[Emancipator]

Elon Musk is a smart dude, the whole collapse in his image currently is mostly due to the fact that he has opinions different from the power players at the top, very fishy!

Has been attacked by big money behind conventional gas vehicles forever.
Problem now, has he's been slowly revealing his power levels, Jwoke?
There is a huge big media effort behind discrediting him, especially moreso after him attacking the blue check mark journalists.
Media is a powerful tool, they can attack his wallet via making him seem to be in complete breakdown mode, and attacks on Tesla, publicly traded.
Quick Google news search on Musk and Joe Rogan were op-eds attacking him from the usual online garbage publications, with a new attack being the puffing of the blunt (doubt he got high, dude puffed it like a cigar), trying to spin the narrative as "the US Gov will revoke his security clearance for violating drug policy"

Great video, Musk on demographics

Dude's going through a lot, erratic as shit right now, hopefully he pulls through this current life challenge, he's a benefit to Western Civilization.

[Emancipator]

(09-08-2018 04:39 PM)Laner Wrote:  

I finished the podcast. I thought it was excellent. I really want guys like Musk to succeed, and I liked how they talked about how if there were 100 guys like Tesla around back then, how much more we could achieve.

Like all very smart men, there is a certain amount of loneliness they have. It was actually a bit heartbreaking to hear him say to Rogan, with a bit of surprise in his voice, that anyone would want to be him. "Nobody would want to be me". The way he described thinking he was insane at the age of 5 when he realized that not everyone had a brain that was full of "continuous explosions" was the real sad part. Imagine being the parent of this tormented boy. And imagine having to live with a mind that is in constant 'hyperhype'.

Without much fanfare, I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he says. We do need to change the transportation industry, and today is the day to start as it will take decades to do it.

Moving in a 3D world is much more efficient then in a 2D plane. Tunnels are a way to do this. "Its just a big pit". I love his simplicity at getting big ideas out there.

His approach to AI is interesting as well. Would AI be so willing to kill the host if it needs humans for its own survival? Time will tell, and their technology coming out first is probably a good thing.

Politicians are retards when it comes to understanding the big picture. We are an advanced species relying on tech for almost all of our survival. Yet we are regulated by politicians who know more about hair die then how to boot a computer.

Great points, bolded reminds me of something I saw the other that I found baffling

"Subject experienced themselves as innerly talking to themselves in 26% of all samples, but there were large individual differences: some subjects never experienced inner speech; other subjects experienced inner speech in as many as 75% of their samples. The median percentage across subjects was 20%"

How can one never have inner speech?

[rpg]

Low IQ people dont.

[questor70]

(09-08-2018 10:25 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  

hopefully he pulls through this current life challenge, he's a benefit to Western Civilization.

Let's stop pedestalizing the guy.

That a lot of people want him to fail doesn't mean he isn't capable of imploding purely due to his own incompetence.

Sure, his intentions are good, and he has an amazing work-ethic, but Musk has wasted more money at Tesla than it would probably cost to build a tinyhouse for every homeless person in america or to completely rebuild Michigan's lead-tainted plumbing multiple times over. Think about all of the people who quietly work for charities like the Salvation Army or the March of Dimes. They aren't crashing their McLaren F1s or banging Amber Heard. They don't have the ability to attract the kind of money Musk has, but they are out there to help people directly, without a profit motive. Only in the US do we look at the capitalist system as an engine of social good. In most cases, all it produces is a few rich CEOs (like Musk) and bubble-like companies that live fast and die young. I far prefer capitalism to communism but I don't delude myself into thinking people like Musk are the best examples humanity has to offer.

So if you want to declare the guy a savior, wait until he actually accomplishes his mission instead of just running up huge debts while always fixating on the future.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

(09-08-2018 10:35 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  

(09-08-2018 04:39 PM)Laner Wrote:  

I finished the podcast. I thought it was excellent. I really want guys like Musk to succeed, and I liked how they talked about how if there were 100 guys like Tesla around back then, how much more we could achieve.

Like all very smart men, there is a certain amount of loneliness they have. It was actually a bit heartbreaking to hear him say to Rogan, with a bit of surprise in his voice, that anyone would want to be him. "Nobody would want to be me". The way he described thinking he was insane at the age of 5 when he realized that not everyone had a brain that was full of "continuous explosions" was the real sad part. Imagine being the parent of this tormented boy. And imagine having to live with a mind that is in constant 'hyperhype'.

Without much fanfare, I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he says. We do need to change the transportation industry, and today is the day to start as it will take decades to do it.

Moving in a 3D world is much more efficient then in a 2D plane. Tunnels are a way to do this. "Its just a big pit". I love his simplicity at getting big ideas out there.

His approach to AI is interesting as well. Would AI be so willing to kill the host if it needs humans for its own survival? Time will tell, and their technology coming out first is probably a good thing.

Politicians are retards when it comes to understanding the big picture. We are an advanced species relying on tech for almost all of our survival. Yet we are regulated by politicians who know more about hair die then how to boot a computer.

Great points, bolded reminds me of something I saw the other that I found baffling

"Subject experienced themselves as innerly talking to themselves in 26% of all samples, but there were large individual differences: some subjects never experienced inner speech; other subjects experienced inner speech in as many as 75% of their samples. The median percentage across subjects was 20%"

How can one never have inner speech?

By inner speech, do they mean when you think inside your head, as if you were talking to yourself, but silently? I've done that since I was a toddler. Are they saying only 20% do this? I assume that is 20% of a 100 IQ average population sample.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(09-08-2018 09:42 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(09-08-2018 10:57 AM)robreke Wrote:  

I listened to the Rogan podcast with Musk and I disagree with the guys here that he doesn't seem particularly intelligent on the interview.

To me, he comes across as a brilliant visionary and a deep and incisive thinker. Some of his views on the future of technology, cars, AI and even how traffic will be managed are impressive, if not ambitious.

I do disagree with Musk on a minority of issues such as global warming and his apocalyptic view of it.

Although a visionary, I would compare him, but not put him on the same level as Steve Jobs. If you want to hear a true genius interviewed, just pull up any of the 5+ minute interviews of Jobs on Youtube and you'll hear one and get a gist of how a brilliant person engages others, thinks and speaks.

I think the thing that maybe throwing off some of the ones here who listened to Musk is that he comes across as a little autistic, or at the very least, he exhibits mild autistic characteristics.

These kinds of tendencies aren't rare for very smart people (even geniuses) who excel and are hyper-focused in one area (technology for example on Musk) What he possesses in abundance in academic and scientific IQ he seems to lack in social and perhaps emotional intelligence.

If nothing else, he's a very motivated, highly-success minded individual who pushes himself and all those around him to and even past the limits everyone thought they were capable of. There's something to be learned there.

He get's paid for pushing the apocalyptic environmental agenda. His company wouldn't exist without government support because of the environmental hysteria.

The people at the top don't believe in that agenda themselves - I have a ton of quotes by the movers and shakers who clearly state that even if it's all humbug, that they want to push the Agenda 21 through no matter what.

Musk was riding on those coat-tails like a hamster on coke - straight to billions. Thus the entire preamble and demonization of CO2 is footed on insanity and globalist plans that have nothing to do with "saving nature". I also disagree on his other cyberpunk-AI-neural-implant-Orwellian ideas.

Wonder also why people call him inventor - he is a businessman with technical knowledge who was using well the globalist agendas. There is nothing wrong with that and more power to him.

Besides - his achievements before Tesla are frankly more impressive to me - making his first xx-millions creating a Zip-software, then reaching xxx-mio-status with Paypal.

Quote:

In April 2017, Tesla announced that it surpassed General Motors to become the most valuable U.S. car maker.

But statements like that? That is just bullshit and nothing more than dot-com-babble.

https://www.biography.com/people/elon-musk-20837159

[Trumpian]

(09-08-2018 10:25 AM)Belgrano Wrote:  

(09-08-2018 08:48 AM)asdfk Wrote:  

He doesn't strike me as particularly intelligent.

(09-08-2018 09:51 AM)Trumpian Wrote:  

Musk has always striked me as a classic case of an educated idiot. I mean his whole fortune is built on public subsidies.

World population: 7 500 000 000 people
Number of billionaires: ~3000 people
Elon Musk: Billionaire

What are the odds that he's an idiot?

It's incredibly American to equate wealth with intelligence.

Loads of paupers in Mensa despite whatever Jordan Peterson has to say on the matter. But Mr. Clean your room is another classic case.

[Flux]

Of course wealth is correlated to intelligence in a capitalist society with a free market; you denying the fact makes you sound like a bitter pseudo intellectual.

Capitalism rewards those that either give the most value to society or those that can out smart and con people. Either one has to be in the very least intelligent and/or have a talent that is very rare.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

< Wealth is correlated, but I read some studies and there are just thresholds.

They tested self-made millionaires - single digit or decamillionaires - and they came out around 110-112 on average.

Homeless in contrast came out around 80, so there is a correlation, but you don't need 180 to make billions - in fact most don't.

There are no studies that I know that tested the few billionaires - most have lots of inherited money, so it's hard to say really.

[Trumpian]

(09-09-2018 03:36 AM)Flux Wrote:  

Of course wealth is correlated to intelligence in a capitalist society with a free market; you denying the fact makes you sound like a bitter pseudo intellectual.

Capitalism rewards those that either give the most value to society or those that can out smart and con people. Either one has to be in the very least intelligent and/or have a talent that is very rare.

Thanks, Ayn Rand.

You realize neither Tesla or Solarcity would have existed in a free market, right?

And how does coning people having to do with capitalism? It's a system entirely built on trust.

I may be a pseudo intellectual but at least I have an elementary grasp of economics haha.

[Flux]

In a non capitalist society there would be no one to con, because everyone but those in government would be dirt poor, and there would most likely be a police state sending criminals to concentration camps anyway.

Every country that works well today is a capitalist country: it’s the only thing that works.

@Simeon —Managing large amounts of money requires high intelligence because only that can give you the required self control. Intelligence and only intelligence gives you the option to disobey your urges and instincts; the more of it you have the more powerful the urges you can control.

Money corrupts and intelligence among other things is needed to manage it: whether that intelligence is fully appreciated by IQ scores is highly questionable. IQ scores deferentiate the stupid from the average, and the average from the bright, but I don’t believe they can measure genius, creativity, drive, emotional control, or wisdom: all things crucial in the making and maintaining of money.

[Trumpian]

I never argued against capitalism. I argued that the most successful people in a capitalist society aren't necessarily the most intelligent ones. And as you yourself admitted, theyew not necessarily people creating value either.

It's a fucked up system. But there isn't a better alternative.

[Trumpian]

Some more musings on capitalism though. You provided a good reason why it inevitably spirals into a corrupt cesspool.

Smart people cheat and con. Studies demonstrate that even in childhood.

Capitalism works on the assumption of a level playing field. But only a retard is comfortable playing on that field.

If I feel physically threatened, I'm not going to inform my adversary on my intent to fight them or ask them to step outside. I'm gonna jab them in the throat and knee their ballsack.

When you strip away legal safeguards, societal shaming, and fear of eternal punishment - there's no reason to treat business any differently.

[Icarus]

(09-09-2018 03:36 AM)Flux Wrote:  

Of course wealth is correlated to intelligence in a capitalist society with a free market

Note that "equate" and "correlate" are not the same.

[Flux]

The point I’m trying to make is that whatever shortcomings you think you have in your life, they are your responsibility, not society’s.

The people that get wealthy have various traits that are extremely valuable and rare, intelligence being one of them.

I don’t believe in wasted potential or in unfairness that is not biological: you will reach your potential and you are what you tangibly accomplish: no excuses.

[Trumpian]

^So we're agreed. Intelligence is just one of those traits. And as long as you're in the median range, it's not a deciding factor in wealth accumulation.

[Icarus]

(09-09-2018 05:04 AM)Flux Wrote:  

The people that get wealthy have various traits that are extremely valuable and rare, intelligence being one of them.

People I know who went into investment banking and private equity and who got wealthy had rare qualities, but high intelligence was not one of them. Social and political skills, focus, the ability to submit to authority, the ability to suffer, high stamina, etc were much more valuable.

Many people who get rich are much closer to athletes than to geniuses.

[jordypip23]

Even high IQ, intelligent folks can have low points in their career or business dealings. The true test is whether or not they can remain persistent & resilient amidst the low points & times of adversity. Gotta be able to weather the storm. Business is never pure peaches & cream.

[Flux]

I’m not really talking about your average millionaire, I’m referring to the top billionaire club of which Musk is a part of.

To get to that level you need to have elite traits all around the board and elite intelligence can only help you.

It’s very likely that these men are geniuses, even if that’s only part of why they accomplished what they did.

Anyway, a certain branch of emotional intelligence is what helps you with women, and to my knowledge it’s completely unrelated to wealth.

Elon clearly lacks that quality but that doesn’t take anything away from his feats.

[jordypip23]

(09-09-2018 05:32 AM)Flux Wrote:  

Anyway, a certain branch of emotional intelligence is what helps you with women, and to my knowledge it’s completely unrelated to wealth.

Elon clearly lacks that quality but that doesn’t take anything away from his feats.

Ain't that the truth? Some of the guys that I knew who were best at dealing with women were just middle class Joe Schmoes. And a lot of them are arguably better at dealing with women than Elon Musk.

[Icarus]

I have a question for those pedestalizing Musk and calling him a "visionary genius". What has he done that is immensely impressive?

SpaceX has not done anything more impressive than what NASA did in the 1960s. Back then, NASA had a virtually unlimited budget and lots of extremely talented people. Since then, NASA was infected with affirmative action and became a social welfare program. SpaceX's impressive achievements are not technical per se. What is impressive is doing what they do without being utterly insulated from the market.

Tesla has clearly ridden the wave created by cell phones and laptops. Starting in the mid 1990s, due to the huge demand for better cell phone batteries, enough progress was made in electrochemistry. Musk saw that the technology was becoming mature enough for electric vehicles. That was not impressive per se. In fact, Tesla rode two waves: the technological wave mentioned above and the "carbon emissions are bad" wave engineered by PR firms. Some educated people actually believe that CO2 is a pollutant. It's impressive what propaganda can achieve...

Note that many Silicon Valley big swinging dicks made their money in the exuberant 1990s. Paul Graham, Peter Thiel, Marc Andreessen, etc. Musk was one of them. What I find most impressive about Musk is that instead of "retiring" and becoming an investor who bets on dozens of projects and is highly diversified (like Paul Graham, Peter Thiel, and Marc Andreessen), he had the giant balls to bet most of his wealth on only 2-3 highly risky commercial enterprises. Visionary genius? I would call him a ballsy gambler.

Once you have enough resources at your disposal, you can create the future. The term "visionary" implies the ability to foresee the future. However, when you have self-fulfilling prophecies, it's clear that "visionary" is used to cater to those who have a deep spiritual need for heroes to worship. It's not a personality trait.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(09-09-2018 05:19 AM)Icarus Wrote:  

(09-09-2018 05:04 AM)Flux Wrote:  

The people that get wealthy have various traits that are extremely valuable and rare, intelligence being one of them.

People I know who went into investment banking and private equity and who got wealthy had rare qualities, but high intelligence was not one of them. Social and political skills, focus, the ability to submit to authority, the ability to suffer, high stamina, etc were much more valuable.

Many people who get rich are much closer to athletes than to geniuses.

Yeah - but I bet you that most of them tested above 120+ on standardized IQ tests - not extremely high, but still way above average. You can have all the stamina you want, but if you don't meet a necessary threshold of talent, then it's not going to happen. The comparison to an athlete is valid in this case.

[CynicalContrarian]

Re: Elon.
When it comes to viewing a simple coffee table.

Some folk see a mere coffee table.
Some folk will see engineered / manufactured wood.
Some folk will see the style & design.
Fewer folk still, will see a sea of atoms & particles held together by the forces of the universe...

[Ski pro]

(09-07-2018 04:37 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(09-07-2018 03:43 PM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

They should have known that they had a limited window of opportunity and when Mercedes and Audi hit with their electric luxury models, then things are going to get tough.

Are you sure? BMW launched the i3 in 2013. Did anyone even notice?



What do Mercedes and Audi have that BMW does not?

Are Tesla's troubles due to Tesla's management, Tesla's shareholders, U.S. laws and regulations, or is there something fundamentally wrong with the economics of electric vehicles?

I’ve driven the i3. It’s a good little car and there are loads of them around where I live. It wasn’t as fast as the Tesla but it was better put together.

[debeguiled]

i3s look cool though there is something emblematic about the modern world in the fact that when you think you are hearing engine sounds, you are listening to enginesound.mp3 over the speakers.