[General Stalin]

This may be a "Deep Forum" topic but it has all to do with women and romance so I figured this is a good place for it.

I have been seeing a girl for a minute now and she recently asked me if I loved her. It caught me off guard and I thought "Hmmm. I don't know"

I told her verbatim "No I don't think so." Truthfully I don't know what significance the word has to me anymore. When I was younger I had a pretty solid idea of what the word meant to me, and as I got older and I had been with other women my definition of it evolved, but I just don't know. I don't know how seriously or not seriously I take the word - but I know a lot of females regard as a signifier that things are very serious and going for the long term.

I know many people are going to think "Well I love my best friends, and I love my family, and I love my women differently" so for the sake of argument I'm talking specifically about romantic love between and man and a woman.

What are your thoughts?

[Rhyme or Reason]

It means "too scared / too old to take my chances out there"

[polar]

[polar]

Love is when you feel cozy and warm inside. The same way a nut sack is gently caressed by the supportive features of a USA flag speedo.

[polar]

A serious post:

This is a loaded question by any means. No shortage of philosophers to quote and the such.

My personal take, having considered it for a bit, is the willingness to consider someone else's interests as seriously as your own.

Expectations have changed over the years and centuries. Romantic love was once a luxury and the tomfoolery of the young, it has now become the glorified ideal of today's popular culture.

One thing that's consistent is that with extra "experience" it becomes harder to pair bond, the feelings don't come as strong, the highs aren't as high or long lasting. (cue discussion of notch counts and marriage)

A broader interpretation of love: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love

[kaotic]

I just really enjoy her company and she makes me happy and compliments my life.

I don't take the world lightly, use it sparingly, and have only told 3 women in my life those 3 words.

1. First girl I was serious with, took her V, she almost died, and things were fucked up in her head after that.
2. Pussy on the pedestal first hot girl I locked down, basic bitch attention whore.
3. The hot latina I was with - the closest women I was ever with, I had to dump her and let her move on.

That last one was at the end of 2015 - I haven't gotten close to it yet but I've really enjoyed the company of a few but it never worked out.

I know we'll get some paper tiger "alphas" that say "oh bro fuck that, real alpha dark triads never say that shit"

But we all have emotions - fortunately most of here have the ability to think logically and control our emotions.

Eventually the "love" and honeymoon phase can go away and it comes down to how suitable a woman is to you and how they compliment their life.

Love is like an aphrodisiac style emotion, it can flood your brain, hence clouded judgement and thinking.

How we use it and control it is extremely important.

To me it can be physically shown without saying it - slaps on the ass, kissing their forehead, calling them hilarious nicknames like "fuck face" or whatever.


We'll get different answers on here due to experiences or not having experiencing it.

After being with so many lizards the meaning has changed, maybe it's spoiled the word "love for me" and AWALT - I may never find something like that again.

I'm not going to sit here and spew shit like maybe someday I will, or there's somewhere out there for me, or my other half, or my soulmate.

[crdr]

Love to me is a woman who can care about me as much as I care about myself. I'm constantly disappointed.
Point being I don't think you can truly care about a woman until you care about yourself.
This is probably why guys mess up their lives so badly mistaking love for validation, approval and acceptance.
You must validate yourself first. Then the loving can begin...

[Travel Museums]

Love is when your girl pays for her own shit.

[Investment Bro]

Oddly enough, a video game character (Pagan Min from Far Cry 4) said it best for me. I remember hearing this phrase, and I paused for a second. This was right after I had broken up with my first serious girlfriend of 3 years, the only person to that point I had told that I had loved.

I remember when we were together, I often wanted to be alone, but after the breakup I found these unfamiliar feelings of want, and felt a noticeable missing kinship. I don't think I really loved her during the relationship at all. I treated her well sometimes, like shit other times.

I only loved her in hindsight. It was the strangest thing to realize. It made it hurt a little more too. Good thing I found the manosphere right around this time, otherwise I probably would have done some regrettable things.

[MikeS]

I'm not entirely sure but based on my most recent LTR I would say it's when I care enough about the girl to think about her and occasionally miss her when I'm not with her. Which has only happened in a few of my relationships.
In more abstract terms I like the way Rollo (of The Rational Male) has put it - men love idealistically, women love opportunistically. There have certainly been elements of the idealistic the few times I have loved - naively when I was younger, with more clarity and much less obsession most recently.

[SamuelBRoberts]

(08-02-2017 04:58 PM)polar Wrote:  

Damn it you got to it ahead of me.

[AneroidOcean]

(08-02-2017 06:13 PM)Travel Museums Wrote:  

Love is when your girl pays for her own shit.

[GreenHills]

(08-02-2017 04:28 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I don't know how seriously or not seriously I take the word - but I know a lot of females regard as a signifier that things are very serious and going for the long term.

Exactly. If you want to be committed with this girl, say the words. For me they mean commitment. If you have some deep feeling bubbling inside, say them too, why not - it feels nice.

But instead of wondering if you love her, why not wonder about questions that have easier answers. Do you have fun with her? Do you have chemistry? Do you enjoy her company? Do you have good sex? Do you have good conversations? Do you like doing similar things? Stuff like that. If the answer to all of these is "yes", yeah, you can say that you love her.

Here's a book that talks about what love is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Loving.

"The Art of Loving argues that the active character of true love involves four basic elements: care, responsibility, respect, and knowledge. Each of these is difficult to define and can differ markedly depending on the people involved and their circumstances. Seen in these terms, love is hard work, but it is also the most rewarding kind of work."

Now this is a different treatment. It says that love is an act. And you know what - that sounds good to me too. I liked that book and I agree with some of the stuff that I read in it.

And you know what the biggest scam and brainwashing around the word "love" is?

"True Love is unconditional"

GTFO! It's the biggest excuse to be a bad relationship partner. Thankfully only one girl has said that to me and I'm not with her anymore.

[Nascimento]

"Love is when you’ve been granted a temporary reprieve from wondering if you can do better." CH

[Vill@in]

In my BP days, I could recite some poem or spew some sappy bullshit and I would believe it.

However, now that I know the true nature of women, I truly believe: Men love Women, Women love Children, Children love puppies. So even IF I did have strong feelings (i.e. love) for a woman, it will never be reciprocated in the same way.

(08-02-2017 09:40 PM)GreenHills Wrote:  

But instead of wondering if you love her, why not wonder about questions that have easier answers. Do you have fun with her? Do you have chemistry? Do you enjoy her company? Do you have good sex? Do you have good conversations? Do you like doing similar things? Stuff like that. If the answer to all of these is "yes", yeah, you can say that you love her.

This would the closest thing to 'romantic love' for me. I'm ok with that. Just slap the love label on it and feed it to the female looking for you to say it back.

[General Stalin]

I think I'm more in-line with the semi-casual definition of love a couple of you have thrown around. I hate ascribing such serious and permanent meaning to such an abstract word/feeling.

I like the idea of love simply meaning I enjoy their company a lot, am happy to spend lots of my time with them, and would miss them greatly if they were gone. I don't think "love" needs to mean she will be my wife and the mother of my children. In the recent past this is what I thought about love - it meant permanence. I don't think it needs to mean that for me to say/feel it.

I also think love is really a form of just giving in. Not in a negative way, but in a vulnerable way. Allowing yourself to be attached enough to a woman where she can emotionally hurt you.

[Spectrumwalker]

Love is when your ready to give your life for someone, or something. In the case of women; until then...it's only lust.

[Slam]

(08-03-2017 11:24 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I also think love is really a form of just giving in. Not in a negative way, but in a vulnerable way. Allowing yourself to be attached enough to a woman where she can emotionally hurt you.

^ I like this.

I think you can love a girl and keep her, or love her and let her go. There seems to be an art to it, sensing the gravity of love, but still remaining centered and non-needy.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

Your understanding of love will depend on your consciousness.

Also there are different definitions of love.

A) Close affectionate love interlaced with sexual relationship desire
B) Close affectionate love towards family, children and friends
C) Detached love for other beings, for strangers even
D) Divine love that permeates all and is experienced by god-seekers

Some folk low in consciousness will assume it's all a chemical process and an illusion, but they are only fooling themselves. At the very least they will have some perception of the first 2 cases of love.

Also - with every act you either pull away or pull towards more love in you.

And the best way to get love is to simply give it - to your closed ones an affectionate kind of love, to those outside of your circle a detached one. Animals/pets break through that barrier easily because as humans we can give animals quickly an affectionate kind of love - something that takes more discrimination with humans.

[RatInTheWoods]

This question has filled a million books, songs, poems and stories since the beginning of time.

My fave take is the immortal Phil Oakey:

When you're in love you know you're in love
No matter what you try to do
You might as well resign yourself
To what you're going through
If you're a hard man or if you're a child
It still might get to you
Don't kid yourself
You've seen it all before
A million mouths have said that too, ooh

I've had my hard times (hard times!) in the past
I've been a husband and a lover too
I've laid alone and cried at night
Over what love made me do

And the loved ones who let me down
And couldn't share my point of view
But this is Phil talking
I want to tell you
What I found to be true

I love your love action
Lust's just a distraction
No talking just looking
Watching your love action

I believe I believe what the old man says
Though I know that there's no Lord above
I believe in me
I believe in you
And you know I believe in love
I believe in truth
Though I lie a lot
I feel the pain from the push and shove
No matter what you put me through
I'll still believe in love, and I say

I love your love action
Lust's just a distraction
No talking just looking
Watching your love action

[Elster]

It sounds like a cop-out explanation but despite being the central theme of roughly 95% of all creative works ever done you can't really know it until you experience it, and even then it is impossible to convey through words and logical semantic structures.

One could also say it's your genes override button to make you chase and impregnate that booty...

[Cobra]

Love for my children and their love for me.

I put their interests above mine and would not hesitate a second to give up all I have including my life for them. In return, all I expect is that they are happy whether I am or not. That is truly how I feel and if that's not love, I don't know what is.

Yet I get more than their happiness. They make me happy and provide me with unconditional love. I could be an asshole to them on some days and they still come and crawl up next to me. I know things may change as they are very young now but it is one of the things I truly live for. Without them, I would not have responded to this thread.

[Noir]

(08-02-2017 05:17 PM)polar Wrote:  

A broader interpretation of love: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love

As a Greek speaker, the way that those words are used, in Modern Greek essentially translate in to 'to love someone' and 'being in love with someone'.

In love would be a state, bordering with lust. (Erotas, from Eros)

Loving someone would be a feeling, similar to affection. (Agapo, verb from Agapi). You also call people 'agapi mou' (my love).

I use this in my outlook of making a distinction between loving someone and being in love.

The other two examples, Filia (mainly friendship but sometimes, companionship) and Storgi (affection/supporting nature) wouldn't really apply here.

My take on love without going into chemicals/dopamine/endorphins and physiological reactions...

Most 'I love you's' were more of a natural, I love you because I appreciate you. Mother, grandmother, family members. It's an acknowledgment of an investment in yourself, taken for granted as you had no choice and you developed your reaction to that in the form of appreciation and 'love'. It's a natural state of being.

Everyone shows it in different ways.

I have only told one woman I loved her and that was a consequence of being in love. It was a charged 'ILY' but also, it slipped. This was way past learning game, frame control and all the other shit, it came from a meaningful place.

At the same time, it was from a place of fear; fear of losing that person.

I told her I loved her last night, before we went to bed. It was a completely different meaning. This meaning is not really touched upon but universally understood as having 'matured' since the first time.

Now, looking back, it's an umbrella term for appreciation within a subjective context. Depending on this, it could express lust, gratitude, acceptance among other things.

Sometimes, it's a ping sent out, to receive a response that gives you feedback, that the other person is feeling the same way.

Occasionally, it's the acceptance of the status quo and an indirect way of acknowledging that person's effect on your psyche and emotional state.

As GS mentioned, it's also a way of showing vulnerability, letting your partner know that you don't always just want them, sometimes you need them and indeed, that is also an acknowledgement in itself.

For me, love can mean many things. I love certain people unconditionally due to having certain people who have been incapable of expressing love (due to psychological difficulties). It's a different thing to being in love. This is, in Greek, agapi.

To me, being in love (erotas), is being in a state that alters between various 'microstates';

- lust
- appreciation
- passion
- anger
- hope
- excitement
- uncertainty
- infatuation

It's the romantic aspect of it and the current state of mind you buy into, or rather, allow yourself to get swept in.

Sometimes, you can love someone and be in love.

Sometimes, you can love someone without being in love due to the non-romantic nature of the relationship.

Sometimes, you can be in love, but not love them as it's not reciprocal and this could turn out in to bitterness.

A lot of us discovered game because we over-invested and misread the signals being given off by women.

We mistook our state of being 'in love' with 'loving' someone.

This is a difficult concept to fully grasp as we are conditioned to 'love' when it's reciprocal.

There is a reason we want what we cannot have and pedestalize it. This is the lustful part of our characters and this can definitely be misconstrued as any of the above.

There is also a reason we fall in love when we aren't around people anymore.

It's the fear of loss, the acceptance of our appreciation for them (the stimulus of their presence is taken away) and of course, the physiological changes that occur in our body when they are there vs when they are not.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I enjoy discussing these things with women, even more-so pre-bang.

Alas, I am in a relationship now of multiple years, so my opportunities have waned but I do get in a good shot every now and then.

Apart from planting seeds for later on, it's very interesting to actually discuss with females and get their opinion on it.

The yin and yang, so to say.

Not sure if the US posters will agree on that, judging from the reported state of US women currently.

[WilliamDoor]

Love is the only thing in the world that is real. All else is fake.

Take short cuts on any other thing, but do not take short cuts on love.

[Beyond Borders]

Men who are afraid to tell a woman they love them often reveal themselves to be more weak and insecure than a man who can say it but not come from a place of compete dependency.

Love is not some huge life contract - it is a deep sense of caring for another person. You can feel it and express it without handing your ballsack over.

I love both my brothers even though I see their flaws and want to hit them in the face sometimes. I love my mother even though there have been times I've considered cutting off all contact with her. I love a lot of my buddies that I grew up with, and even that form of love comes and goes because there are some homies I've parted ways with on bad terms that I'll probably never speak with again, and others I've had my differences with and come back around to over the years.

Hell, I loved my fucking dog and he shit on my carpet more than a few times when he was pissed off at me.

The mistake is to think you can only love someone if you know you can fully trust them, or if you'll be together forever or if nothing could separate you. No. That's called "unconditional love," and the qualifier "unconditional" in itself suggests that there are different types, or degrees, of love.

There was a time in my life when I absolutely, adamantly refused to say "I love you" to a woman. Thinking back, I've since realized that while I thought it made me seem cold, unreasonable, and mysterious - and yeah, it often made women try harder - it was nothing more than an insecurity I was wearing on my shoulder. Really I was afraid because a) I'd crashed and burned by opening up too much before, and b) I'd seen too much of the deviance women (and anyone really) get up to when the person they love isn't around.

All that meant, however, was that I was giving those words much too much power. Trying to protect myself. Perhaps even in an effort to appear "broken" and draw more attention and sympathy to myself, as young men will often do. And it made me look weak in the long run.

Sure, make a woman earn those words, and keep in mind that saying then repeatedly will have an influence over how you feel about her whether you mean them or not. But there's no reason to pretend you're signing some contract in blood just by saying them - if you respect her, care about her well being, and intend to keep her by your side moving forward, I think it's safe to say you have a certain degree of love for her.

If you feel those things and refuse to say it back, you're only fooling yourself, and if you're fooling her as well you only stand to hurt the relationship. You'd be better off appeasing her a bit if the relationship is at all serious, and keeping the doubt and skepticism any rational man should have as an ace up your sleeve so if things don't work out you won't get burnt too bad in the end.