[_DC_]

http://foxhoundstudio.com/blog/fitness-l...ant-to-be/

This is by far the most comprehensive online poll on the "ideal" male body I have seen. Not only does it just list a bunch of body types, but it actually uses "control groups" and runs the gamut on things like body fat percentage and bulk.

I know online polls should be taken with a grain of salt, but over 1000 total comprehensive responses is pretty impressive. The list also corroborates with anecdotal evidence I've accumulated e.g. "he [that dude on TV, or a mag] is hot" - hot babe. People can talk about how women love muscles until they're blue in the face, but I find actual polls much more convincing.

The Brad Pitt (in fight club) or Ronaldo (soccer player) body type seem to be a resounding victory.

Interestingly, I agree with the final question. I would enjoy being the "male preferred" body over the other three, the guy looks awesome, total badass... but that's not what women want.

Its amazing how 10-15 lbs of muscle on a scrawny frame (Lesson #1: Brad Pitt 73.5% ideal, vs. 2.0% dude with exact same build) creates a vast difference.

P.S. For the very muscle-bound guys on the forum, they also make a really good point in "Lesson #9", that although the bigger buffer types are generally out of favor, because this physique is rare, there will be 10 girls wanting it for every dude having it.

[Menace]

Well there's hope for me yet, because I do not have the genetics to be hulking (which I sort of dig for some reason, no homo). I just think I may need a personal trainer to achieve my goals. Does anyone know or have advice of how to find someone who knows what's up (i.e. thinks like us) in the DC area? How much do they charge?

[Basil Ransom]

Women don't know what arouses them, unlike men. And uglier girls like less manly guys, and surveys will have lots of ugly girls responding.

A photo and a real live physique are very different things.

I think the best way to find out is to ask guys how women have responded to their bodies: Assuming the same level of body fat, did your results with women ever get worse as you got bigger?

And I haven't heard anyone say yes.

Three more things:
1. As I wrote earlier in another thread, and MikeCF implies, the Brad Pitt physique is a whole lot less noticeable in clothes.
2. At some point, lower body fat makes you less attractive, and the bodybuilder pictured may be past that. Contemporary bodybuilders in competition are *definitely* past that point.
3. This one's speculation: Women may rank men according to an attribute, and end up choosing a guy who isn't 'ideal.' She may say she wants a guy who's 6'2", but she's in the club, and suddenly the tallest dude in the joint is looking pretty hot, because he towers over the competition. Same for muscle. Tyler Durden starts looking a little small when he's surrounded by bigger dudes - her preferences could easily shift towards the baddest dude in the joint.

[MikeCF]

Put a shirt on the guys, and the results will be different.

[_DC_]

(09-14-2011 03:06 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

Women don't know what arouses them, unlike men. And uglier girls like less manly guys, and surveys will have lots of ugly girls responding.

A photo and a real live physique are very different things.

I think the best way to find out is to ask guys how women have responded to their bodies: Assuming the same level of body fat, did your results with women ever get worse as you got bigger?

And I haven't heard anyone say yes.

I think its like a niche market. Having a substantial amount of muscle and a low body fat will be your best bet. IMO, If you feel like getting bigger and stronger, you will fulfill a "niche market" wherein girls just love this rarer body type.

[_DC_]

(09-14-2011 03:09 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Put a shirt on the guys, and the results will be different.

This is a good point. Three things are going to be overwhelmingly in your favor with a shirt on: Height, Broad Shoulders, and Slim Waist.

Its scientifically proven that women generally prefer height as well as a V-shaped torso (combination of broad shoulders and slim waist) throughout the entire world. I will post links if people feel like refuting this for some reason.

[Parlay44]

(09-14-2011 03:02 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Well there's hope for me yet, because I do not have the genetics to be hulking (which I sort of dig for some reason, no homo). I just think I may need a personal trainer to achieve my goals. Does anyone know or have advice of how to find someone who knows what's up (i.e. thinks like us) in the DC area? How much do they charge?

You've gotta eat a lot more and properly. Do some research on pre and post work-out nutrition.

[ea303]

I think this is a waste of time argument. Hit the gym twice a week, dont be a fat ass, eat decently, and get 8 hours of sleep and you are doing better than 60% of guys walking around. Girls would be doing better than 75% of the female population.

Throw in a 40-50k job, no debt, a none elephant man face, and the ability to have a decent conversation / relate to people are you are now a 5-10 percenter.

Everything else, is everything else....

[Basil Ransom]

(09-14-2011 03:28 PM)ea303 Wrote:  

I think this is a waste of time argument. Hit the gym twice a week, dont be a fat ass, eat decently, and get 8 hours of sleep and you are doing better than 60% of guys walking around. Girls would be doing better than 75% of the female population.

Throw in a 40-50k job, no debt, a none elephant man face, and the ability to have a decent conversation / relate to people are you are now a 5-10 percenter.

Everything else, is everything else....

Uhh, maybe in some podunk town. If you're in a big city going out, you'd be pretty average with those stats. Thus game. And muscle.

[ea303]

I dont know where you live, but in most places I have been (and I have been to alot of places) guys usually hang there hat on 1 big thing. Most guys usually lack in some area. Game (mouthpiece), looks, cash, or something else. If one is well rounded in most areas he should do quite well. I strongly believe just being in shape puts you ahead of most guys.

Also we are especially saying the same thing. One can build muscle doing full body heavy lifts 2 to 3 days a week, and game is pretty much all the other stuff. I do 3 days a week and its working quite well. Arguing about being in the top 5% in terms of fitness or the top 2% in terms of fitness is .....

[Screwston]

I'll say it again since some people act like you have to be some huge bodybuilder to pull the best girls. My uncle is in his mid 40's, 5'8, and has a Henry Rollins body (about 175 pounds with a good upper chest, shoulders and arms). He's not huge but not skinny. He constantly gets fucked with by barely legal girls and ones in their early 20's. All ethnicities and all sizes seem to like him. If he wasn't a family man, he could be be up there with Mixx.

[ea303]

Houston I agree, just get out there and hit the gym (hopefully doing compound lifts) and keep at it and you will do fine, as long as you eat right and sleep well.

Also I hope to be your uncle when I get old lol.

[mofo]

[Chad Daring]

I completely agree with Basil on one key point, ugly/fat girls will always want a less attractive guy, because they dont have to worry about him finding a better looking girl. End. Of. Story.

Guys want the hottest girl they can get, always, but girls dont want a guy thats more then 1 or 2 points above them because they know that means he's more likely to have a girl hotter then she is approach him, and as I was stated, guys always want the hottest girl they can get.

[Neo]

I agree that that the results would probably be different with a shirt on.

[Magnum]

It's been proven a large differential between the shoulders and waist turns on most womens attraction switches.Think Steeve Reeves,the statue of David,and olympic swimmers and sprinters.Agree that the Brad P physique would not be as impressive in real life as it would simply be overpowered by more muscular guys.Also agree with ea303 that by merely keeping in good shape and being able to hold a conversation you're going to be ahead of alot of guys.

[rudebwoy]

(09-14-2011 03:28 PM)ea303 Wrote:  

I think this is a waste of time argument. Hit the gym twice a week, dont be a fat ass, eat decently, and get 8 hours of sleep and you are doing better than 60% of guys walking around. Girls would be doing better than 75% of the female population.

Throw in a 40-50k job, no debt, a none elephant man face, and the ability to have a decent conversation / relate to people are you are now a 5-10 percenter.

Everything else, is everything else....

Spot on, I would say hit the gym 3x week and you are good.

I lived in London UK for a few years and there are not alot of guys who are even built period. I even witnessed guys with bellies strutting around as if they were special.

The examples of Brad Pitt and Ronaldo are silly, first off they are not ugly guys and also they are famous.

Hot girls tend to like big guys, so in my experience the bigger I was the more girls tended to grab me. My theory is that I cannot control alot of things in my life, but I can control my body/face and how it looks.

[Basil Ransom]

(09-14-2011 05:44 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

I completely agree with Basil on one key point, ugly/fat girls will always want a less attractive guy, because they dont have to worry about him finding a better looking girl. End. Of. Story.

Guys want the hottest girl they can get, always, but girls dont want a guy thats more then 1 or 2 points above them because they know that means he's more likely to have a girl hotter then she is approach him, and as I was stated, guys always want the hottest girl they can get.

I wrote a little more on this in the other thread:

Girls who are plain and not so slutty will often pre-emptively reject manly good looking guys, because they know he won't stick around. Then they claim to be the ones doing the rejection, when it's precisely the opposite. Think of the fat chicks who say they love skinny or nerdy guys - it's because his outside options are limited. So when half the girls in a survey are either fat or unattractive, as is undoubtedly the case, the results are worth a whole lot less than you think.

It's another difference between men and women - men will still be honest about what is and isn't attractive. Say a guy's never had luck with attractive blonde chicks, just always been rejected by them. He will still grudgingly acknowledge they're hot.

Put a girl in his shoes, at least an American girl, and she won't. She will talk shit about blondes, claim they're not attractive, and so on. If she acknowledged they were attractive, she'd have to own up to her failure to catch one. Chicks just convince themselves they didn't get it because they never wanted it in the first place. They can't stomach failure, so they deny and suppress it.

[ersatz]

Some of the hottest chicks I've seen in real life are the athletic ones (not amazons). The girls who do yoga, crossfit, water polo, non-anorexic dancers, etc. Holy shit, they look good and you can feel it. It looks like it's the same for guys too.

Too bad we don't have something obvious for guys. I tell girls all the time, look to Maxim for what guys like, not Vogue (or G's blog, best examples yet). Vogue is what women like.

[Screwston]

Basil - my phone is acting up so I can't quote your last post. I think it can be harder sometimes for good looking guys to get certain girls. You're completely right about them worried about the guy hitting it and leaving. Of course the freaks and sluts will be no problem but you might have to work extra hard for an average girl.

[Giovonny]

We don't get to pick our bodytype. The genetics we are born with will determine what kind of body we have.

Some people can add muscle easily, for some its hard.

Some people can lose weight easily, for others its hard.

Changing your body requires alot of hard work. To overcome your genetics, you practically have to change your lifestyle.

Some guys are naturally big boned, with broad shoulders and thick wrists. These are the guys who can really get big.

Other guys eat alot and lift alot but can't gain more then about 10 or 20 pounds.

Age is also a factor. When your young, and your metabolism is fast, things might be easier. Older guys have to watch their diets more carefully.

Lifestyle is a factor. If you have an extra 2 or 3 hours a day you can really lift hard. If you are working 50 hours a week, and have a family, workouts might have to shorter.

Try to maximize your own body and situation.

If a skinny guy want to get big, he usually has to force feed himself and dedicate himself to heavy lifting.

If a fat guy wants to get thin, he has to totally makeover his diet and lifestyle.

Body changing is not easy.

[_DC_]

(09-16-2011 11:53 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

We don't get to pick our bodytype. The genetics we are born with will determine what kind of body we have.

Some people can add muscle easily, for some its hard.

Some people can lose weight easily, for others its hard.

Changing your body requires alot of hard work. To overcome your genetics, you practically have to change your lifestyle.

Some guys are naturally big boned, with broad shoulders and thick wrists. These are the guys who can really get big.

Other guys eat alot and lift alot but can't gain more then about 10 or 20 pounds.

Age is also a factor. When your young, and your metabolism is fast, things might be easier. Older guys have to watch their diets more carefully.

Lifestyle is a factor. If you have an extra 2 or 3 hours a day you can really lift hard. If you are working 50 hours a week, and have a family, workouts might have to shorter.

Try to maximize your own body and situation.

If a skinny guy want to get big, he usually has to force feed himself and dedicate himself to heavy lifting.

If a fat guy wants to get thin, he has to totally makeover his diet and lifestyle.

Body changing is not easy.

This is all true, no doubt, but if what the poll shows is true, the body type most women prefer is much easier to obtain than the average male's impression of the ideal male body type.

Losing weight isn't easy, especially getting to 10% bf or lower, however I think most people here would agree that it is much easier than gaining muscle. You can lose 10-20lbs fairly easily in a month or two, but it will take you a year (if you're lucky and doing everything perfectly) to gain that much muscle.

The link is actually pretty uplifting news in my opinion, as the "trying too hard" look is actually heavily frowned upon.

But yes, just like your face, there isn't much you can do about the broadness of shoulders (something heavily discussed in another thread).

[Gmac]

(09-16-2011 12:51 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

The link is actually pretty uplifting news in my opinion, as the "trying too hard" look is actually heavily frowned upon.

I don't think this is groundbreaking news or anything either, at least for the manosphere.

[Basil Ransom]

(09-16-2011 12:51 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

But yes, just like your face, there isn't much you can do about the broadness of shoulders (something heavily discussed in another thread)

Getting bigger traps, back and shoulders will make you appear broader. The fact that some shoulder measurement will stay the same is irrelevant. Sure, there's a limit to the effect, but something can be done.

(09-16-2011 12:51 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

You can lose 10-20lbs fairly easily in a month or two, but it will take you a year (if you're lucky and doing everything perfectly) to gain that much muscle.

False. A kid training under the author of Starting Strength gained 46 pounds of lean body mass in 6 months, 31 lbs of LBM in 11 weeks. He had the advantage of professional coaching, but also ate an immense amount and put on a lot of fat. Point is, large gains in a short time are possible. His squat went up 200 lbs in 6 months too. And it's not that hard to get down to ~13-15% body fat either.

The study is flawed for the reasons I and others enumerated. Getting a top shelf physique requires a lot of hard work. Instead of putting in the hard work, people are denigrating the physique as not worth the effort. Maybe your time would be better spent elsewhere, in optimizing your game or whatever, but that's very different from saying a powerful physique is not ideal.

Lastly, even if getting bigger didn't improve your looks, it will probably make you more confident, as most guys report, and that will enhance your results with women.

[MikeCF]

In threads like this, it should almost be mandatory that a guy post a pic - because if you don't know enough to get your own body looking good, you have no business saying shit at all about what other guys can do...