Quote: (01-05-2019 03:29 PM)Roosh Wrote:
Whenever a man says dating apps "aren't bad", he lives in New York City (or is traveling through SE Asia). Don't confuse the ease of dating apps with living in NYC, which is the best city in the USA to game, no matter what method you use.
Quote: (01-05-2019 04:24 PM)Super Average Man Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 03:43 PM)Graft Wrote:
1. Fun, interesting life with exclusive events, traveling or huge parties, concerts (status)
2. Facial looks
3. Social Circle
4. Money that's not going into a 401k (money that is spent on point #1)
5. Height/body
2. and 5. will make everything else much easier. Handsome people will always have an easier time getting hired, being promoted, being invited to events, etc. So "Chad" will almost always be successful in other areas of his life. You'll be hard pressed to find a very good looking guy who's a real loser, and even if you do, he'll probably still be banging girls anyway - they'll be trying to help him recover ("poor Chad!").
That's why I don't quite buy this logic. Sure, the top 10% best looking guys aren't necessarily the top 10% most well rounded guys. But there's a pretty high correlation. Girls know this. Maybe Chad's pictures aren't that great or professional but on account of his looks and style they can deduce that he comes from a good family, has a fun social circle, a decent job.
Quote: (01-05-2019 04:24 PM)Super Average Man Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 03:43 PM)Graft Wrote:
1. Fun, interesting life with exclusive events, traveling or huge parties, concerts (status)
2. Facial looks
3. Social Circle
4. Money that's not going into a 401k (money that is spent on point #1)
5. Height/body
2. and 5. will make everything else much easier. Handsome people will always have an easier time getting hired, being promoted, being invited to events, etc. So "Chad" will almost always be successful in other areas of his life. You'll be hard pressed to find a very good looking guy who's a real loser, and even if you do, he'll probably still be banging girls anyway - they'll be trying to help him recover ("poor Chad!").
That's why I don't quite buy this logic. Sure, the top 10% best looking guys aren't necessarily the top 10% most well rounded guys. But there's a pretty high correlation. Girls know this. Maybe Chad's pictures aren't that great or professional but on account of his looks and style they can deduce that he comes from a good family, has a fun social circle, a decent job.
Quote: (01-05-2019 02:21 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 01:48 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:
I just do not relate with the complaints about dating apps at all or guys saying how you have to be in the top 10% to get anything off of them. As someone who is a minority, albeit above average looks, I have had some degree of success with various dating apps and when I had higher quality photos done I could get myself to having a date every week or every other week. Most of this success came when I was in NYC but still, my point stands. The same goes for guys complaining about social media and how it is ruining game, nothing is ruining game, you're just not adjusting or evolving as a guy.
In my mind I have no doubt that if most dudes who have these complaints would just get higher quality photos done, learn the art of marketing themselves well through their pics and show to the world their interesting lifestyle that they would succeed with these apps and capitalize on this revolution. Please see this life changer of a thread to learn how to get the best possible photos for dating apps. Maybe I am missing something here but I don't get this whole notion of you having to be a Jason Momoa lookalike with a million dollar bank account to have success with dating apps, you just don't.
Dating apps have made my life a lot easier and I think they are probably the biggest blessing to the game, they have cut out the middle man.
I remember the nights of going out to bars and nightclubs, chatting up a cute girl only to find that she came with her crew and a lot of times her boyfriend. The amount of time wasted by going on wild goose chases and only occasionally getting lucky was a pain in the ass. Even with a lot of daygame I found that most of the women who were good looking were out with their boyfriend in the vicinity and simply did not want to be bothered.
Dating apps have cut out the middle man of a boyfriend and cockblocking friends, if she likes you and chats, it is implied that fucking or at least a date are going to be involved. I would not be surprised to find that vast majority of guys on this forum who have had a high lay count have done so because they used dating apps, it has made the whole process so much easier.
So I really do not get any of the complaints at all.
Yeah, women are going to like hot guys the same way guys like hot girls.
Yeah, guys who look better, have more interesting photos and can put together an amazing dating profile will get more play than some dude with selfies all over the app.
Yeah, younger people that look good love to fuck and experiment.
The point is that we're not complaining as Scorpion thoroughly explained, but simply laying out the consequences Dating Apps have on the Dating Market! And believe me, whatever results you're currently getting... with a proper social circle & a tight NightGame crew you would've gotten much much more before the "smarphone era"! If you go back to Roosh's initial writing with his DC Wings... you'll pick up the difference right away with how they were able to disable the Grenades!
Also think about this way: if you're getting adequate results now, with all the competition out there... image what it would've been back then. Of course there would be less candidates... but your success ratio would've been higher... and then by trying more... you'd probably exceed your current total
Quote: (01-05-2019 10:11 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:
My thoughts with dating apps is that they have actually made the game more fair to some degree in the sense that the best man wins. From what I have observed, social circle game is a godsend for uglier and less attractive dudes to get girls out of their league and most of the times it depends on factors way out of your control and tons of drama from jealous guys.
Online dating is more fair in the sense that the better man on paper usually wins and a genetic shitshow cannot weasel his way into girls out of his league.
If it were not for online dating and dating apps, I would be struggling a lot more.
Quote: (01-05-2019 10:11 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 02:21 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 01:48 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:
I just do not relate with the complaints about dating apps at all or guys saying how you have to be in the top 10% to get anything off of them. As someone who is a minority, albeit above average looks, I have had some degree of success with various dating apps and when I had higher quality photos done I could get myself to having a date every week or every other week. Most of this success came when I was in NYC but still, my point stands. The same goes for guys complaining about social media and how it is ruining game, nothing is ruining game, you're just not adjusting or evolving as a guy.
In my mind I have no doubt that if most dudes who have these complaints would just get higher quality photos done, learn the art of marketing themselves well through their pics and show to the world their interesting lifestyle that they would succeed with these apps and capitalize on this revolution. Please see this life changer of a thread to learn how to get the best possible photos for dating apps. Maybe I am missing something here but I don't get this whole notion of you having to be a Jason Momoa lookalike with a million dollar bank account to have success with dating apps, you just don't.
Dating apps have made my life a lot easier and I think they are probably the biggest blessing to the game, they have cut out the middle man.
I remember the nights of going out to bars and nightclubs, chatting up a cute girl only to find that she came with her crew and a lot of times her boyfriend. The amount of time wasted by going on wild goose chases and only occasionally getting lucky was a pain in the ass. Even with a lot of daygame I found that most of the women who were good looking were out with their boyfriend in the vicinity and simply did not want to be bothered.
Dating apps have cut out the middle man of a boyfriend and cockblocking friends, if she likes you and chats, it is implied that fucking or at least a date are going to be involved. I would not be surprised to find that vast majority of guys on this forum who have had a high lay count have done so because they used dating apps, it has made the whole process so much easier.
So I really do not get any of the complaints at all.
Yeah, women are going to like hot guys the same way guys like hot girls.
Yeah, guys who look better, have more interesting photos and can put together an amazing dating profile will get more play than some dude with selfies all over the app.
Yeah, younger people that look good love to fuck and experiment.
The point is that we're not complaining as Scorpion thoroughly explained, but simply laying out the consequences Dating Apps have on the Dating Market! And believe me, whatever results you're currently getting... with a proper social circle & a tight NightGame crew you would've gotten much much more before the "smarphone era"! If you go back to Roosh's initial writing with his DC Wings... you'll pick up the difference right away with how they were able to disable the Grenades!
Also think about this way: if you're getting adequate results now, with all the competition out there... image what it would've been back then. Of course there would be less candidates... but your success ratio would've been higher... and then by trying more... you'd probably exceed your current total
I did not mean for it to come off as anyone on this thread complaining, Scorpion is an elite user for a reason and you're a great mind too.
As for your post, I doubt it. My thoughts with dating apps is that they have actually made the game more fair to some degree in the sense that the best man wins. From what I have observed, social circle game is a godsend for uglier and less attractive dudes to get girls out of their league and most of the times it depends on factors way out of your control and tons of drama from jealous guys.
Online dating is more fair in the sense that the better man on paper usually wins and a genetic shitshow cannot weasel his way into girls out of his league.
If it were not for online dating and dating apps, I would be struggling a lot more.
Quote: (01-05-2019 11:33 AM)scorpion Wrote:
It's difficult to overstate how radically dating apps and smartphones have changed the landscape of dating over the past decade or two. These technologies simultaneously empower female hypergamy and greatly increase the access that alpha men have to women. Pre-dating app, an alpha man could certainly maintain a rotation/harem of women, but it was much more difficult to manage. The sheer logistics were burdensome. Juggling multiple women takes a lot of time, energy and finesse, and securing a constant supply of new women meant spending a lot of time on the prowl. The smartphone makes that process much easier, and the dating app ensures a steady flow of new women. It's literally a passive pussy stream, and a high-value man can have new women lined up every week with the cost of just exchanging a few text messages. Cost in time, energy and money? Essentially nothing.
From the female perspective, the dating app is essentially a Prince Charming lottery ticket. The women are all on there hoping to meet that one high-value man who's totally out of their league but who for whatever reason will fall for them head over heels. They're not looking for a man equal to their own SMV. What would be the point of that? From their perspective, they can walk down the street and meet a guy like that. It's boring. No - what they is the man they wouldn't normally have access to in their everyday life. The result is predictable: women throwing themselves at the top few men and completely ignoring the rest.
There's basically an entire "hidden economy" of dating that takes place in the swipes and texts of women with SMVs 6+ and men with SMVs 9+. There is a constant flow of communication and sex between these groups that results in reduced activity among the other groups. Low SMV individuals both male and female (say 3s and below) are essentially incel and entirely out of the modern dating market. This leaves female 4s and 5s, who are below the standards of the highest value men and get no attention from them, to serve as the dating pool for male 4s, 5s, 6s, 7s and 8s. The problem then becomes apparent: you have a much smaller pool of available women for the average and even above-average man. The female 4s and 5s, initially saddened that they can't get the attention of the male 9s, are quickly comforted by the realization that they can get an endless supply of sex and attention from those thirsty male 4-8s. So they take full advantage of the cock buffet the dating apps provide, making up for their lack of quality with pure quantity. It makes the average girl feel sexy and desirable to know that she can have the attention of so many men. Hence the modern phenomenon of the 5 who thinks she's an 8 - from her dating app perspective, she really thinks she is. This is why 4s and 5s are the sluttiest women - the dating apps enable it, and their serial promiscuity serves to persuade them that they are more sexually desirable than they really are.
The end result is stratification of the dating market, as this study demonstrates. The highest-value men have unprecedented access to all the attractive women, while even above-average men are left with essentially scraps. Women in the 6-8 range will spend years hoping to luck upon their Prince Charming, and if they don't will eventually settle for a guy with lower SMV before the wall hits. But by that point they've been embittered by years of pump and dumps and broken promises from higher value men. Not a good recipe for a happy marriage, or a for that matter a healthy society.
Basically, dating apps are an absolutely goldmine for the highest value men and average-looking women. Both of these groups can enjoy greatly enhanced sexual access with minimal investment of time and energy. The losers are the vast majority of men and above-average looking women, the latter whom spend their best years being passed around different alpha harems and end up single at 30 with nothing to show for it.
Is there a solution to this problem? Short of banning dating apps entirely, I don't see one. The negative side effects are baked in to the very design of the platforms. It's impossible to design a dating app that doesn't result in this sort of sexual stratification, because at the end of the day the platform is simply enabling and amplifying our natural human sexual programming. And that is not going to change. The West thrived when people learned the importance and value of controlling and channeling those natural sexual urges. Today, the West crumbles when our sexual urges have been freed from all constraint.
Quote: (01-05-2019 08:32 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:Some of the studies are pure shite because they use a male model that nobody would believe is actually using tinder.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comments...ow_effort/
Tinder isn't amazing for Chads either . A lot of 1000 swipe experiments. Never came across a fake Chad who had higher than 8%. And in all seriousness only a fraction of that 8% would actually be down to fuck (so call it a 1% or 2% fuck rate? So if you've right swiped 100 chicks on Tinder and you're decent looking / good looking then you should only expect 1 or 2 will put out). Yeah I've banged women off Tinder in western cities but it's a lot of work compared to Tindering in Asia.
Not sure why every guy seems to parrot the 80/20. In the singles dating pool, especially now that women mostly stop going to bars like pre-2013, so it's easily 99/1 or 99.5/0.5 now in western cities.
Traveling seems to even it up a bit.
Quote: (01-05-2019 11:06 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:I'd be a fool not to use them.
1) Who the hell uses dating apps these days? You have to be a fool to do so because you are just validating 6s as 9s. Just go out and day and/or night game. Yeah, rejection sucks (as Roosh's book Game will note) and everyone knows the feeling of it but you miss 100% of the shots you do not take.
2) Is it any surprise that hypergamy is the name of the game for women. Women will shit on anyone who they perceive to be inferior but will do anything they can to get their hands on a man who they perceive to be alpha while acting almost violently against their competitors. Little different than what Jews will go to lengths to get the attention of the rising star while ignoring the low value options and plotting to get rid of the competition.
Quote: (01-06-2019 02:31 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 08:32 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:Some of the studies are pure shite because they use a male model that nobody would believe is actually using tinder.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comments...ow_effort/
Tinder isn't amazing for Chads either . A lot of 1000 swipe experiments. Never came across a fake Chad who had higher than 8%. And in all seriousness only a fraction of that 8% would actually be down to fuck (so call it a 1% or 2% fuck rate? So if you've right swiped 100 chicks on Tinder and you're decent looking / good looking then you should only expect 1 or 2 will put out). Yeah I've banged women off Tinder in western cities but it's a lot of work compared to Tindering in Asia.
Not sure why every guy seems to parrot the 80/20. In the singles dating pool, especially now that women mostly stop going to bars like pre-2013, so it's easily 99/1 or 99.5/0.5 now in western cities.
Traveling seems to even it up a bit.
Best way to see how easy it is sometimes is by using a solid 8 guy with natural pictures and a small bio. With that you can get 50 out of a 100 swipes.
Quote: (01-05-2019 08:32 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comments...ow_effort/
Tinder isn't amazing for Chads either . A lot of 1000 swipe experiments. Never came across a fake Chad who had higher than 8%. And in all seriousness only a fraction of that 8% would actually be down to fuck (so call it a 1% or 2% fuck rate? So if you've right swiped 100 chicks on Tinder and you're decent looking / good looking then you should only expect 1 or 2 will put out). Yeah I've banged women off Tinder in western cities but it's a lot of work compared to Tindering in Asia.
Not sure why every guy seems to parrot the 80/20. In the singles dating pool, especially now that women mostly stop going to bars like pre-2013, so it's easily 99/1 or 99.5/0.5 now in western cities.
Traveling seems to even it up a bit.
Quote: (01-05-2019 11:06 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:
1) Who the hell uses dating apps these days? You have to be a fool to do so because you are just validating 6s as 9s. Just go out and day and/or night game. Yeah, rejection sucks (as Roosh's book Game will note) and everyone knows the feeling of it but you miss 100% of the shots you do not take.
2) Is it any surprise that hypergamy is the name of the game for women. Women will shit on anyone who they perceive to be inferior but will do anything they can to get their hands on a man who they perceive to be alpha while acting almost violently against their competitors. Little different than what Jews will go to lengths to get the attention of the rising star while ignoring the low value options and plotting to get rid of the competition.
Quote: (01-05-2019 11:06 PM)PharaohRa Wrote:
1) Who the hell uses dating apps these days? You have to be a fool to do so because you are just validating 6s as 9s. Just go out and day and/or night game. Yeah, rejection sucks (as Roosh's book Game will note) and everyone knows the feeling of it but you miss 100% of the shots you do not take.
Quote: (01-06-2019 06:44 AM)roberto Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 08:32 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comments...ow_effort/
Tinder isn't amazing for Chads either . A lot of 1000 swipe experiments. Never came across a fake Chad who had higher than 8%. And in all seriousness only a fraction of that 8% would actually be down to fuck (so call it a 1% or 2% fuck rate? So if you've right swiped 100 chicks on Tinder and you're decent looking / good looking then you should only expect 1 or 2 will put out). Yeah I've banged women off Tinder in western cities but it's a lot of work compared to Tindering in Asia.
Not sure why every guy seems to parrot the 80/20. In the singles dating pool, especially now that women mostly stop going to bars like pre-2013, so it's easily 99/1 or 99.5/0.5 now in western cities.
Traveling seems to even it up a bit.
A quick skim of that Reddit thread seems to suggest that the experiment was run as a white guy in Japan. I'd imagine Tinder is a somewhat different game there due to cultural differences.
Quote: (01-05-2019 03:53 PM)LINUX Wrote:
You need to wake up bro. You're living in la la land. Chicks are rubbing one out to jacked masculine men, firemen, and black dudes with 12 inch dicks.
Your theory of women dating a smooth talking salesman with good style is a concocted by men too lazy to hit the gym to improve themselves. And yes, women will eventually date these men, after they've had their fun with other men who had no interest in them as something more than a one night lay.
I know it's sad, but it's reality.
Quote: (01-05-2019 03:43 PM)Graft Wrote:
1. Fun, interesting life with exclusive events, traveling or huge parties, concerts (status)
2. Facial looks
3. Social Circle
4. Money that's not going into a 401k (money that is spent on point #1)
5. Height/body
Quote: (01-06-2019 04:49 AM)BaatumMania Wrote:But its not impossible.
Quote: (01-06-2019 02:31 AM)flyinghorse Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 08:32 PM)BaatumMania Wrote:Some of the studies are pure shite because they use a male model that nobody would believe is actually using tinder.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comments...ow_effort/
Tinder isn't amazing for Chads either . A lot of 1000 swipe experiments. Never came across a fake Chad who had higher than 8%. And in all seriousness only a fraction of that 8% would actually be down to fuck (so call it a 1% or 2% fuck rate? So if you've right swiped 100 chicks on Tinder and you're decent looking / good looking then you should only expect 1 or 2 will put out). Yeah I've banged women off Tinder in western cities but it's a lot of work compared to Tindering in Asia.
Not sure why every guy seems to parrot the 80/20. In the singles dating pool, especially now that women mostly stop going to bars like pre-2013, so it's easily 99/1 or 99.5/0.5 now in western cities.
Traveling seems to even it up a bit.
Best way to see how easy it is sometimes is by using a solid 8 guy with natural pictures and a small bio. With that you can get 50 out of a 100 swipes.
Well I do recall coming across Tinder swipe experiments where the man was more "normal" (not a jacked body or face) and they always had under 2%.
Pretty much the Tinder data I found interesting was a guy on Bodybuilding dotcom who used a GPS spoofer and tried different cities around the world. As one would expect, he had pretty good results in a lot of Asian countries and poor results in most western countries.
I think I mentioned this but for some reason when I try to look for these things on Google nothing comes up on search. I'm inclined to think Tinder itself might be telling Google to take them off search results (because it would expose how impossible Tinder is for most men).
Quote: (01-06-2019 09:37 AM)Teedub Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2019 03:53 PM)LINUX Wrote:
You need to wake up bro. You're living in la la land. Chicks are rubbing one out to jacked masculine men, firemen, and black dudes with 12 inch dicks.
Your theory of women dating a smooth talking salesman with good style is a concocted by men too lazy to hit the gym to improve themselves. And yes, women will eventually date these men, after they've had their fun with other men who had no interest in them as something more than a one night lay.
I know it's sad, but it's reality.
I don't think that's necessarily all there is to it. Otherwise Bodybuilding.com's 'Misc' forum wouldn't have thread after thread of guys in great shape (they post photos) moaning they can't get laid.
snipped quote
I have a friend who has 1 in abundance (along with great social skills), and always has a girlfriend that's better looking than him, though nobody questions it because of society's unwritten rule that status in men is equal to beauty in women. However, after a break up he decided to take his chances on a dating app... he did badly because his value couldn't be displayed on there. It was basically just his looks and it wasn't enough. I think he was quite surprised, and it led to some introspection. If he looked like Henry Cavill, would he do even better in real life? Probably, sure. But even Cavill himself says he wasn't exactly swimming in women before fame. And he's looked like that for most of his adult life (which was before Tinder though, admittedly). His status was the factorial change.
snippped
Funny story: I was in Tallinn a few years ago making out in a bar with a 6. I sat down with her and her friends and was holding court as best I could. Later on in McDonalds I spotted a (facially ugly) bald guy with a pretty hot girl. I played a thought experiment since it's an online dating bugbear of mine. I asked the group "do you reckon they met on Tinder?" One of the girls said "I don't think I'd swipe yes to a bald guy", then eventually (maybe out of herd mentality, admittedly) the group agreed... including the girl I'd been kissing and groping an hour earlier. Then I looked to her and said "So what the fuck are you doing with me then?" and smirked. Then almost in unison they were like "Oh yeah, oh my god I only just noticed". I thought it was very interesting to say the least, and hopefully it gave them food for thought. I took the girl home, got the +1, but never saw her again.
Quote: (08-18-2016 12:05 PM)dicknixon72 Wrote:
...and nothing quite surprises me anymore. If I looked out my showroom window and saw a fully-nude woman force-fucking an alligator with a strap-on while snorting xanex on the roof of her rental car with her three children locked inside with the windows rolled up, I wouldn't be entirely amazed.
