[GlobalMan]

(08-08-2017 10:05 PM)Australia Sucks Wrote:  

In Australia I am just working on increasing my net worth and if all goes according to plan sometime in the next 5 years I can get the fuck out of Australia and semi-retire to a cheap country/countries living mostly from my passive/investment income. I will be in my early thirties and still young enough to really enjoy life.

And all of that would be completely impossible for an average Colombian.

[MongolianAbroad]

(08-08-2017 11:01 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

OP, if you think that you need poverty to be happy, or less choices/opportunities/potential distractions... maybe you just need to work on your mental strength?

My girlfriend sometimes makes statements like this. I call this the "authenticity fallacy". In our zeitgeist, we deem poor or low class or zero material possessions to be "authentic", and everything else is inauthentic (including, presumably, language and fitness and any kind of private property at all).

You will hear very dumb people saying very dumb things like "the people in Africa are so happy".

The better question, already stated here, is "why are Westerners so ungrateful?".

It's not poverty that makes them happier than Americans.

Average folks in some of these countries have stronger social bonds, on average, across all social classes, rich folks as well as poor folks.

We're social animals.

Your average American's way of life is not healthy. Many Americans don't even know their neighbors and spend hours every day online getting triggered or watching movies/tv instead of socializing...it's not healthy long term, and results in strain on the human animal.

Eventually you get the high divorce rates, the high use of antidepressants and recreational drugs, the workaholism, the over-eating, etc., all ways to lash out at, or cope with, a very mentally and physically unhealthy environment, on average.

It's like a parrot that tears its feathers out from various forms of stress. You see a lot less of these things in some countries.

[GlobalMan]

Spaniard88 Wrote:

You see a lot less of these things in some countries.

You want a list of things you DO see in many countries that you don't in first world ones? It will be a hell of a lot more severe than "too much TV"

[TooFineAPoint]

(08-08-2017 11:11 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:01 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

OP, if you think that you need poverty to be happy, or less choices/opportunities/potential distractions... maybe you just need to work on your mental strength?

My girlfriend sometimes makes statements like this. I call this the "authenticity fallacy". In our zeitgeist, we deem poor or low class or zero material possessions to be "authentic", and everything else is inauthentic (including, presumably, language and fitness and any kind of private property at all).

You will hear very dumb people saying very dumb things like "the people in Africa are so happy".

The better question, already stated here, is "why are Westerners so ungrateful?".

It's not poverty that makes them happier than Americans.

Average folks in some of these countries have stronger social bonds, on average, across all social classes, rich folks as well as poor folks.

We're social animals.

Your average American's way of life is not healthy. Many Americans don't even know their neighbors and spend hours every day online getting triggered or watching movies/tv instead of socializing...it's not healthy long term, and results in strain on the human animal.

Eventually you get the high divorce rates, the high use of antidepressants and recreational drugs, the workaholism, the over-eating, etc., all ways to lash out at, or cope with, a very mentally and physically unhealthy environment, on average.

It's like a parrot that tears its feathers out from various forms of stress. You see a lot less of these things in some countries.

Why are so many residents of these countries still clamoring to get into the USA and Canada and Australia?

All of the above sounds like a lot of second and third world posturing to not feel so bad that one is not first world.

[Corollary]

(08-08-2017 11:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Why are so many residents of these countries still clamoring to get into the USA and Canada and Australia?

All of the above sounds like a lot of second and third world posturing to not feel so bad that one is not first world.

Why do we have so many men on this forum still clamoring to get away from the USA, Canada, and Australia and into those developing countries?

[wannable alpha]

I am an Indian living in India and I have lived in America for a few years as well. And from what I have seen, it very much depends on the person and not the location that makes a person happy or at least content in life.

An introvert in India or anywhere else is going to be an introvert in the west as well, while a social butterfly will be able to have a good friend circle and dating options no matter where he is living.

The thing I miss about living in a first world country - good infrastructure, efficient bureaucracy and law & order.

As far as work is concerned, there is a rat race everywhere. Let me put it to you this way -

John in medium-city America goes to work in a car and sits in a cubicle all day doing stuff on his computer. He hopes to get a decent raise so that he can move into a bigger house or buy a big TV.

Jai in India goes to work on a motorcycle (because that is what he can afford) and sits in a row of PCs where there is no privacy of any kind and does stuff on his computer. He hopes to get a decent raise so that he can move into a bigger apartment or buy a hatchback car.

As for food, I don't know about other countries, but in India farmers use all sorts of pesticides and the organic stuff is quite expensive as well as being limited in options.

People in the west have no idea how comfortable their life is since they are not doing an apples to apples comparison. I can write a lot more on this if the OP or anyone else is interested.

[GlobalMan]

There is nothing wrong with stating that countries of various levels of development have their positives and can be thoroughly enjoyed, and that many people or perhaps even most people can be happy there.

However that is completely different than trying to say that the average man in Peru has, or has the potential to have, a better life than a man born in Australia or the USA or Canada or the UK excetera.

The fact is most people make the best of whatever they have wherever they are. A photo of a smiling Indian in Mumbai, or a smiling Thai fisherman, does not tell you much- besides the durability of the human spirit in the face of hardship.

The OP of this thread has levels of opportunity which are completely shut off to 90% of the world, things that men in less developed countries could only dream of, and he is wondering if the average man in Colombia has it better. It's just ridiculous on its face.

[Australia Sucks]

Spaniard88 has clarified the point I was trying to make. I was simply asking if average/"middle class" people in poor countries were just as happy or better off than average/"middle class" people in western countries despite their poverty. I was making the argument that the poverty is a negative but they have offsetting positives. It was a question to ponder not a statement. I am just asking it as I think its food for thought. I am not saying that I am sure they are better off.

Suits your post in this thread misses the whole argument. Nobody is saying that people in poor countries have good income levels. Obviously they have low incomes. I am trying to say despite low income the environment they are in does offer some positives which may offset the negatives of having low income and living in a dysfunctional country.

[MongolianAbroad]

(08-08-2017 11:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:11 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:01 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

OP, if you think that you need poverty to be happy, or less choices/opportunities/potential distractions... maybe you just need to work on your mental strength?

My girlfriend sometimes makes statements like this. I call this the "authenticity fallacy". In our zeitgeist, we deem poor or low class or zero material possessions to be "authentic", and everything else is inauthentic (including, presumably, language and fitness and any kind of private property at all).

You will hear very dumb people saying very dumb things like "the people in Africa are so happy".

The better question, already stated here, is "why are Westerners so ungrateful?".

It's not poverty that makes them happier than Americans.

Average folks in some of these countries have stronger social bonds, on average, across all social classes, rich folks as well as poor folks.

We're social animals.

Your average American's way of life is not healthy. Many Americans don't even know their neighbors and spend hours every day online getting triggered or watching movies/tv instead of socializing...it's not healthy long term, and results in strain on the human animal.

Eventually you get the high divorce rates, the high use of antidepressants and recreational drugs, the workaholism, the over-eating, etc., all ways to lash out at, or cope with, a very mentally and physically unhealthy environment, on average.

It's like a parrot that tears its feathers out from various forms of stress. You see a lot less of these things in some countries.

Why are so many residents of these countries still clamoring to get into the USA and Canada and Australia?

All of the above sounds like a lot of second and third world posturing to not feel so bad that one is not first world.

Because those countries have a lot of destitute people.

Being any class in America is better than being at the bottom in a poor country. If you can't eat or clothe yourself, you've got problems.

However, for the middle class, the lawyers, doctors, engineers, business owners, etc. those with established careers, they aren't clamoring at the gates of America. They usually spend 3 or 4 nights of every week socializing with extended family at weddings and all kinds of social gatherings.

I know plenty of folks that live in those countries, have the opportunity to come, and don't.

Because their quality of life is better over there.

It's just not that black and white.

[nomadbrah]

I think one of the mantras to come into the West as that absence from suffering is the same as happiness.

I would say it like this. In the developing world, the lows are lower and the highs are higher, but if you want to say who got it better, then you need to qualify it with what you think is a good life. And that's not an easy answer. It isn't romantic to die from untreated river sickness at 30 years old. On the other hand, neither is being a miserable drone who dies in an old folks home abandoned by everyone.

I lean towards thinking that Westerners have a too romantic view of their own situation.

[doc holliday]

Materially, yes I think the west is a much better place to be. You can make far more money and your day to day existence is easier than in Latin America or Asia for the average person. If you work your ass off and avoid making life changing mistakes, you can do very well for your self. However, Spaniard is right in that socially, those places are much better which I think explains the reason why people in many third world countries seem happier. Lets face it, we know that family life in America is broken, the women here are a complete mess and its become very difficult for so many men to have close ties and friendships with other men. It's a big reason that so many forum members go to foreign countries, to escape the social pathologies of the west. If material abundance was what brought happiness then America would be the happiest place on earth but clearly it isn't and there are some serious problems with its people, both men and women.

Ultimately though, I think that one has to shed the mentality that the grass is greener in another place and instead have gratitude for what one has and more importantly, what one can achieve. People in the west can choose to be happy like the Colombian laborer, they can choose to take advantage of all that living in the west affords and one can still build deep bonds with people here. And of course one can travel to these other places to take advantage of things that you cannot find in the west like more feminine women or a more traditional ancient culture. It may not be easy to build this life but life isn't easy and nothing worth having is easy to get. Anywhere.

[GlobalMan]

(08-08-2017 11:27 PM)Corollary Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Why are so many residents of these countries still clamoring to get into the USA and Canada and Australia?

All of the above sounds like a lot of second and third world posturing to not feel so bad that one is not first world.

Why do we have so many men on this forum still clamoring to get away from the USA, Canada, and Australia and into those developing countries?

Because they have an "Anglo hellhole" based income stream, or employment opportunities that are not available to locals, and which allow them to live a lifestyle multiple times better than what is possible for a native. So, they get the financial benefits of the anglo hellhole with the benefit of some nice foreign bitches.

Those scenarios have nothing to do with what the OP is asserting.

Suits would not be in China if he worked at the local lead tainted toy factory with the rest of the average Chinese men

[MongolianAbroad]

(08-08-2017 11:46 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Ultimately though, I think that one has to shed the mentality that the grass is greener in another place and instead have gratitude for what one has and more importantly, what one can achieve.

Agreed.

Gratitude is the way I stay sane. I'm so grateful for every day and for having the family I have and the opportunities I have.

The other route, ingratitude, leads to an unhealthy bitterness or anger, and that's no bueno.

You've got to have a clear mind-space in order to focus on self improvement and new business ideas that will give fruit, and gratitude is a good foundation for that.

(08-08-2017 11:46 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

And of course one can travel to these other places to take advantage of things that you cannot find in the west like more feminine women or a more traditional ancient culture. It may not be easy to build this life but life isn't easy and nothing worth having is easy to get. Anywhere.

Agreed 100%.

Take the best of both worlds and make them your own.

[TooFineAPoint]

(08-08-2017 11:27 PM)Corollary Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Why are so many residents of these countries still clamoring to get into the USA and Canada and Australia?

All of the above sounds like a lot of second and third world posturing to not feel so bad that one is not first world.

Why do we have so many men on this forum still clamoring to get away from the USA, Canada, and Australia and into those developing countries?

Because it's easier to bang chicks when they perceive you as coming from a land that is paradise compared to theirs.

Note also that these men don't wish to leave behind their western earnings.

[Travesty]

I look forward to OP's future.

He sits at a table in a developing nation with a local beauty younger than him. The waiter delivers the check. OP says with a wink and a nod as he drops a 40% tip - "you don't know how much better you have it than guys where I'm from". Then he walks out with the local beauty. The guy is figuring out how to ration the tip between helping his parents and his sister that has three children. His sister is 22. He is 20.

[MongolianAbroad]

(08-08-2017 11:50 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:27 PM)Corollary Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Why are so many residents of these countries still clamoring to get into the USA and Canada and Australia?

All of the above sounds like a lot of second and third world posturing to not feel so bad that one is not first world.

Why do we have so many men on this forum still clamoring to get away from the USA, Canada, and Australia and into those developing countries?

Because they have an "Anglo hellhole" based income stream, or employment opportunities that are not available to locals, and which allow them to live a lifestyle multiple times better than what is possible for a native. So, they get the financial benefits of the anglo hellhole with the benefit of some nice foreign bitches.

Those scenarios have nothing to do with what the OP is asserting.

Suits would not be in China if he worked at the local lead tainted toy factory with the rest of the average Chinese men

But Suits isn't average or a laborer, he's a businessman.

And businessmen can do well anywhere in the world.

Being born in China, Mexico, or the Philippines is not a sentence of a life as a laborer in poverty. Is it more likely he'd have been born in poverty? Yes. Is there still a good chance he'd be born in another social class, or poor, and still end up a successful guy with a good looking wife that respects him, healthy children, and a full life? Yes.

[MongolianAbroad]

(08-08-2017 11:53 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

I look forward to OP's future.

He sits at a table in a developing nation with a local beauty younger than him. The waiter delivers the check. OP says with a wink and a nod as he drops a 40% tip - "you don't know how much better you have it than guys where I'm from". Then he walks out with the local beauty. The guy is figuring out how to ration the tip between helping his parents and his sister that has three children. His sister is 22. He is 20.

You're being dramatic, Travesty.

That's not what Australia's saying at all.

Some of you guys are behaving like the SJW's that read that Google memo and completely misconstrued it.

Step back and take a look at what Australia was really getting at.

[Travesty]

^ Unless you were that 20 year old waiter, you don't know what it's like.

[Corollary]

(08-08-2017 11:50 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

Because they have an "Anglo hellhole" based income stream, or employment opportunities that are not available to locals, and which allow them to live a lifestyle multiple times better than what is possible for a native. So, they get the financial benefits of the anglo hellhole with the benefit of some nice foreign bitches.

Those scenarios have nothing to do with what the OP is asserting.

Suits would not be in China if he worked at the local lead tainted toy factory with the rest of the average Chinese men

I think the OP was trying to compare average Westerner to the average guy in a developing country. And even though I've never been to a developing country, something tells me that the average person there doesn't have to work in a life-threatening job.

But my question was just to illustrate that it isn't all about what you can buy with money. There are broader cultural factors that can make a difference in how the average life is lived.

(08-08-2017 11:52 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Because it's easier to bang chicks when they perceive you as coming from a land that is paradise compared to theirs.

Note also that these men don't wish to leave behind their western earnings.

I don't want to say much on this because I get no pussy, but from what I read from guys posting here and elsewhere, it's not only about getting easy notches. A lot of guys comment on the differences in women that can be attributed to their culture.

[MongolianAbroad]

(08-09-2017 12:05 AM)Travesty Wrote:  

^ Unless you were that 20 year old waiter, you don't know what it's like.

No one's saying America isn't life on easy mode, especially in regards to making money, it is, I think we can all agree on that.

I'm just saying there's quite some substance to Australia's thoughts on the matter. It's just not as black and white as many make it out to be.

[GlobalMan]

Suits is certainly an exceptional dude with a lot of ambition, but what he has done is certainly within the reach of almost any Canadian if they put the effort in. This is absolutely not the case for most men born in developing countries.

(08-08-2017 11:57 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

Being born in China, Mexico, or the Philippines is not a sentence of a life as a laborer in poverty. Is it more likely he'd have been born in poverty? Yes.

The entire premise of the thread is that the average person in somewhere like Colombia has it better off than the average man in the USA for example. As you just said there is a much higher likelihood that a man born in one of those places will likely live in poverty. That is the point.

Quote:

Is there still a good chance he'd be born in another social class, or poor, and still end up a successful guy with a good looking wife that respects him, healthy children, and a full life? Yes.

And exactly the same could be said of being born in Australia or Canada or the USA, except that there will be far far greater possibilities available to the man born into poverty in these Anglo countries.

[Suits]

(08-08-2017 11:57 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:50 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:27 PM)Corollary Wrote:  

(08-08-2017 11:24 PM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  

Why are so many residents of these countries still clamoring to get into the USA and Canada and Australia?

All of the above sounds like a lot of second and third world posturing to not feel so bad that one is not first world.

Why do we have so many men on this forum still clamoring to get away from the USA, Canada, and Australia and into those developing countries?

Because they have an "Anglo hellhole" based income stream, or employment opportunities that are not available to locals, and which allow them to live a lifestyle multiple times better than what is possible for a native. So, they get the financial benefits of the anglo hellhole with the benefit of some nice foreign bitches.

Those scenarios have nothing to do with what the OP is asserting.

Suits would not be in China if he worked at the local lead tainted toy factory with the rest of the average Chinese men

But Suits isn't average or a laborer, he's a businessman.

And businessmen can do well anywhere in the world.

If I'd been born into the world as a Chinese person (with the same genetics, otherwise), I never would have become a businessman. I doubt I would have gotten into university and I doubt I could have earned the money to do anything substantial without at least the income of a university graduate.

Any success that I've had has come from my ability to leverage my status as a white Canadian to earn enough money working part time to focus on business pursuits in the remaining time and to have the money to develop those pursuits.

I know a lot of Chinese people a lot smarter and hard-working that I am that don't have the opportunities that I do just because of where I was born.

[GlobalMan]

(08-09-2017 12:10 AM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

It's just not as black and white as many make it out to be.

Having lived and traveled all over the world the past 15 years, it is pretty damn black and white to me that having been born in the USA (insert other first world country) puts me at an advantage that most men can never dream of and allows me to determine my own life to an extent they never will be able to.

[Fortis]

No.

The fact that you can fly into these places and whine about the place that gave you so much money that you can afford to not work and fly around is evidence that, despite the whining, you're probably happier than they are on the whole.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Word to the wise, AS.

When you use terms like "anglosphere drones" my mind's eye immediately assembles an image of you that looks like this:



Using terms like that leaves the reader with an unerring assumption that you have an incredibly high opinion of yourself even though based on what you've written on the forum so far it's difficult to escape the sense that you're frankly little different from all these "drones" you speak of, who you somehow assume lead lesser lives than you.

You really have a penchant for negativity, and honestly just seeing your user name makes me roll my eyes. You should get a gold membership, change your handle and try to look on the bright side of life a bit more often. Try opening a thread titled "10 reasons I'm super lucky to live in a safe and secure nation where I can make bank before travelling and banging exotic snatch."

As for the OP, honestly, who gives a fuck about whether "boring" people in the anglosphere are better off than "real men" in the developing world? More advice. If you're going to post threads that amount to irrelevant navel-gazing then, again,
try to make them positive. This thread would be positive it if were posted on a middle-class Columbian forum. Here it translates to "Check me out, looking down on my fellow countrymen and pontificating about what a bunch of feckless simps they are! Australiasucks, keepin' it real, yo!"

You're not an idiot. But you are a real lead balloon sometimes. Start looking for silver linings for fucks sake, or at least keep your negativity to appropriate threads.