[Hotwheels]

As Soup says in his post above, I have always had more success in colder months than summertime as I'm an ectomorph. The bulkier clothes make me a look a good bit bigger, which obviously most women prefer over a skinny guy. A hoodie or jacket alone probably adds 15 to 20 pounds to me visually.

[Cyrus]

You guys should take a look at the literature on this subject.

For starters: http://psp.sagepub.com/content/33/8/1167.abstract

For those of you who don't wanna read the article, basically bodybuilder guys, lithe athletic guys, and muscular are three categories of body type that are found to be the most attractive, and

Out of all 3 body types, the muscular presumably Ryan Reynolds type was *most* attractive, but it wasn't statistically significantly higher than macho and swimmer. Macho ranked lower than swimmer as well. While researchers are taught to ignore "statistically insiginificant" differences, I still think there's something to be said about the slight difference, still.

And don't confuse "swimmer" type with rib-showing scrawny ectomorphs either. Just because you can see abs, doesn't mean it looks good.

It doesn't boil down to you being big like Arnold or Zyzz, a "swimmer" type body that's very cut has also been rated by women as sexy. You don't need to be like that. Although it helps. Muscle wins out at the beach and at festivals everytime.

What I've personally noticed from girls that I've dated and girls that I've asked is that each girl cares about three things about a man's body. His face, his penis (they like em big), and usually *one* body part on a guy.

By that I mean some girls *LOVE* abs, some love shoulders, some love arms, etc. Having the whole package just helps you win out with more girls. It's pretty interesting the different type of reactions I get toward my body with a new notch.

What I've also noticed is that your notch count WILL increase with your weight gains from muscle. To an extent. When you get bulkier, you start attracting one new group of women, start intimidating a different group, and maybe even turn off a different group still. Just have confidence brahs.

[Hendrix]

Is it really a good idea to build a physique based on "what a woman would like"?

Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be better for guys just to focus on the physical activity that they like, and hopefully, good at? Whether it's swimming, marathon, body-building, competitive eating, etc...

I saw guys with very different builds, from emaciated to GROSSLY OBESE get laid, so how much of a difference does it really make?

[_DC_]

(04-11-2012 06:24 PM)Hendrix Wrote:  

Is it really a good idea to build a physique based on "what a woman would like"?

Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be better for guys just to focus on the physical activity that they like, and hopefully, good at? Whether it's swimming, marathon, body-building, competitive eating, etc...

I saw guys with very different builds, from emaciated to GROSSLY OBESE get laid, so how much of a difference does it really make?

This may be a valid point if you mean laid by hot girls. Only in extenuating circumstances are emaciated or obese dudes getting laid by hot girls.

Squabbling over whether attractive girls dig a surfer/swimmer build or bodybuilding/football build (both low bf% and at least some muscle) better may very well be pointless, true.

[ABDada]

One thing to consider about getting huge (or, worse, an ever growing physique) is personal maintenance and clothing.

I was scrawny until I was 22. Rail thin, people were worried. I married, and by 28 I was fat -- 36" chest, 36" waist, and probably 38" at the navel.

Now I'm 38. Last year I got my waist down to 31" (Atkins style) and this year I'm at 29" waist and a 39" chest. I can add another 1-3" on my chest this year (I can bench my weight for the first time repeatedly, 145#).

Close to 100% of my clothes are either bespoke or at least tailor fit. I have Target shirts I had taken in. In the past 2 months, since I started working out Mondays, Wednesday and Fridays (I installed a gym at my space), my dimensions have grown and all of my personally picked out clothes are starting to get too tight in the arms and chest.

The flip side is that women are noticing -- and not just gals who've known me for a decade, but women right off the street.

I was at Nordstrom today looking over the clearance dress shirts for stuff I can have tailored, and when I was walking out, a relatively cute-average (6/7) gal commented on my back physique. I was, though, wearing a cheater T-shirt (think REALLY thin ringspun cotton, tight as can be), which fits fine under dress shirts I try on so I don't need to hit the changing room. She opened me with "Wow, your back...do you work out a lot?"

No, I didn't push her for a number, but the validation was nice. To be honest, I work out MAYBE 15 minutes a day, tops, 3 days a week, and I'm slowly getting cut pretty well.

Diet is easily 70%-80% of defined cut, and exercise is minimal. I don't supplement with anything but magnesium; I was doing Yohimbine HCL 12.5mg for 6 months to try to get rid of the stubborn fat remaining, but I was getting wood whenever the wind blew, so I stopped that.

I'm down to 9-10% body fat, and I would love to get to 8%. That Brad Pitt photo is my intended physique, if I can get there (more protein, added weights), but I am fearful of getting too bulky and needing to work too hard to maintain it. My current program of 15 minutes x 3 days a week is EASY; plus when I travel, I can do body weight exercises and I maintain just fine.

If I get bulky, clothes are going to cost a fortune. If I get bulky, maintaining that will be a major time problem.

I'd rather be cut and fit and not need to worry about custom clothes or time constraints.

[Scarlet_Terror]

I'm 6'0 and 165 lbs. I can't put on weight for the life of me. I'm able to get to 175 if I drink two protein shakes a day, go to the gym every other day, and eat 3 huge meals a day. At 175 I look super jacked in a tank top, but that's relative to my normal lankiness. At 165 I have good definition, I guess the closest body type you could say is a less defined Bruce Lee.

I've also noticed these chubby American girls will actually take a fat guy over a lean/fit guy because they feel more feminine by not being the fat fuck in the relationship.

[ABDada]

(04-12-2012 09:59 AM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

I'm 6'0 and 165 lbs. I can't put on weight for the life of me.

I had similar problems but upped my protein and it seemed to make a big difference.

I decided not to worry too much about it, since there's no way in hell I would eat that much food for the rest of my life.

(04-12-2012 09:59 AM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

I've also noticed these chubby American girls will actually take a fat guy over a lean/fit guy because they feel more feminine by not being the fat fuck in the relationship.

QFT -- I've never been able to get chubby gals to show a single spark of interest. Fit gals are all about it, but if they're carrying a few extra pounds, it's zilch.

My friend's girlfriend (very cute, 22, 7/8 or so) told me repeatedly that I'm in too good shape and they're intimidated, but I still feel that's bullshit.

Who wants pudge anyway?

[Scarlet_Terror]

It's about feeling protected or some evoutionary reason. I've also noticed that looking at the exes of girls I've dated they were also tall slender dudes. Just confirms you gotta know your niche and go for it.

[kosko]

Clothes hide this type of body type but other factors still stick out like the shoulders, chizled face, beedy eyes, tanned up skin, plus the swag and posture. The top 2 body types mirror Beckhams body type for which women have swoon for for a good 10 years now. Its funny because as a dude I would not want to be that lanky. Becks can't weigh more than 180 and if we were equal in height may be close to the same size. But this does mirror a mans natural fit physique. The puffy over muscular dudes is a creation that mirrors nothing in nature. Its a fetish that some Women actively seek out.

On the flipside tho I do remember reading how Pitt hat to aggressively cut down for FC. Dude is ripped to shits but probaly no more than 160-170. That's to damn light.

[Scarlet_Terror]

Beckham is too lanky? Are you kidding?

[mikeymike]

(04-12-2012 11:16 AM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

Beckham is too lanky? Are you kidding?

what do you think he is?

[Scarlet_Terror]

I guess you're right. I just googled him and I guess he is slender compared to most dudes. He's still pretty muscular, though.

[mikeymike]

(04-12-2012 12:16 PM)Scarlet_Terror Wrote:  

I guess you're right. I just googled him and I guess he is slender compared to most dudes. He's still pretty muscular, though.

He's got the build needed for his sport, too much bulk and it'd slow him down, solid trunk, good core, but not much unnecessary upper body muscle weight. He dresses very well to his body type so he looks bigger, the right fit goes far, and on the beach the tone plus the abs are more than enough but when you put him up against even a Ryan Reynolds who isn't an athlete or a mass monster by any means, you can see he's carrying quite a bit less size and musculature.

[Don]

If you ask me, this is mental masturbation. All of these discussions on "what women like best", like you should give a shit. Shut up and lift. Stop worrying about getting too big or unaesthetic. "contemporary bodybuilders" are where they are after decades of training, 7k calorie/day diets, and a shitload of drugs.

[Excelsior]

(04-11-2012 11:39 PM)ABDada Wrote:  

No, I didn't push her for a number, but the validation was nice. To be honest, I work out MAYBE 15 minutes a day, tops, 3 days a week, and I'm slowly getting cut pretty well.

Diet is easily 70%-80% of defined cut, and exercise is minimal. I don't supplement with anything but magnesium; I was doing Yohimbine HCL 12.5mg for 6 months to try to get rid of the stubborn fat remaining, but I was getting wood whenever the wind blew, so I stopped that.

+1. This whole post is solid, but what you've described here is actually my workout. 15-20 minutes a day, 4-6 days a week. It got me cut when I first started as a pre-teen, and has kept me cut since.

Diet really and truly is the key to a good physique. Once I re-did my diet 3 years ago (went from burgers and chips for dinner to salmon and grilled chicken), the weight fell off of me. I went from a bulky, but not so cut 235 (probably about 18% body fat) to around 210 (9-11% body fat), and I've stayed there since.

I never have to spend an hour or more in a weightroom, nor do I need to do miles worth of cardio. A quick, short but intense 10-20 minute workout is all I've ever needed. Sometimes, I can make it even shorter by just doing max-outs certain days as a workout (ex: go until failure on 225lb bench).

Keeping weights in your space is key. Mentally, it keeps you in the game (no distance between you and gym to encourage occasional slacking) and it allows you to work out when and how you want. I keep at least four dumbbells in my dorm room at all times (two 55lbs, two 30lbs), and at home I have a combined bench/squat rack. If you can buy a portable pull up bar, do that too. Little home gyms like these are some of the best investments you can make in your body.

Bottomline, listen to AB, dude knows what he's talking about. The only thing I would add here relates to supplementation: get a good multivitamin. I'm fond of GNC MegaMen Sport myself, but shop around to find one for you. MuscleMilk is also your friend.

[Hades]

On building a desirable waist/shoulder ratio, I have a comment.

Don't bitch about genetics until you have been doing any number of wide-grip pullups or lat pulldowns for a month. Give it a shot and see.
That will widen and strengthen your upper back (courtesy of the lats) more than anything.

Not sure about narrowing the waist outside of losing weight. Genetics will help considerably here but again small adjustments to lifestyle will make a big difference over time. Americans constantly cite genetics as a reason for why they're unattractive, and I think that's irritating. Most of it is probably a bad diet.

[Screwston]

For pulls ups - I have a pull up bar that I attach to the door. How far apart should my hands be? Is it better if my knuckles are facing me or the other way?

[ABDada]

(04-12-2012 08:09 PM)houston Wrote:  

For pulls ups - I have a pull up bar that I attach to the door. How far apart should my hands be? Is it better if my knuckles are facing me or the other way?

I have one of these at my #1 gal's apartment and I do all of those pull-ups: far apart, close together, chin ups, pull ups, negative chin-ups, etc.

This: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-impor...-training/

[theIVth]

(10-07-2011 09:16 AM)Moma Wrote:  

Lizards like good bodies on a man in exactly the exact same way a man likes a good body on a lizard.

How many sane guys have you ever said "Oh, I don't like her, I don't like those C-cups, I prefer A cups"?
How many sane guys have you ever heard saying "I don't like her bottom, it's too round, I prefer a sloppy sagging arse"?

A muscular male is associated with security and protection on a biological level from lizards. Yes, you can get puzzy with money, cars and boats and rah rah rah but those are material objects that are respected and taught on a social level.

If we are all trapped on some wild ass island and you have one cat that is flush with paper and another cat that's built like Brock Lesnar, what would our natural instinct tell us to side with?

Having a muscular body decreases the amount of game needed for lizards. I can attest to that personally, my friends can attest to that.

I have a friend that used to be chubby. Fat face, big gut, the works.

His face was cool but reptiles weren't really feeling the fat boy look too tuff. He would get his lizards but these would be here and there. A fat one here, a crazy one here etc. Pity fcuks and so on. This was in London UK and they are less lenient of fat folk there in my experience.

Fast forward one year. We started working out, he started trimming down, eating healthier and gaining more lean muscle (which burns fat during sedentary periods).

He started looking better, his posture improved and so on. Lizards began noticing him more (I was observing them carefully). We had female friends that now were expressing interest in going further with him.

We were always clubbing and he was starting to pull quality muff.

My point is, working out helps in gaming in this sense. Having and showing a muscular body helps with the attraction and piquing process of gaming.

In gaming, you have to pique a lizard's interest sexually and make her fantasise about you in a sexual sense.
Having and showcasing a muscular body will attract the lizard's interest. You will see it in her eyes and her glances.

A lizard cannot help looking at a good body, the same way a man cannot help admiring a good looking body. A good looking body will actually compensate to some degree for a bruck down face.
A guy could look like Tommy Lee Jones but if his body is right, a lizard will fcuk him just for the body.
It's the same way many men (including myself) will fcuk a lizard who has a great body and an ok or sub ok face.

[b]WHAT TYPE OF BODIES DO LIZARDS LIKE, IN GENERAL[/b]?

Lizards like a cut, muscular body in general. Anything that matches the composition of a male who is six feet and in the 180 to 220 pound range of lean muscle will corner a majority of the market share. Anything over 220 pounds (allowing for freak exceptions to maybe 230 pounds)will start to look too hench and they will have that meathead look.

I am not certain that lizards enjoy a meathead generally speaking. Having an overly jacked body is almost like a cartoonish exaggeration of physical fitness. It's like seeing a woman with super big tits, the type that you could literally sit drinks on or having an arse and hips so wide, you again could rest beverages on them. I mean, I love big tits, big round arse and wide hips as much as the next man but there is a point where it becomes cartoonish and this is the same for women when they regard some of these super juiced physiques out there.

Some lizards would entertain the idea of fcuking Gunter Schlierkamp or Ronnie Coleman but by and large, they would find it excessively large.

However, it is safe to say that NONE of us in here without the assistance of the 'juice' is capable of such body proportions so don't worry about that.

I think this type of look (please see below) is a good template. It could be toned down a few notches

but if you follow the framework, you've taken care of the physical aesthetics portion. Serge Nubret still exists (barely) within the parameters of a great physique.

This

[Cyrus]

For wide grip, pretty far apart. Take a look at the commercial systems for reference, they usually are provided with three different grips. The closest is for chinups which work your biceps (and back for stablisation), the medium one is for the normal tricep pullups, far is teh widegripz

I used to think I was a beast at pullups,set the record on the Varsity soccer team for 21 consecutive, perfect form pullups.

Then I realized I couldn't do even 3 measly wide grips with good form, whilst even stronger in college.

I highly recommend pullups versus lat pulldowns on the machine btw.

Also, I kinda disagree on the 180-220 lbs. They do get a majority, but definitely not the majority you speak. I know many tiny girls who chase after 250+ men, exclusively football player types, and I know many taller girls who chase after me, sitting at only a buck fiddy. I'm cut though, that's the difference btwn other 150z.

Height is most important...my 6'3-6'5" friends have women aggressively chasing them

[pikachufanboy]

i have the brad pitt fight club look. i'm a cross country runner who looks built (for a cross country runner) but much leaner than any gym rat.

shame girls don't know that until i've already seduced them the hard way. my physique gives me no benefit pre-sex. i'd do better if i was fat (15%) with big arms.

[whitenoise]

(04-12-2012 08:16 PM)Cyrus Wrote:  

For wide grip, pretty far apart. Take a look at the commercial systems for reference, they usually are provided with three different grips. The closest is for chinups which work your biceps (and back for stablisation), the medium one is for the normal tricep pullups, far is teh widegripz

I used to think I was a beast at pullups,set the record on the Varsity soccer team for 21 consecutive, perfect form pullups.

Then I realized I couldn't do even 3 measly wide grips with good form, whilst even stronger in college.

I highly recommend pullups versus lat pulldowns on the machine btw.

Also, I kinda disagree on the 180-220 lbs. They do get a majority, but definitely not the majority you speak. I know many tiny girls who chase after 250+ men, exclusively football player types, and I know many taller girls who chase after me, sitting at only a buck fiddy. I'm cut though, that's the difference btwn other 150z.

Height is most important...my 6'3-6'5" friends have women aggressively chasing them

wide grip, shoulder width, pulldown machine... it really doesn't matter as long as you're stimulating the back.

dorian yates favoured back exercise was shoulder width chin up grip pulldowns on the machine

i feel more confident now that i'm 195-200lbs (from 155) but don't get much reaction from others, unless they haven't seen me in a very long time

[Hades]

(04-12-2012 08:16 PM)Cyrus Wrote:  

For wide grip, pretty far apart. Take a look at the commercial systems for reference, they usually are provided with three different grips. The closest is for chinups which work your biceps (and back for stablisation), the medium one is for the normal tricep pullups, far is teh widegripz

I used to think I was a beast at pullups,set the record on the Varsity soccer team for 21 consecutive, perfect form pullups.

Then I realized I couldn't do even 3 measly wide grips with good form, whilst even stronger in college.

I highly recommend pullups versus lat pulldowns on the machine btw.

Also, I kinda disagree on the 180-220 lbs. They do get a majority, but definitely not the majority you speak. I know many tiny girls who chase after 250+ men, exclusively football player types, and I know many taller girls who chase after me, sitting at only a buck fiddy. I'm cut though, that's the difference btwn other 150z.

Height is most important...my 6'3-6'5" friends have women aggressively chasing them

Yeah, what he said definitely.

I'll add that you must engage your lats while doing all pullups. Pull your shoulders down into their sockets, then do wide grip pullups. There should be an space between your biceps and head, and you should be able to see your neck.
It will be hell for a week or two but your front profile will look great eventually.

[pikachufanboy]

i have the brad pitt fight club look. i'm a cross country runner who looks built (for a cross country runner) but much leaner than any gym rat.

shame girls don't know that until i've already seduced them the hard way. my physique gives me no benefit pre-sex. i'd do better if i was fat (15%) with big arms.

[pikachufanboy]

with a shirt on, i look the same as guys with zero definition.