[ElJefe]

Samseau,

I couldn't be bothered reading all the posts because while they're littered with good advice, I felt a lot of it was icing on the cake and not helping you out specifically.

You've diagnosed the situation correctly, she's insecure. She probably really likes you and is determined to play this one right and she's ashamed she didn't live up to her own subconcious standards even if the SATC culture tells her to be a a slut. She feels used when she at the time was thinking she would use you, but the hamster has spun himself into exhaustion the brutal truth remains.

To tackle this you just BLAME IT ALL ON YOUR FEELINGS.

The great thing about feelings for girls is that it ABSOLVES you of ANY GUILT. Say things like you couldn't help yourself, it was just in the heat of the moment, and in situations like those, you like to follow you heart - this is slutspeak for doing whatever you want without feeling bad, including cheating.

This girl is probably a cheater, and so this EXACT line will work with her. If she wasn't, she'd be more secure and probably would've made you wait a date longer.

If it DOESN'T work, she'll be a girl worth investing in long-term (given looks, intelligence, etc. all fall into place) because she doesn't buy that SATC bullshit. But I'm going to be on option 1.

Let us know how it goes

[Chad Daring]

Just a thought, seeing how American girls put so much emphasis on the opinions of their dumbass/jealous friends, its not hard to imagine she brought up the fact that you guys had sex and her friend either guilt tripped her or gave her some punkass advice like "dont sleep with him again of he'll think you're a slut"

[oldnemesis]

(09-21-2011 12:33 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

If you're falsely charged, would you want to sue? Keep in mind people think the criminal system allows the guilty to "get off on technicalities."

For several reasons.

First is self-protection. When people see you stand up for yourself and will seriously damage those who try to attack you, they're much less willing to attack you. They will find an easier target, there are too many of them.

Second, is to pay back. For me this alone would be good enough reason. Everyone who'd drop any false charges on me would remember it as their worst mistake till the end of their life - hopefully spending their paycheck on shrinks and anti-depression drugs. And of course it is not gonna be a honest fight, this is for losers.

Quote:

Would you want any employer who Googles your name to learn you were accused of rape?

This is the third reason to fight back. Everyone could be falsely accused on something. Indeed it would be helpful for any employer who googles the bitch's name to learn she has falsely accused someone of rape.

Quote:

If you are a young man falsely accused of rape, best case is that the case is dismissed, and it's forgotten.

With this mentality it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people think "justice is unfair". Thing is, if even you're not going to stand up for your rights, why would someone else?

[oldnemesis]

(09-21-2011 11:16 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Sounds like being alpha is natural immunity to false rape accusations.

Kind of. In my opinion it should be enough just to show her that you're not going to tolerate any bullshit towards you. This usually comes naturally from the people who behave this way:

- Telling the relevant stories; for example, I often mention that I fought and so far won every traffic ticket I've got in my life. I may also mention I've successfully used the justice system against the Russian police (and won all but one case), and helped my friends with their small claims case. I can also throw in a story about Russian mentality "no bad deed ever goes unpunished". For some people it may be useful to mention their legal, political or criminal connections.

- Expressing your opinion about things happening with others; for example if I'm talking to a chick and see another chick screaming on another dude, I always ask the chick I'm talking to her opinion about why she thinks that tough looking dude tolerates such bullshit. Typically she responds that a lot of American dudes put up a "tough guy" storefront, but behind that they are just pussies who can't stand up for themselves. Doesn't surprise me anymore.

- Putting your money where your mouth is - do not tolerate bullshit against yourself. She will test you to see if you're congruent with what you've said. You should be.

[CupCake]

RESISTANCE = DROP.

If a girl starts "regretting" anything at any time I drop the whole thing immediately. I make it a rule to not fight resistance. To do otherwise is to over-value her girl-parts and potentially put yourself in danger.

The "I-go-with-the-flow" line is very useful for removing the shame that she might be experiencing in sleeping with you so quickly, but there may be little incentive to keep this boat afloat. The sex won't be that great (could be terrible) if she is emotionally inhibited and we're all too familiar with the potential legal ramifications if a girl starts the walk down Crazy St.

There are plenty of women out there, dude. Drop this one and save yourself some frustration.

[Samseau]

Okay, had a date last night, no sex.

Got her back to my room, she went up saying "She had to be up early". Still got her shirt and bra off, but when the pants came she recoiled and said she needed to leave. So I didn't make a big deal out of it and went down to her car so I get back my visitor parking pass, when she dropped this bomb...

me: "Why are you kissing like that?"
her: "Like what?"
me: "you lean your neck forward and peck me on the lips?"
her: "Yeah, well, I'm kinda fucked up right now."
me: "What?"
her: "I just got out of a really long relationship, so I'm not sure how I feel about things right now."
me: "I understand."

This was at her car, right before she left. My interest in her went down like 50% as soon as she said this, and I told her I'd give a her call when I get back from NYC this weekend.

I should have known this chick had baggage, she's 28. The last 28-year old I dated was EXACTLY the same, told me she just got out of a long term relationship, puts out on the first date, and refuses to put out again. This is why I avoid dating girls close to 30, they're all fucked in the head.

So basically, when I come back from NYC, I have three options:

1. Do nothing, never call, never talk to her again.

2. Call her to see if she'll come over that night to "hang out" (booty call).

3. Setup another date with her.


Option 1 is very appealing, as I could care less about trying to work through her baggage.

Option 3 could be a huge waste of my time if she's done putting out. It might also make her feel comfortable with me, but I don't think she's worth it.

Option 2 is probably what I'll do, as it allows her to demonstrate her interest in me without wasting my time. If she comes over and doesn't have any more issues with sex I'll put more effort into her, otherwise it's ex-girl to the next girl.

[Samseau]

(09-22-2011 11:26 AM)CupCake Wrote:  

RESISTANCE = DROP.

There are plenty of women out there, dude. Drop this one and save yourself some frustration.

I think guys are a little confused here; when I date girls, they never intrude on me finding new girls, they do not take up excess amounts of time or money, and I'm not attached at all.

So like, there's no frustration on my end, there's not much of anything. Like I said, this is a science experiment.

[Tuthmosis]

(09-22-2011 11:39 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

So basically, when I come back from NYC, I have three options:

1. Do nothing, never call, never talk to her again.

2. Call her to see if she'll come over that night to "hang out" (booty call).

3. Setup another date with her.

I'm pretty sure she will reach out to you. She knows she made things awkward so, based on her prior statements, I'm willing to put money that she'll send out a "random" text to you at some point in the coming days to try to smooth things out, or at least restore her image. Keep in mind that the whole dynamic is different because you hit it already.

My advice would be to wait at little more than the conventional re-connect text period, to make her uncomfortable. At this point, she's probably expecting to hear back from you when you "get back from NYC." So, if after a couple of days of your published return date, she doesn't hear from you, you'll get this from her: "how was NYC?" At that point, you're in like flynn. Be a little coy, making it obvious that you're a little hesitant with her, but can be won over. She'll work to win you back. If the exchange gets to this point, you can allude to wanting to hang out with her, but not wanting to get mixed up with her baggage (be subtle).

If you don't hear from her, send out a non-sequitur in 10 days or so.

[Samseau]

(09-22-2011 12:06 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(09-22-2011 11:39 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

So basically, when I come back from NYC, I have three options:

1. Do nothing, never call, never talk to her again.

2. Call her to see if she'll come over that night to "hang out" (booty call).

3. Setup another date with her.

I'm pretty sure she will reach out to you. She knows she made things awkward so, based on her prior statements, I'm willing to put money that she'll send out a "random" text to you at some point in the coming days to try to smooth things out, or at least restore her image. Keep in mind that the whole dynamic is different because you hit it already.

My advice would be to wait at little more than the conventional re-connect text period, to make her uncomfortable. At this point, she's probably expecting to hear back from you when you "get back from NYC." So, if after a couple of days of your published return date, she doesn't hear from you, you'll get this from her: "how was NYC?" At that point, you're in like flynn. Be a little coy, making it obvious that you're a little hesitant with her, but can be won over. She'll work to win you back. If the exchange gets to this point, you can allude to wanting to hang out with her, but not wanting to get mixed up with her baggage (be subtle).

If you don't hear from her, send out a non-sequitur in 10 days or so.

This is an interesting option, but if this girl is anything like the last 28-yr old I dated, she will not recontact me. These girls are FUCKED UP, and just because I've had sex with her means nothing. They are only concerned with not being hurt again. 28-yrs seems to be the age when women start playing "hard to get" excessively so they can finally discover "Mr. Right".

Their feelings are detached because they are hurting from their last relationship, and so waiting to call her could signal to her (correctly, I might add) that she means nothing to me and further exacerbate her insecurities.

These girls are opposite from most girls, and suffer from extreme insecurity rather than the typical American vain bitch.

If I was dealing with a girl under 25, I'd do everything you said 100%. But she's 28, has issues, and my bets are on insecurity at the root of her issues. That's why she called me before the date. She also sent me this text 1 hour before the date:

"Hey still at work. U still up for hanging out?"

Even though we confirmed the date when she gave me that creepy ass phone call.

And when I tried to escalate to sex with her last night, she was into it at first, but slowly pulled herself out of the moment instead of releasing herself into her pleasure.

I think insecurity is the issue here, and using tactics to make her feel more insecure isn't going to help me tap it again.

[Basil Ransom]

I kind of feel bad for these kinds of girls. What happens to them is that these girls are in relationships spanning the years left of their prime, with men they are convinced they're going to marry. They break up, and they realize they've wasted the most valuable years of their life. If they get to advanced spinster status, they'll spin some BS about how every dick they touched was a learning experience.

But I know I shouldn't feel bad for them. They may bitch about getting played, but the truth is they never screened a guy for interest in marriage; if they had, many if not most would have avoided heartbreak. And, guys who indicate interest in commitment before a girl does are invariably punished, and written off as losers.

If a girl asked me for my advice, I'd tell her not to sleep with a man at least until it was clear he was committed to her, and that he was generally marriage minded (i.e. he wants to marry someone in the near future, and that she's a candidate). But girls are too slutty for this.

[Samseau]

(09-22-2011 01:29 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

If a girl asked me for my advice, I'd tell her not to sleep with a man at least until it was clear he was committed to her, and that he was generally marriage minded (i.e. he wants to marry someone in the near future, and that she's a candidate). But girls are too slutty for this.

If girls choose not to sleep with a man who is high value, he'll just dump them and girls will lose access to high value men. Girls put out in order to snag the alphas, as it's the only bargaining tool they have.


To be perfectly honest, our culture is structured to produce large amounts of spinsters. There aren't many strategies girls today can use except "settle".

[scorpio]

So let me get this straight. She's on the rebound and not willing to put out?

Waste of time.

[Samseau]

Never called her back, NYC took away all desire I had for her.

Regardless, here are the conclusions I've drawn from my experiment.



If, after having sex with a girl, she says things are going too fast, and she's over 27, then she probably has baggage. Here's how I would structure the phone call I originally received:

Her: "Um, I'm just calling to let you know that things just happened last time we were together and I didn't want it to go that far."

Enlightened Samseau: "You know, I thought you were different. This is disappointing."

Her: "Sorry, things were moving just too fast for me."

Enlightened Samseau: "I understand. We really clicked physically and things sort of just happened."

Her: "Exactly." (At this second, she would feel comfortable with me.)

Enlightened Samseau: "But I thought you might have been secure enough not to have any serious intimacy issues." (Now I make her feel insecure again, but on my terms.)


At this point in the conversation, she would have to start qualifying to me hard or I would drop her.


Her: "It's not like that. I like you, I really do. I just didn't want things to go as far last time." (She's not going to give up her position easily.)

S: "If you like me, why do you regret what happened between us?" (So make her qualify.)

Her: "It's not that I regret it, it's just that I kinda wished things had happened differently."

S: "Look, if we meet tomorrow, I don't want to hang with a girl who feels she made a mistake with me. That's not what I'm looking for right now. Either you enjoyed being intimate with me or you don't." (Intimacy is a great word. If she can't be intimate, then she's the one with problems.)

Her: "We didn't make any mistakes! It's just that, um, I'm not sure how I feel about things right now... I kinda got out of a serious relationship awhile ago and I still don't know what I feel." (Now she drops the bomb. But in theory, I'll see it coming and will react smoothly by continuing with the qualification frame.)

S: "Right, well, if we hang out tomorrow I don't want you to be there if you don't know how you feel about me."

Her: "No, I like you. Really, I do." (Qualify harder, bitch.)

S: "There's also no point in comparing me to some guys in your past. They're gone now." (It's my cock or some other random dude's cock. Take it or leave it.)

Her: "Yeah... I know."

S: "We'll have fun together, and move forward together. Okay?"

Her: "Okay."

S: "Alright. See you then."



And with a conversation like that, issues of escalating to sex should be much reduced.



Also, as a note to guys new to the game who are reading this...

Pay attention not to what I say, but how I learned from my experiences to improve my game. This thread is a direct insight into my mind and I'm confident it is what brings me my successes.

[scorpio]

(09-26-2011 07:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Enlightened Samseau: "But I thought you might have been secure enough not to have any serious intimacy issues." (Now I make her feel insecure again, but on my terms.)

At this point in the conversation...

a verbal diarrhea would be launched on you. Some may viciously attack you from nowhere, others will throw in emotional tantrums, the best ones will simply say fuck you and hang up.

Source: experience.

[Samseau]

(09-26-2011 08:54 PM)scorpio Wrote:  

(09-26-2011 07:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Enlightened Samseau: "But I thought you might have been secure enough not to have any serious intimacy issues." (Now I make her feel insecure again, but on my terms.)

At this point in the conversation...

a verbal diarrhea would be launched on you. Some may viciously attack you from nowhere, others will throw in emotional tantrums, the best ones will simply say fuck you and hang up.

Source: experience.

Good. I hope I get rid of the crazy bitches instead of wasting my time. Girls who like me will answer me seriously.

[Pusscrook]

(09-26-2011 09:22 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(09-26-2011 08:54 PM)scorpio Wrote:  

(09-26-2011 07:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Enlightened Samseau: "But I thought you might have been secure enough not to have any serious intimacy issues." (Now I make her feel insecure again, but on my terms.)

At this point in the conversation...

a verbal diarrhea would be launched on you. Some may viciously attack you from nowhere, others will throw in emotional tantrums, the best ones will simply say fuck you and hang up.

Source: experience.

Good. I hope I get rid of the crazy bitches instead of wasting my time. Girls who like me will answer me seriously.

I'm surprised you weren't blamed for bringing down the twin towers.

[Samseau]

Here's a follow up discussion I had with Tenderman:

Samseau Wrote:

"hey, I really like you, and because I really do...I want to make sure you feel right about this."

I said this to the girl I was trying to bang the other week while I was taking off her shirt and she just replied to me

"So if you didn't like me, you wouildn't make sure I feel right about this?"

Obviously, what she said is a logical fallacy of negating the sufficient condition to negate the negate the necessary condition. I didn't want to explain something like that to her while trying to bang her so I just ignored her and plowed.

But I just wanted to let you know your line didn't seem to work for me. I didn't cost me the bang or anything but the girl did not believe my bullshit. I think it's a bit too much supplication, although the line works for you.

But I did try it.

Tenderman Wrote:

I wonder if you just happened to get hooked up with a completely confused woman -- as opposed to the vast majority of simply largely confused women.

You should post that remark as one of the all time bollixed up shit tests.

Her remark is SOOO strange...so convoluted. Maybe she was thinking back to the first encounter and that, then, you DIDN'T like her and yada yada yada.

My approach has always been to find ways to make the woman comfortable with the situation. It's an approach that always worked for me, especially with married women.

Looks like I had a certifiably insane girl. Maybe taking steps to avoid a false-rape accusation wasn't such a bad idea after all.

Man, this all happened two weeks ago. Feels like a lifetime ago. She definitely had good cock sucking skills tho.

[Basil Ransom]

Samseau Wrote:

"hey, I really like you, and because I really do...I want to make sure you feel right about this."

I said this to the girl I was trying to bang the other week while I was taking off her shirt and she just replied to me

"So if you didn't like me, you wouildn't make sure I feel right about this?"

Obviously, what she said is a logical fallacy of negating the sufficient condition to negate the negate the necessary condition. I didn't want to explain something like that to her while trying to bang her so I just ignored her and plowed.

But I just wanted to let you know your line didn't seem to work for me. I didn't cost me the bang or anything but the girl did not believe my bullshit. I think it's a bit too much supplication, although the line works for you.

But I did try it.

In my experience, playing beta at the last minute doesn't work well. It confuses the girl. I've been an asshole all night, haven't given her a single genuine compliment. And she's definitely noticed it. She's a little skittish about sex. She feels uncertain.

And suddenly you bust out a side of you that she didn't know you had. And while that may sound like a good thing (see bad beta dating advice from women), it may confuse her and make her question what she's doing. Suddenly you're not quite the man she thought you were. Not that you've lowered your value per se, but that you've changed at a moment's notice.

IMO, it's better to go halfway: cut the dickish comments for a bit, be funny and light-hearted, don't pressure her, and chill out. Not insulting anyone's game here, just what I'd do.