[Lino]

(08-16-2018 06:22 AM)Bikal Wrote:  

(08-16-2018 05:00 AM)Lino Wrote:  

The ones in the the 30+ range were ... career women.

Personally I'm of the opinion that when I hit the wall as it were and want to settle down, a career woman would be a good choice as she should have not only advanced quite far, hopefully, but should have significant savings to match my own, again hopefully, to make a larger house purchase easier and when we have kids, easier to fund private school as while I can afford to fund it all myself, I wouldn't mind a woman who works in a good job, contributing to costs.

Although I could be completely wrong altogether and I'll end up with a busted feminazi who is feckless and doesn't want to work after the birth of her kids.

When I say a career woman I mean a woman whose career is her priority and goes before her family.

[Bikal]

(08-16-2018 06:30 AM)Lino Wrote:  

When I say a career woman I mean a woman whose career is her priority and goes before her family.

I understood that but what I'm saying is that they'll want kids at some point and then go back to work, you can have both you know unless you meant a spinster like Bridget Jones?

[Lino]

(08-16-2018 06:54 AM)Bikal Wrote:  

(08-16-2018 06:30 AM)Lino Wrote:  

When I say a career woman I mean a woman whose career is her priority and goes before her family.

I understood that but what I'm saying is that they'll want kids at some point and then go back to work, you can have both you know unless you meant a spinster like Bridget Jones?

I think you are only seeing the bright side, money is not all. A career woman won’t do anything that might block her career. Many of these women are late thirties and don’t have kids.
I have a female friend who is smart and university educated. She stopped working for 2 years after her pregnancy and now negociated to leave work everyday 3 hours earlier, her salary is the same but she won’t have a promotion or a pay raise anytime soon, she is aware of it and is fine with it as her priority is her kids and it’s a good thing.

Now imagine a real career woman, you might finish work late yourself, imagine your kids if their mom often comes home late (after 8pm) and doesn’t have free time to do activities with them. They will spend more time with a nanny than with their mom. This will also end up in conflicts between you.
That’s how I see it, anglosaxon career women try to behave like men, the hardcore ones won’t properly take care of their kids.

[CleanSlate]

(08-16-2018 07:22 AM)Lino Wrote:  

Now imagine a real career woman, you might finish work late yourself, imagine your kids if their mom often comes home late (after 8pm) and doesn’t have free time to do activities with them. They will spend more time with a nanny than with their mom. This will also end up in conflicts between you.

Good post. I would also add that with the public education system the way it is today (at least in the States), teachers would fall into the career women category. Many teachers have been working 11 hour days for some time and without increasing pay. They come home late, don't cook dinner, and hardly spend much time with the kids.

[Bateman]

Great reflections, as always!

I believe that this is also relevant for guys dating EE girls in western countries.
Cute EE girls who were raised outside the west tend to be more shy and humble that the girls here, since the culture is teaching them to be loud and "stand up against the men".

As you pointed out, highly social girls are in most cases not good LTR material due to their need of validation from others that their BF or family. If its important for them to get many likes on IG or to have a crew of beautiful and cool girlfriends, its definitely a red flag.

I would argue that a beautiful EE girl having mostly unattractive/mediocre girlfriends, is actually a positive sign, since its an indicator that having a high group status is not important for her.
I know plenty of western girls from university that choose their friends based on looks, wealth and so on.

Rich EE girls tend to be way more focused on the group status than girls who come
from a poor background. I´ve been in LTRs with both types and its very easy to separate them just by looking at their Instagram (nature, dogs and cups of tea compared to sexy pics and fancy dinners that she didn't pay for)

The rich ones will boost you status more and be the girl other dudes envy, while the poor ones are offering more true commitment and are less likely to drop you for a guy of higher value in the west, as long as you treat her right.

[buja]

(08-16-2018 08:15 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Many teachers have been working 11 hour days for some time and without increasing pay. They come home late, don't cook dinner, and hardly spend much time with the kids.

I doubt there are any government school teachers working 11 hour days.

Unless, they have a really long commute...or coach sports.

"But they spend all weekend correcting papers!"

Yeah, right!

[buja]

(08-15-2018 06:05 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

Hate or love the US culturally. Its the best place to live economically speaking. And that's important to consider when starting a family.

For an employee...Yes.
For an entrepreneur...No.

[dodo8]

(08-15-2018 03:33 PM)droughtmeat Wrote:  

(08-15-2018 01:37 PM)dodo8 Wrote:  

The concept of going to less developed countries to get a more "innocent" girl is so flawed. Women will always be women, if anything the west is a good test for a girls character. If you meet a girl that's from a less well off country you won't really be seeing her true self more so you will be seeing what she shows off cause she is in a bad situation. In the west and more well off countries girls will act how they really want to, you're getting a clearer picture of how a girl really is. So for this reason even though the west is shitty sometimes I still think it can be a better place to meet more genuine women.

Yes, I agree with the idea that the West is basically a test to see who they really are.
I tried to imagine life for any good looking girl in the West. This is how I envision it with the roles reserved and you as the man being treated by women the way men treat girls here:

You wake up in the morning, check your phone, you have 15 notifications: 5 tinder messages from girls with really nice bodies trying to make you laugh in the messages, 3 missed calls from your ex-girlfriend, 1 long whatsapp voice message from a chick you met last week but she was drunk when sending the message. In the message she tells you how handsome she thinks you are and that she really wants you to just give her a chance to see you again. She thinks you're very special. The rest are messages from other women.

Once you get up you take a selfie in front a dirty bathroom mirror. You upload the picture on facebook , which will generate about 120 likes over the course of the day and comments from girls saying that you are an extremely handsome man.

Next up a girl from abroad sends you a message on facebook. She says that you're exceptionally handsome and that she would like to see you. She offers to pay for your flight to her country and will take care of all the other expenses too. If you ever lost your ambition, you could live with her, she would shed tears of joy over you living off of her money.

At night at the club there are a lot of women with great bodies. They go to the gym regularly and count their calories just to impress you. One of them has the guts to approach you, she recently attended a bootcamp to learn how to talk to men, it cost 2000 bucks for 3 days, she is extremely nervous and doesn't manage to talk to you properly. She offers to buy you a drink. Then she regains her composure and you guys end up kissing and you give her your number.
She immediately goes back to her friends that give her high fives and hugs, she even creates a thread in an online forum and tells other women about what happened...some of them feel inspired...others think it's a hoax, they don't believe it's possible to talk to a man like you...

You simply go to sleep and call it a normal day

Yeah I agree the amount of attention and validation a girl in the west gets is insane but people often blame women but in reality men are the ones that are putting women on a pedestal and fucking a of shit up. It's just not natural the amount of attention good looking women get and it also destroys their ability to actually care about 1 individual. Many good looking women can easily get 10000s of thousands tinder matches or whatever the max that tinders allows. Even if they are not a conventionally famous person if they are good looking they can become insta famous getting thousands or 10s+ thousands of likes on there photos. imagine if a tens of thousands of women were coming up to you let's visualize that for a second not just on tinder but in real life. If you have 10s of thousands of people vying for your attention how the fuck do you even choose one suitable partner? You have so many options at that point so you will not connect with a single person by default you will be forced to choose multiple partners. This is what thirsty men are turning the world into.

[BallsDeep]

(08-15-2018 08:48 AM)Riquelme Wrote:  

I can only speak from personal experience. In the UK, the top private schools are outstanding. The state schools vary from decent to awful. The best international schools are comparable to private schools in the UK and they are much less infected with SJW nonsense than state schools. Don't have experience of the US system, but I get the impression it's no great shakes and full of the aforementioned nonsense.

I recently spent two days in an EE state school in an affluent neighbourhood. The difference is night and day compared to what's on offer at international schools. Those local kids will be at a huge disadvantage versus their peers at the international school down the road.

I'm in full agreement that an elite international school would be essential. At what age do you think it becomes necessary?

I ask because spending 20k per annum is a bit hefty on a 5 year old. Then again there are some 5 year olds who can identify fifty countries on a globe while others are still learning colors.

[scotian]

(08-16-2018 05:00 AM)Lino Wrote:  

@Scotian: what about the attitude of these latina in Canada? Talking about the ones who spent a few years there already.

When I was in London I banged a few brasilian girls, the ones who just arrived were a delight. They were not comfortable yet with the culture and it was a big plus for me to know a bit about the brasilian culture, being able to communicate with them in their native language (with my extremely basic portuguese) was also a plus.

However, the ones who were in London since a few years were ALL totally westernized and some of them became actually way more entitled than native english women. IMO finding an attractive brazilian who is in the west since many years and who kept her « qualities » is exceptional, I never met any.

The ones in the the 30+ range were either single moms entitled and feminists, either career women. Mind you, even the ugly ones became entitled.

It’s a bit tricky because on one hand they have to be able to adapt to their new environment so becoming more westernised in the process is normal. I think finding one who arrived in her early 20’s, is in the west since 5 or 10 years and is still traditional and submissive is impossible.

On a side note some people misunderstand « submissive », even on this forum some members have a negative definition of it. To me it doesn’t mean she is only allowed to clean, cook and fuck you. It is more a feminine trait of being non argumentative, doing all she can to keep a family united and harmonious and respecting you as a man.

I date these Latinas in Canada as a stopgap between trips to Colombia, so I haven't dated any of them long enough to notice how westernized they've become but one thing that I really like is that they show up on time! So yes, they do adopt some western habits, which aren't all that bad, like punctuality. Honestly I think it's a bit overblown here on RVF, the amount that a girl gets westernized and in my opinion it isn't such a bad thing, to a certain extent, obviously you don't want to date a huge cunt but I've never dated Canadian women who are huge cunts (yes, they exist) so it isn't really an issue I've ever thought much about. All of these Latinas have been fun and pleasant to be around.

Guys, its a trade off, yes the girl will adopt some western habits if she moves and won't be the sweet little feminine angel she was back home but the best part is that you won't have to live in her third world shit hole, trust me, that gets old too.

I'm flying a Colombian girl I met on Tinder from Edmonton to Toronto in ten days and we're going to make the 36 hour drive out there together, I've never met her but we've been chatting on whatsapp for a few months. I just need someone to keep me company during the drive and hopefully get some road skull, this could be the worse idea ever, hopefully I don't have to drop her off at the Grey Hound station in Thunder Bay!!!

[Captain Gh]

(08-16-2018 12:38 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(08-16-2018 05:00 AM)Lino Wrote:  

@Scotian: what about the attitude of these latina in Canada? Talking about the ones who spent a few years there already.

When I was in London I banged a few brasilian girls, the ones who just arrived were a delight. They were not comfortable yet with the culture and it was a big plus for me to know a bit about the brasilian culture, being able to communicate with them in their native language (with my extremely basic portuguese) was also a plus.

However, the ones who were in London since a few years were ALL totally westernized and some of them became actually way more entitled than native english women. IMO finding an attractive brazilian who is in the west since many years and who kept her « qualities » is exceptional, I never met any.

The ones in the the 30+ range were either single moms entitled and feminists, either career women. Mind you, even the ugly ones became entitled.

It’s a bit tricky because on one hand they have to be able to adapt to their new environment so becoming more westernised in the process is normal. I think finding one who arrived in her early 20’s, is in the west since 5 or 10 years and is still traditional and submissive is impossible.

On a side note some people misunderstand « submissive », even on this forum some members have a negative definition of it. To me it doesn’t mean she is only allowed to clean, cook and fuck you. It is more a feminine trait of being non argumentative, doing all she can to keep a family united and harmonious and respecting you as a man.

I date these Latinas in Canada as a stopgap between trips to Colombia, so I haven't dated any of them long enough to notice how westernized they've become but one thing that I really like is that they show up on time! So yes, they do adopt some western habits, which aren't all that bad, like punctuality. Honestly I think it's a bit overblown here on RVF, the amount that a girl gets westernized and in my opinion it isn't such a bad thing, to a certain extent, obviously you don't want to date a huge cunt but I've never dated Canadian women who are huge cunts (yes, they exist) so it isn't really an issue I've ever thought much about. All of these Latinas have been fun and pleasant to be around.

Guys, its a trade off, yes the girl will adopt some western habits if she moves and won't be the sweet little feminine angel she was back home but the best part is that you won't have to live in her third world shit hole, trust me, that gets old too.

I'm flying a Colombian girl I met on Tinder from Edmonton to Toronto in ten days and we're going to make the 36 hour drive out there together, I've never met her but we've been chatting on whatsapp for a few months. I just need someone to keep me company during the drive and hopefully get some road skull, this could be the worse idea ever, hopefully I don't have to drop her off at the Grey Hound station in Thunder Bay!!!

Man Be Sure To Report Back That Trip Playa!

[scotian]

^Will do, when I drove east three months ago I flew out a white Canadian girl I met at a resort in the DR last year (she was with her now ex there lol) and we banged the whole trip then I dropped her off at home in southern Ontario. Long road trips kind of suck but when you get laid at the end of the night and in the morning before hitting the road it makes them much more bearable.

[Rocha]

Regarding OP I don't have much to add in terms of answers, appart from that I don't see any point in taking one girl from a post-communist country to another similar one, other perhaps than to taking her away from bitchy/abusive family. Taking a girl out of Ukraine makes sense to me to go somewhere with good nature and quality of living all year round, somewhere nice to raise a family, like Liguria, Sardinia, Cote D'Azur, Tenerife, South of Spain, Madeira, Algarve, eg, maybe Croatian coast could be an exception in post communist countries.

One thing I would like to point out regarding similarly themed threads is the general and nonsensical notion of:

Eastern girl = sweet and feminine
Western (or westernised) girl = feminist, bitchy and caroussel rider

There are plenty of grey areas in this.

[JimBobsCooters]

(08-16-2018 03:25 AM)scotian Wrote:  

I've done fairly well with Latinas in Canada, met them mostly online but also at Latin bars and events, in the past year I've banged a few from various Latin countries and they all tell me that they like the fact that they can speak Spanish with me and that I can dance. All of them want to date local Canadian dudes but many of them are shy/nervous about the language barrier and cultural differences but since I speak the language and understand their culture, it isn't much of a problem. I think it's a solid strategy; go live in whatever country you want to learn the language and culture then come back home and target those girls specifically.

I've spent over two years in Latin America (mostly Colombia) and thought about bringing a chica back home but as has been mentioned in this thread, it's not easy to take a girl away from her culture and family. If she is already in your country then she's done all of the hard work herself and if she's been there for awhile then she's likely gotten over the home sickness part and wants to stay. Most of the girls I dated love Canada and have no desire to go back home except to visit, of course they miss certain things but they seem to enjoy life in a developed country.

The down side of course is that these girls tend to be a point or two less attractive and generally a few years older than the ones I bang in Colombia, around 26-34 in Canada instead of my usual 18-24 down there jajajaja.

They come over after they've "aged out", best bet in that latina crowd from experience over in Aus, where we have a lot relocate, is to play the social circle game with them and hope a younger sister comes across if you want the ideal combination of looks and age. Obviously would want to research the existence of said sister first!

[Vladimir Poontang]

I'm glad to see this thread. I prefer these kinds of conversations to data sheets. This is way more important, and it's about time this kind of thing was discussed more.

There are just so many dilemmas. For example, if you're from country A and you go to live in country B and find a girl, your kids will be half A and half B. And if you take her to live in country C, that makes it even more complicated. They'll be 1/2 A and half B living in country C.

Also, who will your sons go with? Will they go with a girl from your wife's country, or yours? Or some other country? Will your grandkids be 1/4 the same as you, 1/4 same as your wife, and 1/2 something else? If this matters to you, it could be a problem.

Then there's language. if you're in her country will you speak her language, or will you insist that you all speak english (or whatever is your native language) at home as well as to each other in public while everyone else is speaking the language of her country?

What about splitting your time between 2 countries? Is that practical? How will your kids feel growing up in 2 cultures? How often will you be able to visit the other country? Will it be often enough to give your kids a taste of both cultures? What if you just stick to one country? Wouldn't it be a shame for your kids to miss out on one side of who they are?

It may be a good idea to pick a country that is culturally similar to yours, at least in the most significant aspects. i.e. Germany / Austria, Serbia / Croatia. In both cases they're next to each other and they speak the same language.

What if you love the women of a country but you find the culture hard to tolerate? What if you love most things about the country but you don't think much of the women?

The dilemmas go on and on. And if you don't get these things ironed out, it could mean problems down the road. Lord knows I've wrestled with this for a very long time, and I have no answers. I think this is one of those things that comes with a huge cost one way or another, no matter what choices you make. Choose very, very carefully.

[Bienvenuto]

On the not fair on the kids thing -

Where I am in 2nd tier Vietnam there is a couple locally : both from different countries in Latin America - they can't really speak the language. I don't get the impression that their young kids can either but they send their two young girls to the local school and friends houses where everyone and everything is in Vietnamese language.
Sure the kids get to wear braids in their hair and tie dye t shirts at home ad the expats know them to wave at but Im not sure that it's serving them.
My libtard teacher friends think that this is wonderful because "globalization" and "one world" but for me I just think that there was so much unspoken folklore and tradition that was in the background during my materialistic nihilistic 1980s home country upbringing that I feel these kids are being deprived.
Of course I got in the lift with the father once mid morning and the air reeked of booze. They are two alcoholics with children sharing the a codependent relationship and the other expats won't say shit because Alot of them score their drugs off them.

[This Is Trouble]

If there is one thing I have learned from thinking about this a bit more, is that sometimes making choices comes with downsides no matter what you do.

As a single man, it is very easy to deftly out-manuever everything to keep your life as convenient as possible. You love a place like Ukraine, but don’t care for the cold? No big deal, you hop on a plane to Thailand, maybe fly your favorite girl over for a few weeks, and head back to Ukraine in March when it’s warming up.

As a single man, nearly every time you’ve got a gun pointed at your head you’ve got a way out. Having a girl limits your moves - sometimes you have to take the bullet in the knee...

[RoadTo100]

A successful model I’ve seen:

- Live in your wifes country and raise kids to ~12-14. Ensure they can speak english with as little an accent as possible.

- Move to the USA for their high school, apply to USA colleges. Once all kids are in college, you and your wife can move back to her country

This creates truly bicultural kids, comfortable both in the west and their mother’s country. They can get a high paying job in the west or leverage their unique background to do business between the two countries.

And for you and your wife, life is inexpensive for ~14 of 20 child rearing years, with the ~6 in the USA when everyone is older (less chance of your wife straying) and with the knowledge that you’ll be moving back (your wife knows she will have her social circle + family support back soon, and the purpose for her sacrifice is to give your kids the best chance at success).

The above is my personal plan currently.

[CleanSlate]

(08-18-2018 06:32 AM)RoadTo100 Wrote:  

A successful model I’ve seen:

- Live in your wifes country and raise kids to ~12-14. Ensure they can speak english with as little an accent as possible.

- Move to the USA for their high school, apply to USA colleges. Once all kids are in college, you and your wife can move back to her country

This creates truly bicultural kids, comfortable both in the west and their mother’s country. They can get a high paying job in the west or leverage their unique background to do business between the two countries.

And for you and your wife, life is inexpensive for ~14 of 20 child rearing years, with the ~6 in the USA when everyone is older (less chance of your wife straying) and with the knowledge that you’ll be moving back (your wife knows she will have her social circle + family support back soon, and the purpose for her sacrifice is to give your kids the best chance at success).

The above is my personal plan currently.

We may have a winner here. You said you’ve seen this model succeed before — can you give us more specific examples of how they made it work?

The only thing that concerns me is the cost of higher education once the kids graduate. Did they qualify for financial aid? If the parents spent all these years abroad, it’s doubtful that they’ve built up enough savings to pay for the entire 4 years of college.

[Cr33pin]

(08-18-2018 01:47 AM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  

If there is one thing I have learned from thinking about this a bit more, is that sometimes making choices comes with downsides no matter what you do.

As a single man, it is very easy to deftly out-manuever everything to keep your life as convenient as possible. You love a place like Ukraine, but don’t care for the cold? No big deal, you hop on a plane to Thailand, maybe fly your favorite girl over for a few weeks, and head back to Ukraine in March when it’s warming up.

As a single man, nearly every time you’ve got a gun pointed at your head you’ve got a way out. Having a girl limits your moves - sometimes you have to take the bullet in the knee...

OR a arrow....

I used to be a adventurer like you, but then I took a arrow in the knee...

[Bikal]

(08-18-2018 06:32 AM)RoadTo100 Wrote:  

A successful model I’ve seen:

- Live in your wifes country and raise kids to ~12-14. Ensure they can speak english with as little an accent as possible.

- Move to the USA for their high school, apply to USA colleges. Once all kids are in college, you and your wife can move back to her country

This creates truly bicultural kids, comfortable both in the west and their mother’s country. They can get a high paying job in the west or leverage their unique background to do business between the two countries.

And for you and your wife, life is inexpensive for ~14 of 20 child rearing years, with the ~6 in the USA when everyone is older (less chance of your wife straying) and with the knowledge that you’ll be moving back (your wife knows she will have her social circle + family support back soon, and the purpose for her sacrifice is to give your kids the best chance at success).

The above is my personal plan currently.

This is bloody perfect, especially for a Brit as then one would qualify for government funded higher education if you return by 14-15, so presuming the education has been done right in the wife's home country, it should be a piece of cake to ensure successful A-Levels for entry to a top 10 university in the UK.

I know my plan now!

[8ball]

(08-18-2018 06:32 AM)RoadTo100 Wrote:  

A successful model I’ve seen:

- Live in your wifes country and raise kids to ~12-14. Ensure they can speak english with as little an accent as possible.

- Move to the USA for their high school, apply to USA colleges. Once all kids are in college, you and your wife can move back to her country

This creates truly bicultural kids, comfortable both in the west and their mother’s country. They can get a high paying job in the west or leverage their unique background to do business between the two countries.

And for you and your wife, life is inexpensive for ~14 of 20 child rearing years, with the ~6 in the USA when everyone is older (less chance of your wife straying) and with the knowledge that you’ll be moving back (your wife knows she will have her social circle + family support back soon, and the purpose for her sacrifice is to give your kids the best chance at success).

The above is my personal plan currently.

This is pretty much my plan, make sure they go to english immersion school or whatever the equivalent in that country is, The accent will be very problematic when they get back so raising them truly bilingual is very important.
Another thing is, leave your money in a US bank and don't touch any funds, let them accumulate while at the same time start the college funds early. Only take some money out and transfer to your wife's 3rd world country if absolutely necessary.

[This Is Trouble]

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t get the worry about accents.

I know lots of guys here in Central EE with kids. The kids all speak English with flawless American or British accents...

(Most of the guys do NOT speak the local language so they speak almost exclusively English at home.)

[Cam Newton]

(08-18-2018 11:38 PM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t get the worry about accents.

I know lots of guys here in Central EE with kids. The kids all speak English with flawless American or British accents...

(Most of the guys do NOT speak the local language so they speak almost exclusively English at home.)

Kids will get the accent of their peers. However that’s only if they are speaking English with their non-English friends in order for the accent to rub off on them. If your kids only English exposure is from you, then they will get your accent.

To me, that’s a pretty big deal. I’d want my kids to have my home accent. I know it’s sounds a bit irrational though.

[This Is Trouble]

(08-19-2018 01:51 AM)Cam Newton Wrote:  

(08-18-2018 11:38 PM)This Is Trouble Wrote:  

Maybe it’s just me but I don’t get the worry about accents.

I know lots of guys here in Central EE with kids. The kids all speak English with flawless American or British accents...

(Most of the guys do NOT speak the local language so they speak almost exclusively English at home.)

Kids will get the accent of their peers. However that’s only if they are speaking English with their non-English friends in order for the accent to rub off on them. If your kids only English exposure is from you, then they will get your accent.

To me, that’s a pretty big deal. I’d want my kids to have my home accent. I know it’s sounds a bit irrational though.

Not irrational at all. It's totally natural (especially for a man) to want his kids to look like him. This is just a slightly deeper level of the same thing, I feel the same way.

I don't want any potential son to sound like a Sergey.

Would probably prefer a daughter sound like an Anastasia though if the alternative is an American valley girl accent...