best public boards in the world.. Mortagage rates in Colombia are something stupid like 20%, compared to about 3.0% in Canada. There's a lot of structural things in third world economies that prevent or at least make social mobility a lot more difficult for locals, these systems can be hard for expats to navigate too.

There's so many ways to get fucked over in the third world that I applaud anyone who is able to tough it out for several years, especially with kids. I think Colin is making the right move in relocating back to the US, even if it's only for a few years.

I do not think mortgage rates are 20% or anywhere close to that. I was under the impression they were slightly higher than in the US. I will inquire and reply with some details.


Edit: Recent transaction for upper middle class colombian assuming good job and credit, purchase of apartment in mid level barrio bogota, between 9.8-11% is what I was told.

Regardless of mortgage rates, housing in Bogota and Lima is expensive assuming you want a decent sized, newer place in a nice area.

What can 200k USD get you in Estrato 4,5 Bogota? Most likely a 1BR or small 2BR apartment. Go to most 2nd or 3rd tier cities in the states and 200k can get you a decent house big enough for a 3-4 kid family.

[Shimmy]

(03-21-2019 11:27 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

Edit: Recent transaction for upper middle class colombian assuming good job and credit, purchase of apartment in mid level barrio bogota, between 9.8-11% is what I was told.

That's correct, another downside is that on top of the 10% mortgage rate you need to put down 30% or so. Financing a place in Colombia does not make sense when your interest + fees not even including principal is higher than rent would be.

One upside is if you live in an upscale building in Colombia with a doorman you pay $100-200 a month for maintenance fees where you would pay $500-1200 a month for the same in the US due to labor costs. Same goes with property taxes.

(03-21-2019 12:31 PM)Sidney Crosby Wrote:  

What can 200k USD get you in Estrato 4,5 Bogota? Most likely a 1BR or small 2BR apartment. Go to most 2nd or 3rd tier cities in the states and 200k can get you a decent house big enough for a 3-4 kid family.

You can get a really nice 3 bedroom in an estrato 6 neighborhood in bogota for 200k. Here's an example of a newer one, you can still get one twice the size for around the same $ but not as nice.

https://www.fincaraiz.com.co/apartamento...42162.aspx

With that said I still would not wait to raise kids anywhere in Colombia.

[Papi Rico]

(03-21-2019 05:36 AM)croquet Wrote:  

(03-20-2019 12:22 AM)Papi Rico Wrote:  

Unless he had zero or bad credit, he could have easily pieced together the $175k for the down-payment through a series of personal loans, at rates considerably below what any Peruvian bank would offer him.[/b] Was he not willing to stomach the risk of default? That's another story. But I'm not going to sympathize with the "I'd love to stay in Lima, but I cannot find financing" bit.

On this part I have to say you are way off base. 175k in personal loans? As a middle class expat who can't buy a house in cash in the low 6 figures? As a small business owner whose business and future property are in a foreign jurisdiction?

The only thing that is off base is your inability to do some basic research. First, here are the basics of unsecured lending.

Next, here is a list of mortgage loan rates in Peru. You'll see that the absolute lowest is 11.93%. This is the local TCEA rate, meaning that it includes all bank fees and commissions. His effective rate would probably have been in the high teens, if that.

Now, here are some US-based lenders that you yourself could have looked up in under 5 minutes:

https://www.lightstream.com/
https://www.sofi.com/personal-loan-dr/
https://www.citizensbankpersonalloans.com/personal
https://www.marcus.com/

Yes, many of us can make 175k appear in our bank accounts in under 48 hours at sub-10% APR.

Quote:

I'll come there and buy the property in cash with you standing next to me.

So when are you flying down?

[scotian]

A friend of mine who lives in Bogota and knows Colin personally asked me to post this here on his behalf:

Quote:

My friend Scotian here showed me this post and asked me to comment as a non-member.

I was born and raised in Canada and have dual Canada/US citizenship and permanent Colombian residency. I've been living and working in Bogota on and off for the past 14 years (mostly on), and I've lived in many cities in 5 different countries in my lifetime and travelled extensively. I'm also pretty good friends with both Scotian and Colin (although I believe the two actually have never met). Here are a few thoughts and observations:

Lima is definitely damned expensive! ESPECIALLY compared to Bogotá where I currently live. I'd say on average it's about 3x more expensive than Bogotá and I don't even think it's that nice of a city. I don't even really see what Colin sees in it, after visiting there for the first time (I managed to miss Colin by a mere 2 weeks). And Miraflores is even that much more expensive! Prices there are almost right up there with major US and European cities; I was truly shocked!

Here in Bogota, you can leave cheaply, or not so cheaply. I live in a small studio apartment in a working class neighborhood here and my expenses are really low. I could easily live off of a million pesos a month (just over $300 USD) if I wanted to, and that includes gym membership, high speed internet (which is every bit as good as in the US, not saying much maybe), and eating out a couple times a week. $2000USD a month here in Bogota would allow you to be a real high roller, it definitely wouldn't go that far in Lima. though. As a point of reference I could get a maid to clean my place for about $10USD or less. $15USD would be more than enough for someone to go across town and clean a big apartment completely, and even cook while doing it.

My kids are in the US and one of them is already grown now, but I would have no problem raising kids here in Bogota. However, nobody who can avoid it or cares at all about their children send them to public school here. Literally less than half of all kids go to public schools in this country. In nicer neighborhoods in Bogota they don't even BUILD public schools. This doesn't mean you have to break the bank, however. There are plenty of decently priced good quality private schools that charge less than $100 a month for a kid to go there, and of course they offer multiple child discounts as well. There are also schools that charge in line with what they quoted Colin, but I think they are a waste of money, and they are prestigious in name only. Often those are the schools that are LEAST demanding on the kids actually. There are also options like Refous, which is a little bit like sending your kid to the Spartan army camps, but they come out well-educated and well-disciplined.

In the meantime I"m actually staying in Bogota and one or both of my kids may wind up joining me. One of the big advantages here is how cheap the medical care is. I've had to use it several times, including a few emergencies, and have always gotten excellent care, and I don't have the expensive level of coverage (still extremely cheap by US standards) either. I just pay around $30USD a month for FULL coverage. If there's a copay it's always under $1USD. And it includes alternative medicine, dental, optometry, and chiropractor. US medical care is also very good but just way too expensive.

Of course, this city isn't for everyone. For one, you really need to have fluent Spanish to appreciate life here. This isn't some tourist trap where everybody is going to speak English at you. And traffic and pollution are definitely problems here (although the food and tap water are better quality than anywhere in North America). Plus there is a lot of crime here, not really violent crime, but a lot of petty crime like cell phone snatching and pickpocketing etc.

Me personally, I had to repatriate in 2016 due to the peso crashing a year previously. I spent almost two years back up north, in Canada and in the US. HATED it. Couldn't wait to get back, and got back at almost the first opportunity. People may think I'm crazy but I missed mostly the people, but also things like the good cheap professional services, the culture, the nightlife, etc. And definitely the women...

If you're planning to move here, my one piece of advice would be to NOT start up a business here, at least, not formally. You can work here as an independent if you have a sufficiently marketable skill (although you are probably going to need a proper visa for this and they've gotten a lot stricter recently). But don't open up a business because you will get hit hard with regulations and taxes. That's perhaps the "barrier to social mobility" Scotia is talking about, although I think an even worse version of it exists in Canada. Salaries are also quite low in general. People who somehow manage to be independent but not officially incorporated do OK here. Some of them even do extremely well. Another probably better strategy is to get an online job that allows you to live here and get the best of both worlds. Colombia is an incredible deal since the peso fell in 2015 (it's stayed low since) when you're bringing especially USD in.

If you're planning on taking a Colombian girl abroad to live with you, my advice would be DO NOT FUCKING DO IT, DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

There are several great reasons for this, but the main one is simply that any girl who is willing to abandon her roots here (Colombian families are VERY VERY close-knit) and leave the country to go with you is also the type of girl that CANNOT BE TRUSTED to be loyal to you in the long run.

As a matter of fact, I make a point of letting every girl I meet know right from jump that I'm NEVER taking her out of the country to live. That eliminates quite a few of them, and I say good riddance. Don't need that kinda bullshit in my life. And don't be fooled by some girl talking "traditional values" at you. Hopefully you're not dumb enough to believe in that shit to begin with anyways, but if you are, please at least know that SHE IS LYING TO YOU, trying to tell you what you want to hear. I don't think there's a female alive that wouldn't trade up on a dude as long as they can do it with impunity, and Colombians are definitely not the exception!

Anyways, I guess that's it.

[Sidney Crosby]

(03-21-2019 12:42 PM)Shimmy Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 11:27 AM)LowerCaseG Wrote:  

Edit: Recent transaction for upper middle class colombian assuming good job and credit, purchase of apartment in mid level barrio bogota, between 9.8-11% is what I was told.

That's correct, another downside is that on top of the 10% mortgage rate you need to put down 30% or so. Financing a place in Colombia does not make sense when your interest + fees not even including principal is higher than rent would be.

One upside is if you live in an upscale building in Colombia with a doorman you pay $100-200 a month for maintenance fees where you would pay $500-1200 a month for the same in the US due to labor costs. Same goes with property taxes.

(03-21-2019 12:31 PM)Sidney Crosby Wrote:  

What can 200k USD get you in Estrato 4,5 Bogota? Most likely a 1BR or small 2BR apartment. Go to most 2nd or 3rd tier cities in the states and 200k can get you a decent house big enough for a 3-4 kid family.

You can get a really nice 3 bedroom in an estrato 6 neighborhood in bogota for 200k. Here's an example of a newer one, you can still get one twice the size for around the same $ but not as nice.

https://www.fincaraiz.com.co/apartamento...42162.aspx

With that said I still would not wait to raise kids anywhere in Colombia.

That place is ok, but really small. I'm used to and want something bigger, the problem with being raised in Canada. Everyone wants different things though.

[Shimmy]

(03-21-2019 01:30 PM)scotian Wrote:  

A friend of mine who lives in Bogota and knows Colin personally asked me to post this here on his behalf:

Quote:

My friend Scotian here showed me this post and asked me to comment as a non-member.

I was born and raised in Canada and have dual Canada/US citizenship and permanent Colombian residency. I've been living and working in Bogota on and off for the past 14 years (mostly on), and I've lived in many cities in 5 different countries in my lifetime and travelled extensively. I'm also pretty good friends with both Scotian and Colin (although I believe the two actually have never met). Here are a few thoughts and observations:

Lima is definitely damned expensive! ESPECIALLY compared to Bogotá where I currently live. I'd say on average it's about 3x more expensive than Bogotá and I don't even think it's that nice of a city. I don't even really see what Colin sees in it, after visiting there for the first time (I managed to miss Colin by a mere 2 weeks). And Miraflores is even that much more expensive! Prices there are almost right up there with major US and European cities; I was truly shocked!

Here in Bogota, you can leave cheaply, or not so cheaply. I live in a small studio apartment in a working class neighborhood here and my expenses are really low. I could easily live off of a million pesos a month (just over $300 USD) if I wanted to, and that includes gym membership, high speed internet (which is every bit as good as in the US, not saying much maybe), and eating out a couple times a week. $2000USD a month here in Bogota would allow you to be a real high roller, it definitely wouldn't go that far in Lima. though. As a point of reference I could get a maid to clean my place for about $10USD or less. $15USD would be more than enough for someone to go across town and clean a big apartment completely, and even cook while doing it.

My kids are in the US and one of them is already grown now, but I would have no problem raising kids here in Bogota. However, nobody who can avoid it or cares at all about their children send them to public school here. Literally less than half of all kids go to public schools in this country. In nicer neighborhoods in Bogota they don't even BUILD public schools. This doesn't mean you have to break the bank, however. There are plenty of decently priced good quality private schools that charge less than $100 a month for a kid to go there, and of course they offer multiple child discounts as well. There are also schools that charge in line with what they quoted Colin, but I think they are a waste of money, and they are prestigious in name only. Often those are the schools that are LEAST demanding on the kids actually. There are also options like Refous, which is a little bit like sending your kid to the Spartan army camps, but they come out well-educated and well-disciplined.

In the meantime I"m actually staying in Bogota and one or both of my kids may wind up joining me. One of the big advantages here is how cheap the medical care is. I've had to use it several times, including a few emergencies, and have always gotten excellent care, and I don't have the expensive level of coverage (still extremely cheap by US standards) either. I just pay around $30USD a month for FULL coverage. If there's a copay it's always under $1USD. And it includes alternative medicine, dental, optometry, and chiropractor. US medical care is also very good but just way too expensive.

Of course, this city isn't for everyone. For one, you really need to have fluent Spanish to appreciate life here. This isn't some tourist trap where everybody is going to speak English at you. And traffic and pollution are definitely problems here (although the food and tap water are better quality than anywhere in North America). Plus there is a lot of crime here, not really violent crime, but a lot of petty crime like cell phone snatching and pickpocketing etc.

Me personally, I had to repatriate in 2016 due to the peso crashing a year previously. I spent almost two years back up north, in Canada and in the US. HATED it. Couldn't wait to get back, and got back at almost the first opportunity. People may think I'm crazy but I missed mostly the people, but also things like the good cheap professional services, the culture, the nightlife, etc. And definitely the women...

If you're planning to move here, my one piece of advice would be to NOT start up a business here, at least, not formally. You can work here as an independent if you have a sufficiently marketable skill (although you are probably going to need a proper visa for this and they've gotten a lot stricter recently). But don't open up a business because you will get hit hard with regulations and taxes. That's perhaps the "barrier to social mobility" Scotia is talking about, although I think an even worse version of it exists in Canada. Salaries are also quite low in general. People who somehow manage to be independent but not officially incorporated do OK here. Some of them even do extremely well. Another probably better strategy is to get an online job that allows you to live here and get the best of both worlds. Colombia is an incredible deal since the peso fell in 2015 (it's stayed low since) when you're bringing especially USD in.

If you're planning on taking a Colombian girl abroad to live with you, my advice would be DO NOT FUCKING DO IT, DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

There are several great reasons for this, but the main one is simply that any girl who is willing to abandon her roots here (Colombian families are VERY VERY close-knit) and leave the country to go with you is also the type of girl that CANNOT BE TRUSTED to be loyal to you in the long run.

As a matter of fact, I make a point of letting every girl I meet know right from jump that I'm NEVER taking her out of the country to live. That eliminates quite a few of them, and I say good riddance. Don't need that kinda bullshit in my life. And don't be fooled by some girl talking "traditional values" at you. Hopefully you're not dumb enough to believe in that shit to begin with anyways, but if you are, please at least know that SHE IS LYING TO YOU, trying to tell you what you want to hear. I don't think there's a female alive that wouldn't trade up on a dude as long as they can do it with impunity, and Colombians are definitely not the exception!

Anyways, I guess that's it.

Words of wisdom. Sounds like he's probably been around the block a few times and with my limited experience in Bogota I agree with him 100%.

[croquet]

(03-21-2019 01:09 PM)Papi Rico Wrote:  

The only thing that is off base is your inability to do some basic research. First, here are the basics of unsecured lending.

Next, here is a list of mortgage loan rates in Peru. You'll see that the absolute lowest is 11.93%. This is the local TCEA rate, meaning that it includes all bank fees and commissions. His effective rate would probably have been in the high teens, if that.

Now, here are some US-based lenders that you yourself could have looked up in under 5 minutes:

https://www.lightstream.com/
https://www.sofi.com/personal-loan-dr/
https://www.citizensbankpersonalloans.com/personal
https://www.marcus.com/

Yes, many of us can make 175k appear in our bank accounts in under 48 hours at sub-10% APR.

Quote:

I'll come there and buy the property in cash with you standing next to me.

So when are you flying down?

First, let me address the point you so blatantly dodged.

Here are the facts: Colin doesn't have enough in cash to buy a house about 200K USD. He has a somewhat ok business in that has volatile earnings. He is an expat with presumably little to no ties to US banking since he moved down to Peru.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and say he tried. If he has something like 125K USD, ok he's looking at options. The dude likely has something like sub 50K USD networth. That doesn't make him a great prospect and limits his options hence his tone.

You really think he is going to get a bunch of unsecured loans at any rate? Do you work in underwriting at a lender? No? Next.

Next, you threw a bunch of links at me. It's clear you yourself didn't click on the links because they all are of the following basis: look at how much you could get, not how much money you will get. Colin could get all 4 banks or more and still not have enough.

It'd be great if as you say he could hit up a bunch of US based lenders on a bunch of personal loans to buy a property, but he would have needed to setup that before he expat'ed. You simply do not expat for 7 years, and come back to the States and say to lenders, give me money oh and by the way I live in a foreign jurisdiction with a ecommerce business. Banks aren't that stupid.

You can get 175K in under 48 hours? Great. Congrats. Want a cookie?

I'll send you my flight details once I get approved.

[the-dream]

Reading between the lines, it looks like maybe his wife is hungry for a US citizenship and has pressured him into it, selling him the American dream.

I do empathise with him though. I love living in the 3rd world and I love being with their women but I wouldn't want my son to grow up to be like a 3rd world national guy. The wannabe-Westerner upper class international school produced guys are probably even more repulsive to me than the average poor somewhat primitive local. Even the thought of my son growing up to be of another 1st world culture than mine is a bit weird.

This is my perspective from living in the Philippines but I imagine that Peru is quite similar.

[the-dream]

The only somewhat attractive sounding solution I've come up with for the dilemma of my son growing up in a 3rd world country would be to make friends with other guys I like from my country and bring him up around them and their children.

Common sense tells me that is quite ridiculous and stupid though and I may as well just go home if I'm going to do that.

[Papi Rico]

Glad to have you on board, bro.

If you're serious about making the move to Lima, hit me up and I'll be glad to help. Yes, that's right, I'm here to help. And I'm in an offline chat with over a dozen guys who live in Lima or have an interest in moving here or spending extended periods, and they're also willing to help.

But I have no problem calling out conclusory nonsense when I see it. My intent is always to call out the written claims, not the guy making them. It's unfortunate that some of you guys can't engage in a healthy debate without it getting personal.

I now know that there is a hell of a lot going on 'between the lines,' but that's for the author to clarify. He puts out there what he wants to put out there, and with as little or as much background information as he chooses. That's why I said from the outset to read the post with a grain of salt, because it's highly specific to one particular guy's motives and constraints.

[Fortis]

(03-21-2019 06:45 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  

Expats are better off going to Hong Kong or Singapore rather than places like Lima.
I know guys making that amount in one year in these places, and he’s been there all this time for what exactly?

Why HK or Singapore? HK is more pricy than NYC and not as fun.

[CleanSlate]

(03-21-2019 11:21 AM)yankeetravels Wrote:  

But, this leads me to my question. What are we as forum guys looking for in the long term? Are we looking to stay unattached to anything while growing our individual resources and travel the world? Are we looking for a few bases? Are we looking for a wife in another country and to start a life with her there, in a neutral country, or back in our home? I'm too young to have my own answer here for what I'd want and this has been talked about before on the forum, thinking back to one thread This is Trouble started a few months back about living somewhere with a girl in tow.

It's funny, a couple days before this thread was made, I was having a discussion with some guys on what was more important. Making money in your 20's or traveling the world and giving yourself more global opportunities with women? There were good points made on both sides, and I came to the conclusion that even as men, we cannot have it all. There's always going to be a fear of missing out on something. Life is gonna have forks in the road where you need to choose what path to take and trust your judgment that it's the right path.

In this case, we're basically raising the question of if it's worth traveling to other countries if it's only for a temporary number of years to just end up back in the west? I'd argue the answer is an emphatic yes. However, I do think topics like this are signs that the forum is in a new stage of travel/life/game development where the average age of the community is getting older, so questions like this start to come up about where and how to spend later chapters of our lives that may not have even crossed the minds of a lot of guys a few years ago.

Great post.

I also think we, as a group, are entering uncharted waters. Even if we intend to return to the west after traveling abroad, unplanned things may happen during our travels.

We may change our minds about going back. We may meet an unicorn and get married. We may knock up a girl accidentally once (or in the OP’s case, 3 times, hmm). We may even live a higher quality of life than we did in the West. Plus, we all know the dangers of bringing back a girl to the West. And we know some of our buddies who went back for a while and they hated it.

I wish the best for the OP, but something tells me he will regret it a few years later.

It all comes down to what you want, what kind of lifestyle, and even what you want for your kids. What happens if there are conflicting desires, though?

We never really thought about this or experienced it to really give answers.

Maybe there are no answers?

[zoom]

(03-21-2019 08:56 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

We may change our minds about going back. We may meet an unicorn and get married. We may knock up a girl accidentally once (or in the OP’s case, 3 times, hmm).

If you read the article he mentioned in the third paragraph that he's married. He has three legitimate children.

[Fortis]

I can see how this happens. Look, ultimately, we aren't from these places. I love living abroad. It's the #1 best thing I ever did for my health, finances, and intelligence. However, I am considering an exit within the next few years.

Of course, it'll be on my own terms. I'll be location independent and can shoot out for long vacations, but I am not quite sure everyone is cut out to be a perennial expat.

I went home for the first time in three years last month and as much as I hate the place, I also saw a lot of good things.

The food, air and water are cleaner.
Cars and housing are reasonably cheap.

Most importantly, however, I was closer to my family.

[Dulceácido]

(03-21-2019 09:27 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

I can see how this happens. Look, ultimately, we aren't from these places. I love living abroad. It's the #1 best thing I ever did for my health, finances, and intelligence. However, I am considering an exit within the next few years.

Of course, it'll be on my own terms. I'll be location independent and can shoot out for long vacations, but I am not quite sure everyone is cut out to be a perennial expat.

I went home for the first time in three years last month and as much as I hate the place, I also saw a lot of good things.

The food, air and water are cleaner.
Cars and housing are reasonably cheap.

Most importantly, however, I was closer to my family.

"There's no place like home."

I think I heard that somewhere before...

[kazz]

I think a lot of the perceived problem with bringing a foreign girl back home is because of this sort of thing...... Then word gets around, oh the hypergamy of these women !!


   

[balybary]

   

[Tully Mars]

Finally after trying to dissect this guy apart we got some interesting thought provoking comments....I agree with Cleanslate I think just maybe we don't have all the answers.

I am lucky enough to still have enough time to go back to the States for long visits to be with family, and friends. Or more importantly time to get out of Colombia and see other parts of the world before eventually returning to work and life here. I feel those 4-6 weeks does a lot for me and keeps me reconnected with family but also the world outside Latin America. It also in a sense recharges me to live here again and restart the adventure all over.

I don't ever see myself repatriating. Maybe spending a month or two in the USA near family and friends in retirement. Have a few modest properties in various regions of the world that I feel are still "free". I truly believe I will live abroad the majority of my life and stay a free roaming bachelor. That just seems to work for me.

My friends that have repatriated and those with kids and family all go through the up's and down's of reintigrating into the culture. However they all miss the buzz about living abroad. I think that is the case with all of us that have travelled and lived a large amount of time oversea's that buzz never leaves you.

Anyways interesting commentary all around.....I look forward to hearing more from Roosh and Colin as they repatriate back to the west.

[Obermarschall]

(03-21-2019 03:41 PM)Papi Rico Wrote:  

Glad to have you on board, bro.

If you're serious about making the move to Lima, hit me up and I'll be glad to help. Yes, that's right, I'm here to help. And I'm in an offline chat with over a dozen guys who live in Lima or have an interest in moving here or spending extended periods, and they're also willing to help.

But I have no problem calling out conclusory nonsense when I see it. My intent is always to call out the written claims, not the guy making them. It's unfortunate that some of you guys can't engage in a healthy debate without it getting personal.

I now know that there is a hell of a lot going on 'between the lines,' but that's for the author to clarify. He puts out there what he wants to put out there, and with as little or as much background information as he chooses. That's why I said from the outset to read the post with a grain of salt, because it's highly specific to one particular guy's motives and constraints.

A bit off-topic, but I am considering to move to Lima, to stay there for at least 1 year + to hit up few other cities and even countries in LATAM.
I know Lima already, well at least some parts of it. I speak broken Spanish and so far during all my travels to Peru I wasn't stolen, nor scammed and I think I have good streets smarts so to speak.
I would have around 1000€ a month. I might potentially get it up by a few hundred € (giving English/German/French private classes+Bitcoin and few tiny investments here and there), but 1000€ is almost sure. Do you think I can find a tiny normal studio for 250€ in Miraflores/San Isidro or even Lince?

[Papi Rico]

(03-22-2019 08:19 AM)Obermarschall Wrote:  

(03-21-2019 03:41 PM)Papi Rico Wrote:  

A bit off-topic, but I am considering to move to Lima, to stay there for at least 1 year + to hit up few other cities and even countries in LATAM.
I know Lima already, well at least some parts of it. I speak broken Spanish and so far during all my travels to Peru I wasn't stolen, nor scammed and I think I have good streets smarts so to speak.
I would have around 1000€ a month. I might potentially get it up by a few hundred € (giving English/German/French private classes+Bitcoin and few tiny investments here and there), but 1000€ is almost sure. Do you think I can find a tiny normal studio for 250€ in Miraflores/San Isidro or even Lince?

At that budget you'll be able to find a private room in a house in Miraflores. If that's an option I'd use Facebook groups to get connected with roommates. You can also use FB groups to offer your language services.

Studios in Miraflores start from around USD 400, but you'll have to negotiate and they'll be windowless and/or not in the best locations. For studios elsewhere, I'd look into San Miguel or Magdalena del Mar. Lince is also cheap, but I'm not a fan as I find it chaotic.

Pretty much everything else you need to know is in these threads:

thread-60934.html
thread-65790.html

[tomtud]

Repatriating with a new family isn’t a cake walk. I did it.

Met a lady in Medellin, had a kid and brought her to Canada. (Was working for 2 years in medellin btw).
Getting the passport for my daughter and residency visa means you need to go to a Bogota several times. Getting documents translated and stamped by a lawyer isn’t straight forward. A simple visit to a notary on your city isn’t going to cut it. You need to g9 to Bogota ( it’s been several years so things may have changed). While in Bogota you need to go to specific government offices ( forgot the names) to get your kids birth certificate translated then send it off to the Canadian embassy. Same goes with the permanent residency application. (Now I believe there is a Canadian consulate in Medellin). Back in 2015 nope.
Then when all of that is done buying the plane ticket is the easiest. Pay attention now.......if the mother and child are travelling alone, read more,

Since the child is a dual citizen you need to go to the Colombian consulate in your city (toronto) in my case and provide proof that you are the father and pay a small processing fee $20 usd. To give permission for the child to travel outside
of Colombia. This process is repeated every time the mom and child travel outside of Colombia without YOU the father. So when mother and daughter are visiting Colombia and such, you got to go to the embassy or consulate and provide proof that you are th3 father and allow the child to leave Colombia. They give you a window of return so they can fly back and have a smooth process through Colombian immigration.
***** I forgot to say that my wife had issues on her first visit to Canada as the system didn’t have her application on file. Make sure that you save the application (take photos) and date everything.send the pics to her because odds are she won’t have a cell phone that operates locally. Apparently there are back logs. When you do things the legal way you deal with shit. ******
Am bouncing around, please forgive me as it’s been a while.

Health insurance was a piece of cake. It’s about 90 days wait for the Canadian citizen to get onto OHIP (Ontario health insurance plan) our socialized medicine. Exceptions apply to government workers, military and such. As for the wife, had to wait much longer. She did have a visa to visit Canada and while her permanent residency application was processing I bought insurance at Walmart.
**** this irritated me as money was going out, she couldn’t work because she didn’t have permanent residency. Plus, our Prime minister Trudeau brought in a tonne of refugees who got free health care, housing and such. That’s another story*****

The wife got a job a few months after getting her social insurance number (social security number for you Americans FYI) and that happened in 2018. A few years after arriving 8n Canada.

Each jurisdiction and country is different. I’m just telling my story. I had income, I had money and a place to stay. Yet they take forever to process your documents. Better claim refugee status and I’m sure you will be streamlined.

Be prepared to spend several thousand dollars to get it all done. Just the documents. From trips to consulates and embassies etc. Transport misc.

Now day to day living has its issues. For example my wife doesn’t drive. So you’re dead tired from work and she needs to go to the store. You go. Had you married a local girl, odds are she will have a license and a car.

Now I painted the negative. The positives outweigh the negatives. Having a hot Latin wife is great. We don’t go out a lot because having a young daughter is a lot of work. Those of you who have kids can attest that when they wake up at 7:30am on Saturday and Sunday mornings when you get back at 3am from partying isn’t easy. Your whole day is a mess. I prefer not going out much because I know what is waiting for me.

As our life gets up to speed (work) etc its getting easier. Now, in my situation I lived in Medellin for 2 years and it wasn’t like others who go south on vacation for 1 week and fall in love without getting to know the person. I saw a documentary by the CBC how 3 out of 4 marriages to Cubans by Canadians ends in splitsville. This I bet is from those who do the weekly trips amongst many other reasons. My advice, is to live in the country. Get to know the person outside of the quick weekly trips. (I’m sure you can replace Cuban with other nationalities).

I actually like Latin culture ( music and food ) so doing concerts and Latin events (Salsa, Latin clubs) definitely makes it easier for the wife. You can get a VPN and watch live and recorded programs from Colombia like Caracol so she can watch her novelas and beloved septimo dia on Sunday’s.

I’ve heard horror stories of foreign spouses. We’ve been together since 2013 and life is getting better. I’m happy that I didn’t have the misfortune of those who married foreign spouses and have to suffer with alimony and such.

I know that if we do separate, my daughter will live with the mother (I’m sure she will move back to Colombia) the child was born there. I accept this. I have a story......My old friend married an Australian girl. They moved to Canada and had a daughter that was born in Canada. Their marriage went down the tubes and when she visited Australia with the child she didn’t want to return. Since the child was born in Canada ( not sure if she had dual) probably did, the mother had to return. I believe he spent tens of thousands if not more getting lawyers involved from getting them back, to divorce to child custody. Today I believe the mother is here alone with the child. Probably miserable that she’s stuck in Canada.

Anyhow, when divorcing with kids a foreign wife, you deal with more issues. I know of cases where they bring the step kids too.

Marriage is great when you get along (duh) but when dealing with a foreign spouse, it definitely has its pluses and minuses.

Hope you get the gist of it.

[ExpatChronicles]

(03-19-2019 07:01 PM)Tully Mars Wrote:  

I have always enjoyed following Colin Post's articles, books and insights into living as an expat in South America (Colombia & Peru) ... good read for those guys contemplating staying in South America longterm
Link: https://expat-chronicles.com/2019/03/14/repatriation/

Thank you for sharing! Your handle sounds familiar but for the life of me I can't figure out who you are. Have you ever reached out? Shoot me an email! expat punto chronicles arroba gmail

(03-22-2019 06:18 AM)Tully Mars Wrote:  

Finally after trying to dissect this guy apart we got some interesting thought provoking comments....I agree with Cleanslate I think just maybe we don't have all the answers.

An understatement! There is a lot to dig into, and I will respond to every point raised. Sooner than later ... on Peruvian time anyway.

In the meantime and in-between time, in gratitude of the dissection ... nay, the penetrative probe (and I thought I was forgotten in the manosphere!), I have marked all my books down to $0.99 (Amazon wouldn't allow Lima Travel Guide to go lower than $2, I assume because of all the pics). So stock up and stay tuned!

Mad Outta Me Head: Addiction and Underworld from Ireland to Colombia
Lima Travel Guide: Insider Advice from an Expat in Peru
Arequipa Travel Guide: Insider Advice from Expats in Peru