[mcw78912]

(10-18-2017 07:07 AM)Kanasukia Wrote:  

I’ve been with this girl for about 2.5 years now. When we met (about 3.5 years ago), she had a boyfriend but we would still hang out and she would come over all the time. We still debate who made the “first move” but I ended up eating her out the same weekend her boyfriend broke up with her. She always would say “I never do this” and I believe her just because I know who she is now and she is not extremely outgoing when it comes to men (IMO). She had been trying to break up with him for at least a month, not necessarily to get with me, but because of the way he treated her. In fact, we both waited almost a whole year before we started dating. I didn’t even want to date anyone but she did something for me that I’ve never felt with any other girl. Since then though, some sketchy ass shit has been happening, especially since about the 1~1.5 year mark.

Some background info on her:
1. She stresses really bad and is a worry wart
2. She had begun taking classes when we started dating and it has been getting harder and harder each semester.
3. She has a very guilty conscious (always apologizing for spilt milk)

So here’s when I started becoming paranoid.

1. She went on a trip with her friend to go visit her other friend at the beach for about 3 days. We spent the whole day she returned together. That night I received a text message from an obvious fake number saying “Do you know who your girlfriend has been texting?”. When I confronted her about it she started balling crying saying some random number (similar to the number that texted me) was texting her claiming to be her ex bf. She showed me screenshots of the convo and she said very little (as far as I know). I asked why she never mentioned it and she said that she knew it wasn’t him and it must’ve been someone fucking with her. Paranoia +1

2. I began noticing she brings up her ex a lot. Not necessarily in a good way, nor comparing, but she does talk about him. I also notice that she is obsessed with his new gf. I’ve seen on her Instagram and Facebook searches (through her showing me something and I would catch a glimpse), his new gf is always in recent searches. She flat out lied and said she never searches her because she is private and she doesn’t know how it was under recent, but I also know that she has searched videos on how to view private instagrams.

3. Speaking of social media, she was showing me someone on Instagram and went to the search menu and I saw that she had searched 3 variations of her ex boyfriend’s Instagram. For example, if his insta name was BOB123, I saw BOB1234, BOB321, BOB231. Again, lied to me and gave me a story I’m not buying.

4. She’s been very distant, sexually and emotionally. We barely have sex (idk if I can attribute that to school, stress, or just not having time) and she is on her phone A LOT. She just doesn’t seem interested in me anymore. She’s always texting books to her friends and always on social media and Snapchat.

5. This is the most recent. She called out someone for cheating on their gf. They ended up getting drunk and started posting on her Instagram “does your bf know about your ex?”. They then started texting her saying they had screenshots of her and her ex (whether it was texts or Snapchat idk) and that they would send them to me. He began to throw out name like Nick, and Lane saying they knew something about it. I was there the whole time on the couch and she read me the entire convo between her and this guy she called out for cheating. She said, I remember vividly, “I don’t know a Nick or Lane, hahahah. He must be pulling names out of his ass. What type of name is Lane? Is that even a name? Even my best friend said that he is drunk and pulling names out of his ass”. I never got any screenshots but that could’ve been because it would’ve ruined her ex’s new relationship, but here’s the kicker. She got really mad at me one day and showed me her blocked list on instagram, and I saw that she had blocked a Lane and a Nick. She also was doing a lot of hypothetical situation shit like “if he does send you SS, it could easily be faked” etc etc

There’s a lot more small stuff but I’ve had so many red flags idk what to think and any help is appreciated. It’s been eating at me for months now and my gut says something isn’t right but I have no hard evidence to back it up besides small circumstantial shit. Any help is welcome.

If you are not a suspicious guy in general and this girl is making you suspicious, listen to your conscience. It is telling you something you haven't consciously realized yet.

The fact that you're also sort of defending her is typical of something called "Stockholm Syndrome". In short, this is where the abused sympathizes with the abuser.

I went through something similar myself a few years back. The other posters asking you to run are all correct, and giving you the right advice. But you have to make up your own mind, and this could be hard as you seem to be sympathizing with her.


Vaun summarized it for you pretty well:

"Keeping a girl like this in your life will destroy your self worth, and self esteem as a man. The only way to regain it is by dropping her cold. Full on ghost. She is actively humiliating you in front of her friends, your friends, her exes and anyone else that probably comes into contact with her. Maybe you like the abuse and feel you dont deserve better in life. You would be surprised by how many men who do and stay in these situations."

[PapayaTapper]

OP

Ask her to show you her detailed phone bill online. She can delete the texts from her phone but the bill will have a list of all the numbers.

If she comes up with some excuse about not being able to show you...well then it will be up to you to make more excuses for her

[Vill@in]

So much great advice in this thread and you're not taking it to heart. So I'll offer another solution:

Go get your T-Levels checked.

[Kanasukia]

Very true, a lot of good advice. It’s hard to cut it off especially since it’s my first love. I definitely am biased towards her since im I a relationship with her so I understand.

[True Balla]

If you really want her back, just dump her. She'll come back, and probably be more obedient.

[Easy_C]

Looking at those quotes...

Sure, it's entirely possible for a lady to not be a huge party animal and still have fidelity problems. It would all stem from extremely poor impulse control. Some people simply don't have the ability to deny themselves anything that they want to do in the moment regardless of any consequences that they know might happen later.

[questor70]

The emphasis on the ex makes it feel like the guy was chosen just because she clutched at the first guy who offered a shoulder to cry on. Given that shaky foundation and how much she kept fixating on her ex I'm surprised the relationship lasted this long or that she offered as much sex as she did. I would look at it as an LTR that has already beat the odds and maybe has run its course rather than as a failure. Two and a half years is a pretty good run.

[Matsufubu]

(10-18-2017 03:51 PM)Kanasukia Wrote:  

Very true, a lot of good advice. It’s hard to cut it off especially since it’s my first love. I definitely am biased towards her since im I a relationship with her so I understand.

This is a much overlooked factor here. He's pair bonded with her, and that first one is a hard one to walk away from, believe me - I know.

Whether she's physically cheated, you can't know yet without a smoking gun. However, she is clearly emotionally cheating on you, and always has been. On this path it's only a matter of time before the opportunity arises and she follows through, using a combination of alcohol and emotional vulnerability to rationalise it as not her fault.

A woman who is done with a man does not stalk him in any way shape or form. He is dead to her on a biological level. This alone tells you that he's the one she's thinking of when she's fucking you. The only reason she turned him down after he asked her back is because he gave away his previous pimp-hand frame and so she could justify saying no to boost her ego. That doesn't mean she doesn't pine for the good (bad) old days where she was kept in line.

A woman like this can only be faithful to a man with pimp hand frame, which you do not have. She's deceitful and manipulative and has you sussed. You know why she's not taking painstaking steps to hide stuff? It's because she knows that she doesn't have to, because she's got you wrapped around her little finger and you're looking for any excuse to cast a blind eye to the reality of what she's up to.

Us (slightly) older guys are reading what you're writing and seeing the same old behaviours we've seen in women before. I know you're not going to dump the love of your life because some faceless names on a screen tell you to, but let this be the first step to evaluating your girlfriend's behaviour with an objective eye. The fact you're asking the question at all tell me that you know it's not right on an instinctive level.

She will not change, because you will accept what's going on. So again, it doesn't really matter whether she's physically cheated yet, because she will, whether it's tomorrow or five years down the line. Throwing away 2.5 years might seem like a horrible waste, but it's better than throwing away 10 years, your house and kids and God knows what else.

Keep questioning her in your head and you will see that you are being played. When you realise this you can pull the trigger.

Then she'll really come running, I guarantee it.

[Sam Malone]

(10-18-2017 03:27 PM)Kanasukia Wrote:  

I understand that everyone is basically saying the same thing so that definitely holds weight with me even though I’m new and don’t really know any of you lol. But thanks again everyone. Like I said I’ll keep it updated

Bold for emphasis.

Correct, OP, you don't know any of us. We have nothing invested, no dog in this fight. None of us are in a position to swoop in on this chick (versus some white knight local to you that wants to see you drop this chick so he can swoop in for the bang).

Which is why the opinions here should hold more water.

We can only speak from our own experiences...

I was married for over ten years. At (what I figure) the ten year mark, my now ex started getting distant. We didn't have sex as much as we used to, she was distant, always tired...

She was doing some extra-curricular activity (let's call it knitting class) one night a week. It was legit at first, I actually dropped her off to her female friends a few times (with the kids in tow). After a while, it just became easier for her to drive while I stayed home with the kids that night.

After knitting class, she'd go out and hang with the girls for a couple of drinks. A few times she'd come home much later than usual. When I'd press her about it, she would tell me that she'd had a little too much, and didn't want to get pulled over for a DWI, so she'd hang out at the home of one of her knitting class friends until she was sober enough to drive.

She'd also been spending more time on her phone texting. Previously, she'd show me some dumb or funny thing that one of her friends would text, but she was more guarded with her phone the last couple of months. To the point where she'd angle her phone just enough so I couldn't see the screen, but not enough to look like she was trying to hide it.

But, this was my wife. The woman who was vicious when it came to women even attempting to flirt with me. The same woman who found it deplorable when we found out that friends of ours were getting divorced because that wife was cheating on her husband.

There's no way she'd do something nefarious. No way. Nope. Not my wife.

Come to find out (from a phone call from the knitting place) that the knitting class was over about three weeks after the last time I took her to it. They were calling to ask if she wanted to re-up for the advanced course.

She failed to tell me about the knitting class ending. I hadn't let on that I knew, because it had been about four months since the last class.

The next night of knitting class, I offered to drop her off, whipping up some excuse about a kid-related thing about a mile from the knitting class.

"Thanks, that'd be great, but a bunch of us are going to _____ bar for _____'s birthday after class, so we'll be out kinda late. I can't see coming out to get me that late, I'll just drive."

After. Class.

Ok, now I knew she was full of shit, but I didn't know how high the shit was.

She came home about 1:00 in the morning, after hanging out at a woman's house (who supposedly lived three streets from the knitting class), and was texting her friend 'to make sure she got home ok'. But she slipped up. While I couldn't see her messages, I could see her punch in her 4 digit passcode.

Bingo.

So she passed out, and a few minutes later I grabbed her phone and went into the bathroom. After gleaning through a few messages, I found "Mary", and a lot of back and forth texting. Nothing sexual or really alarming, some chatter about dinner or the loud woman at the bar. The food was good, they both had a great time, "we should do that again soon" kind of stuff. A few messages looked out of place (like a response had been deleted), but no 'smoking gun'. I didn't think anything of it at the time, so I put her phone back and went back to sleep.

Nope. Not my wife. I bet she's taking a gourmet cooking class, and she's gonna surprise me with some crazy cuisine when she's done with that. Yeah, my wife is a good girl.

Quick sidenote before I go on: My ex's car had a few distinguishable features. A dashboard trinket, a couple of things in the back window, and a couple of bumper stickers that were unusual enough.

A couple of days after I inspected her phone, my father calls me. He asks if everything's ok with my ex's car. I ask why he asked that, and he tells me that another (nosy) relative saw the ex's car (recognized by the bumper stickers and interior stuff) at an apartment complex the other night.

The apartment complex is about three miles from my house... the knitting class is twenty miles away, in the opposite direction.

So I call the nosy relative, and she tells me about where the car was. She was sure it was my ex's car, she recognized the bumper stickers, but the dashboard ornament was a dead giveaway. I cool the relative down and whip up a somewhat plausible excuse. I tell her that my ex was there to pick up her brother's girlfriend because they got into a fight, and it's rough on my ex, so please don't mention anything to my ex if you should see her.

Now my brain biscuits are turning... why the hell is my wife telling me she's in one place, when she's at somewhere completely different ??

Nah, must be the relative was confused. It's a common car, and hell, those dashboard trinkets and bumper stickers are available everywhere.

Can't possibly have been my wife's car. Nope. That relative's always been a little off anyway, probably thinks she saw it.

Ya know what ? Just to give myself peace of mind, I'm gonna look at the numbers on our joint account phone bill.

I can't find the statement, so I go to the phone carrier's retail store and tell them I lost my copy. The kid prints out the statement with all the numbers, and I look at the night that my ex got home late and was texting to make sure Mary got home ok. And I see Mary's number. No texts while they were (supposed to be) at knitting class. There wouldn't be, right ? They're in class, why would the girls be texting each other in class ?

I'm leaving the phone store, and walking by the food court in the mall, and I spot a bank of payphones. So I head over, drop a quarter in, and dial Mary's number. And it rings five times before going to voicemail.

"You've reached John Smith. I can't come to the phone right now, so leave your name and number, and I'll get back to you."

I hang up, and figure I must have dialed the number wrong. So I drop another quarter and dial again... five rings later...

"You've reached John Smith. I can't come to the phone right now, so leave your name and number, and I'll get back to you."

Well, that's weird. Hmph. Maybe John is Mary's brother. Or her husband. Yeah. And they're on the same plan. Yeah, yeah, that must be it.

But wait... Mary supposedly lives twenty miles away... and my wife's car was spotted at the apartment complex only three miles from my house.

Heck, I gotta go that way anyway, I'm gonna cruise by the apartment complex and check out the building that my relative thinks she saw my wife's car at.

Everything looks ok... nice place... I'm gonna check out the mailboxes and see who lives here...

Oh, look at that... apartment #8... John Smith.

Then it all hit me. The realization. And it hit me hard.

From that point on, every move I made was in the shadows. I knew the ex was getting dicked on the side, but I didn't speak of it. Instead, I ran silent and deep, making all of my legal moves under the guise that (as far as the ex was concerned) I had absolutely no idea what was going on.

When the divorce process finally got underway (with my having her served with no warning), it was hell on Earth. Lots of tension in the house until she moved out a couple of months later (which was a huge move in my favor).

I survived the divorce. I kept the house, I'm primary, and the ex pays me support.

I've posted about my divorce success here before, but I'm drifting away from the crux of my post.

There were a shit ton of signs that pointed me to my ex's infidelity. Tons.

I didn't want to believe it. I didn't think it was possible.

I even got to the point where I was trying to convince myself that it wasn't remotely possible.

For the longest time, I wasn't even listening to my own self telling me the truth.

Your gut is there for a reason. Your gut tells you what direction to go when your heart and brain are in the way.

OP, you made this thread for a reason.

So listen to your gut.

[arsenal2000]

(10-18-2017 03:51 PM)Kanasukia Wrote:  

Very true, a lot of good advice. It’s hard to cut it off especially since it’s my first love. I definitely am biased towards her since im I a relationship with her so I understand.

In my personal experience the longer you are in a relationship of this nature the more ingrained is your suspicious of girls in general . Even if you meet a sweet heart down the road it is going to be really hard for you to trust .It would be better to leave her now to avoid getting deep anchored feelings of suspiciousness.

Start going out , meet new friends to have a life independent of her. Like one of the other posters mentioned the relationship has more or less run its course so be prepared either way for the eventual outcome.

[kaotic]

Late to the truth carpet bombing but this is a fantastic read.

Something is OBVIOUSLY going on if you're posting about it.

If a hoe cheats emotionally with a dude, she might as well be getting fucked by that dude.

That's a fact, this is why when we run game, WE FUCK THEIR MINDS, in order to fuck them, game them, and them wanting to stay with us.


It's an absolute must to to have trust, but once you get that gut feeling and a hoe is doing shady shit.

DROP that hoe, HARD, and go silent.


I disagree with dumping her and getting her back - if she's done it once.....she'll do it again and again.


You really want such an emotionally unstable woman in your life ? Your marriage ? Your family ?

[Jetset]

(10-18-2017 05:54 PM)Sam Malone Wrote:  

So she passed out, and a few minutes later I grabbed her phone and went into the bathroom. After gleaning through a few messages, I found "Mary", and a lot of back and forth texting. Nothing sexual or really alarming, some chatter about dinner or the loud woman at the bar. The food was good, they both had a great time, "we should do that again soon" kind of stuff.

Sorry for all that shit you went through, but the 'Mary' bit gave me a chuckle.

The knob-polishing housekeeper who had me in her phone as 'Christine' was always bitching about how her boyfriend was pressuring her to do an FMF threesome. At one point I started texting her shit about how pissed he was going to be if she got it on with Christine without including him, just for the lulz. Turned out he'd been reading her phone at night and that actually started some shit that she had to think fast to cover for.

Either way, here's my detective novel:

Plate tells me she's not banging anybody else. Plate is too hot for that to last long.

Plate complains some prominent married guy at work has been hassling her to get a glass of wine.

One day we're taking a Cialis-fueled power-fucking weekend at a lake and she checks her email in the hotel business center.

Forgets to log out when I go to check mine, and I see she's had an email exchange with him where she agreed to meet him for coffee.

LOL. Do not care, but make a mental note.

A few weeks later, I decide to see what happens and ask her if that guy's bothered her since then.

"Nope."

"Really? That's good, you said he was all over you."

"Yeah, I guess he just moved on."

"So you didn't meet him for coffee?"





Then? Twenty minutes of uncontrollable crying.

Never told her how I knew.

[Rhyme or Reason]

Fantastic responses. Jetset, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Sam, good stuff.

OP, please cease being a retard.

[fitness2569]

OP it's gonna hurt to end it now, but if you don't walk now it will destroy your life. It's better to have no woman than one who is just using you

[Rhyme or Reason]

(10-18-2017 10:22 PM)fitness2569 Wrote:  

OP it's gonna hurt to end it now, but if you don't walk now it will destroy your life. It's better to have no woman than one who is just using you

He's still focused on the past when she was fucking him daily and was infatuated with him and when he was in control of the relationship to one degree or another.

Problem is, all that is past tense now.

It's gone and isn't coming back.

Most don't want to accept this. Most don't want to recognize the signs of a bitch's heart turned frigid. So they rationalize.

All the painstaking detail has been covered by Jetset and others already, so I won't expound upon that. I just think OP needs a firm kick in the ass because as we know, sensible responses when offered to blue pill minds is the epitome of pearls before swine.

I will make the prediction he won't come back to keep us posted, and cite this as my proof:

Quote:

I’ve read everyone’s responses and now I think I’ll get a game plan together.

A game plan...isn't that cute.

I know I'm being harsh, but here's hoping this time the newbie thread creator actually learns and sticks around.

So OP:

Pull you fucking head out of your ass.

[Grizwald1400]

(10-18-2017 07:07 AM)Kanasukia Wrote:  

3. She has a very guilty conscious (always apologizing for spilt milk)

Does this bitch have a guilty "conscious" or is she running guilt "trips" on you? I say the latter. Drop this bitch like a hat dawg, its over. You're her little "sweet thing", a boy toy. This bitch has you laid up with her looking at Instagram gossip like you're one of her girlfriends. The problem isn't with her, its with you, you have to reevaluate your whole approach to women and your life period.

And I have an honest question, what do you actually like about her? What values does she have besides the fact that "she likes you"? To me it seems you got all wrapped up in this broad because she was giving you attention and subconsciously you're afraid of losing it and starting over.

And stop questioning her, tell her this ship has run its course, break her down real smooth. Don't get into some goofy argument about her being a liar because all she will do is keep lying and flip it on you, you can still end this with some dignity and your manhood intact. You gotta be cold dude, because the only way she'll be satisfied with leaving you is if she sees you suffer, that's how women are. Just tell her you need a fresh start, we had a good run but its done, don't bring up any drama or anything. And like I said when she starts crying you gotta be a cold pimp, kiss her on the forehead and give the bitch her walking papers. Chalk it up as a learning experience

[Grizwald1400]

(10-18-2017 01:56 PM)arsenal2000 Wrote:  

I had been going out with a girl for several months. One day we argue over some issue ,she gets angry and leaves me. Does not answer my phone and goes no contact . Returns back to me after a few days and acts the same. One of my friends tell me that they have seen one of her EX posts in face book saying they are in a relationship . she had not accepted the relationship request. I confront her over it . She cry's a lot tells me the story that she called him to find out why she has problems in her relationships etc . She never meet him and he is just crazy . She even shows a gynecological exam report to prove that she could not have had sex in that time period. I did not believe it . I break off immediately and tell her that our relationship was over the moment she had called to talk to an ex who is still in to her. I was not going to put up with this kind of disrespect and I had no need to be with her. She does a lot of crazy things to get back together which is for another post but like other posters suggested I went no contact. Few months later the day after valentines I see her ex (current BF)post all the things he has done and given for valentines day.

Like the other posters are mentioning you will save yourself a lot of trouble by moving on now rather than being with someone that is not giving the respect you deserve.

Man this bitch got you wound up like a toy soldier, what you need to do is get off of social media, that shit is causing you too much stress. The problem is you didn't make her earn a relationship, you started screwing around with someone, caught feelings and decided it was a good idea to be her "boyfriend" this girl clearly doesn't revere you and that's the problem, she should be stalking you everyday, worrying who you're with not the other way around

[mcw78912]

(10-18-2017 07:07 AM)Kanasukia Wrote:  

...When we met (about 3.5 years ago), she had a boyfriend but we would still hang out and she would come over all the time. We still debate who made the “first move” but I ended up eating her out the same weekend her boyfriend broke up with her. She always would say “I never do this” and I believe her...

...She had been trying to break up with him for at least a month, not necessarily to get with me, but because of the way he treated her...

Looks like she's repeating the same pattern, only now you're the boyfriend. Be careful and don't get played.

[Dalaran1991]

Jetset called it. OP wont listen, just like any other newbies posting threads about "is she cheating/should I forgive her" wont listen. All his replies, while nice and polite (which I appreciate) are still him trying to play defense attorney for his cheating girlfriend.

What is interesting to take away is the whole "she's my first love / girlfriend" as the BIG main reason he won't cut he off. This again just proves that men are much more romantic and irrational than women.

While he's playing beta bux monkey branch for his girl after she has been dumped (because that what it was), she's playing the most rational, well-thought out plan to secure commitment and security while he's servicing her with his tongue (is that beta )

Damn it WIA has a legendary post about exactly this situation but I can't find the original post. Here's what I remember.

Quote:

She gave him (the ex) everything she had. She gave him her young, juicy pussy, and still it wasn't enough to keep him around. She was not good enough.

That's the girl that you just decided to LTR up. A girl not good enough to be another man cumdumpster.

So many problems in game could be eliminated simply by not getting in a LTR with the wrong girl. Now that he has been in a dead-on-arrival LTR for 2 years, she had fucked his mind enough that he doesn't even think about breaking up when he has all the evidence in front of him. Because MUH LOVE. He is at the point where he has invested in the LTR much more than her, because it's very clear that neither her mind nor her body is there anymore.

If that sounds mean, good, I intended it to be (quoting WIA again)

OP should stay in this LTR, drag this out for as long as possible until it all blow up in his face. Then maybe he will learn and he will come back a seasoned player with a seething desire to slay pussy.

[bgbusiness]

(10-18-2017 05:54 PM)Sam Malone Wrote:  

(10-18-2017 03:27 PM)Kanasukia Wrote:  

I understand that everyone is basically saying the same thing so that definitely holds weight with me even though I’m new and don’t really know any of you lol. But thanks again everyone. Like I said I’ll keep it updated

Bold for emphasis.

Correct, OP, you don't know any of us. We have nothing invested, no dog in this fight. None of us are in a position to swoop in on this chick (versus some white knight local to you that wants to see you drop this chick so he can swoop in for the bang).

Which is why the opinions here should hold more water.

We can only speak from our own experiences...

I was married for over ten years. At (what I figure) the ten year mark, my now ex started getting distant. We didn't have sex as much as we used to, she was distant, always tired...

She was doing some extra-curricular activity (let's call it knitting class) one night a week. It was legit at first, I actually dropped her off to her female friends a few times (with the kids in tow). After a while, it just became easier for her to drive while I stayed home with the kids that night.

After knitting class, she'd go out and hang with the girls for a couple of drinks. A few times she'd come home much later than usual. When I'd press her about it, she would tell me that she'd had a little too much, and didn't want to get pulled over for a DWI, so she'd hang out at the home of one of her knitting class friends until she was sober enough to drive.

She'd also been spending more time on her phone texting. Previously, she'd show me some dumb or funny thing that one of her friends would text, but she was more guarded with her phone the last couple of months. To the point where she'd angle her phone just enough so I couldn't see the screen, but not enough to look like she was trying to hide it.

But, this was my wife. The woman who was vicious when it came to women even attempting to flirt with me. The same woman who found it deplorable when we found out that friends of ours were getting divorced because that wife was cheating on her husband.

There's no way she'd do something nefarious. No way. Nope. Not my wife.

Come to find out (from a phone call from the knitting place) that the knitting class was over about three weeks after the last time I took her to it. They were calling to ask if she wanted to re-up for the advanced course.

She failed to tell me about the knitting class ending. I hadn't let on that I knew, because it had been about four months since the last class.

The next night of knitting class, I offered to drop her off, whipping up some excuse about a kid-related thing about a mile from the knitting class.

"Thanks, that'd be great, but a bunch of us are going to _____ bar for _____'s birthday after class, so we'll be out kinda late. I can't see coming out to get me that late, I'll just drive."

After. Class.

Ok, now I knew she was full of shit, but I didn't know how high the shit was.

She came home about 1:00 in the morning, after hanging out at a woman's house (who supposedly lived three streets from the knitting class), and was texting her friend 'to make sure she got home ok'. But she slipped up. While I couldn't see her messages, I could see her punch in her 4 digit passcode.

Bingo.

So she passed out, and a few minutes later I grabbed her phone and went into the bathroom. After gleaning through a few messages, I found "Mary", and a lot of back and forth texting. Nothing sexual or really alarming, some chatter about dinner or the loud woman at the bar. The food was good, they both had a great time, "we should do that again soon" kind of stuff. A few messages looked out of place (like a response had been deleted), but no 'smoking gun'. I didn't think anything of it at the time, so I put her phone back and went back to sleep.

Nope. Not my wife. I bet she's taking a gourmet cooking class, and she's gonna surprise me with some crazy cuisine when she's done with that. Yeah, my wife is a good girl.

Quick sidenote before I go on: My ex's car had a few distinguishable features. A dashboard trinket, a couple of things in the back window, and a couple of bumper stickers that were unusual enough.

A couple of days after I inspected her phone, my father calls me. He asks if everything's ok with my ex's car. I ask why he asked that, and he tells me that another (nosy) relative saw the ex's car (recognized by the bumper stickers and interior stuff) at an apartment complex the other night.

The apartment complex is about three miles from my house... the knitting class is twenty miles away, in the opposite direction.

So I call the nosy relative, and she tells me about where the car was. She was sure it was my ex's car, she recognized the bumper stickers, but the dashboard ornament was a dead giveaway. I cool the relative down and whip up a somewhat plausible excuse. I tell her that my ex was there to pick up her brother's girlfriend because they got into a fight, and it's rough on my ex, so please don't mention anything to my ex if you should see her.

Now my brain biscuits are turning... why the hell is my wife telling me she's in one place, when she's at somewhere completely different ??

Nah, must be the relative was confused. It's a common car, and hell, those dashboard trinkets and bumper stickers are available everywhere.

Can't possibly have been my wife's car. Nope. That relative's always been a little off anyway, probably thinks she saw it.

Ya know what ? Just to give myself peace of mind, I'm gonna look at the numbers on our joint account phone bill.

I can't find the statement, so I go to the phone carrier's retail store and tell them I lost my copy. The kid prints out the statement with all the numbers, and I look at the night that my ex got home late and was texting to make sure Mary got home ok. And I see Mary's number. No texts while they were (supposed to be) at knitting class. There wouldn't be, right ? They're in class, why would the girls be texting each other in class ?

I'm leaving the phone store, and walking by the food court in the mall, and I spot a bank of payphones. So I head over, drop a quarter in, and dial Mary's number. And it rings five times before going to voicemail.

"You've reached John Smith. I can't come to the phone right now, so leave your name and number, and I'll get back to you."

I hang up, and figure I must have dialed the number wrong. So I drop another quarter and dial again... five rings later...

"You've reached John Smith. I can't come to the phone right now, so leave your name and number, and I'll get back to you."

Well, that's weird. Hmph. Maybe John is Mary's brother. Or her husband. Yeah. And they're on the same plan. Yeah, yeah, that must be it.

But wait... Mary supposedly lives twenty miles away... and my wife's car was spotted at the apartment complex only three miles from my house.

Heck, I gotta go that way anyway, I'm gonna cruise by the apartment complex and check out the building that my relative thinks she saw my wife's car at.

Everything looks ok... nice place... I'm gonna check out the mailboxes and see who lives here...

Oh, look at that... apartment #8... John Smith.

Then it all hit me. The realization. And it hit me hard.

From that point on, every move I made was in the shadows. I knew the ex was getting dicked on the side, but I didn't speak of it. Instead, I ran silent and deep, making all of my legal moves under the guise that (as far as the ex was concerned) I had absolutely no idea what was going on.

When the divorce process finally got underway (with my having her served with no warning), it was hell on Earth. Lots of tension in the house until she moved out a couple of months later (which was a huge move in my favor).

I survived the divorce. I kept the house, I'm primary, and the ex pays me support.

I've posted about my divorce success here before, but I'm drifting away from the crux of my post.

There were a shit ton of signs that pointed me to my ex's infidelity. Tons.

I didn't want to believe it. I didn't think it was possible.

I even got to the point where I was trying to convince myself that it wasn't remotely possible.

For the longest time, I wasn't even listening to my own self telling me the truth.

Your gut is there for a reason. Your gut tells you what direction to go when your heart and brain are in the way.

OP, you made this thread for a reason.

So listen to your gut.

Hey, really enjoyed your story and at the same time, sorry to hear that.
I think a lot of members on this forum would really appreciate any stories of yours that are red pill like this one.

Again, thank you for the story.

[bgbusiness]

Dear OP,
Although I have enjoyed your posts and I truly empathize where you are coming from, I think you know the answer deep down.

One of the quotes that float around the red pill community is, "She is not yours, it's just your turn."
Around 2 years mark is when a girl start to really lose interest in a guy. This is scientifically proven and your story is very congruent to this idea.
It is understandable if she wants to have less sex because she is busy because I am also in school and I sometimes skip sex on my fuckbuddies because I am busy with school and just tired and want to catch up on sleep.

HOWEVER, the fact that she lied straight to your face is just a twinkle bit of the bigger lies and bigger problems.
It's like you are only seeing the tip of the ice berg.
The tip = small lies to your face.
As you go down this road, you will realize that you are wasting your time and her time.

It's like the cockroach theory in finance where if you see one cockroach next to the carpet, if you remove the carpet, you see 1,000+ cockroaches!

She has ALREADY disrespected you by lying to your face. If you let it slide, she will continue to do that and your self-esteem will dip as you KNOW DEEP down inside that you are a doormat. The longer you take to dump her, the lower your value becomes in her eyes and your eyes.

Personally, it almost seems like the girl is doing all these behaviors TO WANT YOU to break up with her, so she doesn't have to do it.

IDK what your lay count is, but if it's below 10, you definitely need to fuck more.
Even Roosh and Rollo Tomassi says that fucking 20 chicks is crucial for LTR.

[bgbusiness]

(10-18-2017 05:54 PM)Sam Malone Wrote:  

There were a shit ton of signs that pointed me to my ex's infidelity. Tons.

Could you give us some of the signs that you have missed? if you have any chance...
Appreciate the story again, thanks a lot...

[Dalaran1991]

(10-18-2017 05:54 PM)Sam Malone Wrote:  

I survived the divorce. I kept the house, I'm primary, and the ex pays me support.

Hat off to you sir. Really congratulate you for taking action to protect yourself and get justice, instead of saying "but it's MUH wife, mother of MUH kids" like most blinded betas out there.

Really your calmness in handling the situation was admirable, liken to a cold, vicious rage where lesser people would freak out, bring it to their wife and lose everything in the court.

[PapayaTapper]

(10-18-2017 05:54 PM)Sam Malone Wrote:  

When the divorce process finally got underway (with my having her served with no warning),

and

[Noir]

@OP

Pull your head out of our ass and listen.

Most importantly, learn from this and re-evaluate the standards you have for your relationships.

That shit went on for 2.5 years. 14600 hours of waking life that you missed out on the signals (more if you count the year of you pussyfooting around waiting for her other relationship to complete).

2.5 years that you have had such a person influence your life and unfortunately, shape you to a certain extent. Guess what, this is how people get trust issues.

Take a break, learn from it. Speak to a therapist if you don't have blue pill mates (key point: just to get it off your chest).

You can fuck and you can set shit alight but devoting your time and emotions to a person makes you vulnerable. Don't let that shit bring you down.

Seriously, re-evaluate your standards.