Quote: (07-24-2017 12:58 PM)Going strong Wrote:
Quote: (07-24-2017 12:20 PM)kosko Wrote:
People are acting that French African immigrants, being holed up in Paris ghettos is something new. My argument is this is nothing new and may not be correlated to the migrant flows, and also that the organised crime groups, that have festered in those suburbs for a long time now. There has been a powder keg of hostility in those suburbs for a long time, decades now, where populations from former French colonies have been holed up in those shitty apartment towers, I have been hearing stories about the zoo Parisian suburbs since I was a kid from my European family.
Nowhere did I discount the migrant flows, which are largely African and Arab young dudes. What I am saying is that THIS case of militarised gang groups is very specific to the nuanced history of Paris suburbs and French posters on here are not doing good in providing this context to forum members who maybe do not have a full grasp of French culture and quirks. There is a huge sub element to those suburbs that you have to take into account. Simply linking it to "migrant crisis" is lazy IMO, there is much more depth to this.
The Parisian "migrants" suburbs you are alluding to, have been upgraded like a decade ago, repainted, provided with sports clubs, green parks, whatever. They should not be a hell hole, people there could live very well indeed.
I don't believe anything of that 'upgrading'.
In Amsterdam there is the Bijlmer. The Bijlmer was devolving into a ghetto.
The thing is, in Paris are 20 'Bijlmers'. The sheer scale of the ghettos (banlieues / cités) makes it impossible to properly 'upgrade' them, as has happened in the Bijlmer.
Lots and lots of these buildings:
Yea, give them a paint job and it'll be better
However: after some Googling I found 'Grigny 2' in Paris, and indeed as you say it looks much better:
However, the thing with comparing the Bijlmer in Amsterdam with the 20 Bijlmers in Paris has not only to do with how the buildings and surroundings look like. The construction of the Bijlmer was also a product of the CIAM and Le Corbusier, it was envisioned as a modern, functional, 'radiant city' for 'the new man.'
But then, Suriname became independent and half of that country moved to the Bijlmer with all problems that you can imagine.
With regards to Paris, the real problem is not so much that the buildings in Paris are in a certain state (of course it can be problematic if a minimum quality is not met), but the fact that there are 20 'Bijlmers' in Paris is which makes it impossible/very hard there to perform the correct micromanaging of the people that has been done in the Amsterdam Bijlmer to prevent it from sliding into a real ghetto.