[lavidaloca]

(07-23-2018 09:35 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

It looks like this guy was a muslim but also a typical Toronto-Occupied-Ontario Incel.

My question is:

What's this guys ethnic/racial background? So he had a history of mental illness. Did his family tree have a history of first cousin marriage? The two have a high correlation.

No, not all muslims inbreed, but IIRC somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 do and it seems to not be equally spread across the muslim world, but I can only get that from anecdotal information.

He was Pakistani from what I read.

[beta_plus]

(07-23-2018 10:28 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 09:35 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

It looks like this guy was a muslim but also a typical Toronto-Occupied-Ontario Incel.

My question is:

What's this guys ethnic/racial background? So he had a history of mental illness. Did his family tree have a history of first cousin marriage? The two have a high correlation.

No, not all muslims inbreed, but IIRC somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 do and it seems to not be equally spread across the muslim world, but I can only get that from anecdotal information.

He was Pakistani from what I read.

Assuming that turns out to be the case, that's not good. They are some of the worst of the worst.

My dad worked with international diplomats in the DC area and had to deal with Pakistani envoys married to their first cousins.

Maybe Pakistan doesn't send their best to DC's diplomatic corps, but I doubt it.

[Thot Leader]

(07-23-2018 11:31 AM)Thot Leader Wrote:  

I just posted this elsewhere, seems relevant here

lol:

[Nemausus]

Here's some of the information that's trickled out in the last hours.

Quote:

The gunman was zig-zagging from one side of the street to the other, one witness told Global News.

Quote:

Other witnesses said the man had his shirt sleeves rolled up, had walked back and forth across Danforth, shooting indiscriminately, assuming a shooter’s stance, as if he knew how to handle a firearm.

Quote:

An 18-year-old recent high school graduate and a 10-year-old girl were killed... Seven of the injured victims are male and six are female. Their ages range from 17 to 59.

According to this video, he was from a well-known (among locals) Muslim family that traces its origins back to Pakistan.

We'll find out in the coming days, but given what's reported in the video above (prominent Muslim family and a history of mental illness) I tend to believe it's more likely that he was somehow radicalized, rather than a raging incel.

[lavidaloca]

Theres a picture of where he lived in this news article.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/f...-1.4758969

He lived with his parents and brother in an apartment. Looks like an old shitty apartment building though I don't know the first thing about the area. (Thorncliffe Park)

[jordypip23]

(07-23-2018 02:33 PM)scotian Wrote:  

I’m still going to Caribana in two weeks, I ain’t scurrred!

Fortunately sexy chocolate women typically aren't targets of hardline Islamic types / incels. Although some may have unfortunately been mowed down among the mixed crowd in the Orlando, FL massacre a few years ago.

I'm sure you'll have a blast at Caribana. I envision some fine Rihanna / Nicki Minaj looking chicas gettin down out there!

[Days of Broken Arrows]

Great comments on this thread. Someone mentioned that shootings have become more commonplace. That has less to do with people being different today and more to do with the way we handle the mentally ill. Here is a list of the ways things changed.

1). In the '70s, Geraldo Rivera did a big expose on the mistreatment of mental patients in state hospitals and the like. As a result, more and more doctors and family members refused to commit people who should have been locked up.

2). In the early 1980s, Ronald Reagan signed off on a bill that "de-institutionalized" mental patients. This was another blow against the idea that crazy people should be behind locked doors.

3). Women invaded the psychology field. Women love word salad. Women love saying a lot and doing nothing. Women love using words to obscure points, not make them. If you've ever read the resume of anyone involved in counseling, you know its so filled with jargon it's almost unreadable. All of this jargon is there for a reason. It's to hide this simple fact: "He's crazy! Lock him up!"

4). The psychology field became drug-oriented. Everyone in this field think meds are a cure-all. But drugs all have side effects. When you play with drugs and the human mind, disaster often happens. Most of these killers are on some drug or another.

Put all these things together, and that's why you now have maniacs of all stripes running around shooting people. When our parents were growing up, these people still existed. They just existed in padded cells or locked rooms. Now thanks to "progress," we're all in danger.

[Suits]

I'd really like to make this about Islam, but I think this is a mental health case.

[HornyRamone]

(07-24-2018 05:04 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I'd really like to make this about Islam, but I think this is a mental health case.

The two are related. Any mental illness and symptoms he had were exasperated with diversity and an aggressive culture that doesn't fit in with mild Canadians. Would he have blown up like this in a 100% traditional Islamic environment where he would have married a first cousin and perhaps had a goat mistress on the side amongst his own people? I doubt it.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(07-24-2018 05:13 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:04 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I'd really like to make this about Islam, but I think this is a mental health case.

The two are related. Any mental illness and symptoms he had were exasperated with diversity and an aggressive culture that doesn't fit in with mild Canadians. Would he have blown up like this in a 100% traditional Islamic environment where he would have married a first cousin and perhaps had a goat mistress on the side amongst his own people? I doubt it.

You could also make a good argument that religious fanaticism and mental illness are a two-in-one package.

This is most obvious in Muslim culture. But I also see some of it in Catholic culture, where girls go into missionary work and wind up dead because of unsanitary conditions and/or violence. The families are react with zombie-like bliss because their daughter is "in a better place." IMO all involved have something wrong with them (including the clergy who encourage this stuff).

[HornyRamone]

(07-24-2018 06:06 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:13 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:04 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I'd really like to make this about Islam, but I think this is a mental health case.

The two are related. Any mental illness and symptoms he had were exasperated with diversity and an aggressive culture that doesn't fit in with mild Canadians. Would he have blown up like this in a 100% traditional Islamic environment where he would have married a first cousin and perhaps had a goat mistress on the side amongst his own people? I doubt it.

You could also make a good argument that religious fanaticism and mental illness are a two-in-one package.

This is most obvious in Muslim culture. But I also see some of it in Catholic culture, where girls go into missionary work and wind up dead because of unsanitary conditions and/or violence. The families are react with zombie-like bliss because their daughter is "in a better place." IMO all involved have something wrong with them (including the clergy who encourage this stuff).

Fools saving the world is a religious fanaticism alright, but it isn't Christianity. It's the Hell on earth religion of Equality. Christianity, as Nietzsche noted, got sucked into the Equality Cult and thoroughly cucked itself. The parents of dead fools believe in an afterlife, which isn't fanaticism, but is a staple of most cultures and people present, past and future.

[HornyRamone]

(07-24-2018 07:13 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 06:06 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:13 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:04 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I'd really like to make this about Islam, but I think this is a mental health case.

The two are related. Any mental illness and symptoms he had were exasperated with diversity and an aggressive culture that doesn't fit in with mild Canadians. Would he have blown up like this in a 100% traditional Islamic environment where he would have married a first cousin and perhaps had a goat mistress on the side amongst his own people? I doubt it.

You could also make a good argument that religious fanaticism and mental illness are a two-in-one package.

This is most obvious in Muslim culture. But I also see some of it in Catholic culture, where girls go into missionary work and wind up dead because of unsanitary conditions and/or violence. The families are react with zombie-like bliss because their daughter is "in a better place." IMO all involved have something wrong with them (including the clergy who encourage this stuff).

Fools saving the world is a religious fanaticism alright, but it isn't Christianity. It's the Hell on earth religion of Equality. Christianity, as Nietzsche noted, got sucked into the Equality Cult and thoroughly cucked itself. The parents of dead fools believe in an afterlife, which isn't fanaticism, but a staple of most cultures and people past, present and future.

[questor70]

(07-24-2018 03:50 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

When our parents were growing up, these people still existed. They just existed in padded cells or locked rooms. Now thanks to "progress," we're all in danger.

Well said. Unfortunately, the culture that is biased against institutionalizing the mentally ill is so ingrained now that it will never change no matter how many mass-shootings.

[Paracelsus]

(07-24-2018 03:50 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Great comments on this thread. Someone mentioned that shootings have become more commonplace. That has less to do with people being different today and more to do with the way we handle the mentally ill. Here is a list of the ways things changed.

1). In the '70s, Geraldo Rivera did a big expose on the mistreatment of mental patients in state hospitals and the like. As a result, more and more doctors and family members refused to commit people who should have been locked up.

2). In the early 1980s, Ronald Reagan signed off on a bill that "de-institutionalized" mental patients. This was another blow against the idea that crazy people should be behind locked doors.

3). Women invaded the psychology field. Women love word salad. Women love saying a lot and doing nothing. Women love using words to obscure points, not make them. If you've ever read the resume of anyone involved in counseling, you know its so filled with jargon it's almost unreadable. All of this jargon is there for a reason. It's to hide this simple fact: "He's crazy! Lock him up!"

4). The psychology field became drug-oriented. Everyone in this field think meds are a cure-all. But drugs all have side effects. When you play with drugs and the human mind, disaster often happens. Most of these killers are on some drug or another.

Put all these things together, and that's why you now have maniacs of all stripes running around shooting people. When our parents were growing up, these people still existed. They just existed in padded cells or locked rooms. Now thanks to "progress," we're all in danger.

Add one or two other things to this stellar analysis:

Governments of all stripes love the fact all these three-aces-short-of-a-full-deck people are out in the streets and morons are wailing over "inadequate mental health resources in the community".

The main reason being that, while everyone beats their breast over the fact there's not enough money in the West to keep schizophrenics from shooting people, they don't realise the government determines the argument to be had in the public space. Simply put, while you're asking how much money should be thrown at keeping mentally ill people tranked down in their own homes and possibly dangerous, you're not asking why they are out on the streets at all.

Isn't it fascinating that Western governments have basically voted in the closest thing to a security state since Russia under Stalin, and that largely unopposed - but when it comes to a Moderate Proposal that you warehouse the mentally ill in hospitals rather than prisons as is now customary, every dumb fucker loses their minds?

The answer is simple. When you get down to it, security state apparatus doesn't actually cost that much more money to a government. A few more people, more cameras, yes, but for the most part, since it's mostly digitised snooping via Facebook rather than human intelligence agents, it's reasonably cheap and it gets the government further into your life.

By contrast, reopening mental asylums would cause massive budgetary blowouts and standing lawsuit risks that no government in its right mind will ever allow back in. You would basically be opening hundreds of new hospitals across the West, and look at the fucking cash that is blown on that each year, chiefly via doctors' salaries.

It was not only Reagan who did this. State governments, i.e. those who usually ran the mental asylums, couldn't throw the mentally ill out of the hospitals fast enough - it meant they could close them up and assign them to shitbag halfway houses which didn't require standing teams of doctors and/or nurses. They shifted the bill from the States to the Federal government. Understand, the move to put idiots back on the steet was underway from the 1950s, this shit did not happen overnight and it wasn't one President who caused all this. The US Supreme Court also helped out with the 1975 decision in O'Connor v. Donaldson, which held that a State cannot incarcerate a person against their will when they're not being violent and when they're capable of surviving for themselves. This single decision, and the philosophy that arises out of it, is one of the main reasons drug addicts cannot get the help their families scream for - involuntary incarceration, that is, which most ice addicts will never agree to and which is about the only tool families or police have to stop morons from killing each other or innocent bystanders.

It helped governments hugely that this was done, because it put the fruitloops back in the community and effectively made them disappear - mainly because the media couldn't show sinister pictures of creaky old mental asylum facilities anymore and the families of disabled and/or mentally ill people do not make up a constituency that's ever going to imperil a government.

However, the flip side of this are idiot disability activist movements. These arseholes are, by and large, a cancer on the public health system and directly enable this shit, because by demanding that you treat a disabled person basically the same way as you treat someone who's sane and can get along on his own, you make it more or less impossible to take that person out of the system when it's needed, and you let the government shrug its shoulders and not do anything to fix the problem. In Australia there was a recent 60 Minutes program which showed, for one, the unflinching suffering that is laid on a family that has to care for a kid with profound autism. This shit is not pleasant little Rain Man antics or connecting dots on the chans, we are talking someone who is basically uncommunicative, with a violent temper and with an adult's strength and speed, which frequently, daily, was exercised against his family. He was one of a family of three and the other young brothers and sisters had been beaten up by this guy. This was a very important image of mental disability and illness to get out there, to show that for carers of the disabled/mentally ill, it is a living prison sentence in many cases.

What did the morons in these advocacy organisations say? They fucking went and criticised the show for "promoting bad stereotypes." I was livid, for personal reasons I won't get into. Autism has had so much lovebombing from the media it's become a joke; fucking aspies are all Sheldon Cooper or The Good Doctor now, if there's any stereotype of the heavily autistic, it's a positive one, such that it disguises how bad this shit can get. This guy was about as compelling a case as you can get for involuntary hospitalisation or putting his care in the hands of the State, at least partially.

And yet in Australia, the bullshit rolls on: unless you are a potentially embarrassing case to Disability Services, you generally don't get funding, and any funding you do get is massively insufficient. And the government plays on the fact that disabled peoples' families have strong bonds and generally don't leave them in the lurch. I have seen cases where an aged mother of a profoundly autistic adult kid got no help or funding from disability services right until she finally, and literally, said "Fuck you. I have a passport, and I'm getting on a plane and leaving the country. Right now. You bastards will not help out unless there's an emergency, guess what, you got one." Only then did the lizards start scrambling and money was coughed up. That's how bad it gets in "deinstitutionalised" mental health care in the West.

The error was in dumb public advocacy groups saying "We can do this better" to the government rather than demanding that the government do it better. Because they gave government all the excuses it needed to wash its hands of the mentally ill. This is one area where the fucking government should be throwing money away on something that has little value. It will sound cold, but the lives of functional people are more valuable to the community than ones who aren't. And locking screwballs up in prisons is not solving the problem; if anything there will eventually be some case where some IQ 90 retard lawyers up and sues a State successfully that the imposition of a jail sentence exacerbated his mental condition, and when that happens, oh, the lions, the tigers.

[911]

(07-24-2018 06:06 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:13 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:04 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I'd really like to make this about Islam, but I think this is a mental health case.

The two are related. Any mental illness and symptoms he had were exasperated with diversity and an aggressive culture that doesn't fit in with mild Canadians. Would he have blown up like this in a 100% traditional Islamic environment where he would have married a first cousin and perhaps had a goat mistress on the side amongst his own people? I doubt it.

You could also make a good argument that religious fanaticism and mental illness are a two-in-one package.

This is most obvious in Muslim culture. But I also see some of it in Catholic culture, where girls go into missionary work and wind up dead because of unsanitary conditions and/or violence. The families are react with zombie-like bliss because their daughter is "in a better place." IMO all involved have something wrong with them (including the clergy who encourage this stuff).

Do you have any stats on girls dying doing Catholic missionary work? You make it sound like they're going on space missions. I would guess they're safer there than going to college in some urban settings in the US.

[Thot Leader]

Yuge if real:

[Mage]

(07-24-2018 05:04 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I'd really like to make this about Islam, but I think this is a mental health case.

Every person who joins Islam on his free will is a mental health case.

In case of already born Muslims - every one of them that radicalizes and chooses to fallow the jihad path is either a preacher well paid to do so or a mental health case.

This is is a religion that spreads either trough force or trough mentally unstable individuals. Period.

[Johnnyvee]

(07-23-2018 06:17 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

It's not only being deprived of sex.

It's being deprived of clean air, natural living, a warm embrace by family, a purpose in life, communal living, good friends, a friendly platonic smile or word from a pretty girl, feeling pride and accomplishment in seeing your younger nieces and nephews grow up.

It's the totality of isolation from everything that makes a natural fulfilling life.

It's true what DOBA says about mental illness. It is horrible to witness, but it does not appear completely without cause in most cases:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012...izophrenia

Quote:

Children who experience severe forms of abuse are around three times as likely to develop schizophrenia and related psychoses in later life compared with children who do not experience such abuse, according to a study that has brought together psychiatric data from almost 80,000 people.

The results add to a growing body of evidence that childhood maltreatment or abuse can raise the risk of developing mental illnesses in adulthood, including depression, personality disorders and anxiety.

Quote:

"People who had severe and multiple traumas in their lives, in some of their studies they'd go up to an odds ratio of 50 times greater risk of psychosis [in later life]," said Bentall. "There is nothing in genetics which looks as strong as this in terms of effects and it's consistent across the different studies, so it's a highly robust effect."

People don't just go nuts over some chemical maladjustment in their brain.

Abuse: emotional, physical, sexual, causes mental illness.

This modern invention of the "biological explanation" of mental illness unfortunately coincides perfectly with the boomer generation failing to provide support and safety for their children.

We can pretend mental illness is just "some medical imbalance" or we can recognize the neglect, mistreatment and abuse behind a lot of it.

It's definitely much easier for a doctor to just prescribe meds than ask the parents "were you good parents to your child" or to ask schools if they stopped vicious bullying or to tell vain and superficial teenagers to wear school uniforms and say a prayer every day.

"People don't just go nuts over some chemical maladjustment in their brain."

With all due respects I think you reverse the causation. It is indeed the chemical neuroendocrine imbalance (+things like autoimmunity) that cause the brain disease issues in the first place. As a consequence of those things, which are mostly dietary in nature, other bad things follow. Minassian is a good example. He was first damaged by diet (and maybe later on drugs) then his life started falling apart. That is the case for most people in psychiatry. Their life falls apart as a downstream effect of the dietary triggered disorder. (The have certain genes yes, but those genes would not cause pathology without the dietary input.)

[Mage]

^ nobody becomes a murderer because he ate too much burgers instead of oatmeal.

On topic of whether people go crazy primarily due to chemical, genetic or social reasons:

Even if we assume that people go crazy due to genetic and chemical malfunctions - the expression - of that craziness is going to be socially formed.

There was a time when going crazy was associated with people declaring that they are Napoleon. Now it is about these people committing mass shootings. The expression of the instability is social.

I personally believe that also the cause is more often social and comes from nurturing then it is chemical and coming from nature. There is a lot of stuff that is known only in narrow circles of neuroscientists and people interested in this topic about how brain forms in womb, how mothers moods affect it, how children develop differently based on how often they are picked up, talked to and how much they are loved. The mainstream ignores all this information because to them an unborn person is a fetus and abortion is the sacrament of modern globo-satanism. Even those children that are not aborted are brought up in a damaging way in a godless society. Even the common "normal" adult is actually a dysfunctional and wounded individual if we apply serious standards.

[Days of Broken Arrows]

(07-24-2018 10:53 AM)911 Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 06:06 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:13 AM)HornyRamone Wrote:  

(07-24-2018 05:04 AM)Suits Wrote:  

I'd really like to make this about Islam, but I think this is a mental health case.

The two are related. Any mental illness and symptoms he had were exasperated with diversity and an aggressive culture that doesn't fit in with mild Canadians. Would he have blown up like this in a 100% traditional Islamic environment where he would have married a first cousin and perhaps had a goat mistress on the side amongst his own people? I doubt it.

You could also make a good argument that religious fanaticism and mental illness are a two-in-one package.

This is most obvious in Muslim culture. But I also see some of it in Catholic culture, where girls go into missionary work and wind up dead because of unsanitary conditions and/or violence. The families are react with zombie-like bliss because their daughter is "in a better place." IMO all involved have something wrong with them (including the clergy who encourage this stuff).

Do you have any stats on girls dying doing Catholic missionary work? You make it sound like they're going on space missions. I would guess they're safer there than going to college in some urban settings in the US.

No. I just have anecdotal stories from my parents' Catholic parish. One girl died, another had to be shipped back with malaria, another was assaulted.

Also, I really hate bring up racial stuff, but many of the other girls came back "changed" and married far outside their race and/or adopted outside their race. While there is nothing wrong with this per se, when you see it again and again it starts to seem like an indoctrination program.

Anyway, I question suburban parents who sign off on sending their nubile teenage daughters to harsh Third World countries. It almost seems like it's a deliberate way to take them off the market.

Let's put it another way. If one of us posted a picture of our beautiful, blonde 18-year-old daughter with a message that we were sending her into the Congo to live in dirt poverty for a year, what do you think the response would be? The cliched "Backpacking across Europe" looks good by comparison.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(07-23-2018 06:17 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

It's not only being deprived of sex.

It's being deprived of clean air, natural living, a warm embrace by family, a purpose in life, communal living, good friends, a friendly platonic smile or word from a pretty girl, feeling pride and accomplishment in seeing your younger nieces and nephews grow up.

It's the totality of isolation from everything that makes a natural fulfilling life.

It's true what DOBA says about mental illness. It is horrible to witness, but it does not appear completely without cause in most cases:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2012...izophrenia

Quote:

Children who experience severe forms of abuse are around three times as likely to develop schizophrenia and related psychoses in later life compared with children who do not experience such abuse, according to a study that has brought together psychiatric data from almost 80,000 people.

The results add to a growing body of evidence that childhood maltreatment or abuse can raise the risk of developing mental illnesses in adulthood, including depression, personality disorders and anxiety.

Quote:

"People who had severe and multiple traumas in their lives, in some of their studies they'd go up to an odds ratio of 50 times greater risk of psychosis [in later life]," said Bentall. "There is nothing in genetics which looks as strong as this in terms of effects and it's consistent across the different studies, so it's a highly robust effect."

People don't just go nuts over some chemical maladjustment in their brain.

Abuse: emotional, physical, sexual, causes mental illness.

This modern invention of the "biological explanation" of mental illness unfortunately coincides perfectly with the boomer generation failing to provide support and safety for their children.

We can pretend mental illness is just "some medical imbalance" or we can recognize the neglect, mistreatment and abuse behind a lot of it.

It's definitely much easier for a doctor to just prescribe meds than ask the parents "were you good parents to your child" or to ask schools if they stopped vicious bullying or to tell vain and superficial teenagers to wear school uniforms and say a prayer every day.

delete

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(07-23-2018 06:16 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 05:43 PM)Feldeinsamkeit Wrote:  

(07-23-2018 05:10 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

A quote from the family (emphasis mine):

"While we did our best to seek help for him throughout his life of struggle and pain, we could never imagine that this would be his devastating and destructive end."

How it plays out on the forum and the manosphere:

1). A mentally ill man has no friends or girlfriends because he's mentally ill.

2). Because of this, he doesn't get to have sex.*

3). Everyone here focuses on #2 but ignores #1, which caused #2 to begin with.

I urge everyone here to volunteer at a residential facility or rehab place with mentally ill men. You'll see guys who look relatively normal, but once you get them talking it's clear they're completely out to lunch. They can often scare people away with one sentence.

Since women will dismiss guys over the wrong pair of shoes, you can damn well bet they'll run screaming when a man starts rambling about how he just spoke to George Washington.

Attempting to micro-define the mentally ill as mere "incels" puts the cart before the horse. It does a disservice to everyone involved, misses the point, and plays into the hands of feminists who think "all men are like this underneath!" and get the masses to believe this.

But as I said before, if mere sexual frustration led to killings, 90 percent of male high school sophomores would be mass shooters. If not having sex creates problems, why don't priests and monks go on shooting sprees? Why don't men in wheelchairs plant bombs everywhere?

There's more to this, people. Let's recognize that.

* Even this is a leap. A lot of mentally troubled men go to prostitutes or have sex with homeless women when they hit the streets. This is a lower rung of the social ladder most of us don't see. It's not pleasant. But it's there. I know someone who worked with people like this who joked they had more sex than "normal" people.

But a guy doesn't just become mentally ill in a vacuum, does he? Being confined to a permadrought, sexually-speaking, wreaks havoc on a guy's self-esteem and general state of well-being and, although not primarily the cause in some cases, acts nevertheless like an potent accelerant on a fire. Maybe you're putting the cart before the horse in pushing the rather vague notion of "mental illness" as a sui generis explanation for incel spree shootings, instead of accepting the elephant in the room: that the more young, horny guys there are who are locked out of the sexual market place, the more likely it is that an albeit tiny fraction of them will decide to externalize their frustration by hitting up a public location full of women. By arguing, "Why doesn't every incel Tom, Dick and Harry go on a shooting spree when their dry spell becomes too much to handle ... ?", as a way to look at this phenomenon, misses the point. The response should be the same as regards the recent Islamic invaders of the West: Not every one of them is going take out a bunch of shoppers at the Christmas Market, but every additional migrant duly increases the chances that this will happen. The same logic applies to incels: Not every incel shoots up the local mall, it is true, but every guy who shoots up the mall these days seems to be an incel. That such shootings are becoming increasingly frequent is thus largely a function of the numbers of sexually disenfranchised men shut out of the market having increased significantly in recent years.

Did you read my post?

His family commented on his "life of struggles and pain." That implies that from the get-go he had issues.

A LIFE of struggles means just that. It doesn't mean: "He was popular in high school, but once he hit his twenties and his girlfriend left him and he became an incel and went nuts!!"

I think at this point the manosphere is as guilty as feminism for producing a narrative that's being utilized to explain too many things. They have "patriarchy;" we have "incels." Among other things. They're nice theories. But that's all they are.

One more thing: You mention "the rather vague notion of "mental illness." This is a misnomer.

Mental illness is not vague. Just as you can see lung cancer on an MRI, you can see the haywire brain patterns of schizophrenics (and other mentally ill) patients on a device called an fMRI.

fMRI stands for "Functional magnetic resonance imaging." It shows how the brain responds to stimuli in real time. Schizophrenics and bipolar people have wildly different brain patterns than the average person. So do clinically depressed people. (Here is one of many links to studies on this.)

This is actual scientific proof that mental illness is an out-and-out disease, not some quack psychologist's diagnosis.

I will grant you there is some grey area --- like when it comes to ADHD and other trendy, subjective diagnoses. But that's not what we're talking about here.

If people in the manosphere are now going to dismiss actual hard science about mental illness in favor of made-up "theories," it's time we all call it a day. It's over, folks. We've now officially become the feminists we hate.

Am I the only one who studies up on this stuff?

I don't think I expressed myself as effectively as I could have in my post commenting on yours. I won't for one moment deny that mental illness, as such, isn't a scientifically well-founded concept. My point was regarding the use of the label "mental illness" as an explanatory model being a vague tool that obscures, rather than clarifies, the problem before us in many, although not all cases of incel guys who flip out and commit atrocious acts in public against random people: that what drove many of them nuts in the first place - permanently not getting laid with the attendant mental and physical stressors this creates in the vast majority of men - is the real story as the causative agent here.

Of course, you'd be right to object that the causation may also run in the opposite direction, too; namely, that - on average and depending on his exact condition and symptoms - a guy with mental issues is probably going to find it harder to get laid than his non-crazy peers. But, even this needn't be so. I once knew a guy at university who believed he was John the Baptist and was fairly vocal about it to everybody who came into contact with him, but because he was tall, well-built and somewhat charismatic, he still did better with the ladies than the average - and totally sane - male student there.

[asdfk]

I'm shocked by some of the opinions here on mental health issues.

Quote:

On topic of whether people go crazy primarily due to chemical, genetic or social reasons

Bad news. Anybody who is exposed to severe stress for too long can go crazy.

I know several people in my personal life. I've spoken extensively with professionals about this. One named the CEO of a big multinational who is now in a mental institution.

If they get institutionalized, you better hope they come back within 3-4 weeks. If they do not return to normal the chances increase it's permanent. This CEO did not stabilize and is still in there.

Troubling life events can do someone in, like the death of a family member. But it can also be prolonged stress.

If you think psychiatric patients are worthless and deserve no sympathy, know that the odds are high some of the very people in this thread will face a psychiatric crisis at some point in their lives. You do not have as much control over your own mind as you might think.

Try to limit your stress levels and hope, hope, that you are lucky. The numbers of people who at some point have an episode like this are shocking.

Yes, there are people with dangerous personality types out there or psychiatric disorders that cannot be fixed. But do not think for a minute that a "normal" person is immune and will never develop a psychiatric condition, be it a temporary one.

In the US many homeless people are obviously crazy. I'm not saying the state has an obligation or responsibility towards those people. This is not a political standpoint.

[Thot Leader]

[Thomas Jackson]

Pakis are some of the most inbred in the entire world. Inbreeding increases the rates of all sorts of issues, including mental illness so the islam/mental illness issues are definitely linked (though its mostly a arab/paki/afghan issue persians/malays/indonesians dont do this nearly as much).