[Samseau]

Okay! I'm excited to ask for help because I'm learning something new about the game.

A similar situation has happened to me before, but I ended up just dumping the girl instead of trying to figure out how to deal with it. This time, I'm gonna try to experiment and see if I can deal with it.

Timeline:

- Met a girl two Saturday's ago. Sept 10th. Made out with her but couldn't close. Got her number.

- Called her up the following Monday, setup a date for Wednesday night.

- Took her out Wednesday, brought her home and fucked her in her room.

- Called her up the following Monday (Sept 19th), setup another date for tomorrow (Wed Sept 21st.)

- Just got a call 20 min ago from her.

Here's the call:

phone call Wrote:

"Um, I'm just calling to let you know that things just happened last time we were together and I didn't want it to go that far."

Me: "Um... okay..?"

"I mean, I really like you but I didn't want it to go that far, if you know what I mean."

Me: "I'm not sure I know what you mean."

"Well, if we hang out again tomorrow I don't want to feel any pressure."

Me: "Well, we'll just meet up and play it by ear."

"Okay"

Me: "I'll see you tomorrow at xxx"

"Okay, I didn't want to make this weird or anything. Just wanted to let you know."

Me: "Alright. See ya"

What the fuck is this call all about? Here's what I figure.

She's experienced buyer's remorse since I've last seen her and wants to regain her power in the relationship, even though she's already had sex with me.


At first, I thought about just canceling the date. That would be easiest. But, on the other hand, I'd like to see where this goes and see if I can learn anything.

So, for tomorrow's date, I'm obviously going to go for the bang. I don't know what the fuck she's babbling about, but obviously she's really insecure and wants to try and regain some hand.

How can I amend this situation so she's back to being comfortable with me and willing to bang?

Should I reassure her she's "someone I like too" and "not easy at all"? Should I not make a move for tomorrow's date (note: that will never happen unless someone in this forum gives me some very compelling reasons)?

Comments, suggestions, and inputs greatly appreciated.

[MikeCF]

Not to make you panic, but you need to run Anti-False Rape Game. This is serious.

Take her out. Make sure you're in public where there are cameras, and people catch her smiling.

DO NOT fuck her.

Instead, show her a good-enough time that if she does cry rape for the prior sexual encounter, you'll have a defense.

She could be BPD:

http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2011/08/...ody-cases/

Basically, your only concern should be avoiding a false rape accusation. Again, meet her in public. Show her fun, have her laughing. That way, if she cries rape for the prior incident, you'll have enough evidence to protect you.

You should "e-know" me well enough to know I'm not a little bitch who freaks out over stupid shit. Right now our only goal is keeping you from getting arrested.

I'd also ask Roosh to delete this thread. No sense in having the discussion public, as if she outs you somehow (there is no such thing as anonymity of the Internet), she might find this thread.

[Tuthmosis]

My read on this is that you take you use the old-school "things just happened" trick. This girl's just seeking a little re-assurance that you're not just going to use her as a fuck toy and drop her the instant you're bored with her (though that's probably the case). A little well-framed verbal gymnastics and old-fashioned programming should do the trick.

Clearly, this would have been best said on the phone the last time, but you can kinda start off the date with it and go from there pretty unscathed.

Example:

After a few minutes of shooting the shit.

Samseau: Listen, about your call the other night...

Girl: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make things weird, it's just that...

Samseau: It's fine [implying it was weird]. Don't worry: things just happened last time. Even though this kind of thing doesn't generally happen with me [blatant lie], I feel okay with it. We both just went with the flow.

Girl: I know, but I didn't want to feel pressured...

Samseau: Look, things don't have to be weird. Let's just have a good time and see where things go. I'm a go-with-the-flow kind of guy. Every situation's different. Don't you think?

Girl: Yeah. You're right.

Later, when things are getting hot and heavy, she might try to close Pandora's box and drop some LMR on your-ass nasty. First of all, mitigate that as best as possible by getting her a bit liquored up and relaxed. But also, just do what I do in those cases: physically escalate while verbally de-escalating.

Addendum: Another useful phrase for me is to drop the "we click physically." This is definitely girl-speak that they can understand. It's basically code for: we like to fuck.

Important: this is not to be confused with the "we only click physically" break-up line.

[Samseau]

(09-20-2011 10:39 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Not to make you panic, but you need to run Anti-False Rape Game. This is serious.

Take her out. Make sure you're in public where there are cameras, and people catch her smiling.

DO NOT fuck her.

Instead, show her a good-enough time that if she does cry rape for the prior sexual encounter, you'll have a defense.

She could be BPD:

http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2011/08/...ody-cases/

Basically, your only concern should be avoiding a false rape accusation. Again, meet her in public. Show her fun, have her laughing. That way, if she cries rape for the prior incident, you'll have enough evidence to protect you.

You should "e-know" me well enough to know I'm not a little bitch who freaks out over stupid shit. Right now our only goal is keeping you from getting arrested.

I'd also ask Roosh to delete this thread. No sense in having the discussion public, as if she outs you somehow (there is no such thing as anonymity of the Internet), she might find this thread.

She's beyond crazy if she pulls a false-rape accusation on me after everything I've seen with her. Man, she's such a sweet girl too. We've already been together in two public places, it would be really really hard for her to make a credible claim that I've raped her.

Also, when I banged her, her roommate, a gay man, was in the apartment. So if she was being raped, why didn't that guy do anything?

Regardless I value your advice and you are right to be safe. Tomorrow I'm taking her to a very public venue so there should be no question of what is happening.

And not having sex with her seems like the right idea, if false rape is the case... Jesus H Christ. I know this shit is real, it happened to my uncle back in the 1980's. He lost over $50,000, and to this day cannot get a job because of it.

tuthmosis Wrote:

Clearly, this would have been best said on the phone the last time, but you can kinda start off the date with it and go from there pretty unscathed.

Yeah, I didn't say it on the phone because I hate dealing with drama on the phone. Too difficult to judge her reaction.

Quote:

After a few minutes of shooting the shit.

Samseau: Listen, about your call the other night...

Girl: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make things weird, it's just that...

Samseau: It's fine [implying it was weird]. Don't worry: things just happened last time. Even though this kind of thing doesn't generally happen with me [blatant lie], I feel okay with it. We both just went with the flow.

Girl: I know, but I didn't want to feel pressured...

Samseau: Look, things don't have to be weird. Let's just have a good time and see where things go. I'm a go-with-the-flow kind of guy. Every situation's different. Don't you think?

Girl: Yeah. You're right.

Later, when things are getting hot and heavy, she might try to close Pandora's box and drop some LMR on your-ass nasty. First of all, mitigate that as best as possible by getting her a bit liquored up and relaxed. But also, just do what I do in those cases: physically escalate while verbally de-escalating.

Addendum: Another useful phrase for me is to drop the "we click physically."

Solid advice. Thanks a ton man.

[MikeCF]

(09-20-2011 11:02 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Also, when I banged her, her roommate, a gay man, was in the apartment. So if she was being raped, why didn't that guy do anything?

Been there, defended that:

http://federalism.typepad.com/crime_fede...-case.html

There's a reason I'm vigilant about this stuff. Your girl has WARNING all over her face, and weak false rape cases are prosecuted every day.

[Samseau]

(09-20-2011 11:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-20-2011 11:02 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Also, when I banged her, her roommate, a gay man, was in the apartment. So if she was being raped, why didn't that guy do anything?

Been there, defended that:

http://federalism.typepad.com/crime_fede...-case.html

There's a reason I'm vigilant about this stuff. Your girl has WARNING all over her face, and weak false rape cases are prosecuted every day.

We also didn't drink ANY alcohol. Totally sober sex.

[tenderman100]

My approach would be to take her out, have a good time, go back to her place, escalate, but don't fuck close.

Say, "hey, I really like you, and because I really do...I want to make sure you feel right about this. So, I'll go if you want me to."

She will be conflicted, of course, but it doesn't matter which way it goes. The ball is in her court. You've already fucked her, so she sees you as the fucker and her as the fuckee.

If she doesn't want to this time, then leave, but do so clearly with the idea that if you meet next time, you are going to fuck.

If the first date is a fuck, I typically don't mind if the second date is fuck-free. It cements in the lizard's mind that this guy is not just about sex, although in the end, you really are all about that. This fuck free second date is part of the preparation for the totally sexual relationship.

Then next time, she fucks, or you dump her. Simple as that.

[MikeCF]

(09-20-2011 11:25 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

We also didn't drink ANY alcohol. Totally sober sex.

She can say whatever she wants.

50% of date rape cases are false.

He-said-she-said. Drop $50,000 on bail, lawyers, and a private investigator....and you might walk - even where she's lying.

[oldnemesis]

(09-20-2011 10:39 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Not to make you panic, but you need to run Anti-False Rape Game. This is serious.

I'd expect a different phone dialogue in this case.

[oldnemesis]

(09-21-2011 12:15 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

He-said-she-said. Drop $50,000 on bail, lawyers, and a private investigator....and you might walk - even where she's lying.

Mike, could you tell me why those chicks aren't being routinely sued in those cases? This is America when people routinely sue each other for a $40 dispute. Why there was no libel civil lawsuit, not to mention criminal charges?

[MikeCF]

FYI, good article on date rape:

http://reason.com/assets/db/13146418863282.pdf

[MikeCF]

(09-21-2011 12:25 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(09-21-2011 12:15 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

He-said-she-said. Drop $50,000 on bail, lawyers, and a private investigator....and you might walk - even where she's lying.

Mike, could you tell me why those chicks aren't being routinely sued in those cases? This is America when people routinely sue each other for a $40 dispute. Why there was no libel civil lawsuit, not to mention criminal charges?

If you're falsely charged, would you want to sue? Keep in mind people think the criminal system allows the guilty to "get off on technicalities."

Would you want any employer who Googles your name to learn you were accused of rape?

One kid sued, after his life was ruined. He had nothing, so he had nothing to lose:

http://www.crimeandfederalism.com/2010/0...-rape.html

Also, weak cases are often dismissed under deferred adjudication. That means the case against you will be dismissed after you make an apology/kiss your false accuser's ass. You have to agree not to sue.

Or you can say what every keyboard warrior does: I'd never cop a plea to a crime I didn't commit!

If you are a young man falsely accused of rape, best case is that the case is dismissed, and it's forgotten. Worst case is you're sent to prison for a few years, raped in prison, and then not allowed to live in most cities due to zoning requirements relating to registered sex offenders.

Here's the life of a normal guy who happens to be a registered sex offender:

http://federalism.typepad.com/crime_fede...ter_f.html

[MikeCF]

(09-21-2011 12:22 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(09-20-2011 10:39 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Not to make you panic, but you need to run Anti-False Rape Game. This is serious.

I'd expect a different phone dialogue in this case.

I know what these cases look like, have studied them for a decade, and defended them in real life.

Based on what the OP wrote, this girl is close to being tipped (either by friends or her own diseased mind) into viewing what happened as rape.

If I were him, I'd be very concerned with preserving and creating a record that would prevent me from being charged with a crime.

Or is it worth catching a case to fuck her again?

Come on guys. Think.

[Samseau]

(09-21-2011 12:36 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-21-2011 12:22 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(09-20-2011 10:39 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Not to make you panic, but you need to run Anti-False Rape Game. This is serious.

I'd expect a different phone dialogue in this case.

If I were him, I'd be very concerned with preserving and creating a record that would prevent me from being charged with a crime.

Exactly what kind of record should I be creating?

[MikeCF]

(09-21-2011 01:04 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Exactly what kind of record should I be creating?

Go out with her again. See and be seen in public venues. Then go home.

When you get home, send her a text right away. "Great seeing you" or something. That way, you can prove you weren't with her. (She may say you tried raping her, even on a night you didn't have sex.)

Also, log onto Facebook and update your status. Facebook keep tracks of that stuff. It will give you an alibi in case she claims she went home with you.

The two main keys:

1. Be seen with her in public/bars that have videos.
2. Go home alone.

The thing to remember with women: They can lie and still get you arrested. It doesn't matter. They are not held accountable. The media won't even put the names of false rape accusers in the paper. It's zero risk for women.

Not saying this is a high probability event. Odds are, nothing will go down. Yet even if there's a 1% chance, it's good to cover your ass.

Read up at Shrink for Men on borderline personalities. Insightful stuff. You can have a great time with a chick, and next night, she's feeling regret.

You can learn how to recognize these women. Then avoid them.

[OGNorCal707]

My ex-girlfriend had borderline personality disorder (I later came to find out after some therapy), she was definitely a psychopath. I haven't read through everything here, but I don't know if I would jump to any conclusions about false-rape or this girl be BPD.

I would say never underestimate what a crazed woman with BPD can do, I myself got arrested when my ex was belligerently drunk and went insane, and called 911. I've already written a long post on it in the past, but in a nutshell I got screwed over, didn't do shit, got wrongfully arrested. Foruately she didn't smash her head against the wall to make it look like I hit her, like she was threatening to do.

[Screwston]

I don't like that R word. Gives me goosebumps!

[iknowexactly]

I also don't like the tone of the girls statements, something like I didn't want it to go that far, I don't know if she's planning fake charges, but there something unsettlingly uptight about saying he didn't want it to go that far when it went that far because she was there and willing to fuck.

That's a creepy disconnect-- "I did it." combined with "I didn't want to do it. "

I don't have a legal grasp of this whole trail leaving strategy, why is it better than just avoiding her totally?

But either that preventive stuff or avoiding her might be a good idea, she's never going to be compliant, willing fuck with all that bullshit, conflicted noise going on in her head.

There's plenty of girls who will gladly fuck your brains out and be happy they did it. Why deal with an unpredictable neurotic, just cause she fucked you? It's overvaluing her.

She's not sex-positive. Sex is dirty for her unless it follows rigid rules-- which you don't share.

[K-man]

This thread took a detour towards false-rape charges, which I can't comment on, living in another country now (not the US) where such a thing would be ridiculous.
However, I can comment on the having sex issue - I have had similar situations where if I only fucked a girl once and didn't see or call her for almost a week (like you did Samseau) things were over. The girl would say something to the tune of I was hoping for something serious, but you turned out to be an asshole so I'm done with you.
I have even had girls who I've fucked not once, but several times over several weeks, suddenly turn cold on me with the "you are only using me for sex, you don't call me often, you don't care about me, etc." and stop the sex. Not because they didn't like it, but because they are feeling the situation is not under their control and they don't like that.

So my advice is, yeah, go out with her if you think the false-rape shit might be a real threat and establish an alibi - otherwise, just text and cancel.

[Samseau]

Quote:

There's plenty of girls who will gladly fuck your brains out and be happy they did it. Why deal with an unpredictable neurotic, just cause she fucked you? It's overvaluing her.

I know I'll have some new women lined after this weekend, so you are correct. It's easier just to dump the fucked up ones. That's usually what I do.

When I first got into the game, I learned not to give a shit. But now, I take "Not giving a shit" to the next level, because I treat women like science experiments. I use them for knowledge and each time I encounter a situation, I'll try something new to see if I can produce any different results. That's how I improve my game.

Do I care if a girl dumps me? What difference does it make? Either way we stop seeing each other.

Do I care if I fuck her again? I've already had my fun with her. The only reason to do this is to study the psychology of this broad and see if I can learn anything, since I've already had a run-in with this neurotic personality type before.

Am I overvaluing her? How, when all I do is put in minimal effort? I meet for a date to do something I enjoy, then try to bang her afterwards. It's not like she's flaked on me, and I've been chasing her to go out with me. It's not like I haven't banged her yet. It's not like I've spent any money on her. It's not like I've been making phone calls to "just to check up on her". If anything I'm undervaluing her, which is causing her feelings of inferiority.

[Roosh]

I don't think this particular case will lead to a false accusation, but the tip by Mike to be seen in public with her is a good idea.

If you like the girl, I would try to have sex with her again, since you can argue that a girl who banged you after getting "raped" is a liar.

I once had sex with an American girl who cried afterwards for a good 15 minutes. We used a condom, but afterwards I was freaking out. I still kept my game tight with her, and in a couple days she texted me asking what I was up to. I saved that text forever. I got a few back-and-forths going to show she wanted to see me again, then never contacted her again.

I think going beta when she's feeling some buyers remorse is a horrible option because it's like giving her a green light to trample you. Just be the guy that led to her having (consensual) sex with you in the first place.

[Roosh]

Quote:

What do we know about men who become the targets of false allegations of abuse?

They tend to be your average nice guy who has a more nurturing and passive personality. These men are unlikely to be socially aggressive or competitive and tend to lack insight into their personal relationships, which may explain why so many of these men are thrown for a loop when their ex throws them under the bus — even when she’s made threats throughout their marriage to call 911 and have him arrested (Wakefield & Underwager, 1990).

http://www.shrink4men.com/2011/08/24/fal...y-accused/

Sounds like being alpha is natural immunity to false rape accusations.

[Giovonny]

Just her conflicted female brain at work. Don't let her confusion, confuse you. She might regret it in the morning but change her mind before lunch, then after she eats, regret it again, only to not care about it by dinner time. Then regret it again as she is watching tv, but then be happy about it when she gets into bed and plays with herself.

Ignore what she says. Go out with her again. Have a good time. If she wants to bang, bang her. If she doesn't, play it cool.

I like these comments..

(09-20-2011 10:40 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

This girl's just seeking a little re-assurance that you're not just going to use her as a fuck toy and drop her the instant you're bored with her (though that's probably the case)

(09-21-2011 12:11 AM)tenderman100 Wrote:  

If the first date is a fuck, I typically don't mind if the second date is fuck-free. It cements in the lizard's mind that this guy is not just about sex, although in the end, you really are all about that. This fuck free second date is part of the preparation for the totally sexual relationship.

Then next time, she fucks, or you dump her. Simple as that.

[el mechanico]

I agree with Gio. She is either trying to move you into boyfriend mode via OMG I don't do that! How did you fuck me? Or using the dirty game of you better respect or else.. just to make you worry enough to spend the time to make sure its cool.

When I was in High School every girl pretty much played the pregnant game for attention. Is this what it has evolved to?

[Basil Ransom]

While there's always reason to be circumspect, I don't think this girl is a psychopath. What probably happened is that she usually waits longer until she has sex. She goes on a date with a guy who, for once, pushes all the right buttons with flawless logistics, and sex happens. Afterwards she feels blindsided, because she never has sex that quickly.

As for the phone convo, I would've said something like "I understand," and Tuth's lines about going with the flow, it just happened, and that you just enjoy her company.

However, I don't think I'd bring up the previous phone conversation. Just focus on having a good time. If you are going to mack her, try to get her to make the moves. Arrange it so it's her moving in for the kiss and such. You don't want to revive those feelings of being pressured.

(09-21-2011 11:11 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

I think going beta when she's feeling some buyers remorse is a horrible option because it's like giving her a green light to trample you. Just be the guy that led to her having (consensual) sex with you in the first place.

This. Never even remotely apologize in cases like these. As we always say around here, girls buy into your frame. If you don't apologize, its possible the whole thing can wash away, and she'll think nothing really happened. If you do apologize, she will become convinced you are guilty, and start to think you did something very wrong. Out of a sense of fairness, you think, "well if I say sorry and try to make nice, she'll let the whole thing blow over." Dead, dead wrong.

I did have an experience like this. Oddly enough, she was cool for a few days. And then she contracted a fever, blamed it on me, chastised me for banging her so quickly, and proceeded to severely hate me. She definitely had a personality disorder. She actually ended up dating my roommate and good friend a month afterwards, good times.